Am Montag, 1. Januar 2007 22:38 schrieb Pascal Bleser:

...

error: file /usr/lib/libmad.so.0.2.1 from install of mad-0.15.1b-1.pm.3 conflicts with file from package libmad-0.15.1b-2.0

Remove that libmad RPM that wasn't made for SUSE and let smart install the mad package from Packman instead.

before you do, post the output of "rpm -qi libmad" here, ok? bye, MH -- gpg key fingerprint: 5F64 4C92 9B77 DE37 D184 C5F9 B013 44E7 27BD 763C -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 1/1/07, Pascal Bleser wrote:

Where did you get "lidmad" from ? That's definitely not an RPM for SUSE Linux.

As far as I could see it came from VLC player. Their repository for SuSE 10.2 is http://download.videolan.org/pub/vlc/0.8.6/SuSE/10.2/i586 There is libmad-0.15.1b-2.0.i586.rpm there. This is it's "info" (and the same is printed out by rpm -qi libmad): NAME: libmad VERSION: 0.15.1b RELEASE: 2.0 SUMMARY: a high-quality MPEG audio decoder capable of 24-bit output DISTRIBUTION: VENDOR: LICENSE: GPL PACKAGER: Dominique Leuenberger GROUP: System/Libraries OS: linux ARCH: i586 SOURCE RPM: libmad-0.15.1b-2.0.src.rpm DESCRIPTION: libMAD is a high-quality MPEG audio decoder capable of 24-bit output. It looks like YaST somehow understands that it's the same library. I saw that kb3 (from PackMan) also needs that library. I installed it with YaST and have not got any conflict indication. To check this I selected this amarok-1.4.4-108.guru.suse102@i686 in YaST, and yes, it installed it without complaining. Now I see both mad and libmad packages. I guess it could be dangerous in some situations. But I do like that YaST allows user to decide how to resolve the conflict. I thought there could be such option in Smart, but could not find it. -- Mark Goldstein -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 1/2/07, Basil Chupin wrote:

I think I also had a similar problem with something connected with amarok or at least something I downloaded from videolan.org and raised the query about my problem in the smart mail list. After I received the answer to my query I deleted the RPM I got from videolan.org and the problem disappeared.

Thnx, that's what I'll do (I also think I'll remove videolan from installation sources, since I found out that vlc rpm is on packman as well.) -- Mark Goldstein -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 1/2/07, Janne Karhunen wrote:

On Monday 01 January 2007 21:55, Mark Goldstein wrote:

I have been wondering if package managers as we know them today can never be proper solution to software installation. If people are to use it, it needs to be better and easier than 'setup.exe'.

Personally I do not like "setup.exe" style. First, I always disable autoexec, because I hate when something starts working out of my control. I do not like it because it's hard to know what it writes and where to. Some installations are better and ask me what I want (well, not always they do what I've chosen). I prefer tool that can do stuff quickly and without too much user intervention, but also allows user full control if she/he wants.

Is it really possible to perfectly hide overly complex package dependencies with complex tools around it? It doesn't seem that way yet. Package managers have been 'almost there' for a decade now.

I was quite comfortable with primitive tools in Slackware (based on classical tar/gz/bz2), but I also liked YaST before it was broken in 10.1. I do not think it is possible to fully automate this process (there will always be situations like that one). -- Mark Goldstein -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 02 January 2007 08:53, Janne Karhunen wrote:

While this can be made as such with package managers as well, there still are way too many things that user has to know and/or that can break.

The problem is that ends like in proprietary solutions with marketing department involved dictating every aspect of design, even technical part, adjusting everything to majority of users. Every human activity involves some learning, and using package manager is not really very sophisticated. If someone has problem with that, there is known solution that works even without click. Just put CD in drive and wait. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 02 January 2007 13:35, Janne Karhunen wrote:

You need to know quite a bit - mainly which package solves which problem.

Agree. This is the problem, and since AJ introduced patterns there is obviously will to change something, but I thinks that the closest grouping that is answer on the problem already existed before as Package Groups. But, there is old saying that points to actually problem: "In order to ask the right question one has to know part of the answer." If one has no clue how to solve some real world problem, there is no way to present him softare that solves problem. Words that you have to use describing some software are professional jargon. Professional jargon is not invented to mystify knowledge, but to speed up communication. It is pure efficiency issue. While it is possible to communicate some ideas with simple expressins, for their full transfer it is impossible to skip special expressions used in trade. What is actually school about? It is long string of lessons how to express yourself efficiently. For instance, Ohm's Law. There is at least 45 minutes lesson about it. How to talk about electricity and include ideas behind Ohm's Law, without mention this two words. That expression is included in some more sophisticated definitions, and so on. You end up using words that no one except your trade can understand, but you can't skip them. When advocating simplicity you have to define what level of education your public have. Simple for expert, practicing trade for 10 years, or simple for first grader.

Videos do not play, browser plugins do not work, etc. I'm amazed how things like this can be overlooked in a system that is supposed to be desktop ready :/

This is really completely different pair of shoes. First, multimedia is not the only desktop task, and IMHO it is not the task that we need computer for. Repeating that it is not desktop ready because it is not able to play mp3 audio, sounds to me strange. Computer is not and will never be main entertainment source for majority of population. How much effort and learning is necessary to listen mp3 music comparing to radio and any other device that are developed just for that purpose. My radio is fully automatic, expert driven, cheap etc, entertainment machine. It is very simple to use. All I have to know about is how to turn it on, find the station and set a volume. I don't need computer to listen a music (and similar for video). For the tasks where radio isn't the best choice, for instance calculations, I need computer, but Linux was ready for that long time ago. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Kai Ponte wrote:

On Tuesday 02 January 2007 05:58, Janne Karhunen wrote:

...

On Monday 01 January 2007 21:55, Mark Goldstein wrote:

...

I've installed smart (smart-0.49.1-40.guru.suse102) and almost immediately bumped into the following situation: it indicates that there is upgrade for amarok but fails to perform upgrade: I have been wondering if package managers as we know them today can never be proper solution to software installation. If people are to use it, it needs to be better and easier than 'setup.exe'.

Is it really possible to perfectly hide overly complex package dependencies with complex tools around it? It doesn't seem that way yet. Package managers have been 'almost there' for a decade now.

IMO, don't use dependencies.

If you're program/application requires a dependency, then provide it in the package. You can easily write an installation routine to check if the required libraries are present and then install them in a sub-folder of your application if they're not.

Now that's a very bad idea ;) One of the advantages of separating libraries etc... and having dependencies is also security. Imagine you bundle each dependency in each package (or installer, etc..., you don't need packages if you don't have to manage dependencies) and that you have, say, libpng.so.3 bundled in 500-600 bundles. Now there's a security issue with libpng and it has to be fixed. With the current system, you get a patched libpng.so.3 and you're done, the security issue is fixed in every application that uses libpng. But what about your bundled applications ? You'd have to update 500-600 of those. We should never corrupt Linux down to an insecure, messy and unstable system like Windows just because some people don't like those package systems with dependencies.

I'm still not quite sure where SUSE stores programs - it seems some are in /etc/bin, others in /usr/bin and still others in /opt/kde3/bin.

http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html http://www.novell.com/documentation/opensuse102/opensuse102_startup/data/sec... cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFnNi5r3NMWliFcXcRAvj2AJsHx01IQAH1eJhE7KRfJ6Cy7NQM+wCgqUwB ZCz0izi2qO8/94259mIejwM= =t03K -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org