Thanks Felix, On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 5:20 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

Ted Byers composed on 2015-05-13 10:21 (UTC-0400):

...

I now have a second Suse box that is refusing to start properly. I used Yast to do an online update (opensuse 13.2), and it gave me a message that one of the updates required a reboot. I thus tried to reboot, but it failed to start properly. Instead I get a fatal error about xgifb. The first ststaement I see is that it complains that it is unable to request memory, size 2000000. The next, which it flags as fatal, sayy it is unable to reserve frame buffer memory and it asks if there is another frame buffer driver active. [snip] I have a 13.2 system with what may be the same gfxchip, or at least is using the same driver as yours. I just did 'zypper -v up' on it and it still works as expected. Some data points on mine:

# lsmod | grep fb xgifb 106299 0 # uname -a Linux g5eas 3.16.7-21-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue Apr 14 07:11:37 UTC 2015 (93c1539) x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux # rpmqa xf86 | grep sis xf86-video-sis-0.10.7-8.1.4.x86_64 # grep 'using VT' /var/log/Xorg.0.log [ 1033.392] (--) using VT number 7 # lspci | grep VGA 0a:03.0 VGA compatible controller: XGI Technology Inc. (eXtreme Graphics Innovation) Z7/Z9 (XG20 core) # grep chipsets /var/log/Xorg.0.log | egrep -v 'VESA|FBDEV' [ 1033.390] (II) SIS: driver for SiS chipsets: SIS5597/5598, SIS530/620, [ 1033.392] (II) SIS: driver for XGI chipsets: Volari Z7 (XG20), # grep PRETTY /etc/os-release PRETTY_NAME="openSUSE 13.2 (Harlequin) (x86_64)" # grep 'X.Org X Server' /var/log/Xorg.0.log X.Org X Server 1.16.1 # grep 'Kernel Command Line' /var/log/Xorg.0.log [ 1033.353] Kernel command line: root=LABEL=2st12os132 ipv6.disable=1 net.ifnames=0 noresume splash=0 vga=791 3

It may help us help you to know your output from at least 'lspci | grep VGA', but more helpful and possibly necessary would be to share[1] your entire /var/log/Xorg.0.log from having tried a normal boot.

OK, Here is the output I got from the session in which I executed each of the commands you showed. ted@gremlin:~> lsmod | grep fb xgifb 102233 0 ted@gremlin:~> uname -a Linux gremlin 3.11.10-29-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Mar 5 16:24:00 UTC 2015 (338c513) x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux ted@gremlin:~> rpmqa xf86 | grep sis ted@gremlin:~> grep 'using VT' /var/log/Xorg.0.log [ 37.752] (++) using VT number 7 ted@gremlin:~> lspci | grep VGA ted@gremlin:~> grep chipsets /var/log/Xorg.0.log | egrep -v 'VESA|FBDEV' ted@gremlin:~> grep PRETTY /etc/os-release PRETTY_NAME="openSUSE 13.1 (Bottle) (x86_64)" ted@gremlin:~> grep 'X.Org X Server' /var/log/Xorg.0.log X.Org X Server 1.14.3.901 (1.14.4 RC 1) ted@gremlin:~> grep 'Kernel Command Line' /var/log/Xorg.0.log ted@gremlin:~> zypper ref; zypper -v up Root privileges are required for refreshing system repositories. Verbosity: 1 Root privileges are required for updating packages. ted@gremlin:~> sudo zypper ref; zypper -v up root's password: Repository 'openSUSE-13.1-1.7' is up to date. Repository 'openSUSE-13.1-Non-Oss' is up to date. Repository 'openSUSE-13.1-Oss' is up to date. Repository 'openSUSE-13.1-Update' is up to date. Repository 'openSUSE-13.1-Update-Non-Oss' is up to date. All repositories have been refreshed. Verbosity: 1 Root privileges are required for updating packages. ted@gremlin:~> sudo zypper -v up Verbosity: 1 Initializing Target Checking whether to refresh metadata for openSUSE-13.1-Non-Oss Checking whether to refresh metadata for openSUSE-13.1-Oss Checking whether to refresh metadata for openSUSE-13.1-Update Checking whether to refresh metadata for openSUSE-13.1-Update-Non-Oss Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... Force resolution: No The following 6 package updates will NOT be installed: bluedevil 1.3.2_bluez5-3.1 gmp-devel 5.1.2-2.1.2 libgmp10 5.1.2-2.1.2 libgmpxx4 5.1.2-2.1.2 libphonon4 4.7.1-8.3 phonon-backend-gstreamer-0_10 4.7.1-2.12.1 The following package is going to be upgraded: bundle-lang-common-cs 12.3-3.4.3 -> 13.1-2.2.7 1 package to upgrade. Overall download size: 613.1 KiB. After the operation, additional 170.5 KiB will be used. Continue? [y/n/? shows all options] (y): y committing Retrieving package bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7.noarch (1/1), 613.1 KiB ( 2.4 MiB unpacked) Retrieving: media ........................................................[done] Retrieving: bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7.noarch.rpm ....[done (433.8 KiB/s)] (1/1) Installing: bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7 ......................[error] Installation of bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7 failed: Error: Subprocess failed. Error: RPM failed: installing package bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7.noarch needs 4MB on the / filesystem Abort, retry, ignore? [a/r/i] (a): r (1/1) Installing: bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7 ......................[error] Installation of bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7 failed: Error: Subprocess failed. Error: RPM failed: installing package bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7.noarch needs 4MB on the / filesystem Abort, retry, ignore? [a/r/i] (a): Problem occured during or after installation or removal of packages: Installation aborted by user Please see the above error message for a hint. Checking for running processes using deleted libraries... ted@gremlin:~> As the install of that one package failed (though I have no idea if/how that relates to my problem), I ran df -a with the following output: ted@gremlin:~> df -a Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on rootfs 20510716 19493752 0 100% / devtmpfs 4082284 68 4082216 1% /dev tmpfs 4095828 0 4095828 0% /dev/shm tmpfs 4095828 5816 4090012 1% /run devpts 0 0 0 - /dev/pts /dev/sda2 20510716 19493752 0 100% / proc 0 0 0 - /proc sysfs 0 0 0 - /sys securityfs 0 0 0 - /sys/kernel/security tmpfs 4095828 0 4095828 0% /sys/fs/cgroup cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/systemd pstore 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/pstore cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/cpuset cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu,cpuacct cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/memory cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/devices cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/freezer cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/net_cls cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/blkio cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/perf_event cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/hugetlb systemd-1 0 0 0 - /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc mqueue 0 0 0 - /dev/mqueue hugetlbfs 0 0 0 - /dev/hugepages debugfs 0 0 0 - /sys/kernel/debug tmpfs 4095828 5816 4090012 1% /var/run tmpfs 4095828 5816 4090012 1% /var/lock /dev/sda3 223288924 45871340 176266292 21% /home none 0 0 0 - /var/lib/ntp/proc I also have a workstation running OpenSuse 13.2, and it has the same problem of rootfs being 100% used. But there remains plenty of space for /home (one the workstation, there is well over 1.8 TB available - when I installed, I just accepted defaults for partition sizes, so I don't know why it chose too little space for rootfs). I do not know if/how I can tell the system to use some of that available space for rootfs. Is there a fix for this, or do I have to wipe the disk and start over? (If there is no fix except wiping the disk and reinstalling, that won't happen any time soon as I am using these machines to earn a living, and am time constrained.)

If as Carlos suggested to try the previous kernel does not help, try booting with 3 added on the fly to the Grub cmdline to bring up the system without X running. Login as root, then do 'zypper ref; zypper -v up' and see if it finds any packages that YaST updates missed. If booting the previous kernel does help, try removing the newer kernel with YaST or Zypper, then reinstalling it, after first doing 'zypper ref; zypper -v up'.

Another thought: try appending splash=0 and/or vga=791 on the fly to the Grub cmdline. Maybe you're facing a Plymouth problem that one of these might work around. If this works, uninstalling Plymouth or tweaking Grub2 configuration could keep it from coming back during next round of updates. I don't have Plymouth installed. The driver xf86-video-sis is one that isn't very commonly required, so probably doesn't get a lot of testing before releasing.

I have yet to figure out how to get to the grub commandline. Booting with the previous kernel did not help, though. Thanks Ted -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Ted Byers composed on 2015-05-14 17:01 (UTC-0400):

I have yet to figure out how to get to the grub commandline.

In Grub Legacy with gfxboot, simply type. I don't use Grub2. Finding the answer to this specific to openSUSE seems to be less than simple. One would think someone who knows would have put it on https://en.opensuse.org/GRUB by now. http://www.howtogeek.com/196520/grub2-101-how-to-access-and-use-your-linux-d... ought to be close enough. I don't know.

Booting with the previous kernel did not help, though.

:-( -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Ted Byers composed on 2015-05-14 17:01 (UTC-0400):

ted@gremlin:~> lsmod | grep fb xgifb 102233 0 ted@gremlin:~> uname -a Linux gremlin 3.11.10-29-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Mar 5 16:24:00 UTC 2015 (338c513) x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux ted@gremlin:~> rpmqa xf86 | grep sis

rpmqa is my .bashrc alias for 'rpm -qa | grep '. I failed to fully edit my paste to reflect it. :-p

ted@gremlin:~> grep 'using VT' /var/log/Xorg.0.log [ 37.752] (++) using VT number 7 ted@gremlin:~> lspci | grep VGA

I don't know any reason for this to have failed unless related to lack of space on / trying to use the pipe to execute it. To know what's going on requires we know what gfxchip(s) is/are in your system(s), assuming there is any framebuffer trouble left after freeing / filesystem space and rebooting.

ted@gremlin:~> grep chipsets /var/log/Xorg.0.log | egrep -v 'VESA|FBDEV'

Probably lack of space again.

ted@gremlin:~> grep PRETTY /etc/os-release PRETTY_NAME="openSUSE 13.1 (Bottle) (x86_64)" ted@gremlin:~> grep 'X.Org X Server' /var/log/Xorg.0.log X.Org X Server 1.14.3.901 (1.14.4 RC 1) ted@gremlin:~> grep 'Kernel Command Line' /var/log/Xorg.0.log

Case issue, different in log on 13.1 from 13.2???

ted@gremlin:~> zypper ref; zypper -v up ... The following package is going to be upgraded: bundle-lang-common-cs 12.3-3.4.3 -> 13.1-2.2.7

Unless you need cs locale, you shouldn't need this. Likely zypper wants any bundle-lang-common-*, *.cs is first available in alphabet, and bundle-lang-common-en never got installed. ...

(1/1) Installing: bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7 ......................[error] Installation of bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7 failed: Error: Subprocess failed. Error: RPM failed: installing package bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7.noarch needs 4MB on the / filesystem ...

Try again if necessary after freeing space on /. Could well be all your troubles have resulted from filled / and no more updates are necessary. ...

ted@gremlin:~> df -a Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on rootfs 20510716 19493752 0 100% / /dev/sda2 20510716 19493752 0 100% / -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. composed on 2015-05-15 02:48 (UTC+0200):

Ted Byers wrote:

...

ted@gremlin:~> df -a Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on rootfs 20510716 19493752 0 100% / /dev/sda2 20510716 19493752 0 100% /

...

Retrieving: media ........................................................[done] Retrieving: bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7.noarch.rpm ....[done (433.8 KiB/s)] (1/1) Installing: bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7 ......................[error] Installation of bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7 failed: Error: Subprocess failed. Error: RPM failed: installing package bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7.noarch needs 4MB on the / filesystem

Your root filesystem is full.

Not exactly. Root user has access to the difference between 1K-blocks and Used blocks. His is only 100% full as to other users.

You must free up some space before doing anything else.

+1

...

I have yet to figure out how to get to the grub commandline. Booting with the previous kernel did not help, though.

It can not. Full disk.

Reaching a grub cmdline has nothing to do with freespace on / filesystem. Booting with "100%" of / filesystem in use is possible, but results can easily be seriously frustrating. First order of business on such a boot as you say needs to be making freespace non-zero, followed by rebooting. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/14/2015 09:19 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

My point on this paragraph is that booting the previous kernel solves nothing, because the partition is full.

I don't want to sound like a cracked record but .... The concept of fixed provisioning with fdisk or similar at system initialization (aka install) time dates from the first half of the last century and was one of my major griped about successive generations of UNIX of all flavours. It was like that with V6 back in the late 1970s, progressed though with UNIX/86 from SCO and onwards. I was delighted when I met the Veritas manager on AIX, And even more delighted when that was re-implemented as LVM under Linux. While it is possible to put the /boot partition on LVM its not worth the hassle when things go wrong. However calculation for provisioning of /boot is pretty simple. You just figure that you are going to have at max N kernels and initrds. But the root partition is another matter. It can quite legitimately grow. Life was easier when /usr could be another partition but that time is past. However there is no reason you can't put /usr/share on a separate parition, along with other "root-ish" things like /opt, /local, /var, /srv and of course /tmp. There are good reasons to have some of them such as /tmp mounted "noexec,nodev". Others might be mounted "nosuid". It all helps reduce the security exposure, and that goes for the 'fat finger -- oops!' type of security gaff as well. Having file systems under LVM defers the issue of deciding how much space to allocate. All modern file systems can increase in size after the LVM logical volume (aka partition) has been increased. Some file systems can be shrunk as well if you over estimated. That's one reason I like ResiserFS. Not only can it increase and decrease in size, it can do so while mounted and in use on a running system! No need to drop down into rescue mode or single user mode and unmount everything! And yes I've met the case where my root file system has filled up and I needed to grow it. As it happened, this occurred with a BtrFS RootFS. BtrFS can grow. I don't believe it can shrink. Yes I had to go into rescue mode to do this, which is another strike against BtrFS and in favour of ReiserFS. In all my time ui=sing LVM I've only had 3 problems 1. Head crash, total disk loss 2. /boot on a LV but lost the MBR linkage .. Somehow... 3. Introduction of lvmetad daemon & 'switch' with no prior warning. Now I realise this is of no use to people who aren't using LVM and have fixed provisioning problems like the OP. But the real issue here is about planning and foresight. There has been a trend over the last decades to what might be termed "deferred design". Some of it is in the form of the separation of the presentation layer from the operational logic, which we've seen in web site design, though to be fair all to many commercial sites have not taken advantage of this. Many modern languages are about deferred design. Ruby is perhaps an extreme case of that with "Duck Typing", though it has a good historic precedent in the Bourne shell of old UNIX and even LISP. LVM is about deferring the final decision -- even revising the decision -- about file system space provisioning. And that goes for the ROOT partition as well. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/14/2015 10:24 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Administering LVM is another level of difficulty, specially when there are problems. I would not use it unless you are familiar enough with it. I am not.

Problems? I suppose you can have problems with fdisk as well, but I find administering LVM about as complicated as administering with fdisk. The nice thing about LVM is that if you make a mistake you can easily correct it. No so easy with fdisk. Suse used to have a nice document on administering LVM. I still have a print out on a shelf. I dug it out. its by Michael Hasenstein and is dates (c) 2001 "SuSE has included the Logical Volume Manager since SuSE Linux 6.3." http://blyx.com/public/docs/Lvm.pdf 30 pages including 5 appendixes. It explains ALL and I mean ALL about LVM including striping, clustering, mirroring, concatenation and all the other stuff that you don't really need to know about, not least of all use with RAID. It goes into performance comparisons with and without LVM, with ext2 vs resiser, with striping, with clustering It describes all about setting up and using LVM, both with the CLI and with YAST. Its the screenshots that take up page after page! At page 15 there are the three command that matter: Wrotehttp://cdn5.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/lvm-cheatsheet.png What this all boils down to is that if you can can handle zypper to add repositories and add packages, LVM isn't any more complicated. 90% of the time you use lvcreate and lvresize and perhaps lvremove. oh and lvscan which is the 'ls' of LVM just as 'lsusb' is the 'ls' of USB. Familiarity helps, as with everything. When you are dealing with large drives or with RAID arrays making up lots of storage, dynamic provisioning is very nice! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/14/2015 10:26 PM, James Knott wrote:

On 05/14/2015 10:16 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

The concept of fixed provisioning with fdisk or similar at system initialization (aka install) time dates from the first half of the last century

Actually, there wasn't any disks back then. The disk drive was invented by IBM in the 50s, which is in the 2nd half of the last century. Also, early drives didn't have a file system as such, just sectors on the disk or drum, which could be directly accessed by the software.

It all "revolves" (sorry for the pun) around what is meant by "Provisioning". Fixed provisioning of storage space, be it by file system or by bulk allocation or by volume of mercury in the delay line is still provisioning that has to be done at "initialization". Perhaps the initialization is the physical building of the machine! When I say "or similar' I really do mean that in the loosest of terms. Nothing in the examples you quote, James, contradict the point I'm trying to make. If you really do want an an example of pre DASD "dynamic" allocation you might turn to punch tape or punch card. Or perhaps some mag tape. Read it it, punch it out again with changes to replace the original. I've done that with an English Electric 800 series, magnetic amplifiers, not valves. Read in the compiler (ALGOL-60) from paper tape, then read in the source code, again from paper tape. It punches out the complied code. You then read that tape in :-) No storage other than the memory of the "mill". The tape came on big rolls, BIG BIG rolls, so its was sort of like the "allocate dynamically as needed" with LVM. Oh, and there were no file systems on paper tape either :-) -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/15/2015 08:06 AM, James Knott wrote:

On 05/15/2015 12:42 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

When I say "or similar' I really do mean that in the loosest of terms.

On that drum, there were a couple of "tracks" at the top of the drum, that consisted of ferrite lines printed directly on the bare drum. One was the clock track and the other, the "sector" track, which was used to indicate where the data started. There was no other formatting done, other than physically moving a head, if there was a bad spot on the drum. I used to gap those heads with a strip of bond paper. I could also use the front panel read & write directly to the drum.

In many ways, "how little has changed". Today's high capacity rotating rust uses the out tracks to store what get called "modules" These can be a variety of things that include some of what you mention, call it data about the disk geometry rather than just "where the data starts", the bad sector tables and the mapping of alternate sectors. There may also be 'executable' modules, microcode patches. Two years ago I had a disk crash and took the disk in for repair; the service manager explained much about how 'modern' disks work, of which the above is a synopsis. The 'linear' model we have of disk storage is the one presented to us by the disk software. There is a CompSci saying that many problems can be solved by a level of indirection. Modern disks are making use of that; what we manipulate with 'fdisk' is just another layer of indirection. (lets not even get started on what it takes to get 'solid state disks' to look like SCSI drives!) So having LVM is another layer and the file system yet another layer. All this to make the abstract model easier to manipulate[1]. I don't think there's anything noble about cutting out a layer of indirection, writing to the raw disk. Its not as if this is a 1960 NASA project where every bit of memory represents a ferrite core and an additional gram of weight which means an additional 100kg of fuel to launch. I did that kind of micro-electronics early in my career and boy was I glad when LSI came out and VLSI and semiconductor memory. War Stories of the distant past are just that. its like Survivalists talking about making their own black powder and doing self-loading in their basement. Great, but that's no way to run a modern army. [1] networking is a case in point. TCP is 'end to end' regardless. The layers of abstraction means that the programme and hence the application programmer can write code that works on a LAN, on a WAN or over Wifi. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 9:12 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

Carlos E. R. composed on 2015-05-15 02:48 (UTC+0200):

...

Ted Byers wrote:

...

...

ted@gremlin:~> df -a Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on rootfs 20510716 19493752 0 100% / /dev/sda2 20510716 19493752 0 100% /

...

...

Retrieving: media ........................................................[done] Retrieving: bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7.noarch.rpm ....[done (433.8 KiB/s)] (1/1) Installing: bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7 ......................[error] Installation of bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7 failed: Error: Subprocess failed. Error: RPM failed: installing package bundle-lang-common-cs-13.1-2.2.7.noarch needs 4MB on the / filesystem

...

Your root filesystem is full.

Not exactly. Root user has access to the difference between 1K-blocks and Used blocks. His is only 100% full as to other users.

...

You must free up some space before doing anything else.

+1

Well, I got rid of some old RPM files, and that freed some space. ted@gremlin:/usr/share> df -a Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on rootfs 20510716 19430324 15436 100% / devtmpfs 4082284 68 4082216 1% /dev tmpfs 4095828 0 4095828 0% /dev/shm tmpfs 4095828 7076 4088752 1% /run devpts 0 0 0 - /dev/pts /dev/sda2 20510716 19430324 15436 100% / proc 0 0 0 - /proc sysfs 0 0 0 - /sys securityfs 0 0 0 - /sys/kernel/security tmpfs 4095828 0 4095828 0% /sys/fs/cgroup cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/systemd pstore 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/pstore cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/cpuset cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu,cpuacct cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/memory cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/devices cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/freezer cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/net_cls cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/blkio cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/perf_event cgroup 0 0 0 - /sys/fs/cgroup/hugetlb systemd-1 0 0 0 - /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc mqueue 0 0 0 - /dev/mqueue hugetlbfs 0 0 0 - /dev/hugepages debugfs 0 0 0 - /sys/kernel/debug tmpfs 4095828 7076 4088752 1% /var/run tmpfs 4095828 7076 4088752 1% /var/lock /dev/sda3 223288924 45871340 176266292 21% /home none 0 0 0 - /var/lib/ntp/proc binfmt_misc 0 0 0 - /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc ted@gremlin:/usr/share> It looks like I now have about 15 MB on /, rather than 0 MB. But, that doesn't seem enough. I am appending a list of the contents of /var/log. Is there a quick way to get rid of those logs that are, say, more than a month old - or perhaps a log management tool that can get rid of old logs and shrink current ones? I am curious as to why some of the logs (firewall and y2log esp.) for which the current log is HUGE, substantially greater than the previous files. If you look at the following listing, it seems that even if I get rid of all the old files, there won't be a huge amount of space that is freed. I note, above, that /home has lots of space. It has been suggested that I move /usr/share, so could I copy it there and mount it from there. But the question is, how would I do that, and how much space would that free on /. I guess I could copy the contents of /home to one of my other machines, and completely reinstall everything (as a last resort). I believe the file systems are ext4. Can they be resized (make /home smaller and then make / bigger)? Thanks Ted ====listing of /var/log================= gremlin:/var/log # alias ls='ls -alFR --group-directories-first' gremlin:/var/log # ls .: total 114484 drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 May 14 16:45 ./ drwxr-xr-x 16 root root 4096 Jun 25 2014 ../ drwx------ 2 root root 4096 May 5 11:23 YaST2/ drwxr-x--- 2 root root 4096 Jan 7 11:22 apache2/ drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Nov 17 05:22 apparmor/ drwx------ 2 root root 4096 Sep 28 2013 audit/ drwxr-xr-x 2 lp lp 4096 Feb 18 07:58 cups/ drwxrwxr-x 3 root lp 4096 Jan 15 2014 hp/ drwx------ 2 root root 4096 Mar 12 06:06 krb5/ drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 May 5 12:09 kvm/ drwx------ 4 root root 4096 May 5 12:12 libvirt/ drwxrwx--- 2 mysql mysql 4096 Oct 23 2013 mysql/ drwxr-x--- 2 news news 4096 Mar 6 2013 news/ drwxr-x--- 2 root root 4096 Feb 23 11:24 samba/ drwxrwxr-x 2 root tomcat 4096 May 13 09:19 tomcat/ drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Dec 27 2013 updateTestcase-2013-12-27-19-42-16/ drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 May 5 11:23 xen/ drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Aug 1 2014 zypp/ -rw-r----- 1 root root 827 Oct 28 2014 NetworkManager -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 16588 May 13 17:25 Xorg.0.log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 16588 May 13 17:25 Xorg.0.log.old -rw-r----- 1 root root 0 Oct 28 2014 acpid -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 91447 May 5 12:01 alternatives.log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 10256 May 13 17:25 boot.log -rw------- 1 root root 6912 May 4 15:38 btmp lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 May 5 11:22 dump -> /var/crash/ -rw------- 1 root root 32064 May 13 16:22 faillog -rw-r----- 1 root root 2504306 May 15 15:06 firewall -rw-r----- 1 root root 184900 May 24 2014 firewall-20140524.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 162712 Jul 30 2014 firewall-20140730.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 156780 Nov 4 2014 firewall-20141104.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 160032 Jan 13 07:14 firewall-20150113.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 198412 Jan 19 07:14 firewall-20150119.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 204852 Jan 25 07:14 firewall-20150125.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 174360 Jan 30 07:15 firewall-20150130.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 202536 Feb 5 07:14 firewall-20150205.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 199328 Feb 11 06:39 firewall-20150211.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 195476 Feb 16 07:14 firewall-20150216.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 197844 Feb 21 07:13 firewall-20150221.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 205508 Feb 27 07:14 firewall-20150227.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 204160 Mar 5 07:13 firewall-20150305.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 173432 Mar 10 08:13 firewall-20150310.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 183056 Mar 15 08:13 firewall-20150315.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 171708 Mar 20 08:14 firewall-20150320.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 173320 Mar 25 08:14 firewall-20150325.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 177800 Mar 30 08:14 firewall-20150330.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 182764 Apr 4 08:14 firewall-20150404.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 176936 Apr 9 08:14 firewall-20150409.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 172524 Apr 14 08:14 firewall-20150414.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 202952 Apr 20 08:14 firewall-20150420.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 202464 Apr 26 08:14 firewall-20150426.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 174220 May 1 08:15 firewall-20150501.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 211380 May 7 08:14 firewall-20150507.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 179908 May 12 08:14 firewall-20150512.xz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 195595 May 13 17:25 kdm.log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 292584 May 14 16:39 lastlog -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6347 May 13 17:25 localmessages -rw-r----- 1 root root 5361 May 5 12:18 mail -rw-r----- 1 root root 589 May 5 12:18 mail.err -rw-r----- 1 root root 5361 May 5 12:18 mail.info -rw-r----- 1 root root 589 May 5 12:18 mail.warn -rw-r----- 1 root root 499522 May 15 15:02 messages -rw-r----- 1 root root 226844 May 24 2014 messages-20140524.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 244892 Jul 2 2014 messages-20140702.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 253760 Aug 4 2014 messages-20140804.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 257800 Sep 10 2014 messages-20140910.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 251256 Oct 19 2014 messages-20141019.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 265452 Nov 23 07:15 messages-20141123.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 252180 Jan 1 07:15 messages-20150101.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 250608 Feb 9 07:15 messages-20150209.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 252208 Mar 20 08:15 messages-20150320.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 254728 Apr 28 08:15 messages-20150428.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 4685700 May 6 08:15 messages-20150506.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 5980408 May 7 08:15 messages-20150507.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 5939188 May 8 08:15 messages-20150508.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 5936520 May 9 08:15 messages-20150509.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 6101396 May 10 08:15 messages-20150510.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 5968044 May 11 08:15 messages-20150511.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 6005404 May 12 08:15 messages-20150512.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 3728980 May 13 09:45 messages-20150513.xz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4096 May 13 17:23 ntp -rw------- 1 root root 2036417 May 12 23:01 pbl.log -rw-r----- 1 root root 5903585 May 5 12:26 pk_backend_zypp -rw-r----- 1 root root 10655327 Jun 11 2014 pk_backend_zypp-1 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 May 5 12:20 pm-powersave.log -rw-r----- 1 root root 38031 May 15 09:45 warn -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4337440 May 6 08:15 warn-20150506.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 5623072 May 7 08:15 warn-20150507.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 5535784 May 8 08:15 warn-20150508.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 5529288 May 9 08:15 warn-20150509.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 5538324 May 10 08:15 warn-20150510.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 5553280 May 11 08:15 warn-20150511.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 5609728 May 12 08:15 warn-20150512.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 3416816 May 13 09:39 warn-20150513.xz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1520 May 13 17:24 wpa_supplicant.log -rw-rw-r-- 1 root utmp 307200 May 14 16:39 wtmp -rw-r----- 1 root root 263161 May 14 16:46 zypper.log -rw-r----- 1 root root 423948 Dec 11 2013 zypper.log-20131211.xz -rw-r----- 1 root root 968104 Dec 27 2013 zypper.log-20131227.xz ./YaST2: total 18252 drwx------ 2 root root 4096 May 5 11:23 ./ drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 May 14 16:45 ../ -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 512 Aug 29 2013 _dev_sda -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 512 Aug 29 2013 _dev_sda2 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 59 Aug 29 2013 arch.info -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 12253 Aug 29 2013 config_diff_2013_08_29.log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 8357 Dec 27 2013 config_diff_2013_12_27.log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 489 Jan 1 2014 config_diff_2014_01_01.log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1203 Aug 15 2014 config_diff_2014_08_15.log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 166 Oct 28 2014 config_diff_2014_10_28.log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1066 May 5 11:23 config_diff_2015_05_05.log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2477 Jun 25 2014 disk_sda.info -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2313 Aug 29 2013 disk_sda.info-1 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 661 Aug 29 2013 disk_sda.info-2 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 30 Aug 29 2013 free.info -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 394 Aug 29 2013 macro_inst_cont.ycp -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11798 Aug 29 2013 macro_inst_initial.ycp -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 698551 May 12 23:01 mkinitrd.log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1652768 May 12 23:01 perl-BL-standalone-log -rw------- 1 root root 9071 May 13 17:18 signal -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1282 Jun 25 2014 tmpfs.info -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1282 Aug 29 2013 tmpfs.info-1 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3741 Sep 13 2013 y2changes -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 10021955 May 13 17:18 y2log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 656352 May 5 11:21 y2log-1.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 693277 Aug 30 2014 y2log-2.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 665115 Jul 17 2014 y2log-3.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 682021 Jun 25 2014 y2log-4.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 724051 Jun 13 2014 y2log-5.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 701061 May 31 2014 y2log-6.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 702658 May 15 2014 y2log-7.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 612230 Apr 23 2014 y2log-8.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 704826 Mar 20 2014 y2log-9.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1125 May 12 23:01 y2log_bootloader -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 482 Aug 29 2013 y2logmkinitrd -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7727 Aug 29 2013 y2start.log ./apache2: total 1012 drwxr-x--- 2 root root 4096 Jan 7 11:22 ./ drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 May 14 16:45 ../ -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 361622 Jul 30 2014 access_log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 514086 May 13 17:25 error_log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 65536 May 13 22:40 gremlin.site-access_log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 23847 May 13 22:40 gremlin.site-error_log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 35559 May 13 22:40 ssl_request_log ./apparmor: total 8 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Nov 17 05:22 ./ drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 May 14 16:45 ../ ./audit: total 8 drwx------ 2 root root 4096 Sep 28 2013 ./ drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 May 14 16:45 ../ ./cups: total 20 drwxr-xr-x 2 lp lp 4096 Feb 18 07:58 ./ drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 May 14 16:45 ../ -rw-r--r-- 1 root lp 191 Aug 29 2013 access_log -rw-r--r-- 1 root lp 5260 Feb 7 2014 error_log -rw-r--r-- 1 root lp 0 Aug 29 2013 page_log ./hp: total 12 drwxrwxr-x 3 root lp 4096 Jan 15 2014 ./ drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 May 14 16:45 ../ drwxrwxr-x 2 root lp 4096 Jan 15 2014 tmp/ ./hp/tmp: total 8 drwxrwxr-x 2 root lp 4096 Jan 15 2014 ./ drwxrwxr-x 3 root lp 4096 Jan 15 2014 ../ ./krb5: total 8 drwx------ 2 root root 4096 Mar 12 06:06 ./ drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 May 14 16:45 ../ ./kvm: total 8 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 May 5 12:09 ./ drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 May 14 16:45 ../ ./libvirt: total 16 drwx------ 4 root root 4096 May 5 12:12 ./ drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 May 14 16:45 ../ drwx------ 2 root root 4096 May 5 12:10 libxl/ drwx------ 2 root root 4096 May 5 15:29 qemu/ ./libvirt/libxl: total 12 drwx------ 2 root root 4096 May 5 12:10 ./ drwx------ 4 root root 4096 May 5 12:12 ../ -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1620 May 13 17:25 libxl-driver.log ./libvirt/qemu: total 20 drwx------ 2 root root 4096 May 5 15:29 ./ drwx------ 4 root root 4096 May 5 12:12 ../ -rw------- 1 root root 2934 May 12 23:05 dbbox.log -rw------- 1 root root 4501 May 12 23:05 wwwbox.log ./mysql: total 96 drwxrwx--- 2 mysql mysql 4096 Oct 23 2013 ./ drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 May 14 16:45 ../ -rw-r----- 1 mysql mysql 14044 Jan 2 2014 mysqld-upgrade-run.log -rw-r----- 1 mysql mysql 49601 Jan 2 2014 mysqld-upgrade.log -rw-r----- 1 mysql mysql 13293 Dec 27 2013 mysqld.log ./news: total 8 drwxr-x--- 2 news news 4096 Mar 6 2013 ./ drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 May 14 16:45 ../ -rw-r----- 1 news news 0 Oct 28 2014 news.crit -rw-r----- 1 news news 0 Oct 28 2014 news.err -rw-r----- 1 news news 0 Oct 28 2014 news.notice ./samba: total 8 drwxr-x--- 2 root root 4096 Feb 23 11:24 ./ drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 May 14 16:45 ../ ./tomcat: total 212 drwxrwxr-x 2 root tomcat 4096 May 13 09:19 ./ drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 May 14 16:45 ../ -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6148 Jun 11 2014 catalina.2014-06-11.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 3815 Jun 25 2014 catalina.2014-06-25.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 3815 Jul 9 2014 catalina.2014-07-09.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 7684 Jul 15 2014 catalina.2014-07-15.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 3815 Aug 15 2014 catalina.2014-08-15.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 3815 Oct 28 2014 catalina.2014-10-28.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 3313 Nov 8 2014 catalina.2014-11-08.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 3618 Nov 11 2014 catalina.2014-11-11.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 11078 May 5 12:20 catalina.2015-05-05.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 4096 May 12 23:18 catalina.2015-05-12.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 May 13 17:25 catalina.2015-05-13.log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6148 Jun 11 2014 catalina.out -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jun 11 2014 host-manager.2014-06-11.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 Jun 25 2014 host-manager.2014-06-25.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 Jul 9 2014 host-manager.2014-07-09.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 Jul 15 2014 host-manager.2014-07-15.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 Aug 15 2014 host-manager.2014-08-15.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 Oct 28 2014 host-manager.2014-10-28.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 Nov 8 2014 host-manager.2014-11-08.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 Nov 11 2014 host-manager.2014-11-11.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 May 5 11:10 host-manager.2015-05-05.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 May 12 23:05 host-manager.2015-05-12.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 May 13 09:19 host-manager.2015-05-13.log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1644 Jun 11 2014 localhost.2014-06-11.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 447 Jun 25 2014 localhost.2014-06-25.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 447 Jul 9 2014 localhost.2014-07-09.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 900 Jul 15 2014 localhost.2014-07-15.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 447 Aug 15 2014 localhost.2014-08-15.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 447 Oct 28 2014 localhost.2014-10-28.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 447 Nov 8 2014 localhost.2014-11-08.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 450 Nov 11 2014 localhost.2014-11-11.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 1349 May 5 12:20 localhost.2015-05-05.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 May 12 23:17 localhost.2015-05-12.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 May 13 17:25 localhost.2015-05-13.log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4436 Jun 11 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-06-11.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 348 Jun 12 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-06-12.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 91 Jun 13 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-06-13.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 174 Jun 14 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-06-14.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 174 Jun 15 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-06-15.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 174 Jun 16 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-06-16.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 174 Jun 17 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-06-17.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 348 Jun 19 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-06-19.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 174 Jun 20 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-06-20.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 348 Jun 21 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-06-21.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 348 Jun 23 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-06-23.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 174 Jun 25 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-06-25.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 590 Jun 26 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-06-26.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 174 Jun 27 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-06-27.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 174 Jun 28 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-06-28.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 174 Jun 29 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-06-29.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 174 Jun 30 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-06-30.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 348 Jul 1 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-07-01.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 174 Jul 2 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-07-02.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 348 Jul 3 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-07-03.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 174 Jul 4 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-07-04.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 416 Jul 9 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-07-09.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 832 Jul 15 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-07-15.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 Aug 15 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-08-15.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 416 Oct 28 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-10-28.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 Nov 8 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-11-08.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 Nov 11 2014 localhost_access_log.2014-11-11.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 416 May 4 11:32 localhost_access_log.2015-05-04.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 May 5 11:10 localhost_access_log.2015-05-05.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 May 12 23:05 localhost_access_log.2015-05-12.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 May 13 09:19 localhost_access_log.2015-05-13.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jun 11 2014 manager.2014-06-11.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 Jun 25 2014 manager.2014-06-25.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 Jul 9 2014 manager.2014-07-09.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 Jul 15 2014 manager.2014-07-15.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 Aug 15 2014 manager.2014-08-15.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 Oct 28 2014 manager.2014-10-28.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 Nov 8 2014 manager.2014-11-08.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 Nov 11 2014 manager.2014-11-11.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 May 5 11:10 manager.2015-05-05.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 May 12 23:05 manager.2015-05-12.log -rw-r--r-- 1 tomcat tomcat 0 May 13 09:19 manager.2015-05-13.log ./updateTestcase-2013-12-27-19-42-16: total 5700 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Dec 27 2013 ./ drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 May 14 16:45 ../ -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 195698 Dec 27 2013 20155920-package.xml.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1273638 Dec 27 2013 20854864-package.xml.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 370291 Dec 27 2013 20871536-package.xml.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6839 Dec 27 2013 20873472-package.xml.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3219872 Dec 27 2013 21047984-package.xml.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2908 Dec 27 2013 21156064-package.xml.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 730555 Dec 27 2013 solver-system.xml.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 12532 Dec 27 2013 solver-test.xml ./xen: total 12 drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 May 5 11:23 ./ drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 May 14 16:45 ../ drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Apr 13 07:54 console/ ./xen/console: total 8 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Apr 13 07:54 ./ drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 May 5 11:23 ../ ./zypp: total 2360 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Aug 1 2014 ./ drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 May 14 16:45 ../ -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2401711 May 14 16:45 history gremlin:/var/log # -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 15-05-15 05:13 PM, I.Petrov wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256

Hello Ted,

The following command will delete all files older than 30 days in the /var/log/ directory and all of its subdirectories:

find /var/log/ -type f -mtime +30 -exec rm -rf {};

The old files in /var/log/ are smaller because are compressed. Resizing of the partitions (shrinking on some of them and extending of others) should be possible but must be made from a live cd/usb as the partitions which will be resized must not be mounted. However I would do a backup of whatever I can if I choose to to do this.

Regards, I. Petrov Thanks for this.

Alas, there seems to be a typo, or something. The following is what I got in the session in which I tried: ted@gremlin:~> find /var/log/ -type f -mtime +30 -exec rm -rf {}; find: missing argument to `-exec' ted@gremlin:~> Why would it not see 'rm -rf {}; as the argument for '-exec'? Thanks Ted -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/18/2015 11:36 AM, Ted Byers wrote:

Alas, there seems to be a typo, or something. The following is what I got in the session in which I tried:

ted@gremlin:~> find /var/log/ -type f -mtime +30 -exec rm -rf {}; find: missing argument to `-exec' ted@gremlin:~>

Why would it not see 'rm -rf {}; as the argument for '-exec'?

Cracked record time comes round once again. RTFM $ man 1 find <quote> -exec command ; ... The string `{}' is replaced ..... Both of these constructions might need to be escaped (with a `\') or quoted to protect them from expansion by the shell. See the EXAMPLES section for examples of the use of the -exec option. </quote> The EXAMPLES section <quote emphasis added> find . -type f -exec file '{}' \; Runs `file' on every file in or below the current directory. *Notice that the braces are enclosed in single quote marks to* *protect them from interpretation as shell script punctuation.* *The semicolon is similarly protected by the use of a backslash,* *though single quotes could have been used in that case also.* </quote> The use of single quotes or backslash to prevent (possibly premature) shell interpretation is a common and well documented feature of Linux and all other UNIX derivatives. It is a fundamental pattern that should be in the cognitive DNA of all command line users. http://www.quickmeme.com/img/40/4005465b41f4f1deb452e0762514c63755379730b540... -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/15/2015 04:19 PM, Ted Byers wrote:

I am appending a list of the contents of /var/log. Is there a quick way to get rid of those logs that are, say, more than a month old

Two points: Yes, you can delete the *.xz. Manually. You may even want to compress log files more aggressively :-) You may also want to "tune" the generation of logs - see the appropriate config files, probably in /etc/ somewhere Secondly, why oh why oh why don't you have /var on a separate file system? Let me hark on about using LVM for managing file systems. Heck, if my /var grows I can make a new logical volume just for /var/log! I found that, for example, my photo collection was overloading /home. So I created a "Photographs" LV and mounted it at /home/anton/Photographs. In die course that grew so I now have appropriately sized LVs mounted at ~anton/Photographs/2012, ~anton/Photographs/2013, ~anton/Photographs/2014, ~anton/Photographs/2015. The key in the above sentence is "appropriately sized". I can do provisioning -- aka "shrink to fit" -- after the event. That lets me free up what would be wasted space and lets me grow, for example the ROOT LV if needed. In reality I don't need to because I have /dev/mapper/vgmain-vUsrShare on /usr/share /dev/mapper/vgmain-vOpt on /opt /dev/mapper/vgmain-vVar on /var /dev/mapper/vgmain-vSrv on /srv /dev/mapper/vgmain-vLocal on /usr/local /dev/mapper/vgmain-vTMP on /tmp /dev/mapper/vgmain-vDocuments on /home/anton/Documents /dev/mapper/vgmain-vDownloads on /home/anton/Downloads /dev/mapper/vgmain-vMail on /home/anton/Mail many of the things, particular under ~anton/, are on 5G LVs. That makes them easily mapped onto DVDs for backups. LVM also allows for snapshots of LVs which makes backup easier :-) In this day and age, dealing with hard drives or RAID arrays many times the size of what it takes to install the basic system[1] there is really no justification for NOT making used of the 'deferred provisioning' available with LVM. My desktop has a 1T 'drive' with /boot and /swap, which are easy to provision for, outside the LVM. I could, and have in the past, added swap with a LV, but don't at the moment. I could and have in the past had /boot as a LV but that can be problematic when doing crash recovery as you need to get the mapper running before you could mount it, and the "recovery" mechanism on the DVD doesn't know about that by default; it takes explicit manipulation - simpler to have a fixed /boot :-) So I have, logically, 924.06 GiB in the LVM with over 25 LVs (including ones dedicated to downloading and one dedicated to uploading from the camera) leaving about 700GiB free Adding LVs to deal with VM images, if you live with virtual machines, is very easy and convenient, as is duplicating them! Perhaps I've become slick with experience, perhaps its that I don't try complicated things like striping/mirroring of individual LVs. Creation, duplication, deletion, resizing of LVs (and corresponding file systems) is straight forward and easy. Fixed provisioning at install time is just so 20th century! [] I have older, slower, single core machines from the Closet of Anxieties with 30G drives on which I've installed openSuse and still have adequate space for running, for example, a LDAP server + SAMBA managing login authentication for a Windows domain + RADIUS + NIS -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/15/2015 05:37 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2015-05-15 23:15, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

Secondly, why oh why oh why don't you have /var on a separate file system?

I don't. It is not made by default. He said he is not a system administrator

it comes down to this: Do you want a resilient system that survives perturbations or do you want a fragile one? -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/15/2015 07:53 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2015-05-16 00:16, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

On 05/15/2015 05:37 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2015-05-15 23:15, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

Secondly, why oh why oh why don't you have /var on a separate file system?

I don't. It is not made by default. He said he is not a system administrator

...

it comes down to this:

...

Do you want a resilient system that survives perturbations or do you want a fragile one?

Mine has survived over a decade with no /var partition. None of my systems has it. :-)

... And /tmp ? /usr? Have you divided up /home/carlos/ ? Part of the reason things have gone well for you is that you are otherwise attentive. For what I consider "my" system, so am I. But many of the systems I set up I can't guarantee I will be there for their lifetimes. Many people are more concerned with the "appreciations" and don't want to spend much time doing the kind of "sysadmin stuff" that you and I an some others here consider commonplace and reflex so much that we don't think about it[1]. At one site I set up automated backups to cartridge tape. Each morning I pulled last night's tape and put in a new one -- by habit, by reflex. The one day there wasn't a new tape in the box! WTF! The departmental 'secretary' used to order a new box each month, but when she left her replacement didn't know about this, it WAS NEVER A DOCUMENTED PROCEDURE! The next day I had a newly bought (on expenses) box of tape and the procedure was now documented and followed! I'm long gone but that process still holds :-) Not everyone has the informal habit, reflex. Many people never look at their logs, never check their disk capacities until something breaks, never check SMART. .... It is in their interests to have a resilient system, one that "errors gracefully" and avoids many of the egregious errors that can occur, for example, by having everything on the root FS rather than having separate /tmp, /usr and so on. That's what this thread was really about, a fragile system because of lack of partitioning. LVM makes adding 'partitions' easy. And yes I've been in the situation where rather than moving /usr/share to /home/user_share and setting up a symlink I created a new LV and moved it there and mounted it. Much cleaner. [1] Like putting on the seat belt when getting in the car. I went to the garage and got in the car just to get something out of the glove compartment. I couldn't reach, the belt was holding me back. I fastened the belt on getting in the completely by reflex, even though I wasn't setting out to drive. Reflex. That I've never been in a collision and never _needed_ the seat belt is irrelevant. Wrote \ / ASCII Ribbon CampaignWrote -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/16/2015 08:40 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2015-05-16 02:53, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

On 05/15/2015 07:53 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

Mine has survived over a decade with no /var partition. None of my systems has it. :-)

...

... And /tmp ? /usr? Have you divided up /home/carlos/ ?

Not /tmp. /usr yes, for two reasons: one, to grow system space, because I don't use LVM. Two, because not only is a different partition, but also a different hard disk, which makes the overall system faster, because Linux can paralelize disk operations — since many years: it was explained in the SuSE (paper) administration or reference book, since I first saw it on version 5 or 6 something.

:-) Nothing new there, kernel thread scheduling. In fact back in the PDP-11 days not only could the kernel threads parallelise operations, the hardware disk controller could carry out parallel operations. The CPU could set up a series of linked "disk control blocks" for the 'autonomous data transfer" mechanism in the disk controller, itself a minicomputer of sorts, to read in via DMA and carry out. Of course the problem the controller only had one data channel into memory so while it could perform simultaneous seeks on each connected disk, it could only transfer data from one at a time. The DEC operating systems had code that optimized all this! PDP-11 UNIX didn't bother. It just had a simple and faster algorithms. Eventually this all made it to the VAX, and there was the famous performance war between Bill Joy coding BSD UNIX in C and Dave Cutler coding VAX VMS in assembler. Bill usually won. Any improvement Dave made Bill promptly trumped. Eventually Dave swore that he'd never code an OS in assembler again, which was why when he came to design & code Microsoft NT it was done in C. There were two reasons UNIX BSD kept trumping VAX VMS and both had to do with choosing regularity over text-book style 'optimization'. The first is that UNIX has only one file type: an array of bytes. VAX VMS optimized the file type but that led to two types of problems. The first was the kernel code needed to handle and recognise them, and the user-libraries needed to manage them. BLOAT! COMPLEXITY! Programmers had to use the right kind of open, the write kind of read, the right kind of write. And worse! When i used VAM I found that the text editor produced the wrong type of files for the C compiler to read! The second had to do with paralelism. Processes were lightweight under UNIX, they could be easily created and destroyed, whereas with VMS they had to be setr up and created when the system was generated and were heavyweight. Process switching, even kernel threads, was much more involved with VAX VMS and so, by comparison, less time was available for user computation. There were some tradeoffs but they added to the complexity of the VAX VMS kernel and so made optimization of the assembler code (aka 'spaghetti') more involved.

And yes, I do have several other partitions, for different uses, like /usr/local, /opt... But not /var, nor /tmp :-p

(Yes, I have set up /tmp on sites I prepared. No reason to do the same at home)

Wrote We've recently seen a 'maveric' snapper consume all of the root FS. You can search for the history going back well into the last century on Linux, UNIX, AIX, HP/UX and many othr platforms and UNIX variants of maverick programs consuming the root FS via /tmp and paralleling the machine. Having /tmp on a separate FS is simple security control for that and for malicious scripts and downloads the "noexec,nosuid.nodev' is also a simple and logical preventative control.

But most people are not professionals, but simply people that happen to use computers.

*sigh* I had a paper published back in the early 1970s about that. There was the London amateur computer club and people were saying that. I countered that even 'hobbyists' deserved professional grade software. What is the point of having an editor that craps out on you, that doesn't actually save what you wrote, just because you aren't a professional. Amateurs and hobbyists deserve a system that is every bit as robust and resilient as "professionals".

Many openSUSE users reformat their systems, reinstalling it, on each release. It doesn't matter thus, to calculate for decades of resilience.

This is a computer not your car. Resilience isn't about wearing down over the decades. Its about surviving an event, a maveric program, a download gone wrong consuming space, malware trying to execute or create a back door. More to the point, its a simple and easy change that is a very effective control -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/15/2015 05:33 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

du -hsx --exclude=/proc --exclude=/sys --exclude=/run --exclude=/dev /*

That will tell you the sizes of all your directories sprouting from the root (not all possible mounts, though: for that, remove the 'x').

NO! The "/*" will include "/home", just not things mounted on /home/ So in my case, all the things such as /boot/, /tmp/, /srv/, and more which are all mounted file systems will show up. All of /home/anton/ shows since that is not mounted. It is /home/anton/mail that doesn't. What you want is this (sorry for the line break) du -hx --exclude=/proc --exclude=/sys --exclude=/run --exclude=/dev --max-depth=1 / -- A military operation involves deception. Even though you are competent, appear to be incompetent. Though effective, appear to be ineffective. Sun-tzu, The Art of War. Strategic Assessments -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-05-16 00:47, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 05/15/2015 05:33 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

du -hsx --exclude=/proc --exclude=/sys --exclude=/run --exclude=/dev /*

That will tell you the sizes of all your directories sprouting from the root (not all possible mounts, though: for that, remove the 'x').

NO!

The "/*" will include "/home", just not things mounted on /home/

Exactly.

--max-depth=1 /

I have mounts 3 directories deep :-p - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlVWh8oACgkQja8UbcUWM1xxiwEAhEo5HIwOqq1hjs3p6mxpzkre F4J8d02LLLdjkt/WLUkA/3tL9tgxThnWRLNpMupTbipzb3tm3Ef7/y5T20X5aCuN =eYJO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/15/2015 05:45 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

...

...

I guess I could copy the contents of /home to one of my other machines, and completely reinstall everything (as a last resort). I believe the file systems are ext4. Can they be resized (make /home smaller and then make / bigger)?

They can, but it's not a process to be taken lightly. You might not be able to grow / without first creating more freespace.

This is the inherent problem with the fixed provisioning attitude we've had dumped on us, is implicit in the YAST defaults, and goes back to the early days of UNIX when a 10 MEG was considered large. Its archaic and ridiculous in the these days of >50G drives, never mind the 1T drives that are available for under $50. http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8988939&Sku=WED-102408284 That's $50 CANADIAN! http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=744346&CatId=139 or even http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=9751340&CatId=139 I am at a loss to understand why Yast does not recommend using LVM for drives over a certain threshold. Linux and UNIX before it has a long history of rogue processes consuming /tmp or many examples of rogue programs downloaded into /tmp being used to hack the system. The default in Yast should be, at the very least, to have a separate /tmp which is mounted noexec,nosuid and stickbit. Filling /tmp should NOT mean filling /. Filling /var/spool should NOT mean filling /. Filling /usr/tmp or /var/tmp should not mean filling /. Why oh why are we repeating the mistakes of the last century? -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-05-16 01:46, Felix Miata wrote:

Anton Aylward composed on 2015-05-15 18:35 (UTC-0400):

(LVM)

...

Why oh why are we repeating the mistakes of the last century?

If you seriously want an answer, a user help list is surely a worse than ideal place to ask. Try on yast-devel@opensuse.org . I suspect it's more likely about limited expertise and resources than attributes of the choices YaST offers, and/or the hopes and promises of btrfs. Could well be it's already on FATE. If not, maybe you should put it there.

Using LVM solves some problems, but it also adds complications. YaST would have to add modules to handle LVM and the resizing. Plus rescue ops... I have seen people that installed the system using LVM unawares, then having problems that impeded booting, and having to reformat the disk after asking for help because nobody who understood LVM was available to help the chap. Anybody who is proficient with LVM can set it up if he wishes. As many other things that can be done. But install LVM by default, and with several partitions? No. Keep the default as simple as possible. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlVWi30ACgkQja8UbcUWM1wwGAEAoKj+A24PRzC8l4sykeOu4ex+ BH36kGgfOKsYtoQz5TEBAJ8kBAfwaNqfFg/GqfTxXDP7o4ILRIqaP02BpAPBrAJv =N46f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/15/2015 08:12 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Using LVM solves some problems, but it also adds complications. YaST would have to add modules to handle LVM and the resizing. Plus rescue ops...

As I've pointed out, as the originator/documenter of Suse LVM, Michael Hasenstein pointed out, the Yast1 LVM GUI was much better than the YAST2 version :-( But that is a shortcoming of YAST2 not of LVM. As it happens I don't, never have, used to manage LVM. I always use the command line. And as I keep saying, if you don't try anything fancy like striping across multiple spindles, its straight forward and easy.

I have seen people that installed the system using LVM unawares, then having problems that impeded booting, and having to reformat the disk after asking for help because nobody who understood LVM was available to help the chap.

Don't make me laugh. You CAN"T install LVM "unawares". As we keep raising, its not a default. You HAVE to explicitly create it and all the LVs. Its not going to happen with the yast installer "just because....". As with so many things, if you go into it all blind and think you can hack your way around then expect things to go wrong, the unexpected to happen. If you don't approach in an informed manner, .... Well would you start C programming without learning the grammar? Hey, its not really like FORTRAN or PASCAL! And there is of course a "that was then, this is now" aspect. You mention booting. I use grub2 and know that some here think its wrong-headed and that LILO or grub1.x are the true God-Given ways to boot. Yes, but they won't allow /boot and / to be on a LV. And I've already mentioned that while, with grub2, /boot can be on a LV, that doesn't play well with the Rescue system DVD, so make it a physical partition. All this is not just Anton sounding off, there's a lot of up to date documentation on the 'net, easily available. Don't read the "old stuff" read the up to date stuff. So... Yes it used to be, but we changed all that. Wrote What's with this "proficient"? Perhaps you'd like to maintain that Ted is having this problem with / being full because he isn't proficient with fdisk? Well pardon me! I remember in the pre-Linux days, installing SCO UNIX on a machine a couple of times just to see how much space the system took, how much space there was if I set up separate /tmp, /usr/ and so on, so I could better provision for the database that was going to be installed, since it was the database, not the root FS, that would be growing! I experimented planned rather than just accepted what the vendor gave me.

As many other things that can be done. But install LVM by default, and with several partitions? No. Keep the default as simple as possible.

The "as simple as possible" attitude is a bit ... Well, hypocritical, considering we're using technology that is a long way removed from Babbage's Mill, even from the clear and discrete logic of the original 8086. Modern chips are so integrated, so complex, its mindboggling! The KISS would have us back at UNIX of the mid 1970s with the V6/V7 file system, and the simple internal table. K&R&gang made the point that there was no need for complex kernel algorithms if the proc table only had a few dozen entries; if the were only a few hundred files on the disk a couple of levels deep ... And so on. But we've long since left that simple as possible behind. Compared to managing a SSD, compared to the stuff needed to maintain a BtrFS system, compared to managing repositories (either with Zypper or Yast) setting up and managing a LVM and LVs *IS* simple! -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 16/05/2015 03:59, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

out, after asking, that they have to learn how to resize LVM and filesystems. And encrypted containers.

people listen too much rumors saying using computers is easy... it's not. my elder sister do not even know what is an application or a browser and was unable last week to send a scanned document (she managed to scan :-) we have simply to live with this... and she being at 800 km from me I couldn't fix the problem (and it was windows, I don't know what version, she was not even able to answer at this question :-) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-05-16 15:05, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 05/15/2015 09:59 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

You really want to argue both sides as seems fit. On the one hand the installer is too complicated with all its options for idiots to use and they use the defaults because they don't know any better, and on the other the idiots are going to go for a complex installation with sophisticated, non-standard, far from default settings.

No, I'm trying to explain how people can end using LVM without even knowing they are. Full encryption of the system is something laptop owners do, and YaST makes that offer. It is very easy to do, automatic. Try :-) Believe me, I have seen several people pop up questions on forums with crashed systems, and on investigation (ie, telling them to post fdisk - -l output), we discovered they had LVM. They had no idea that they did, nor how they did it. Just that their systems no longer booted.

A novice asking for full encryption, seeing it requires LVM ... Perhaps what qualifies him for the Award is not stopping and asking "Hey? What's LVM"?'

They do not need to know. Believe me, I have seen novices do it first time they come to openSUSE. Some after using Ubuntu. It is an option in YaST. Just click click click.

But the GUI is like ... Well most people understand cars and can drive and understand steering wheel and the gas pedal. This makes them think they can drive anything with a wheel in each corner and a steering wheel! That isn't so. 80% of the people I know here in Canada can't drive a shift. Of those that can, I think only a couple even know how to drive a shift that doesn't have have synchronizes,

I do :-) [Off topic start] The most historically popular car in Spain, the first my father had, was "the 600" (the Spanish version of the fiat 600). The 1st gear was not synchronized. As a kid I remember reading in a magazine that people going from 2nd to 1st had often to full brake the car and start again, and the magazine explained what to do instead. Much later, when I learned to drive, I learned the trick for reducing a gear with double shift: my car gears were hard to change, and the trick, even when nominally unnecessary, worked. Recently I was shopping for a car. One of the gadgets they offered me (no automatic gear) was a delayed brake-shift operation, when on a back slope: think release the brake, the same foot goes to the accelerator, and if you are not fast enough, the car starts sliding backwards. The traditional trick is to handle the shift pedal (left foot), brake-accelerator (right foot), and hand (parking) brake, simultaneously. Many people can't handle that (I can). Think parking on a slope (and Spain is hilly), and you have to add the steering wheel on your remaining hand. Well, new cars just delay the foot break release till you press the accelerator a second later, automatically. New times! [Off topic end]

Certainly I know that if I want to do this I can, and I can make ALL of a disk a single LVM store. The idea that you only get a 30G FS on an encrypted LV using LVM on a much larger disk has NOTHING to do with LVM. It may be built into the GUI, in which case blame yast, once again. It may be that the user set the 30G limit or it may be that the real "idiot" is in the GUI designer "assuming" no-one would want a encrypted FS bigger than that.

Based on the information Carlos gives, we can't tell.

I have not done fully encrypted systems that way (I do not like LVM), so I can't give you personal details of how it is made. I assume it is documented in the book. What I do know is that the defaults do not encrypt the entire disk, but only a smallish portion, because I have seen some people pop up with that problem in forums or mail lists.

But there is a lot of myth and assumption in the arguments people are making against LVM. That I speak at length countering them is because I'm making things very explicit.

I believe that LVM is good, but I'm against using it unless you fully understand it. I don't, so I don't use it. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF0EAREIAAYFAlVX61IACgkQja8UbcUWM1yDBgD4lHAnuDbl27ndgwzBUalWZCpF l9DEZ5DPMkwt+rsPOgD/fmIVtcDRAWd6RUq6wCAd5B/b/+XB9nmj4i3o7FRYeK4= =R4A3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org