Bla... It's getting boring.

The sources are and were *always* linked from here:

http://download.opensuse.org/

This is the very primary download site. ========= Yes it is, but how many places at that location do you see anything mentioned about sources being available, so they are easily found? Just because you know, doesn't mean everyone will Andreas. If a new user goes there, what are they suppose to do, flip page after page until they see one hotlink? I'm just saying there should be more mention of it and a link from the main page to both describe what

On Sunday 13 August 2006 16:43, Andreas Hanke wrote: sources are and links to them. Certainly not a GPL requirement, but would be rather convenient and go to show Novell/SuSE is interested in maintaining a good Linux distro.

And now you need the sources of libgimpprint, so you execute this in a terminal:

rpm -qi libgimpprint

Result:

Name : libgimpprint Relocations: (not relocatable) Version : 4.2.7 Vendor: SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Nuernberg, Germany Release : 62 Build Date: Di 02 Mai 2006 09:53:19 CEST Install Date: Do 22 Jun 2006 19:10:56 CEST Build Host: zenworks.suse.de Group : Development/Libraries/C and C++ Source RPM: ghostscript-library-8.15.2rc1-20.src.rpm Size : 2538725 License: GPL, Other License(s), see package Signature : DSA/SHA1, Di 02 Mai 2006 10:04:28 CEST, Key ID a84edae89c800aca Packager : http://bugs.opensuse.org URL : http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/ Summary : Gimp-Print libraries Description : Libraries to print with The GIMP

Authors: -------- Robert Krawitz Distribution: SUSE LINUX 10.1 (i586)

And now you know that the source package of libgimpprint is ghostscript-library-8.15.2rc1-20.src.rpm, which you will find here:

http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/SL-10.1/inst-source/suse/sr c/ghostscript-library-8.15.2rc1-20.src.rpm

Please learn how to use rpm before accusing a company that contributed so much software under the GPL of a GPL violation.

============= No need to get rude here. You guys know as well as I do that Novell's handling of many things have not been top notch. If we don't complain, nobody is going to know that things need to be corrected. Thanks for the help, but remember in my mail, which both you and Henne conveniently left out of your replies, I thought it might be included with another package, but I hadn't dug that deeply yet. The mail wasn't about libgimpprint sources as much as the sources themselves, thank you very much! Now back to our regularly scheduled programming. Lee

Just a little hint: There is a very handy script called "yumdownloader" in the "yum-utils" package. It is able to download source RPMs with a single command:

yumdownloader --source libgimpprint

A minimal yum setup is needed and then you can easily download source RPMs without knowing the exact location.

Andreas Hanke ========== And thanks again for the YUM hint. Is this bit of info in the manual

On Sunday 13 August 2006 17:46, Andreas Hanke wrote: [...] that comes in the box or somewhere else conveniently located and easy to find? Not trying to be a wise guy, just asking? Also, neither of you guys answered another question. Are all the sources to all the binaries available on the box DVD, available on those sites? I assume they are, but have not done a comparison. regards, Lee

Hi, On Sunday, August 13, 2006 at 17:50:51, BandiPat wrote:

On Sunday 13 August 2006 16:57, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

...

Does Novell not want us to know about the source files? Why the seemingly secrecy and general lack of info about the sources?

So because you cant find the right source RPM the evil Novell is hiding it. Nice logic ;)

You miss the whole point! Logically, there should be as much mention of source files as of anything else.

Sources are as prominently linked as binary files. Where is the problem? They are present, they are not hidden and in fact they are handled as everything else.

...

...

A lot of changes with Novell's purchase, some have me worried.

Heh i love that. Blame it on Novell. Those evil bastards hid the libgimpprint source. I bet Ron Hovsepian personally thought of that evil trick to let libgimpprint come out of ghostscript-library!

Loving it is not going to fix it. If you continue to wax over the little points, pretty soon a lot of big ones will show up as well. Will you still be loving it then or one of the users yelling the loudest?

There is no problem so there is no need to yell. Thats the problem i have with your mail :) You yell without a problem and point your finger at Novell. I dont like that. Come back with something real to yell about and im with you. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, http://hennevogel.de "To die. In the rain. Alone." Ernest Hemingway

Hi, On Mon, 14 Aug 2006, Martin Schröder wrote:

2006/8/14, Henne Vogelsang :

...

Sources are as prominently linked as binary files. Where is the problem? They are present, they are not hidden and in fact they are handled as everything else.

Looking at http://en.opensuse.org/Released_Version#Downloads_SUSE_Linux_10.1, the link for sources could be two lines up or more prominent.

It seems a new generation of terrorists gets born here. They use the GPL just like the others the Koran. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)

Hi, On Mon, 14 Aug 2006, Martin Schröder wrote:

2006/8/14, Eberhard Moenkeberg :

...

It seems a new generation of terrorists gets born here. They use the GPL just like the others the Koran.

Godwin :-(

No need to address me personally additionally, please. If our list moderator does not sniff what the wind blows, we need some more intelligence/awareness at the users. So please comply, or some RFC will get drawn against you. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)

* Eberhard Moenkeberg [08-13-06 21:15]:

...

So please comply, or some RFC will get drawn against you.

Why did this not appear at the list?

Moderator Henne, are you acting as a censor?

Humm, do you have a client problem?? I saw it: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 01:33:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Eberhard Moenkeberg To: Martin Schröder Cc: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] Sources, revisited In-Reply-To: <68c491a60608131624l665ad5faxe94bf74e6e089c98@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <200608131637.52795.penguin0601@earthlink.net> <20060813205721.GZ29611@hennevogel.de> <200608131750.51994.penguin0601@earthlink.net> <20060813223029.GB29611@hennevogel.de> <68c491a60608131533j6a8596d2uf4e4cbe0e2e05904@mail.gmail.com> <68c491a60608131624l665ad5faxe94bf74e6e089c98@mail.gmail.com> Precedence: bulk Mailing-List: contact opensuse-help@opensuse.org; run by mlmmj X-Mailinglist: opensuse On Mon, 14 Aug 2006, Martin Schröder wrote:

2006/8/14, Eberhard Moenkeberg :

...

It seems a new generation of terrorists gets born here. They use the GPL just like the others the Koran.

Godwin :-(

No need to address me personally additionally, please. If our list moderator does not sniff what the wind blows, we need some more intelligence/awareness at the users. So please comply, or some RFC will get drawn against you. .... it *was* here, no censorship! -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2

Hi, On Monday, August 14, 2006 at 03:57:34, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

This is such a shit, installed in a dictatorship manner, that I will not tolerate. Meaning a simple GOODBYE, because I can't shoot our glorious moderator child playing the dictator.

Because i dont decide like you want the decision to be, im a child that decides in a dictatorship manner? Get real Eberhard and stop flaming like a 5 year old. There is a decision to make. Do we want Reply-To set to the list or not. We discussed this. There are arguments against it and arguments for it. I heard all of them and based on them i make a decision. If i would behave like you say we wouldnt have had this discussion at all. What do you want me to do? Except of course only listen to you personally and let you personally decide. I got that part. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, Core Services "Rules change. The Game remains the same." - Omar (The Wire) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Mon, 14 Aug 2006, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

What do you want me to do? Except of course only listen to you personally and let you personally decide. I got that part.

Just add back the Reply-To header line. It helps in 99.9%, and it does no harm for the remaining 0.1%. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Mon, 14 Aug 2006, Bernhard Walle wrote:

Eberhard Moenkeberg [2006-08-14]:

...

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

...

What do you want me to do? Except of course only listen to you personally and let you personally decide. I got that part.

Just add back the Reply-To header line.

It helps in 99.9%, and it does no harm for the remaining 0.1%.

Well, I think we had the current setup (no reply to) for over five years in *@suse.com and it worked. In these times, only Mutt had support for list reply (from the "well-known" mailers).

Now, where KMail and even Mozilla Thunderbird and Seamonkey have support for it (and Sylpheed Claws, but that's not well-known) should we change?

Should we really take care of Outlook and Outlook Express mailers in a Linux mailing list? I think no.

It does not work with pine. Again:

...

It helps in 99.9%, and it does no harm for the remaining 0.1%.

Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hello, Tilman Vogel [2006-08-14]:

Bernhard Walle schrieb:

...

Now, where KMail and even Mozilla Thunderbird and Seamonkey have support for it (and Sylpheed Claws, but that's not well-known) should we change?

Ok, I am using Mozilla Thunderbird Version 1.5.0.5 (20060725). Could you please elaborate on how I can get around the following procedure in order to get decent replying behaviour?

1) Click "reply all" 2) Remove "To: Bernhard Walle " 3) Change "CC: opensuse@opensuse.org" to "To: opensuse@opensuse.org"

With the "Reply-To" method, I just click on reply and everything works as desired.

Get the lastest Thunderbird RPMs from ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/mozilla/experimental/10.1 and install the extension at http://open.nit.ca/wiki/index.php?page=ReplyToListThunderbirdExtension&7. See also http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.suse.opensuse.devel/3416. Regards, Bernhard -- Das Leben ist nur ein Moment, der Tod ist auch nur einer. -- Schiller --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hello, Tilman Vogel [2006-08-14]:

Bernhard Walle schrieb:

...

Get the lastest Thunderbird RPMs from ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/mozilla/experimental/10.1 and install the extension at http://open.nit.ca/wiki/index.php?page=ReplyToListThunderbirdExtension&7.

See also http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.suse.opensuse.devel/3416.

Thanks for the hints, I'll look at it. Good to know also for all the other lists who drive on the wrong side of the road ;-)

On the other hand: What's the main advantage of _not_ having Reply-To? Never understood it...

You can reply to the poster without manually edit the receiver. Regards, Bernhard -- Das Wichtigste im Leben ist die Wahl des Berufes. Der Zufall entscheidet darüber. -- Blaise Pascal (1623 - 1662) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bernhard Walle schrieb:

Tilman Vogel [2006-08-14]:

...

On the other hand: What's the main advantage of _not_ having Reply-To? Never understood it...

You can reply to the poster without manually edit the receiver.

As a Thunderbird user I can only say: Click on the From line, choose "compose to", you're done. No extension required. Personal opinion: MUAs that don't offer such functionality are b0rken. Ok, I'll shut up now. Cheers, Tilman -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE4Nss9ZPu6Yae8lkRAuSSAKCA07XTnvJFeBFoetkQoasrWzqrAwCeJW4v Na9sx3+41glWeprzD0ERzLY= =8+8d -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Monday, August 14, 2006 at 20:26:53, Tilman Vogel wrote:

On the other hand: What's the main advantage of _not_ having Reply-To?

I would say that you dont restrict people on using reply-to. There is only one reply-to possible in a mail and if the list sets it, you cant. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, http://hennevogel.de "To die. In the rain. Alone." Ernest Hemingway --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2006-08-15 at 12:57 +0200, jdd wrote:

Tilman Vogel a écrit :

...

Ok, I am using Mozilla Thunderbird Version 1.5.0.5 (20060725). Could you please elaborate on how I can get around the following procedure in order to get decent replying behaviour?

1) Click "reply all" 2) Remove "To: Bernhard Walle " 3) Change "CC: opensuse@opensuse.org" to "To: opensuse@opensuse.org"

just to note than:

* the 3) is not necessary, the mail with a "cc" and without "to" is sent without problem (at least on seamonkey)

* the 2) is often recommanded, but having from time to time to delete one more mail is a thing I can live with

so, think to always hit "reply to all" on any list you use... and your mail will always be received

????????????????????????????? I'm on three suse lists that generate over 200 emails a day and now you want me to receive over 400 because your email client does not work correctly. This is just plain stupid. Use a client that works with lists. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Tue, 15 Aug 2006, jdd wrote:

Kenneth Schneider a écrit :

...

I'm on three suse lists that generate over 200 emails a day and now you want me to receive over 400 because your email client does not work correctly. This is just plain stupid. Use a client that works with lists.

you wont receive _all_ the mails twice. only the ones that answers one of your own post

From that moment on you will receive the whole thread twice. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)

Hi, On Tue, 15 Aug 2006, jdd wrote:

Eberhard Moenkeberg a écrit :

...

From that moment on you will receive the whole thread twice.

of course not. anybody can see this (or did you subscribe twice on two different adresses?)

You do not know what you are speaking about. I have just gone through such a matter in suse-sles-e, with a lengthy thread which since long did no more interest me, but some of the posters again and again did the default reply. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)

Hi, On Tue, 15 Aug 2006, jdd wrote:

Eberhard Moenkeberg a écrit :

...

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006, jdd wrote:

...

Eberhard Moenkeberg a écrit :

...

...

...

From that moment on you will receive the whole thread twice.

...

of course not. anybody can see this (or did you subscribe twice on two different adresses?)

You do not know what you are speaking about.

yes I do :-) and I receive your message only once :-) (as most of the thread messages)

jdd (receive ~ 400 mails a day...)

You have a special kind of childishness. Something between stupid and nasty. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)

Hi, On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Karl Eichwalder wrote:

Eberhard Moenkeberg writes:

...

You do not know what you are speaking about. I have just gone through such a matter in suse-sles-e, with a lengthy thread which since long did no more interest me, but some of the posters again and again did the default reply.

Add "Mail-Copies-To: never" to your message header and hope the best. At least, Gnus honors this setting.

With a list server attached "Reply-To", _NOT_ANY_ handcrafting would be necessary _ANYWHERE_.

BTW, I appreciate the removal of the Reply-To setting--but I do not vote.

Please tell me a practical reason... I do not see anything else than a chance for posters to use "split addresses", i.e. to direct list answers away from the list. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

[...]

With a list server attached "Reply-To", _NOT_ANY_ handcrafting would be necessary _ANYWHERE_.

This is plain wrong. If there is a reply-to set by the server, the email will always go back to the list whether I use the "Reply" or "List Reply" functionality. So I need to edit the address field if I want to send a private answer (and yes, this happens quite often). If I use the "Reply All" functionality, I need to edit the address field as well in this case because I have to remove the list address. I definitely call this "handcrafting" and it disproves your statement cited above. On the other hand, if the server does *not* insert a reply-to, then there is really no handcraft necessary. I can use "Reply" to send a private message only, I can use "List Reply" to send my email to the list, and I can use "Reply All" to send a private email with a CC: to the list. Perfect! Now you ask everybody who uses a list reply to give up this functionality just because you want it in a different way? That's a bit odd... Cheers, Th. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

2006/8/16, Eberhard Moenkeberg :

Yes! Remember, you are communicating through a mailing list server! The list is the default goal!

Are you _sure_ that you want all your flaming and vitriol on the list? I for sure don't. Best Martin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 16 August 2006 22:13, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

Hi,

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Martin Schröder wrote:

...

2006/8/16, Eberhard Moenkeberg :

...

Yes! Remember, you are communicating through a mailing list server! The list is the default goal!

Are you _sure_ that you want all your flaming and vitriol on the list? I for sure don't.

Fuck off if you have no rational contributions.

Very classy reply. Really, really class. You must be proud of the volume of shite you're causing.

I feel it a pain that some of us think they have to argue during the voting phase.

But you have to understand, I feel the need to kick any ass which is levering against my face.

Don't worry, I wouldn't dare put my ass against your face. Your attitude sucks, and thats probably not all.....

And you should have understood that before you replied - so what is your real intention to piss me at the knee here?

Cheers -e

I have a two year old and a four year old boy as sons. I see better behaviour from them than I see from you. Grow up, then come back and talk to us. This discussion is getting way too stupid. Can I vote to disregard everyone and allow Henne to decide the policy he wants on the list? Everyone else can just learn how to post regardless of how the bloody headers are set. It's not really that important. Not really. Think about it. Seriously, this is stupid and unconstructive. Eberhard, go away and relieve your too obvious tension however feel you need to. It's an email list, not The Rapture. I will cope with whatever the list does, somehow. If this means I change what key I press to reply to a private post or a list post, I'm sure my brain will handle it. Everyone who can't perform a 'reset' on an email list probably shouldn't be on it. Darwin and all that. This discussion is getting stupid now, there are more important things to discuss. Cheers Pete --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 17/08/06 01:17 +0200, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Pete Connolly wrote:

...

On Wednesday 16 August 2006 22:13, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

...

But you have to understand, I feel the need to kick any ass which is levering against my face.

Don't worry, I wouldn't dare put my ass against your face. Your attitude sucks, and thats probably not all.....

This is indeed a very strong argument for the missing "Reply-To".

Indeed! Fact is, this is not really an issue worth getting heated over (n.b. the number of "don't care" responses to the list), so could we all just wait (im)patiently for the results and let normal service resume? One way or the other, advocates from one of the factions is going to have to perform a little extra work to send the messages to the intended recipient. The poor diddums. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 23:13:07 +0200 (CEST), Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

Fuck off if you have no rational contributions.

I feel it a pain that some of us think they have to argue during the voting phase.

That does it: PLONK Philipp --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Thomas Hertweck wrote:

Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

...

[...] You are wrong.

I have *arguments*. You have *opinions*.

...

[...] Yes! Remember, you are communicating through a mailing list server! The list is the default goal!

This is your opinion.

This is crazy. You are arguing like a child which has pissed into a public sand box. No chance. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

* Jan Engelhardt [08-16-06 10:04]:

Of course you get it twice. I bet you are not subscribed to LKML where this happens _any time_. As soon as you replied, your address will rest in the Cc forever until someone takes it out manually (or hopefully the thread dies some time). And of course, linux-kernel@ is also in the Cc or To field, ergo, you get it twice. Yes, there are some occasions when you only get one mail: when an MTA is able to figure out that you are listed twice, e.g.:

From: jengelh@linux01 To: jengelh@linux01 Cc: jengelh@linux01 Subject: blubb

I will only get this mail once. But the MTA of Mr. Anonymous User does not know that the linux-kernel@ (or opensuse, or whatever) address contains myself too.

me 2, once :^) # ------------------------------------------------------- LOCKFILE = msgid.cache.lock :0 Whc: msgid.lock | $FORMAIL -D 8192 msgid.cache LOCKFILE ### save duplicates in case of error #:0 a: #$MAILDIR/duplicates # no errors in > 1 year, -> bit_bucket :0 a: /dev/null # ------------------------------------------------------- -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

...

Of course you get it twice. I bet you are not subscribed to LKML where this happens _any time_. As soon as you replied, your address will rest in the Cc forever until someone takes it out manually

well... most users remove the unwanted adress, as I do and so I do _not_ receive the mails twice with seamonkey without any tweeking (except yours and eberhart's :-()

From: jdd Cc: opensuse@opensuse.org (r)eply, Reply to all recipients Yes => to: jdd, cc: opensuse No => to: jdd Simple, two mails. No? Now, if a Reply-To header was present, pine would do sth like "Use Reply-To or not?" and, in case I said yes, only do to: <reply-to-addr> Therefore, reply-to is some people's preferred thing. In case you want the to/cc one, one would just need to say 'no' to 'use reply-to'. Jan Engelhardt -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Tue, 15 Aug 2006, jdd wrote:

Notice this: if somebody answer to the list & the personal adress and _you_ try to answer to his message, you end up with _three_ adresses, the original one, the sender one and the list one. so it's really better, when you answer, to remove the unwanted adresses

You must have gone crazy thinking I need you to tell me that... I have voted for "add Reply-To" - guess why until you fall into dust. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kenneth Schneider a écrit :

I do see your point now but

I don't think so. the eberhart post make me feel there is more than the reply-to problem. if he receives twice _all_ the posts of the thread, this is _not_ a reply-to problem... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Eberhard Moenkeberg a écrit :

Hi,

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006, jdd wrote:

...

Kenneth Schneider a écrit :

...

...

I do see your point now but

I don't think so.

the eberhart post make me feel there is more than the reply-to problem.

if he receives twice _all_ the posts of the thread, this is _not_ a reply-to problem...

You should read more carefully if you like to answer as much as you like...

Almost all. From the moment on when you have posted and somebody answers without editing the headers, just like this post.

Cheers -e well. usually I remove the private adress when relpying (but I can forgot sometimes)

actually, if somebody hit "reply all" and do not remove the unwanted adresses, these adresses are stacked, that is the mail can be sent to much more than two recipient however it's difficult to do this without noticing it (and I suppose you know that, but many on this list don't seems to know, as they keep sending multiple messages) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Martin Schröder schrieb:

Looking at http://en.opensuse.org/Released_Version#Downloads_SUSE_Linux_10.1, the link for sources could be two lines up or more prominent.

LOL! You made my day. This is sooo ridiculous. The link which is two lines up compared to the sources link is the direct parent directory of the sources directory with a subdirectory named "src" in it, which is - surprise, surprise - the sources directory. And now the next great proposal will be that "src" is too hard to figure out, I guess. And the proposal will of course be made by a person who has no clue that the binary RPMs and source RPMs are in fact a single repository. Nice comedy. ;-)

Hi, BandiPat schrieb:

You miss the whole point! Logically, there should be as much mention of source files as of anything else. Logically, according to the GPL, source files are equally if not more important than binaries.

Are you now going to set up rules how the sources availability must be presented? Why? Are the sources easier to find on www.mozilla.com or www.openoffice.org or www.ubuntu.com? No, the other way round: They are easier to find on opensuse.org than on any other comparable project's site. I am still unable to find ANY place on opensuse.org that links to binaries and not to sources, but I am able to find many such places on ubuntu.com. What you are asking for is a ridiculous over-interpretation of the GPL. Finding the binaries on opensuse.org, but not finding the sources is impossible, period.

Novell needs to realize they are dealing with open source software now.

*sigh* I don't know your imagination of Novell, but I do know that most Novell people involved with opensuse.org have @suse.de mail addresses and know exactly how to deal with open source software because they have been dealing with open source software for AGES.

Maybe they'll eventually get it right, maybe they won't, but one thing sure, they do need to fix some things.

There is nothing to be fixed about sources availability. No problem => Nothing to be fixed. It's really a non-issue. Non-issues like this one are the typical result of fake GPL violation claims like the recent one on Groklaw: They multiply themselves infinitely. Just stop it. Andreas Hanke

Hi, On Sun, 13 Aug 2006, BandiPat wrote:

On Sunday 13 August 2006 18:30, Andreas Hanke wrote:

[...]

...

There is nothing to be fixed about sources availability. No problem => Nothing to be fixed. It's really a non-issue.

Non-issues like this one are the typical result of fake GPL violation claims like the recent one on Groklaw: They multiply themselves infinitely. Just stop it.

Andreas Hanke ===========

You can blame that if you like, but I suspect it only played a small part in renewing the issues many of us have had for a while with source files & SUSE, Andreas.

If you guys arguing want to ignore it, that's fine. We can agree to disagree. No new rules need to be made for anything. I would just like there to be things made simpler, more obvious to all users. Linux has to get that way and the programs as well or it will continue to be viewed as a geek hobbyist OS.

But the absolute deadline is this: Serving fools just creates a new fool. Some realize it early enough, some start foolishing themselves before. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)

On Sunday 13 August 2006 19:39, Andreas Hanke wrote: [...]

What does the presentation of the sources have to do with hobbyism? I tend to find the current solution very nice and very professional: The information the vast majority of users is interested in (the ISOs) is presented with icons and the rest (the binary and source repositories, which are in fact a single repository) as text links. It's perfect as-is.

---------- Andreas, I can see how you would think this. Clueless, totally clueless. qué será será adios Lee

Am Sonntag, 13. August 2006 23:50 schrieb BandiPat:

On Sunday 13 August 2006 16:57, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

You miss the whole point! Logically, there should be as much mention of source files as of anything else. Logically, according to the GPL, source files are equally if not more important than binaries. If any logic had been used, sources wouldn't be so difficult to find from the box or from the sites.

I don't get your point, I just picked up the box the CD's and DVD came in, took less than a couple of seconds to spot the URL for the sources printed on the box. Likewise, just gone to the Download page, under the list of ISO and Torrents for downloading is the word "Sources"... I mean, what is there so obfuscated or hard to locate? Short of the web page automatically redirecting you to the Sources ftp server when you open the page, and having to click the "Stop" button on your web browser to stay on the page and download the binaries, I can't see how it could be made any easier...

...

...

A lot of changes with Novell's purchase, some have me worried.

Heh i love that. Blame it on Novell. Those evil bastards hid the libgimpprint source. I bet Ron Hovsepian personally thought of that evil trick to let libgimpprint come out of ghostscript-library!

Henne

========== Loving it is not going to fix it. If you continue to wax over the little points, pretty soon a lot of big ones will show up as well. Will you still be loving it then or one of the users yelling the loudest? Novell needs to realize they are dealing with open source software now. Maybe they'll eventually get it right, maybe they won't, but one thing sure, they do need to fix some things.

You seem to be making a mountain out of a grain of sand here. I mean, still being within the guidelines of the GPL, Novell could be charging you for access to the sources, instead of that, they are putting the URL on the outside of the packaging and having the links on the pages where they offer links to the binaries as well... -- David Wright Wright Information Services Europa "I got to go figure," the tenant said. "We all got to figure. There's some way to stop this. It's not like lightning or earthquakes. We've got a bad thing made by men, and by God that's something we can change." - The Grapes of Wrath, by John Steinbeck --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

jdd wrote:

BandiPat a écrit :

...

Does Novell not want us to know about the source files?

I'm surpriseds that in all that thread nobody quoted that this is a wiki and anybody is free to write a special page about sources with all that stuff.

do it, please, and don't blame Novell if it's not done, Novell is _not_ the author of the wiki...

jdd

:-) There are many reasons, than much more energy is used to write all this discussions, than few simple words on wiki. The story behind posting that complains about missing sources is not how to find sources, but how to prove that is hard to find them. The answers are just what someone needs, and pushes further repeating nonsense, to see more different answers. I would quit helping them. -- Regards, Rajko. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org