A couple of problems with SuSE 8.1 Professional
O.K. I have build three systems and upgraded a 8.0 to 8.1 over the last couple of weeks and have had some problems: 1) It looks like that USB keyboards and Mice don't work but default. In 8.0 I configured the system them changed to the USB device and that was it. This is not true in 8.1. 2) When installing 8.0 or 8.1 on a SMP system with two NIC cards the networking does not work. I always have to pull one of the cards, get the networking up and running and then install the second card. I messed with one of my systems in 8.0 and got it working and then promptly forgot about it think it would be fixed in the next release. Well it is not and I my system has two NICs on the motherboard so I can't just pull one like before. Besides I would really like to document the problem this time around. So has anyone else seen this? 3) Has anyone worked with any of the file systems that support large files ( greater than 1 or 2 gigs?) I use Reiser but maybe it is time to look at one of the other file systems if Reiser does not support this? 4) I know that there has been a lot of bandwidth on the system shutdown behavior with the SMP kernels but really isn't it about time for SuSE to fix this? I mean really, all of the system house have this working, why do we need to recompile the kernel just for this? The behavior should be the same between the single CPU and multi-CPU kernels out of the box. I am not trying to flame I just think that after two years of seeing the same issues they should be fixed. And before you say get the compiler and the source I pay for the upgrades from SuSE and I want to be a "USER" on these issues so I pay them by purchasing the upgrades. Thanks if anyone can help. I also sent a similar request into SuSE support so I will let you know what I here if anyone is interested. Robert
I just got a reply back from SuSE that troubles me a little. Basically, they do not provide installation support for SMP based systems. But they did point out that I could purchase a support package. So I guess I am back to solving this one on my own (unless a kind sole has a suggestion.) I seem to remember that Redhat provided installation support for SMP systems. Does anyone know off of the top of their head? Thanks everyone! Robert On Wednesday, April 9, 2003, at 12:41 AM, Robert Fenney wrote:
O.K.
I have build three systems and upgraded a 8.0 to 8.1 over the last couple of weeks and have had some problems:
1) It looks like that USB keyboards and Mice don't work but default. In 8.0 I configured the system them changed to the USB device and that was it. This is not true in 8.1.
2) When installing 8.0 or 8.1 on a SMP system with two NIC cards the networking does not work. I always have to pull one of the cards, get the networking up and running and then install the second card. I messed with one of my systems in 8.0 and got it working and then promptly forgot about it think it would be fixed in the next release. Well it is not and I my system has two NICs on the motherboard so I can't just pull one like before. Besides I would really like to document the problem this time around. So has anyone else seen this?
3) Has anyone worked with any of the file systems that support large files ( greater than 1 or 2 gigs?) I use Reiser but maybe it is time to look at one of the other file systems if Reiser does not support this?
4) I know that there has been a lot of bandwidth on the system shutdown behavior with the SMP kernels but really isn't it about time for SuSE to fix this? I mean really, all of the system house have this working, why do we need to recompile the kernel just for this? The behavior should be the same between the single CPU and multi-CPU kernels out of the box.
I am not trying to flame I just think that after two years of seeing the same issues they should be fixed. And before you say get the compiler and the source I pay for the upgrades from SuSE and I want to be a "USER" on these issues so I pay them by purchasing the upgrades.
Thanks if anyone can help. I also sent a similar request into SuSE support so I will let you know what I here if anyone is interested.
Robert
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On 2003.04.09 09:41 Robert Fenney wrote:
3) Has anyone worked with any of the file systems that support large files ( greater than 1 or 2 gigs?) I use Reiser but maybe it is time to look at one of the other file systems if Reiser does not support this?
reiser supports files > 2GB. You could also look at XFS, which is a very nice file system.
4) I know that there has been a lot of bandwidth on the system shutdown behavior with the SMP kernels but really isn't it about time for SuSE to fix this? I mean really, all of the system house have this working, why do we need to recompile the kernel just for this? The behavior should be the same between the single CPU and multi-CPU kernels out of the box.
APM doesn't support SMP, that's the problem. The replacement, which does support SMP is ACPI. 8.0, IIRC, didn't have a very good implementation of ACPI. 8.1 out of the box had a few problems, which on my machine were solved by adding the kernel parameter pci=acpi. The updated kernel for 8.1 doesn't need that, so get that one from your preferred ftp mirror. Anders
Thanks for the information. What changes do I need to make to get reiser to support files > 2GB? It does not seem to support it on the standard SuSE configuration. And yes I am starting to look at XFS and one other. Thanks for the ACPI info. That is what my new systems has but when I power down it locks the system until I unplug the power cable and then plug it back in again. I will get the updated kernel and give it a try. Robert On Wednesday, April 9, 2003, at 11:21 AM, Anders Johansson wrote:
On 2003.04.09 09:41 Robert Fenney wrote:
3) Has anyone worked with any of the file systems that support large files ( greater than 1 or 2 gigs?) I use Reiser but maybe it is time to look at one of the other file systems if Reiser does not support this?
reiser supports files > 2GB. You could also look at XFS, which is a very nice file system.
4) I know that there has been a lot of bandwidth on the system shutdown behavior with the SMP kernels but really isn't it about time for SuSE to fix this? I mean really, all of the system house have this working, why do we need to recompile the kernel just for this? The behavior should be the same between the single CPU and multi-CPU kernels out of the box.
APM doesn't support SMP, that's the problem. The replacement, which does support SMP is ACPI. 8.0, IIRC, didn't have a very good implementation of ACPI. 8.1 out of the box had a few problems, which on my machine were solved by adding the kernel parameter pci=acpi. The updated kernel for 8.1 doesn't need that, so get that one from your preferred ftp mirror.
Anders
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Can/have you/tried to disable one of the cards in the bios? This might allow you to do the install and turn the other card back on in the bios. Ken Schneider On Wed, 2003-04-09 at 14:13, Robert Fenney wrote:
I just got a reply back from SuSE that troubles me a little. Basically, they do not provide installation support for SMP based systems. But they did point out that I could purchase a support package. So I guess I am back to solving this one on my own (unless a kind sole has a suggestion.) I seem to remember that Redhat provided installation support for SMP systems. Does anyone know off of the top of their head?
Thanks everyone!
Robert
On Wednesday, April 9, 2003, at 12:41 AM, Robert Fenney wrote:
O.K.
I have build three systems and upgraded a 8.0 to 8.1 over the last couple of weeks and have had some problems:
1) It looks like that USB keyboards and Mice don't work but default. In 8.0 I configured the system them changed to the USB device and that was it. This is not true in 8.1.
2) When installing 8.0 or 8.1 on a SMP system with two NIC cards the networking does not work. I always have to pull one of the cards, get the networking up and running and then install the second card. I messed with one of my systems in 8.0 and got it working and then promptly forgot about it think it would be fixed in the next release. Well it is not and I my system has two NICs on the motherboard so I can't just pull one like before. Besides I would really like to document the problem this time around. So has anyone else seen this?
3) Has anyone worked with any of the file systems that support large files ( greater than 1 or 2 gigs?) I use Reiser but maybe it is time to look at one of the other file systems if Reiser does not support this?
4) I know that there has been a lot of bandwidth on the system shutdown behavior with the SMP kernels but really isn't it about time for SuSE to fix this? I mean really, all of the system house have this working, why do we need to recompile the kernel just for this? The behavior should be the same between the single CPU and multi-CPU kernels out of the box.
I am not trying to flame I just think that after two years of seeing the same issues they should be fixed. And before you say get the compiler and the source I pay for the upgrades from SuSE and I want to be a "USER" on these issues so I pay them by purchasing the upgrades.
Thanks if anyone can help. I also sent a similar request into SuSE support so I will let you know what I here if anyone is interested.
Robert
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Thanks Ken but the bios only enables or disables both lan interfaces. If I can't find a better solution I will disable both interfaces and then stick ANOTHER NIC in the box, configure with that, turn back on the other two interfaces, configure them and then unistall the first NIC card and take it out. I know this is a pain but it looks like the best way right now. Robert On Wednesday, April 9, 2003, at 11:38 AM, Ken Schneider wrote:
Can/have you/tried to disable one of the cards in the bios?
This might allow you to do the install and turn the other card back on in the bios.
Ken Schneider
On Wed, 2003-04-09 at 14:13, Robert Fenney wrote:
I just got a reply back from SuSE that troubles me a little. Basically, they do not provide installation support for SMP based systems. But they did point out that I could purchase a support package. So I guess I am back to solving this one on my own (unless a kind sole has a suggestion.) I seem to remember that Redhat provided installation support for SMP systems. Does anyone know off of the top of their head?
Thanks everyone!
Robert
On Wednesday, April 9, 2003, at 12:41 AM, Robert Fenney wrote:
O.K.
I have build three systems and upgraded a 8.0 to 8.1 over the last couple of weeks and have had some problems:
1) It looks like that USB keyboards and Mice don't work but default. In 8.0 I configured the system them changed to the USB device and that was it. This is not true in 8.1.
2) When installing 8.0 or 8.1 on a SMP system with two NIC cards the networking does not work. I always have to pull one of the cards, get the networking up and running and then install the second card. I messed with one of my systems in 8.0 and got it working and then promptly forgot about it think it would be fixed in the next release. Well it is not and I my system has two NICs on the motherboard so I can't just pull one like before. Besides I would really like to document the problem this time around. So has anyone else seen this?
3) Has anyone worked with any of the file systems that support large files ( greater than 1 or 2 gigs?) I use Reiser but maybe it is time to look at one of the other file systems if Reiser does not support this?
4) I know that there has been a lot of bandwidth on the system shutdown behavior with the SMP kernels but really isn't it about time for SuSE to fix this? I mean really, all of the system house have this working, why do we need to recompile the kernel just for this? The behavior should be the same between the single CPU and multi-CPU kernels out of the box.
I am not trying to flame I just think that after two years of seeing the same issues they should be fixed. And before you say get the compiler and the source I pay for the upgrades from SuSE and I want to be a "USER" on these issues so I pay them by purchasing the upgrades.
Thanks if anyone can help. I also sent a similar request into SuSE support so I will let you know what I here if anyone is interested.
Robert
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On Wednesday 09 April 2003 13:38, Ken Schneider wrote:
Can/have you/tried to disable one of the cards in the bios?
This might allow you to do the install and turn the other card back on in the bios.
Ken Schneider
On Wed, 2003-04-09 at 14:13, Robert Fenney wrote:
I just got a reply back from SuSE that troubles me a little. Basically, they do not provide installation support for SMP based systems. But they did point out that I could purchase a support package. So I guess I am back to solving this one on my own (unless a kind sole has a suggestion.) I seem to remember that Redhat provided installation support for SMP systems. Does anyone know off of the top of their head?
Thanks everyone!
Robert
On Wednesday, April 9, 2003, at 12:41 AM, Robert Fenney wrote:
O.K. [stuff deleted]
I am not trying to flame I just think that after two years of seeing the same issues they should be fixed. And before you say get the compiler and the source I pay for the upgrades from SuSE and I want to be a "USER" on these issues so I pay them by purchasing the upgrades.
Thanks if anyone can help. I also sent a similar request into SuSE support so I will let you know what I here if anyone is interested.
Robert
Can you disable both NICs for the install and then enable and configure them after you have everything installed? I don't see why this wouldn't work as a work around. I agree that I don't like work arounds, but sometimes they are required. I also want to say that I understand what you are saying about paying for upgrades and wanting to be a USER and it being two years. But on the other side of the coin, I have a little story. We had to call Microsoft recently when we discovered that some of our software couldn't talk to an IBM DB2 database running on an AS400 system at a client site. Upon MS investigating this, they found that this problem had existed at least as far back as their SQL Server 6.5. So how many years has it not worked and them not fix it? And how many folks have paid for upgrades? And there apparently isn't even a good work around. And obviously there is no opportunity for us to help fix this problem other than reporting the issue. -- Kelly L. Fulks Home Account
Kelly, This is exactly the position I am in now. It turns out that SuSE does not support SMP systems in their installation support. Oh well! All of my research and development systems are SMP. BTW I try not to compare to MS anymore, we need to be better! I agree about access to source the problem is that to most users this is meaningless because they are not programmers.... They are users! I am a developer and so this is not a problem for me. I just would rather not have to worry about it for my base install. Anyway, thanks for the idea about not installing any NIC and then enabling after the install. I think I am going to try that right now. Robert On Wednesday, April 9, 2003, at 08:50 PM, Kelly L. Fulks wrote:
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 13:38, Ken Schneider wrote:
Can/have you/tried to disable one of the cards in the bios?
This might allow you to do the install and turn the other card back on in the bios.
Ken Schneider
On Wed, 2003-04-09 at 14:13, Robert Fenney wrote:
I just got a reply back from SuSE that troubles me a little. Basically, they do not provide installation support for SMP based systems. But they did point out that I could purchase a support package. So I guess I am back to solving this one on my own (unless a kind sole has a suggestion.) I seem to remember that Redhat provided installation support for SMP systems. Does anyone know off of the top of their head?
Thanks everyone!
Robert
On Wednesday, April 9, 2003, at 12:41 AM, Robert Fenney wrote:
O.K. [stuff deleted]
I am not trying to flame I just think that after two years of seeing the same issues they should be fixed. And before you say get the compiler and the source I pay for the upgrades from SuSE and I want to be a "USER" on these issues so I pay them by purchasing the upgrades.
Thanks if anyone can help. I also sent a similar request into SuSE support so I will let you know what I here if anyone is interested.
Robert
Can you disable both NICs for the install and then enable and configure them after you have everything installed? I don't see why this wouldn't work as a work around. I agree that I don't like work arounds, but sometimes they are required.
I also want to say that I understand what you are saying about paying for upgrades and wanting to be a USER and it being two years. But on the other side of the coin, I have a little story. We had to call Microsoft recently when we discovered that some of our software couldn't talk to an IBM DB2 database running on an AS400 system at a client site. Upon MS investigating this, they found that this problem had existed at least as far back as their SQL Server 6.5. So how many years has it not worked and them not fix it? And how many folks have paid for upgrades? And there apparently isn't even a good work around. And obviously there is no opportunity for us to help fix this problem other than reporting the issue.
-- Kelly L. Fulks Home Account
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On Thursday 10 April 2003 03:07, Robert Fenney wrote:
Kelly,
This is exactly the position I am in now. It turns out that SuSE does not support SMP systems in their installation support. Oh well! All of my research and development systems are SMP.
BTW I try not to compare to MS anymore, we need to be better!
I agree about access to source the problem is that to most users this is meaningless because they are not programmers.... They are users! I am a developer and so this is not a problem for me. I just would rather not have to worry about it for my base install.
Anyway, thanks for the idea about not installing any NIC and then enabling after the install. I think I am going to try that right now.
Robert
I agree that we need to be better. I also understand that the source doesn't help some people directly. I only compared to MS and mentioned the source code to point out the fact that you are not limited to support from SuSE. You do have the ability to hire someone to do the work for you that will undertake the effort at the speed necessary for you. There are obviously trade-offs in everything. I have no idea why SMP isn't included in SuSE's included support as SMP is basically the standard on servers now. -- Kelly L. Fulks Home Account
I've had both your problems, but on separate machines. Perhaps your 2 issues are independent? 1. SMP I got that reply from SUSE in the past. After much protest on my part, they suggested that I turn off ACPI support (a boot option) since it is not SMP safe. Happiness! 2. NICs Are your 2 cards rtl8139 s? They did poorly for me. (Conflicted with Promise controller, apparently). I got a multi-ethernet card (DEC Tulip card <$100 on ebay). Stable and fast! This one looks similar (but I have no interest or knowledge of the vendor): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411850319&category=28029 Hope this helps. Paul Alfille On Wednesday 09 April 2003 14:13, Robert Fenney wrote:
I just got a reply back from SuSE that troubles me a little. Basically, they do not provide installation support for SMP based systems. But they did point out that I could purchase a support package. So I guess I am back to solving this one on my own (unless a kind sole has a suggestion.) I seem to remember that Redhat provided installation support for SMP systems. Does anyone know off of the top of their head?
Thanks everyone!
Robert
On Wednesday, April 9, 2003, at 12:41 AM, Robert Fenney wrote:
O.K.
I have build three systems and upgraded a 8.0 to 8.1 over the last couple of weeks and have had some problems:
1) It looks like that USB keyboards and Mice don't work but default. In 8.0 I configured the system them changed to the USB device and that was it. This is not true in 8.1.
2) When installing 8.0 or 8.1 on a SMP system with two NIC cards the networking does not work. I always have to pull one of the cards, get the networking up and running and then install the second card. I messed with one of my systems in 8.0 and got it working and then promptly forgot about it think it would be fixed in the next release. Well it is not and I my system has two NICs on the motherboard so I can't just pull one like before. Besides I would really like to document the problem this time around. So has anyone else seen this?
3) Has anyone worked with any of the file systems that support large files ( greater than 1 or 2 gigs?) I use Reiser but maybe it is time to look at one of the other file systems if Reiser does not support this?
4) I know that there has been a lot of bandwidth on the system shutdown behavior with the SMP kernels but really isn't it about time for SuSE to fix this? I mean really, all of the system house have this working, why do we need to recompile the kernel just for this? The behavior should be the same between the single CPU and multi-CPU kernels out of the box.
I am not trying to flame I just think that after two years of seeing the same issues they should be fixed. And before you say get the compiler and the source I pay for the upgrades from SuSE and I want to be a "USER" on these issues so I pay them by purchasing the upgrades.
Thanks if anyone can help. I also sent a similar request into SuSE support so I will let you know what I here if anyone is interested.
Robert
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Thanks Paul, I think the NICs are INTEL chip sets. This is a tyan 2505 mobo with dual PIII cpus. Everything works great in SuSE 8.0 but it is giving me fits getting 8.1 running. I have spent over a week so far. I have disables the onboard NICs and tried three different cards ad have the same problem with the network. I just disabled the ACPI in the bios and will let you know what happens. If this does not work, I am going to fall back to 8.0 on this system. Thanks! Robert On Thursday, April 10, 2003, at 05:43 PM, Paul Alfille wrote:
I've had both your problems, but on separate machines. Perhaps your 2 issues are independent?
1. SMP I got that reply from SUSE in the past. After much protest on my part, they suggested that I turn off ACPI support (a boot option) since it is not SMP safe. Happiness!
2. NICs Are your 2 cards rtl8139 s? They did poorly for me. (Conflicted with Promise controller, apparently). I got a multi-ethernet card (DEC Tulip card <$100 on ebay). Stable and fast! This one looks similar (but I have no interest or knowledge of the vendor): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411850319&category=28029
Hope this helps.
Paul Alfille
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 14:13, Robert Fenney wrote:
I just got a reply back from SuSE that troubles me a little. Basically, they do not provide installation support for SMP based systems. But they did point out that I could purchase a support package. So I guess I am back to solving this one on my own (unless a kind sole has a suggestion.) I seem to remember that Redhat provided installation support for SMP systems. Does anyone know off of the top of their head?
Thanks everyone!
Robert
On Wednesday, April 9, 2003, at 12:41 AM, Robert Fenney wrote:
O.K.
I have build three systems and upgraded a 8.0 to 8.1 over the last couple of weeks and have had some problems:
1) It looks like that USB keyboards and Mice don't work but default. In 8.0 I configured the system them changed to the USB device and that was it. This is not true in 8.1.
2) When installing 8.0 or 8.1 on a SMP system with two NIC cards the networking does not work. I always have to pull one of the cards, get the networking up and running and then install the second card. I messed with one of my systems in 8.0 and got it working and then promptly forgot about it think it would be fixed in the next release. Well it is not and I my system has two NICs on the motherboard so I can't just pull one like before. Besides I would really like to document the problem this time around. So has anyone else seen this?
3) Has anyone worked with any of the file systems that support large files ( greater than 1 or 2 gigs?) I use Reiser but maybe it is time to look at one of the other file systems if Reiser does not support this?
4) I know that there has been a lot of bandwidth on the system shutdown behavior with the SMP kernels but really isn't it about time for SuSE to fix this? I mean really, all of the system house have this working, why do we need to recompile the kernel just for this? The behavior should be the same between the single CPU and multi-CPU kernels out of the box.
I am not trying to flame I just think that after two years of seeing the same issues they should be fixed. And before you say get the compiler and the source I pay for the upgrades from SuSE and I want to be a "USER" on these issues so I pay them by purchasing the upgrades.
Thanks if anyone can help. I also sent a similar request into SuSE support so I will let you know what I here if anyone is interested.
Robert
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Thanks Paul, Turning off the ACPI fixed the networking problem. Robert On Friday, April 11, 2003, at 12:40 AM, Robert Fenney wrote:
Thanks Paul,
I think the NICs are INTEL chip sets. This is a tyan 2505 mobo with dual PIII cpus. Everything works great in SuSE 8.0 but it is giving me fits getting 8.1 running. I have spent over a week so far.
I have disables the onboard NICs and tried three different cards ad have the same problem with the network. I just disabled the ACPI in the bios and will let you know what happens. If this does not work, I am going to fall back to 8.0 on this system.
Thanks!
Robert
On Thursday, April 10, 2003, at 05:43 PM, Paul Alfille wrote:
I've had both your problems, but on separate machines. Perhaps your 2 issues are independent?
1. SMP I got that reply from SUSE in the past. After much protest on my part, they suggested that I turn off ACPI support (a boot option) since it is not SMP safe. Happiness!
2. NICs Are your 2 cards rtl8139 s? They did poorly for me. (Conflicted with Promise controller, apparently). I got a multi-ethernet card (DEC Tulip card <$100 on ebay). Stable and fast! This one looks similar (but I have no interest or knowledge of the vendor): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411850319&category=28029
Hope this helps.
Paul Alfille
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 14:13, Robert Fenney wrote:
I just got a reply back from SuSE that troubles me a little. Basically, they do not provide installation support for SMP based systems. But they did point out that I could purchase a support package. So I guess I am back to solving this one on my own (unless a kind sole has a suggestion.) I seem to remember that Redhat provided installation support for SMP systems. Does anyone know off of the top of their head?
Thanks everyone!
Robert
On Wednesday, April 9, 2003, at 12:41 AM, Robert Fenney wrote:
O.K.
I have build three systems and upgraded a 8.0 to 8.1 over the last couple of weeks and have had some problems:
1) It looks like that USB keyboards and Mice don't work but default. In 8.0 I configured the system them changed to the USB device and that was it. This is not true in 8.1.
2) When installing 8.0 or 8.1 on a SMP system with two NIC cards the networking does not work. I always have to pull one of the cards, get the networking up and running and then install the second card. I messed with one of my systems in 8.0 and got it working and then promptly forgot about it think it would be fixed in the next release. Well it is not and I my system has two NICs on the motherboard so I can't just pull one like before. Besides I would really like to document the problem this time around. So has anyone else seen this?
3) Has anyone worked with any of the file systems that support large files ( greater than 1 or 2 gigs?) I use Reiser but maybe it is time to look at one of the other file systems if Reiser does not support this?
4) I know that there has been a lot of bandwidth on the system shutdown behavior with the SMP kernels but really isn't it about time for SuSE to fix this? I mean really, all of the system house have this working, why do we need to recompile the kernel just for this? The behavior should be the same between the single CPU and multi-CPU kernels out of the box.
I am not trying to flame I just think that after two years of seeing the same issues they should be fixed. And before you say get the compiler and the source I pay for the upgrades from SuSE and I want to be a "USER" on these issues so I pay them by purchasing the upgrades.
Thanks if anyone can help. I also sent a similar request into SuSE support so I will let you know what I here if anyone is interested.
Robert
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Robert Fenney
This is exactly the position I am in now. It turns out that SuSE does not support SMP systems in their installation support. Oh well! All of my research and development systems are SMP.
I am surprised that, at least in the UK, they can get away with that. The boxes state that there is installation support and SMP systems meet the 'system requirements' listed on the box. IANAL but this would seem to contravene the Sale of Goods Act 1979 as amended by the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002 in that the goods or services must be as described.
participants (6)
-
Anders Johansson -
Graham Murray -
Kelly L. Fulks -
Ken Schneider -
Paul Alfille -
Robert Fenney