El 17/04/11 13:32, Per Jessen escribió:

Hans de Faber wrote:

...

Now to my opinion,it is desirable that the opensuse partitioner has an ssd option to align partition and filesystem properly on this this type of devices. Is this a good idea and a reasonable expectation ?

I though we already had that implemented. but I have no personal experience with yast+ssd.

It doesnt align SSD partitions automagically, IMHO it should do something like this http://ldn.linuxfoundation.org/blog-entry/aligning-filesystems-ssd%E2 %80%99s-erase-block-size but it doesnt, in fact I checked out and there is not even a method to detect if the target system has an SSD drive or not, and is not trivial to do so,either. :| -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

El 17/04/11 15:22, Andrew Joakimsen escribió:

BUT for SSD the system should know by the reported rotational speed of the drive, but that has nothing to do with partition alignment.

It is not that easy unfortunately, some ssd drives do not report themselves as non-rotational and/or use fake rotational speed numbers .. Does yours ? Mine does cat /sys/block/sdb/queue/rotational 0 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hello, On Sun, 17 Apr 2011, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:

understands what is going on can make sure it is setup properly. There is no formula to convert from cylinders to sectors!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder-head-sector#CHS_to_LBA_mapping

This issue is also affecting newer/larger hard drives. And these without a doubt have 4kb sectors but everything in opensuse shows 512 bytes!

The _drives_ don't tell their real sector sizes! # /sbin/hdparm -I /dev/sdb [..] Model Number: SAMSUNG HD204UI [..] LBA48 user addressable sectors: 3907029168 Logical Sector size: 512 bytes Physical Sector size: 512 bytes This is what the disk tells via the ATA interface. And yes, that is a disk with 4K physical sectors, which is why I partitioned aligned to 4K. There is just no way for Yast or any other tool to know. One could create a database of 4K-disks reporting 512B sectors though. -dnh -- A funny symbol that I can't read has just been input. Continue, and I'll forget that it ever happened. -- a TeX message -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 4/18/2011 1:28 PM, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 06:18, David Haller wrote:

...

Hello,

On Sun, 17 Apr 2011, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:

...

understands what is going on can make sure it is setup properly. There is no formula to convert from cylinders to sectors!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder-head-sector#CHS_to_LBA_mapping

...

This issue is also affecting newer/larger hard drives. And these without a doubt have 4kb sectors but everything in opensuse shows 512 bytes!

The _drives_ don't tell their real sector sizes!

# /sbin/hdparm -I /dev/sdb [..] Model Number: SAMSUNG HD204UI [..] LBA48 user addressable sectors: 3907029168 Logical Sector size: 512 bytes Physical Sector size: 512 bytes

This is what the disk tells via the ATA interface. And yes, that is a disk with 4K physical sectors, which is why I partitioned aligned to 4K. There is just no way for Yast or any other tool to know. One could create a database of 4K-disks reporting 512B sectors though.

Right that's what I said basically and hence my proposal that Yast shows disks in the relevant unit of "sectors" and not the antiquated useless term of "cylinders." If you know your disk needs to be aligned to X size sectors you can calculate it yourself and set it up with no hassle.

But in the current arragement, since there's no universal formula to convert cylinders to sectors and yast only shows the former, you need to e.g. boot a live CD, create your partitions with some clunky 3rd party tool and then do your installation.

Hyperbole. I routinely perform manual-custom partitioning and mdadm tasks pre-install right in the regular old ordinary opensuse installer, as part of the same session. If you'r at the console just flip over to one of the other text consoles and use fdsik, sfdisk, parted, mdadm all you want and set up anything you want, then resume the install already in progress. In my case I'm also always remote from the machine so I use a serial text console to boot and ssh for the rest of the install. It that case it's just as easy to either do the low level stuff before launching yast, or in a another ssh session after yast has already started. Even without ssh just pure, single tty serial, there are menu options in the initial curses/dialog menus to get a shell before launching yast. It's slightly inconvenient having to do things manually that could be automated or at least made more convenient with menu/form driven front ends, but it's hardly a problem. No booting a separate livecd or even re-starting the same suse installer. Just drop to a shell, do your thing, resume. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 06:18, David Haller wrote:

...

Hello,

On Sun, 17 Apr 2011, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:

...

understands what is going on can make sure it is setup properly. There is no formula to convert from cylinders to sectors!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder-head-sector#CHS_to_LBA_mapping

...

This issue is also affecting newer/larger hard drives. And these without a doubt have 4kb sectors but everything in opensuse shows 512 bytes!

The _drives_ don't tell their real sector sizes!

# /sbin/hdparm -I /dev/sdb [..]        Model Number:       SAMSUNG HD204UI [..]        LBA48  user addressable sectors: 3907029168        Logical  Sector size:                   512 bytes        Physical Sector size:                   512 bytes

This is what the disk tells via the ATA interface. And yes, that is a disk with 4K physical sectors, which is why I partitioned aligned to 4K. There is just no way for Yast or any other tool to know. One could create a database of 4K-disks reporting 512B sectors though.

Right that's what I said basically and hence my proposal that Yast shows disks in the relevant unit of "sectors" and not the antiquated useless term of "cylinders." If you know your disk needs to be aligned to X size sectors you can calculate it yourself and set it up with no hassle.

But in the current arragement, since there's no universal formula to convert cylinders to sectors and yast only shows the former, you need to e.g. boot a live CD, create your partitions with some clunky 3rd party tool and then do your installation.

If you'll post the openFATE link to your proposal, I'll add my vote. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 08:14, Greg Freemyer wrote:

Andrew,

Is there a openfate proposal?  They are easy to create.  Any opensuse user with a login can do it.

Since this is not a bug, just a functionality change proposal, bugzilla is not the right place.

Greg

On 4/18/11, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:

...

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 06:18, David Haller wrote:

...

Hello,

On Sun, 17 Apr 2011, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:

...

understands what is going on can make sure it is setup properly. There is no formula to convert from cylinders to sectors!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder-head-sector#CHS_to_LBA_mapping

...

This issue is also affecting newer/larger hard drives. And these without a doubt have 4kb sectors but everything in opensuse shows 512 bytes!

The _drives_ don't tell their real sector sizes!

# /sbin/hdparm -I /dev/sdb [..]        Model Number:       SAMSUNG HD204UI [..]        LBA48  user addressable sectors: 3907029168        Logical  Sector size:                   512 bytes        Physical Sector size:                   512 bytes

This is what the disk tells via the ATA interface. And yes, that is a disk with 4K physical sectors, which is why I partitioned aligned to 4K. There is just no way for Yast or any other tool to know. One could create a database of 4K-disks reporting 512B sectors though.

Right that's what I said basically and hence my proposal that Yast shows disks in the relevant unit of "sectors" and not the antiquated useless term of "cylinders." If you know your disk needs to be aligned to X size sectors you can calculate it yourself and set it up with no hassle.

But in the current arragement, since there's no universal formula to convert cylinders to sectors and yast only shows the former, you need to e.g. boot a live CD, create your partitions with some clunky 3rd party tool and then do your installation.

If you'll post the openFATE link to your proposal, I'll add my vote.

Greg

The current functionality is a bug and I have long ago reported it as such. Disks are addressed by logical sectors this millenium. It's a bug to show an obsolete, not-convertible unit. serves no purpose unit. The fix to that bug is to show the relevant unit. But if you insist, I submitted this bug as a feature: https://features.opensuse.org/312273 -- Med Vennlig Hilsen, A. Helge Joakimsen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 14:46, Greg Freemyer wrote:

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:

...

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 08:14, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

Andrew,

Is there a openfate proposal?  They are easy to create.  Any opensuse user with a login can do it.

Since this is not a bug, just a functionality change proposal, bugzilla is not the right place.

Greg

On 4/18/11, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:

...

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 06:18, David Haller wrote:

...

Hello,

On Sun, 17 Apr 2011, Andrew Joakimsen wrote: >understands what is going on can make sure it is setup properly. There >is no formula to convert from cylinders to sectors!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder-head-sector#CHS_to_LBA_mapping

>This issue is also affecting newer/larger hard drives. And these >without a doubt have 4kb sectors but everything in opensuse shows 512 >bytes!

The _drives_ don't tell their real sector sizes!

# /sbin/hdparm -I /dev/sdb [..]        Model Number:       SAMSUNG HD204UI [..]        LBA48  user addressable sectors: 3907029168        Logical  Sector size:                   512 bytes        Physical Sector size:                   512 bytes

This is what the disk tells via the ATA interface. And yes, that is a disk with 4K physical sectors, which is why I partitioned aligned to 4K. There is just no way for Yast or any other tool to know. One could create a database of 4K-disks reporting 512B sectors though.

Right that's what I said basically and hence my proposal that Yast shows disks in the relevant unit of "sectors" and not the antiquated useless term of "cylinders." If you know your disk needs to be aligned to X size sectors you can calculate it yourself and set it up with no hassle.

But in the current arragement, since there's no universal formula to convert cylinders to sectors and yast only shows the former, you need to e.g. boot a live CD, create your partitions with some clunky 3rd party tool and then do your installation.

If you'll post the openFATE link to your proposal, I'll add my vote.

Greg

The current functionality is a bug and I have long ago reported it as such. Disks are addressed by logical sectors this millenium. It's a bug to show an obsolete, not-convertible unit. serves no purpose unit. The fix to that bug is to show the relevant unit.

But if you insist, I submitted this bug as a feature: https://features.opensuse.org/312273 -- Med Vennlig Hilsen,

A. Helge Joakimsen

Andrew,

I just changed the title and added a new summary description.

https://features.opensuse.org/312273

Since its your feature request, you might want to ensure I got it right.

Greg

I still believe it's a bug. And knowing now that internally the paritioner was changed to use sectors, it screams bug even louder. I've updated the bug report with the new information you've shared with me: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=671071 -- Med Vennlig Hilsen, A. Helge Joakimsen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hello, On Mon, 18 Apr 2011, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* David Haller [01-01-70 12:34]:

...

The _drives_ don't tell their real sector sizes!

I have a 120gb intel, hdparm -I /dev/sdc:

http://wahoo.no-ip.org/~pat/ssd-parms.txt

Logical Sector size: 512 bytes Physical Sector size: 512 bytes With SSDs, that is definitely wrong, AFAIK most use blocks of 128kB, which have to be "Read-Modified-Write" if say, a 4k Block of a file is modified. See e.g. http://techreport.com/articles.x/15433 Searching for »Intel SSD block size« (or »... blocksize«) yields more results. No software can read the blocksize though, that "blocksize" is "internal" to that SSD (and most current SATA drives with 4K blocks) and they lie to the "outside". A real PITA if you ask me, make it "jumperable" if need be, but there definitely should be a way to ask drives for their real blocksize. -dnh -- Top 100 things you don't want the sysadmin to say: 47. Say, What does "Superblock Error" mean, anyhow? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hello, On Thu, 21 Apr 2011, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:

This is because BIOS is not compatible with anything but 512-byte sectors.

How then can your BIOS boot from a CD/DVD with 2048 Byte sectors? -dnh -- "Now, what was I doing before I so rudely interrupted myself?" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org