[opensuse] KDE devs [ Classic (3.5) & 4 ] Great Job, Both Desktop Interfaces Look Great... Much Improved

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[opensuse] I did it again... Found...

David C. Rankin

27 Jan 2010 27 Jan '10

19:23

Devs, Just dropping a note to say great job with both KDE Classic (3.5.10-51) and KDE 4.3.95 (44beta). KDE Classic is near flawless and KDE4 is much improved between 4.3.4 and 4.4 beta (from Factory). From a user prospective, it is obvious that a great amount of effort has been directed to both desktops and it is much appreciated. The striking difference in 44beta is the actual addition of kde4 tools (like the "Add Widget" drag&drop implementation, etc..) which for the first time look like what must have been envisioned when kde4 was conceived, but were not completed or ready for release until now. As more of the kde4 features are implemented, the 'vision' of what kde4 will be becomes clearer and why kde4 behaves in certain ways now makes more sense -- much of which has been indiscernible to date. There is some cool stuff here. There are a couple of regressions of note: (1) File 'Save/Save As' behavior for jpg files has regressed to jpeg. Following the bugzilla discussions, the plan was to have the 'save/save as' dialog default to saving a '.jpg' to prevent the conflict and incompatibility with the billions of existing .jpg files. 4.3.4 had corrected this. 4.3.95 has regressed to defaulting to .jpg. What's the story? (2) plasmoids for cpu & network monitors - still no way to set graph color (Anders, I know you told me how this works, but I cannot get it to work in 4.3.95 at all). (3) plasmoids for cpu & network monitors - graph lines disappear on widget resize and there is no way to get them back. Not monumental by any stretch, but they need to be fixed as 44beta moves forward. All in all, 4.3.95 is a good step forward for kde4 and the look and feel clearly show a great deal of work has been done on the desktop. It is a great daily driver and for anyone running 11.0+, the install is as simple as adding the following 3 repositories, opening yast software management and choosing 'Package -> Update All Packages -> Update if a newer version exists' and clicking 'Accept'. There were no new dependency issues with the update. repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/Desktop/openSUSE_11.0/ repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Community/openSUSE_11.0_KDE4_Factory_Desktop/ repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Playground/openSUSE_11.0_KDE4_Factory_Desktop/ Also, for the work that has been done on KDE Classic (KDE 3.5.10), thank you Will and the rest! It really shows. KDE Classic is in such good shape that for older boxes that don't really run KDE4 well, having KDE 3.5.10 for the desktop is worth it's weight in gold. Further, with the newer decorations available for KDE3 (crystal, bespin, smooth, glow, system++ and the deKorator themes), the interface is not far from the kde4 look. I do have another issue with both kde's and compiz that appeared after yesterday's updates in addition to the fact there is not compiz-kde4 compatible with kde 4.3.X (the existing compiz-kde4 is for 4.0.4), but I'll include that in a separate post. Thanks for the hard work! -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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Tejas Guruswamy

27 Jan 27 Jan

19:51

On 27/01/10 19:23, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

(1) File 'Save/Save As' behavior for jpg files has regressed to jpeg. Following the bugzilla discussions, the plan was to have the 'save/save as' dialog default to saving a '.jpg' to prevent the conflict and incompatibility with the billions of existing .jpg files. 4.3.4 had corrected this. 4.3.95 has regressed to defaulting to .jpg. What's the story?

I see .jpeg on Gwenview too (I assume the last sentence was a typo). Though I don't see why it's a huge problem, Linux doesn't care about file extensions and even Windows recognizes both .jpg and .jpeg.

...

(2) plasmoids for cpu & network monitors - still no way to set graph color (Anders, I know you told me how this works, but I cannot get it to work in 4.3.95 at all).

I don't see any options for this either, was it meant to be there?

...

(3) plasmoids for cpu & network monitors - graph lines disappear on widget resize and there is no way to get them back.

If you make the widget REALLY big they appear; but if you make it small again they disappear. Same as in KDE 4.3.x I'm afraid.

...

for anyone running 11.0+, the install is as simple as adding the following 3 repositories, opening yast software management and choosing 'Package -> Update All Packages -> Update if a newer version exists' and clicking 'Accept'. There were no new dependency issues with the update.

...

I do have another issue with both kde's and compiz that appeared after yesterday's updates in addition to the fact there is not compiz-kde4 compatible with kde 4.3.X (the existing compiz-kde4 is for 4.0.4), but I'll include that in a separate post. Not a solution but IMO Kwin's built-in compositing effects have obsoleted compiz on KDE4. Most of the common effects have been implemented and it generally behaves a lot better with the desktop. Is

Just a warning to anyone reading, actually, on 11.2, Yast will not update if you simply add the repositories and click update because it would involve a vendor change; solution is to open the "Repositories" tab and click the "Switch package versions to this repository" link near the top. Also remember that these packages are not always guaranteed to be stable. there a specific effect that is keeping you tied to compiz? System Settings -> Desktop -> Desktop Effects. Thanks for sending out such a positive email, its nice to remind people that KDE4 does actually work just fine for a silent majority of people. Not saying that we should ignore the vocal minority who have problems but they should think before they dismiss KDE4 as unstable and useless and a waste of time and call for its demise. Regards, Tejas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin

21:21

On 01/27/2010 01:51 PM, Tejas Guruswamy wrote:

...

I see .jpeg on Gwenview too (I assume the last sentence was a typo). Though I don't see why it's a huge problem, Linux doesn't care about file extensions and even Windows recognizes both .jpg and .jpeg.

Tejas, the problem is HUGE. With KDE4 spitting out .jpeg extensions after KDE, for the last 10 years used .jpg, means EVERY script and program that used or relied on .jpg for file handling has to be re-written or every .jpeg extension has to be renamed .jpg to be compatible. And... the complete change in direction to .jpeg by KDE4 was necessary -- why?

...

...
(2) plasmoids for cpu & network monitors - still no way to set graph color (Anders, I know you told me how this works, but I cannot get it to work in 4.3.95 at all).

I don't see any options for this either, was it meant to be there?

Yes, it has been there since 4.0.4 when released by SuSE on 6/4/08. See: http://www.3111skyline.com/dl/ss/kde4/plsm-cpumtr.jpg Verses Now: http://www.3111skyline.com/dl/ss/kde4/plsm-Widget-NoScaleNoColor.jpeg

...

...
(3) plasmoids for cpu & network monitors - graph lines disappear on widget resize and there is no way to get them back.

If you make the widget REALLY big they appear; but if you make it small again they disappear. Same as in KDE 4.3.x I'm afraid.

...
for anyone running 11.0+, the install is as simple as adding the following 3 repositories, opening yast software management and choosing 'Package -> Update All Packages -> Update if a newer version exists' and clicking 'Accept'. There were no new dependency issues with the update.

No, look again at the pictures above, the widgets are EXACTLY the same size as they were before and now -> no lines no color :-(

...

Just a warning to anyone reading, actually, on 11.2, Yast will not update if you simply add the repositories and click update because it would involve a vendor change; solution is to open the "Repositories" tab and click the "Switch package versions to this repository" link near the top. Also remember that these packages are not always guaranteed to be stable.

...
I do have another issue with both kde's and compiz that appeared after yesterday's updates in addition to the fact there is not compiz-kde4 compatible with kde 4.3.X (the existing compiz-kde4 is for 4.0.4), but I'll include that in a separate post.

...

Not a solution but IMO Kwin's built-in compositing effects have obsoleted compiz on KDE4. Most of the common effects have been implemented and it generally behaves a lot better with the desktop. Is there a specific effect that is keeping you tied to compiz? System Settings -> Desktop -> Desktop Effects.

NO WAY. The elegance of motion handling by compiz makes the kde desktop effects look like a joke. The multiple acceleration transitions and timings in compiz give the desktop a smooth and elegant feel. DE on KDE4 doesn't have a fraction of the algorithms compiz does.

...

Thanks for sending out such a positive email, its nice to remind people that KDE4 does actually work just fine for a silent majority of people. Not saying that we should ignore the vocal minority who have problems but they should think before they dismiss KDE4 as unstable and useless and a waste of time and call for its demise.

Regards, Tejas

That's all I ever do. I never point out the negative of aspects of anything. I leave that to the other complainers on the list :p -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin

29 Jan 29 Jan

15:48

On 01/27/2010 01:23 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

Devs,

Just dropping a note to say great job with both KDE Classic (3.5.10-51) and KDE 4.3.95 (44beta). KDE Classic is near flawless and KDE4 is much improved between 4.3.4 and 4.4 beta (from Factory). From a user prospective, it is obvious that a great amount of effort has been directed to both desktops and it is much appreciated.

The striking difference in 44beta is the actual addition of kde4 tools (like the "Add Widget" drag&drop implementation, etc..) which for the first time look like what must have been envisioned when kde4 was conceived, but were not completed or ready for release until now. As more of the kde4 features are implemented, the 'vision' of what kde4 will be becomes clearer and why kde4 behaves in certain ways now makes more sense -- much of which has been indiscernible to date. There is some cool stuff here.

There are a couple of regressions of note:

Err.. Umm.. I hate being wrong! There are a few more than a 'couple of regressions of note.' It is obvious that a lot of work has been done on kde44beta to implement the kde4 tools and make the interface look striking. The only problem? All of the new interfaces are broken, and moreover things that used to work don't any more. In addition to the original regression list, you can no longer "Add Widgets" -- unless you are lucky enough to have the widget you need appear in the first 6-7. If you have to scroll to the right to get to the one you want -> you're hosed, all the widgets disappear. If you scroll the categories, you have a 50/50 chance of plasma crashing. Next, for some reason kde4 grabs the kde3 window decorations and there is no way to get your kde4 decorations back until you downgrade to 4.3.4. Additionally, numerous widgets, like the daisy launcher, and others no longer launch anything. Quicklaunch can no longer add a .desktop file from /usr/share/applications -- it just errors and refuses to load. The screensaver will not start, even after configuring it multiple times. Worse yet, the screensaver is still broken after a downgrad to 4.3.4. In 4.3.95 plasma crashed quite a bit, which was expected due to the beta status of the packages. Probably the most frustrating part of 44beta was virtually none of the 150+ bugs I filed against 43beta nearly a year ago have been fixed -- oh well, all is normal with kde4, but it does look a lot nicer. Will, anybody - which config files should I delete and recreate in 4.3.4 after the downgrade to get the screensaver working again? The most frustrating problem is the install of 4.3.95 broke compiz in kde3 and it is still broken after the downgrade. What do I need to do to get compiz working again in 3.5? The good news is kde4 styles and window decorations are back after the downgrade and widgets can now be added to the desktop and quicklaunch in a reliable way. 44beta is still usable -- as long as you just want to use it without changing anything. Next time I'll kick the tires a bit more before pronouncing great improvements. There are improvements that look really good -- problem is they just don't work :( The worst part about the whole ordeal was cleaning my local repositories of the beta rpms. However, we are back up and running. (note to self -- create a separate repo for the next kde4 upgrade :) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Tejas Guruswamy

16:52

On 29/01/10 15:48, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

you can no longer "Add Widgets" -- unless you are lucky enough to have the widget you need appear in the first 6-7. If you have to scroll to the right to get to the one you want -> you're hosed, all the widgets disappear. If you scroll the categories, you have a 50/50 chance of plasma crashing.

Just tried this, and I've got the same issue. I hadn't tried before so can't be sure where this bug crept in. I've been scouring bugs.kde.org but can't find anything yet, this is a pretty major one ... I'll ask on the KDE list.

...

Next, for some reason kde4 grabs the kde3 window decorations and there is no way to get your kde4 decorations back until you downgrade to 4.3.4. Additionally, numerous widgets, like the daisy launcher, and others no longer launch anything. Quicklaunch can no longer add a .desktop file from /usr/share/applications -- it just errors and refuses to load. The screensaver will not start, even after configuring it multiple times. Worse yet, the screensaver is still broken after a downgrad to 4.3.4. In 4.3.95 plasma crashed quite a bit, which was expected due to the beta status of the packages. Probably the most frustrating part of 44beta was virtually none of the 150+ bugs I filed against 43beta nearly a year ago have been fixed -- oh well, all is normal with kde4, but it does look a lot nicer.

I don't have the window decoration problem, but I don't have KDE3 installed. Screensavers work for me (KDE4.4). Quicklaunch works for me - I am able to drag&drop from the menu into it and launch applications just fine. Dunno about the daisy launcher, I don't seem to have that one installed, which package is it in? Regards, Tejas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Tejas Guruswamy

17:06

On 29/01/10 16:52, Tejas Guruswamy wrote:

...

On 29/01/10 15:48, David C. Rankin wrote:

...
you can no longer "Add Widgets" -- unless you are lucky enough to have the widget you need appear in the first 6-7. If you have to scroll to the right to get to the one you want -> you're hosed, all the widgets disappear. If you scroll the categories, you have a 50/50 chance of plasma crashing.

Just tried this, and I've got the same issue. I hadn't tried before so can't be sure where this bug crept in. I've been scouring bugs.kde.org but can't find anything yet, this is a pretty major one ... I'll ask on the KDE list.

Found it, bko#223517, says fixed after RC2 and will be in 4.4.0 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=223517 Regards, Tejas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Will Stephenson

31 Jan 31 Jan

18:25

On Friday 29 Jan 2010 16:48:10 David C. Rankin wrote:

...

Will, anybody - which config files should I delete and recreate in 4.3.4 after the downgrade to get the screensaver working again?

Downgrading using the same config files isn't supported, so I can only say 'any config files or application files (in .kde4/share/config or .kde4/share/apps) that have a timestamp later than when you first started a 4.4 with that .kde4'... Will -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin

21:03

On 01/31/2010 12:25 PM, Will Stephenson wrote:

...

On Friday 29 Jan 2010 16:48:10 David C. Rankin wrote:

...
Will, anybody - which config files should I delete and recreate in 4.3.4 after the downgrade to get the screensaver working again?

Downgrading using the same config files isn't supported, so I can only say 'any config files or application files (in .kde4/share/config or .kde4/share/apps) that have a timestamp later than when you first started a 4.4 with that .kde4'...

Will

Thank you again Will! You seem to be my saving grace for kde4. Here is a bit of feedback you can put in your hip-pocket. For the downgrade, you CAN use ALL of the same config files between 4.3.95 and 4.3.4. The only lingering problem I have is the Alt+F2 run command calling 'bbrun -w' instead of krunner. All of the other config files seem to have settled down after a few login/logouts and a reboot or two in the normal course of using the laptop. Fairly painless all-in-all. Any idea on the bbrun issue? I'll poke around some more and report back. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Will Stephenson

1 Feb 1 Feb

09:37

On Sunday 31 Jan 2010 22:03:58 David C. Rankin wrote:

...

Fairly painless all-in-all. Any idea on the bbrun issue? I'll poke around some more and report back.

The way global shortcuts like alt-f2 (global means it doesn't matter which window is focused) work is that any app can come along and steal a shortcut that has already been registered. KDE 4 tries to solve this for its apps by having a single global shortcut broker kglobalaccel that detects conflicts and stealing attempts. I assume that from trying out blackbox, some process is being started that snatches alt-f2 from krunner. I would look at your ps aux output to see what it might be, then look in your autostarts (alt-f2, 'autostart' or for people in your situation 'kcmshell4 autostart'), or perhaps started the traditional way. in ~/.xinitrc or ~/.xsession, and stop it from running. You could also look at the contents list of the package that installed bbrun and see if it installed a system wide autostart .desktop file in /usr/share/autostart/. Will -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin

18:17

On 02/01/2010 03:37 AM, Will Stephenson wrote:

...

On Sunday 31 Jan 2010 22:03:58 David C. Rankin wrote:

...
Fairly painless all-in-all. Any idea on the bbrun issue? I'll poke around some more and report back.

The way global shortcuts like alt-f2 (global means it doesn't matter which window is focused) work is that any app can come along and steal a shortcut that has already been registered. KDE 4 tries to solve this for its apps by having a single global shortcut broker kglobalaccel that detects conflicts and stealing attempts.

I assume that from trying out blackbox, some process is being started that snatches alt-f2 from krunner. I would look at your ps aux output to see what it might be, then look in your autostarts (alt-f2, 'autostart' or for people in your situation 'kcmshell4 autostart'), or perhaps started the traditional way. in ~/.xinitrc or ~/.xsession, and stop it from running. You could also look at the contents list of the package that installed bbrun and see if it installed a system wide autostart .desktop file in /usr/share/autostart/.

Will

Will, There was a bit of weirdness in the ~/.config/autostart where everything now seems to want to squirrel away autostart options. Here are the entries I moved from ~/.config/autostart: 12:12 alchemy:~> l dt/tmp/autostart/ -rw-r--r-- 1 david dcr 29 2009-12-29 01:47 hplip-systray.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 david dcr 29 2009-12-29 02:03 xfce4-settings-helper-autostart.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 david dcr 28 2009-12-20 03:23 xfconf-migration-4.6.desktop Another bit of strangeness was after running ksquirrel once, I would get the ksquirrel splash screen on kde4 login each time. rpm -e ksquirrel fixed that problem. However, I couldn't find where it was being launched from since it wasn't in any of the autostart locatations, unless it was the entry in ksmserverrc that was doing it: ksmserverrc:program10=ksquirrel ksmserverrc:restartCommand10=ksquirrel,-session,10c6d9dc68000126497495900000120590079_1264974959_968745 The /usr/share/autostart entries look OK to me except for the two plasma entries: 12:07 alchemy:~> l /usr/share/autostart/ total 120 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2010-02-01 11:10 ./ drwxr-xr-x 501 root root 20480 2010-02-01 10:57 ../ -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4061 2010-01-29 14:25 kabcdistlistupdater.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3525 2010-01-29 14:25 kalarm.autostart.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 51 2010-01-22 20:16 kdesktop.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6010 2010-01-29 15:13 kgpg.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 10673 2010-01-29 12:59 klipper.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3926 2010-01-29 13:14 kmix_autostart.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1514 2009-12-04 03:34 knemo.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6293 2010-01-29 13:22 konqy_preload.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5764 2010-01-29 14:25 korgac.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2703 2010-01-29 12:59 krunner.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 51 2010-01-22 20:16 ktip.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9636 2010-01-22 21:44 nepomukserver.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 51 2010-01-22 20:16 panel.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 51 2010-01-29 12:59 plasma.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3476 2010-01-29 12:59 plasma-desktop.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3296 2010-01-29 13:14 restore_kmix_volumes.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 233 2010-01-24 11:10 SUSEgreeter.desktop What's the deal with plasma.desktop and plasma-desktop.desktop?? 12:10 alchemy:/usr/share/autostart> cat plasma.desktop [Desktop Entry] X-SuSE-translate=true Hidden=true 12:10 alchemy:/usr/share/autostart> cat plasma-desktop.desktop [Desktop Entry] X-SuSE-translate=true Exec=plasma-desktop X-DBUS-StartupType=wait Name=Plasma Desktop Workspace <snip all the translations> Type=Service X-KDE-StartupNotify=false OnlyShowIn=KDE; X-KDE-autostart-phase=0 They seem to duplicate the 'X-SuSE-translate=true' function. Do I need to remove one? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Will Stephenson

19:55

On Monday 01 February 2010 19:17:28 David C. Rankin wrote:

...

There was a bit of weirdness in the ~/.config/autostart where everything now seems to want to squirrel away autostart options.

it's a freedesktop.org standard

...

Here are the entries I moved from ~/.config/autostart:

12:12 alchemy:~> l dt/tmp/autostart/ -rw-r--r-- 1 david dcr 29 2009-12-29 01:47 hplip-systray.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 david dcr 29 2009-12-29 02:03 xfce4-settings-helper-autostart.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 david dcr 28 2009-12-20 03:23 xfconf-migration-4.6.desktop

the .config/autostart entries override system wide entries. So for example if you configured something not to autostart, which has a system wide autostart, it would create an entry here. I guess the migration is done to prevent a system wide migrater script from running more than once.

...

Another bit of strangeness was after running ksquirrel once, I would get the ksquirrel splash screen on kde4 login each time. rpm -e ksquirrel fixed that problem. However, I couldn't find where it was being launched from since it wasn't in any of the autostart locatations, unless it was the entry in ksmserverrc that was doing it:

ksmserverrc:program10=ksquirrel ksmserverrc:restartCommand10=ksquirrel,-session,10c6d9dc6800012649749590000 0120590079_1264974959_968745

I don't know anything about ksquirrel. If it respects session management and was running on logout, it will end up here though.

...

The /usr/share/autostart entries look OK to me except for the two plasma entries:

12:07 alchemy:~> l /usr/share/autostart/ total 120 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2010-02-01 11:10 ./ drwxr-xr-x 501 root root 20480 2010-02-01 10:57 ../ -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4061 2010-01-29 14:25 kabcdistlistupdater.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3525 2010-01-29 14:25 kalarm.autostart.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 51 2010-01-22 20:16 kdesktop.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6010 2010-01-29 15:13 kgpg.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 10673 2010-01-29 12:59 klipper.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3926 2010-01-29 13:14 kmix_autostart.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1514 2009-12-04 03:34 knemo.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6293 2010-01-29 13:22 konqy_preload.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5764 2010-01-29 14:25 korgac.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2703 2010-01-29 12:59 krunner.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 51 2010-01-22 20:16 ktip.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9636 2010-01-22 21:44 nepomukserver.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 51 2010-01-22 20:16 panel.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 51 2010-01-29 12:59 plasma.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3476 2010-01-29 12:59 plasma-desktop.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3296 2010-01-29 13:14 restore_kmix_volumes.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 233 2010-01-24 11:10 SUSEgreeter.desktop

What's the deal with plasma.desktop and plasma-desktop.desktop??

The Plasma workspace was 'plasma(.desktop)' until KDE 4.3 and from then on 'plasma-[desktop|netbook|...]'. As you can see with `rpm -qf /usr/share/autostart/plasma.desktop`, the current kdebase4-workspace also installs Hidden=true plasma.desktop to prevent any stale plasma from 4.2 from starting.

...

12:10 alchemy:/usr/share/autostart> cat plasma.desktop [Desktop Entry] X-SuSE-translate=true Hidden=true

12:10 alchemy:/usr/share/autostart> cat plasma-desktop.desktop [Desktop Entry] X-SuSE-translate=true Exec=plasma-desktop X-DBUS-StartupType=wait Name=Plasma Desktop Workspace <snip all the translations> Type=Service X-KDE-StartupNotify=false OnlyShowIn=KDE; X-KDE-autostart-phase=0

They seem to duplicate the 'X-SuSE-translate=true' function. Do I need to remove one?

No -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Will Stephenson

09:45

On Sunday 31 Jan 2010 22:03:58 David C. Rankin wrote:

...

Fairly painless all-in-all. Any idea on the bbrun issue? I'll poke around some more and report back.

I also found the following mail of yours while googling the topic. Probably whatever evaluates your ~/.config/openbox/rc.xml is still running on startup in a kde4 session, and binding /usr/bin/bbrun to alt-f2 as you describe. http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2009-12/msg00940.html Will -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Jay_Linux

09:55

New subject: [opensuse] KDE devs [ Classic (3.5) & 4 ] Great Job, Both Desktop Interfaces Look Great... Much Improved

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:53 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

Devs,

Just dropping a note to say great job with both KDE Classic (3.5.10-51) and KDE 4.3.95 (44beta). KDE Classic is near flawless and KDE4 is much improved between 4.3.4 and 4.4 beta (from Factory). From a user prospective, it is obvious that a great amount of effort has been directed to both desktops and it is much appreciated.

How do you install KDE 3.5.10 in openSUSE 11.2 with KDE 4.3 already installed ? Thanks, Jay -- Linux User 483705 @ http://counter.li.org/ (Linux Counter) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin

4 Feb 4 Feb

06:11

New subject: [opensuse] KDE devs [ Classic (3.5) & 4 ] Great Job, Both Desktop Interfaces Look Great... Much Improved

On 02/01/2010 03:55 AM, Jay_Linux wrote:

...

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:53 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:

...
Devs,

Just dropping a note to say great job with both KDE Classic (3.5.10-51) and KDE 4.3.95 (44beta). KDE Classic is near flawless and KDE4 is much improved between 4.3.4 and 4.4 beta (from Factory). From a user prospective, it is obvious that a great amount of effort has been directed to both desktops and it is much appreciated.

How do you install KDE 3.5.10 in openSUSE 11.2 with KDE 4.3 already installed ?

Thanks,

Jay

Jay, It's actually real easy. Go add the following repos: http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_... http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/Backports/open... http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/Community/open... Then just use yast software management, and choose repositories as your filter. Then in the KDE:/KDE3 repo go choose a couple of packages like: http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/x86_64... http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/x86_64... http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/x86_64... http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/x86_64... http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/x86_64... http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/x86_64... http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/x86_64... http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/x86_64... That will be enough to force yast to pull in the rest of kde3 through dependencies. Then just browse through the Backports and Community repos and pick the packages you want. You may need to tell yast to Use the kde3 repos as the default for the packages. I just disabled the check an kept a close eye on the dependencies. Initially kde3 was a mess for 11.2, but since then Will and/or Dotan have really got it looking great. Fantastic desktop. If KDE had any brains at all they would keep kde3 as "KDE Classic" and KDE4 as the new KDE. We all remember what happened when Coca Cola tried to drop Coke in Favor of "New Coke".... In that case it took less that 2 weeks for wise corporate management to respond to customer demand and bring Coke back as "Coke Classic". The pay-scales are dramatically different, but I know we have kde devs that are just as smart as any Coca Cola CEO. Hopefully they will make a like and wise a decision and announce the continuation of "KDE Classic" -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Jay_Linux

10 Feb 10 Feb

14:44

New subject: [opensuse] KDE devs [ Classic (3.5) & 4 ] Great Job, Both Desktop Interfaces Look Great... Much Improved

...

...
How do you install KDE 3.5.10 in openSUSE 11.2 with KDE 4.3 already installed ?

Thanks,

Jay

Jay,

It's actually real easy. Go add the following repos:

http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_...

http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/Backports/open...

http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/Community/open...

Then just use yast software management, and choose repositories as your filter. Then in the KDE:/KDE3 repo go choose a couple of packages like:

http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/x86_64... http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/x86_64... http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/x86_64... http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/x86_64... http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/x86_64... http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/x86_64... http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/x86_64... http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/x86_64...

That will be enough to force yast to pull in the rest of kde3 through dependencies. Then just browse through the Backports and Community repos and ..... I just disabled the check an kept a close eye on the dependencies.

Thanks for the detailed instructions-will try them out this weekend, I was not aware of the other KDE 3 repos other then that mentioned at http://en.opensuse.org/KDE3 (http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/)

...

You may need to tell yast to Use the kde3 repos as the default for the packages.

I don't see this option in Yast (using the Gtk interface in GNOME 2.28 desktop). ..... (/ Can Yast be made to use the Qt interface in GNOME ?, since I am unable to use KDE 4.3.5 as there is a problem in the desktop icons (red exclamation mark on desktop icons and apps don't launch, and thus would prefer to use KDE 3.5.10 if it offers the same functionality and apps as KDE 4 does /). - Another thing is: does one need to make a change in any of the system files in _oS 11.2_ when KDE 4 & KDE 3 are co-installed, as mentioned here - (/ didn't have any problem with both KDE's installed in _oS 11.1_ /) http://en.opensuse.org/KDE4#KDE_3_and_KDE_4

...

...
KDE 3 and KDE 4

The KDE4 packages install into the /usr prefix, so KDE3 and KDE4 can safely be installed at the same time.

To prevent the accidental starting of KDE4 applications within a KDE3 session add at the top of /opt/kde3/bin/startkde

PATH=/opt/kde3/bin:${PATH/:\/opt\/kde3\/bin} export PATH

If you are using another window manager then adding this line to the .bashrc file should also load the correct applications.

...

Initially kde3 was a mess for 11.2, but since then Will and/or Dotan have really got it looking great. Fantastic desktop.

If KDE had any brains at all they would keep kde3 as "KDE Classic" and KDE4 as the new KDE. We all remember what happened when Coca Cola tried to drop Coke in Favor of "New Coke"....

In that case it took less that 2 weeks for wise corporate management to respond to customer demand and bring Coke back as "Coke Classic".

The pay-scales are dramatically different, but I know we have kde devs that are just as smart as any Coca Cola CEO. Hopefully they will make a like and wise a decision and announce the continuation of "KDE Classic"

Similar to Windows XP - Classic vs Standard/Glossy style or MS Office with and without the ribbon (no more an option for Office 2007 and beyond).

...

-- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com

Jay -- Linux User 483705 @ http://counter.li.org/ (Linux Counter) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Tejas Guruswamy

17:52

New subject: [opensuse] KDE devs [ Classic (3.5) & 4 ] Great Job, Both Desktop Interfaces Look Great... Much Improved

On 10/02/10 14:44, Jay_Linux wrote:

...

I don't see this option in Yast (using the Gtk interface in GNOME 2.28 desktop). ..... (/ Can Yast be made to use the Qt interface in GNOME ?, since I am unable to use KDE 4.3.5 as there is a problem in the desktop icons (red exclamation mark on desktop icons and apps don't launch, and thus would prefer to use KDE 3.5.10 if it offers the same functionality and apps as KDE 4 does /).

Try /sbin/yast2 --qt As for your reason for leaving KDE4.3.5, one "feature" _appears_ broken to you, and you blame the entire DE? Anyway, the red exclamation marks are most likely because the .desktop files aren't marked executable. If you trust the .desktop file just go chmod +x it and the exclamation mark should go away. If its something else, start a new thread and we can help you debug it. And no, KDE3 does not offer all the features and functionality and apps that KDE4 does. For that matter, KDE4 doesn't offer all the features and functionality and apps that KDE3 does either. Many many major features have been introduced and many "features" that were decided to be useless were removed. YMMV; some people complain but I feel I can do more (both as a user and developer) in KDE4 than I ever could in KDE3. It's a personal choice. The only thing that is unacceptable is to complain that KDE4 isn't the same as KDE3 ... of course, that was the point. The KDE devs made a decision that they could no longer do what they wanted as part of KDE3 so they moved on. If you refuse to agree with them just stick with KDE3; there are enough of you to support each other; just don't keep bugging people on mailing lists trying to convince them that they should disregard their part 3 years of work, which they are mostly happy with, just because of your minority opinion.

...

- Another thing is: does one need to make a change in any of the system files in _oS 11.2_ when KDE 4 & KDE 3 are co-installed, as mentioned here - (/ didn't have any problem with both KDE's installed in _oS 11.1_ /) http://en.opensuse.org/KDE4#KDE_3_and_KDE_4

KDE 3 and KDE 4

The KDE4 packages install into the /usr prefix, so KDE3 and KDE4 can safely be installed at the same time.

To prevent the accidental starting of KDE4 applications within a KDE3 session add at the top of /opt/kde3/bin/startkde

PATH=/opt/kde3/bin:${PATH/:\/opt\/kde3\/bin} export PATH

If you are using another window manager then adding this line to the .bashrc file should also load the correct applications.

No changes are necessary. KDE4 still keeps its files in ~/.kde4 while KDE3 still uses ~/.kde. The change you mentioned is just in the case where KDE3 and KDE4 applications have the same name. KDE4 apps live in /usr/bin, KDE3 apps in /opt/kde3/bin. By default the KDE4 apps are preferred, only if you want to change that do the above. Regards, Tejas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin

18:24

New subject: [opensuse] KDE devs [ Classic (3.5) & 4 ] Great Job, Both Desktop Interfaces Look Great... Much Improved

On 02/10/2010 08:44 AM, Jay_Linux wrote:

...

I don't see this option in Yast (using the Gtk interface in GNOME 2.28 desktop). ..... (/ Can Yast be made to use the Qt interface in GNOME ?, since I am unable to use KDE 4.3.5 as there is a problem in the desktop icons (red exclamation mark on desktop icons and apps don't launch, and thus would prefer to use KDE 3.5.10 if it offers the same functionality and apps as KDE 4 does /).

- Another thing is: does one need to make a change in any of the system files in _oS 11.2_ when KDE 4 & KDE 3 are co-installed, as mentioned here - (/ didn't have any problem with both KDE's installed in _oS 11.1_ /)

Whoaaaa! I use gnome too, but for ANYTHING LIKE THIS, use ONLY: yast2 --qt sw_single & The 11.2 yast2 --gtk interface provides nowhere near the control required for any package customization. In the --qt interface IIRC, you will have the option at the top of the package list or in the "Versions" tab to (AllowVendorChange) to switch all package versions to those found in repository XYZ. After you start yast and select Filter -> Repositories and then select the kde3 repository, (and each the kde3 community and playground repos) you will need to Allow Vendor Change for the entire repository, unless you employ the (personally recommended, but not 'Officially' recommended) work-around by setting AllowVendorChange=true in /etc/zypp/zypp.conf. Without AllowVendorChange=true, 11.2 will refuse to show you the newer kde3 packages from the kde3 repo (or community or playground repos). The default AllowVendorChange=false just tells yast/zypper that when it finds a version of a package contained in any repository that is newer than the official release package -> hide it from the user unless he specifically says use it (this is a huge pain when updating a large number of packages). It is a feature that is supposed to prevent against users installing incompatible libraries or packages from different repos. As long as you resolve your dependencies in a sane manner anyway during package selection, zypper dependency checking is more than good enough the way it was before this 11.2 hidden restriction. I found that option much more of a pain than of any real usefulness and ended up disabling the vendor lock (setting AllowVendorChange=true) in zypp.conf to get back the normal zypper behavior. Just make sure you solve your dependency conflicts like you have always done and you will be fine -- but you will need the control provided by yast2 --qt to do it correctly. The yast2 --gtk version is for users who don't want to (or can't) think. I tried using it in gnome and it drove me crazy. It was impossible to see and navigate through a large number of packages and getting to the dependency details was near impossible. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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David C. Rankin
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Tejas Guruswamy
Will Stephenson

[opensuse] KDE devs [ Classic (3.5) & 4 ] Great Job, Both Desktop Interfaces Look Great... Much Improved

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