[opensuse] sharing a home dir across multiple different GUIs/versions ?

newer
[opensuse] Setting NumLock to On...

Per Jessen

5 Apr 2016 5 Apr '16

08:51

I haven't looked into this yet, just thinking out loud - what issues might there be in sharing a homedir (via NFS) between multiple versions of e.g. KDE? We have KDE3, 4 and -5 for instance. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.1°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Show replies by date

Xen

5 Apr 5 Apr

09:29

Per Jessen schreef op 05-04-16 10:51:

...

I haven't looked into this yet, just thinking out loud - what issues might there be in sharing a homedir (via NFS) between multiple versions of e.g. KDE?

We have KDE3, 4 and -5 for instance.

I thought it was going to be about "sharing a home" :P. Just what I know is that using the same dir = instant mayhem. Many people in the past have reported issues stemming from kde4->5 upgrade that could only be resolved (easily) by wiping all config files clean, especially .kde (if it uses that same directory). I have no more info than that, other than that: - different systems (distributions) may have programs of different versions using the same config files with a different structure/model, resulting in incompatibility between versions. This does not arise if you have only one distribution, but a common use case is to use multiple. - backward compatibility is notoriously bad in Linux compared to other systems (or even on its own): Gnome/GTK3 keeps breaking pretty much everything with every minor version. Consumer oriented applications like Thunderbird might not suffer as much from this; the database for TB 24 appears to be identical as for TB 38. But KDE specific apps might see a lot of that. So what is left is: what about .cache? what about .local? Everything else is going to be fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Ruediger Meier

10:34

On Tuesday 05 April 2016, Xen wrote:

...

Per Jessen schreef op 05-04-16 10:51:

...
I haven't looked into this yet, just thinking out loud - what issues might there be in sharing a homedir (via NFS) between multiple versions of e.g. KDE?

We have KDE3, 4 and -5 for instance.

I thought it was going to be about "sharing a home" :P.

Just what I know is that using the same dir = instant mayhem.

Many people in the past have reported issues stemming from kde4->5 upgrade that could only be resolved (easily) by wiping all config files clean, especially .kde (if it uses that same directory).

I have no more info than that, other than that:

- different systems (distributions) may have programs of different versions using the same config files with a different structure/model, resulting in incompatibility between versions. This does not arise if you have only one distribution, but a common use case is to use multiple.

- backward compatibility is notoriously bad in Linux compared to other systems (or even on its own): Gnome/GTK3 keeps breaking pretty much everything with every minor version.

That's not true. Most Unix/Linux window managers and programs do it right. Stupidly the few broken ones (gnome/kde/etc) are mostly used.

...

Consumer oriented applications like Thunderbird might not suffer as much from this; the database for TB 24 appears to be identical as for TB 38. But KDE specific apps might see a lot of that.

Firefox and Thunderbird are worst. They are not even able to run twice on the same machine (e.g. ssh -X or vnc, etc.). It's a real pain. Obviously the new spirit is to remove all multi-tasking capabilities. Software developers and designers want to force users to only do one thing at the the same time. Apps are starting in full screen by default or continously steal the focus. Websites have font sizes for blind people per default. If there is still space left on the latest 4K monitors then they fill it with utopic huge buttons or stupid pictures. A default pulse audio setup can only play sound for one user at the same time. Remote users are not able to play sound. Switching to console turns off the sound... Anyways... kde3 did and still does a good job to handle multiple simultaneous logins on different machines with shared NFS homes. About backward compatibility. IMO programs which "destroy" their own config files on version upgrade are simply broken. Please report bugs! I prefer to use programs which _never_ write something to their config files without asking me explicitly.

...

So what is left is:

what about .cache? what about .local?

Everything else is going to be fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Dave Howorth

10:52

On 2016-04-05 11:34, Ruediger Meier wrote:

...

Firefox and Thunderbird are worst. They are not even able to run twice on the same machine (e.g. ssh -X or vnc, etc.). It's a real pain.

That's nonsense. I regularly run multiple sessions on one display with any combination of different machines and different users hosting the applications. What you do need to do is use the -no-remote option to prevent sharing sessions, as well as of course using separate profiles if that is what you want. Cheers, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Ruediger Meier

11:00

On Tuesday 05 April 2016, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

On 2016-04-05 11:34, Ruediger Meier wrote:

...
Firefox and Thunderbird are worst. They are not even able to run twice on the same machine (e.g. ssh -X or vnc, etc.). It's a real pain.

That's nonsense. I regularly run multiple sessions on one display with any combination of different machines and different users hosting the applications. What you do need to do is use the -no-remote option to prevent sharing sessions, as well as of course using separate profiles if that is what you want.

I do _not_ want to use separate profiles. What you are doing is exact the oposite of what the OP was asking for. He want's to use the _same_ configs without maintaining several ones. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Dave Howorth

11:08

On 2016-04-05 12:00, Ruediger Meier wrote:

...

On Tuesday 05 April 2016, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On 2016-04-05 11:34, Ruediger Meier wrote:

...
Firefox and Thunderbird are worst. They are not even able to run twice on the same machine (e.g. ssh -X or vnc, etc.). It's a real pain.

That's nonsense. I regularly run multiple sessions on one display with any combination of different machines and different users hosting the applications. What you do need to do is use the -no-remote option to prevent sharing sessions, as well as of course using separate profiles if that is what you want.

I do _not_ want to use separate profiles.

That's fine then, don't use separate profiles. That's why I said "if that is what you want"!

...

What you are doing is exact the oposite of what the OP was asking for. He want's to use the _same_ configs without maintaining several ones.

He said no such thing. I'll let Per speak for himself as to his intentions, thank you. and PS don't send me a copy of any reply. I am subscribed! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Ruediger Meier

11:44

On Tuesday 05 April 2016, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

On 2016-04-05 12:00, Ruediger Meier wrote:

...
On Tuesday 05 April 2016, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On 2016-04-05 11:34, Ruediger Meier wrote:

...
Firefox and Thunderbird are worst. They are not even able to run twice on the same machine (e.g. ssh -X or vnc, etc.). It's a real pain.

That's nonsense. I regularly run multiple sessions on one display with any combination of different machines and different users hosting the applications. What you do need to do is use the -no-remote option to prevent sharing sessions, as well as of course using separate profiles if that is what you want.

I do _not_ want to use separate profiles.

That's fine then, don't use separate profiles. That's why I said "if that is what you want"!

Actually you said that I am talking "nonsense". But your response simply describes in detail what I was calling already "a real pain" in short.

...

...
What you are doing is exact the oposite of what the OP was asking for. He want's to use the _same_ configs without maintaining several ones.

He said no such thing.

What else should be the reason to share /home via NFS? I guess nobody wants to share homes just for the fun that any stupid program like firefox would require some exotic options to be able to run with different config files ... to behave like unshared homes.

...

I'll let Per speak for himself as to his intentions, thank you.

and PS don't send me a copy of any reply. I am subscribed! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

12:33

Ruediger Meier wrote:

...

On Tuesday 05 April 2016, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On 2016-04-05 11:34, Ruediger Meier wrote:

...
Firefox and Thunderbird are worst. They are not even able to run twice on the same machine (e.g. ssh -X or vnc, etc.). It's a real pain.

That's nonsense. I regularly run multiple sessions on one display with any combination of different machines and different users hosting the applications. What you do need to do is use the -no-remote option to prevent sharing sessions, as well as of course using separate profiles if that is what you want.

I do _not_ want to use separate profiles. What you are doing is exact the oposite of what the OP was asking for. He want's to use the _same_ configs without maintaining several ones.

Yep, one account, /home shared over NFS, user possibly logged in from multiple systems with different KDE versions. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (15.8°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink

13:08

Op dinsdag 5 april 2016 14:33:32 CEST schreef Per Jessen:

...

Ruediger Meier wrote:

...
On Tuesday 05 April 2016, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On 2016-04-05 11:34, Ruediger Meier wrote:

...
Firefox and Thunderbird are worst. They are not even able to run twice on the same machine (e.g. ssh -X or vnc, etc.). It's a real pain.

That's nonsense. I regularly run multiple sessions on one display with any combination of different machines and different users hosting the applications. What you do need to do is use the -no-remote option to prevent sharing sessions, as well as of course using separate profiles if that is what you want.

I do _not_ want to use separate profiles. What you are doing is exact the oposite of what the OP was asking for. He want's to use the _same_ configs without maintaining several ones.

Yep, one account, /home shared over NFS, user possibly logged in from multiple systems with different KDE versions.

Tell me that you're using Kontact as well and I can save your day: DON'T. To refer to a recent thread you were in: users would have to reconfigure their PrtScn hotkey on every session different from the previous one. You'd speak to the users a lot though: Kwrite in KDE4 after a Plasma5 session doesn't show the most recent doc worked on. kMail in KDE3 lost all the replies made in kMail2 on Plasma5. How about external password changes? -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward

13:32

On 04/05/2016 08:33 AM, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Yep, one account, /home shared over NFS, user possibly logged in from multiple systems with different KDE versions.

Hmm, sounds like a security violation, someone else using your login credentials at a different location. There should be a way to prevent NFS from allowing that to happen, but there isn't; after all, some sites might want to share "/usr/share" and have it mounted, simultaneously, by many users. Sounds line LTP to me. http://www.ltsp.org/ Oh the joys of being an admin in a network based environment. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

18:53

Anton Aylward wrote:

...

On 04/05/2016 08:33 AM, Per Jessen wrote:

...
Yep, one account, /home shared over NFS, user possibly logged in from multiple systems with different KDE versions.

Hmm, sounds like a security violation, someone else using your login credentials at a different location.

No, just someone moving between buildings for instance. Logged into his regular workstation in the office, then popped downstairs to check on something, then logged on to a local machine to access a document in /home or some such.

...

Sounds line LTP to me. http://www.ltsp.org/

Something along those lines - what I'd really like to have is what SUN did years ago - in the Sun offices you could move your x-session from one place to another just by swiping your smartcard. I think that was Sun proprietary though. /Per -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer

19:08

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

...

...
Sounds line LTP to me. http://www.ltsp.org/

Something along those lines - what I'd really like to have is what SUN did years ago - in the Sun offices you could move your x-session from one place to another just by swiping your smartcard. I think that was Sun proprietary though.

Surely that can still be done? Possibly without the smartcard, but with a login/password. Sadly, I know how to do it in Windows because I run long lived tasks that can take a day or two to finish. I need the ability to log into my windows servers and see the GUI regardless of where I'm physically at. On the server (individual's desktop PC) allow RDP (remote desktop). When local to the server/desktop, login and use it as normal. When remote, just connect to the desktop via RDP. The RDP session moves to the latest connection and drops the previous connection. I do it all the time. I'll be pretty disappointed if Linux can't do that for X, but I normally use SSH for remote access to Linux boxes. Combining that with screen lets you move terminal sessions from one physical location to another. Greg -- Greg Freemyer www.IntelligentAvatar.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

20:38

Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

...
...
Sounds line LTP to me. http://www.ltsp.org/

Something along those lines - what I'd really like to have is what SUN did years ago - in the Sun offices you could move your x-session from one place to another just by swiping your smartcard. I think that was Sun proprietary though.

Surely that can still be done? Possibly without the smartcard, but with a login/password.

The smartcard wouldn't be needed, userid/password is better/sufficient.

...

Sadly, I know how to do it in Windows because I run long lived tasks that can take a day or two to finish. I need the ability to log into my windows servers and see the GUI regardless of where I'm physically at.

On the server (individual's desktop PC) allow RDP (remote desktop).

When local to the server/desktop, login and use it as normal.

When remote, just connect to the desktop via RDP. The RDP session moves to the latest connection and drops the previous connection.

I do it all the time.

Sounds exactly like what I could do with. Letting someone login on multiple workstations is really just a workaround.

...

I'll be pretty disappointed if Linux can't do that for X, but I normally use SSH for remote access to Linux boxes.

Ditto.

...

Combining that with screen lets you move terminal sessions from one physical location to another.

I did investigate this a while back, maybe ten years ago. I think it fell over, there just wasn't anything equivalent to the Sun Ray setup. /Per -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer

22:32

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 4:38 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Greg Freemyer wrote:

...
On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

...
...
Sounds line LTP to me. http://www.ltsp.org/

Something along those lines - what I'd really like to have is what SUN did years ago - in the Sun offices you could move your x-session from one place to another just by swiping your smartcard. I think that was Sun proprietary though.

Surely that can still be done? Possibly without the smartcard, but with a login/password.

The smartcard wouldn't be needed, userid/password is better/sufficient.

...
Sadly, I know how to do it in Windows because I run long lived tasks that can take a day or two to finish. I need the ability to log into my windows servers and see the GUI regardless of where I'm physically at.

On the server (individual's desktop PC) allow RDP (remote desktop).

When local to the server/desktop, login and use it as normal.

When remote, just connect to the desktop via RDP. The RDP session moves to the latest connection and drops the previous connection.

I do it all the time.

Sounds exactly like what I could do with. Letting someone login on multiple workstations is really just a workaround.

Looking on line it seems the XRDP session server allows session takeover of an X-session. The second answer here claims to have it working on Ubuntu with Gnome: http://askubuntu.com/questions/235905/use-xrdp-to-connect-to-desktop-session They are using: Xrdp, vino, and a RDP client. ==> Vino Is a VNC server for Gnome. I assume there is something similar for KDE? (vino is in factory) ==> Xrdp https://github.com/neutrinolabs/xrdp/wiki It's in OBS: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/X11:RemoteDesktop/xrdp There was a git commit just 3 days ago, so it is still being developed: https://github.com/neutrinolabs/xrdp But the last release was almost 2 years ago. The version in OBS is pulled from GIT 6 months ago (I think). ==> RDP client For the client you can use any Windows PC ;) Or rdesktop is in factory (and has been for years). https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/X11:Utilities/rdesktop TBH, I haven't used rdesktop in 3 or 4 years, but I wasn't very happy with it at the time. I've forgotten what my issues were. I think I had a couple bugzillas open at the time. HTH Greg -- Greg Freemyer www.IntelligentAvatar.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

6 Apr 6 Apr

03:08

On 2016-04-05 21:08, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Sadly, I know how to do it in Windows because I run long lived tasks that can take a day or two to finish. I need the ability to log into my windows servers and see the GUI regardless of where I'm physically at.

On the server (individual's desktop PC) allow RDP (remote desktop).

When local to the server/desktop, login and use it as normal.

When remote, just connect to the desktop via RDP. The RDP session moves to the latest connection and drops the previous connection.

I do it all the time.

That is similar in Linux to what would be done in text mode with tmux. There is a single session, running in one machine only, but which can be displayed in different computers. It is very different from the original question here of login on the same home on different computers. It is a new login, a new session, running in the new computer, not a retake of the previous session. The equivalent in Linux are technologies to transmit the graphical session and display/control it on different computers. For instance, VNC. I've not heard of the ability to shift a running remote X session from one machine to another natively, though. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

Patrick Shanahan

5 Apr 5 Apr

21:20

* Per Jessen [04-05-16 14:53]:

...

Anton Aylward wrote:

...
On 04/05/2016 08:33 AM, Per Jessen wrote:

...
Yep, one account, /home shared over NFS, user possibly logged in from multiple systems with different KDE versions.

Hmm, sounds like a security violation, someone else using your login credentials at a different location.

No, just someone moving between buildings for instance. Logged into his regular workstation in the office, then popped downstairs to check on something, then logged on to a local machine to access a document in /home or some such.

...
Sounds line LTP to me. http://www.ltsp.org/

Something along those lines - what I'd really like to have is what SUN did years ago - in the Sun offices you could move your x-session from one place to another just by swiping your smartcard. I think that was Sun proprietary though.

Looks like to me that this would be a better case for tmux (or screen). ssh into the "home" machine and run remotely. I do that when I travel. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Xen

12:48

Ruediger Meier schreef op 05-04-16 12:34:

...

On Tuesday 05 April 2016, Xen wrote:

...
- backward compatibility is notoriously bad in Linux compared to other systems (or even on its own): Gnome/GTK3 keeps breaking pretty much everything with every minor version. That's not true. Most Unix/Linux window managers and programs do it right. Stupidly the few broken ones (gnome/kde/etc) are mostly used.

So the question is: does your distinction matter in practice? But there appear to also be issues with binary compatibility and library compatibility to begin with. I didn't make up that statement. I was referring to some thought expressed in that large online document that was recently linked to. The one that compared binary compatibility and backward-compatibleness of Linux versus other systems. I don't want to go into that now here.

...

...
Consumer oriented applications like Thunderbird might not suffer as much from this; the database for TB 24 appears to be identical as for TB 38. But KDE specific apps might see a lot of that. Firefox and Thunderbird are worst. They are not even able to run twice on the same machine (e.g. ssh -X or vnc, etc.). It's a real pain. I think I was merely talking about version differences. If the OP also wants to log in multiple times on the same account, that is another issue.

...

Obviously the new spirit is to remove all multi-tasking capabilities. Software developers and designers want to force users to only do one thing at the the same time. Apps are starting in full screen by default or continously steal the focus. Websites have font sizes for blind people per default. If there is still space left on the latest 4K monitors then they fill it with utopic huge buttons or stupid pictures. A default pulse audio setup can only play sound for one user at the same time. Remote users are not able to play sound. Switching to console turns off the sound... Anyways...

Yeah I agree with that I think. I've never had to do any kind of remote program running, so I have not run into these issues myself on Linux. That saying I have never run a remote "client" across a network link (for X).

...

kde3 did and still does a good job to handle multiple simultaneous logins on different machines with shared NFS homes.

Okay. What of today?

...

About backward compatibility. IMO programs which "destroy" their own config files on version upgrade are simply broken. Please report bugs! I prefer to use programs which _never_ write something to their config files without asking me explicitly.

Yes, or they are broken by design, or becaus the designer doesn't care about it. Just think of the vast number of library updates constantly being pushed on Linux. There are just no long term fixed platforms that any app designer can depend on. Sometimes you have a release that stays consistent for some time, but it still means you need to package (and build?) for every version of every distribution instead of just one binary package for all. There are no agreed-upon Linux-wide "platforms". It is easy to say something is just broken. Then you don't have to blame the tree for the fruit. (Same way is to say that these are just bad apples, the rest of the tree is perfect). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward

14:23

On 04/05/2016 08:48 AM, Xen wrote:

...

So the question is: does your distinction matter in practice? But there appear to also be issues with binary compatibility and library compatibility to begin with. I didn't make up that statement. I was referring to some thought expressed in that large online document that was recently linked to. The one that compared binary compatibility and backward-compatibleness of Linux versus other systems. I don't want to go into that now here.

You mean you don't want to get into the fruitless debate over whether Linux should of 2016/kernel-4.x series should be able to run non-ELF binaries such as the old SCO format? Well IIR the early IBM /360 machines ahd to have an 'emulation mode' (I think it was even in microcode!) to be able to run the old 1403 binaries, because the customers had such a large investment in 1403 code. Perhaps that once applied to the SCO->linux changeover. Hmm, I seem to recall something like that but I don't recall using it. But today, its not as if we are running 'compatibility mode so that we can run MS-Windows applications on our cell phones. Oh, wait a minute, yes there is WINE... Somewhere along the line one has to let go of the past. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward

14:28

On 04/05/2016 08:48 AM, Xen wrote:

...

I think I was merely talking about version differences. If the OP also wants to log in multiple times on the same account, that is another issue.

I seem to recall that was part of the justification for X-Windows, that one could have multiple sessions without having to log in multiple times. I know that how I use xterm/konsole/gnometerminal. Yes, multiple processes. No need to log in and do the NFS mount of /home/${USER} or associated subdirectories multiple times. And yes, I still get to use the CLI in each bash session in the xterm.... -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

6 Apr 6 Apr

05:35

Anton Aylward wrote:

...

On 04/05/2016 08:48 AM, Xen wrote:

...
I think I was merely talking about version differences. If the OP also wants to log in multiple times on the same account, that is another issue.

I seem to recall that was part of the justification for X-Windows, that one could have multiple sessions without having to log in multiple times.

You can, but only from the same pc/workstation. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.1°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

John Andersen

05:48

On April 5, 2016 10:35:28 PM PDT, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Anton Aylward wrote:

...
On 04/05/2016 08:48 AM, Xen wrote:

...
I think I was merely talking about version differences. If the OP also wants to log in multiple times on the same account, that is another issue.

I seem to recall that was part of the justification for X-Windows, that one could have multiple sessions without having to log in multiple times.

You can, but only from the same pc/workstation.

Wait, what ? I often have sessions from different machines open on my desktop, and applications running on multiple remote machines displayed on my desktop as well. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

05:57

John Andersen wrote:

...

On April 5, 2016 10:35:28 PM PDT, Per Jessen wrote:

...
Anton Aylward wrote:

...
On 04/05/2016 08:48 AM, Xen wrote:

...
I think I was merely talking about version differences. If the OP also wants to log in multiple times on the same account, that is another issue.

I seem to recall that was part of the justification for X-Windows, that one could have multiple sessions without having to log in multiple times.

You can, but only from the same pc/workstation.

Wait, what ?

I often have sessions from different machines open on my desktop, and applications running on multiple remote machines displayed on my desktop as well.

Yes, but you're also logged in multiple times, presumably? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.1°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Xen

10:36

Per Jessen schreef op 06-04-16 07:57:

...

John Andersen wrote:

...
Wait, what ?

I often have sessions from different machines open on my desktop, and applications running on multiple remote machines displayed on my desktop as well.

Yes, but you're also logged in multiple times, presumably?

But let's get back to the issue. Is there any problem with multiple sessions (logins) using the same /home? Because depending on the application, there might be. I'm sure there is not any form of good design being done here that should guarantee proper behaviour. I remember at one time I was using Opera Mail, which was then called M2 and part of the Opera suite (the old version). I opened a second instance by accident and that corrupted the index so completely it became completely unusable. And I did not know how to fix that. I may have lost a lot of email there and then, and at that point I switched to IMAP and Thunderbird only. Thunderbird however has thrown away email as well which was much worse. Upon compressing/condensing the email store, it just threw away 2 months of email and deleted it from the server as well. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Lindsay Mathieson

10:41

On 6/04/2016 8:36 PM, Xen wrote:

...

Is there any problem with multiple sessions (logins) using the same /home?

Basically yes. Bad things well happens - apps are not designed for this. -- Lindsay Mathieson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

10:44

Lindsay Mathieson wrote:

...

On 6/04/2016 8:36 PM, Xen wrote:

...
Is there any problem with multiple sessions (logins) using the same /home?

Basically yes. Bad things well happens - apps are not designed for this.

In particular if they're from different generations. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.9°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

10:58

On 2016-04-06 12:44, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Lindsay Mathieson wrote:

...
On 6/04/2016 8:36 PM, Xen wrote:

...
Is there any problem with multiple sessions (logins) using the same /home?

Basically yes. Bad things well happens - apps are not designed for this.

In particular if they're from different generations.

Apps should be designed for this, it is not that difficult. At least, detect if another instance is running and bail out, or switch to read only mode, if you can't be bothered to develop for concurrent access :-( -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink

11:09

Op woensdag 6 april 2016 12:58:22 CEST schreef Carlos E. R.:

...

On 2016-04-06 12:44, Per Jessen wrote:

...
Lindsay Mathieson wrote:

...
On 6/04/2016 8:36 PM, Xen wrote:

...
Is there any problem with multiple sessions (logins) using the same /home?

Basically yes. Bad things well happens - apps are not designed for this.

In particular if they're from different generations.

Apps should be designed for this, it is not that difficult. At least, detect if another instance is running and bail out, or switch to read only mode, if you can't be bothered to develop for concurrent access :-(

Well, to be honest, I don't know why this thread is still going on. The original question, after elaboration from Per's side to become "user X logs in anywhere on any KDE version on any machine in a network with nfs distributed / home, is this possible? , has been answered with proper reasoning: can't be done, shouldn't be done.

...

From a sysadmin's perspective some of the posts make me shiver :).

-- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Xen

11:32

Carlos E. R. schreef op 06-04-16 12:58:

...

On 2016-04-06 12:44, Per Jessen wrote:

...
Lindsay Mathieson wrote:

...
On 6/04/2016 8:36 PM, Xen wrote:

...
Is there any problem with multiple sessions (logins) using the same /home?

Basically yes. Bad things well happens - apps are not designed for this.

In particular if they're from different generations.

Apps should be designed for this, it is not that difficult. At least, detect if another instance is running and bail out, or switch to read only mode, if you can't be bothered to develop for concurrent access :-(

Yeah that shouldn't be too hard....... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Xen

11:31

New subject: [opensuse] sourcing home from a NAS

Now that we are on this subject anyway, I want to know if any of you have experience or thoughts on how to combine your /home with the /home of a central server in your network such as a NAS. Currently I just have 1 computer running Linux that I use as a desktop. I find the following issues in my current life: - it is troublesome to maintain the same (user-crafted) scripts on every machine I end up using (I would possibly need to use Git and then symlink to it or something) - same is true for .bashrc and .vimrc Maybe they are small things but it is annoying to me. If there is one thing I hate doing is to repeat the same configuration again. But now I also have access to a NAS that shares its /home. * I *could* keep all of my regular documents on there but the thing is not encrypted and if I do choose that it is going to be eCryptFS. * I know with a little tinkering you can get LUKS-encrypted file containers that get opened on login, but I'm not sure the NAS would support that * The nas exports its /home using Samba, but I could use NFS as well. Samba means all files have the same ownership (which is nice) but it also means they all have the same permissions (which may not be nice) --> especially concerning executable scripts. * Supposing I had a different computer here (which I do have; but it could also just be a laptop) placing common files (documents, private data) on the shared account (my NAS account) could become really pleasant. There are two issues: 1. Security 2. Safety The NAS doesn't support any encryption other than eCryptFS. If you sync towards the NAS with e.g. a sync script (rsync) or FreeFileSync, it would mean that the shared home would not be current at all times; this does decouple the system and allows your system to function even when the NAS is down. As said before you can basically have two models: 1. Local copy is prime, sync to NAS == backup on NAS 2. NAS copy is prime, create regular backups on data partition of local system. 1. Useful for laptop. NAS can create its own backups. Moving to a different system and having up to date files requires sync. If syncing was automatic background daemon, no need to worry ever probably. Regular backup tasks to tar archive easy to configure on NAS Changes on NAS itself also propagate to other systems. 2. Sync is not required but you have no local copy. For safety, your local system must make backups that have some history (keep multiple versions) NAS can make backups too, but backups are now spread around OR local system must sync the backups (now backups are synced instead of regular files). So it seems the first model creates and maintains a local copy but syncs to the NAS where backups are created and kept. The second model does not maintain local copies but instead seeks to redistribute backups of the data store. Have you any thoughts on this? This does not answer any question about OS/distribution-specific files and probably pertains only to the "shared data" that is going to be the same for any operating system. Such shared data however may also contain programming projects that need executable permissions on Linux. So you have three kinds: * completely agnostic * problematic with CRLF/LF line endings (Git handles this) * local installation specific files So it seems you have 3 ways of dealing with it: * collections of general documents are the same on all systems (might want to keep DOS line endings on them) * Git repositories need a local copy anyway (compilation speeds, etc.) * just don't share your real /home. For me this implies at least 3 different directories: * Media collections are on a shared "media" share on the NAS * Private data could be on a shared "home" share on the NAS * Projects require high IO performance and need their local copy. * Real /home is going to give trouble anyway, scripts and config files could be manually copied, as long as you have a central master copy somewhere. ** Never depend on application-specific data stores (program-specific databases) for the safety and longevity of your data This implies: * Just use Git or equivalent to manage the syncing of source trees * If you use Git on the NAS too, don't put it in /home of that NAS * If you do image/video work, you would probably use the same system for that (single system), either keep this data local or put backup copies in the shared home. * If you use Git, it uses the first model (sync to remote) Thoughts? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Ruediger Meier

14:34

New subject: [opensuse] sourcing home from a NAS

On Wednesday 06 April 2016, Xen wrote:

...

Now that we are on this subject anyway,

I want to know if any of you have experience or thoughts on how to combine your /home with the /home of a central server in your network such as a NAS.

We are running /home via NFS for our desktop machines but the desktops have usually all the same arch and Linux distro. In our case we wouldn't have much problems if we would run different distros because most users do not use bloated desktop managers but unproblematic ones like i3, e16 or fluxbox. Our users know that they should link their own installed binaries statically to survive distro upgrades. To sync /home between laptops and desktops you may look at unison. https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/ It's like a config file based rsync in both direction plus conflict resolving. Try to have only small exclude lists which are easy to maintain. BTW this unison setup solves the backup problem for the laptops. You can invoke the unison run manually whenever you find a fast WiFi with ssh access to your NAS /home.

...

Currently I just have 1 computer running Linux that I use as a desktop.

I find the following issues in my current life:

- it is troublesome to maintain the same (user-crafted) scripts on every machine I end up using (I would possibly need to use Git and then symlink to it or something)

- same is true for .bashrc and .vimrc

Regardless of the way how you sync /home it's IMO a good idea to have the most important dot files in a git repo. Maybe different branches for different distro/OS if necessary. But one should try to keep the differences as small as possible. Such git repo is always handy if you get a login for another machine. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

7 Apr 7 Apr

12:06

New subject: [opensuse] sourcing home from a NAS

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2016-04-06 at 15:34 +0100, Ruediger Meier wrote:

...

To sync /home between laptops and desktops you may look at unison. https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/

It's like a config file based rsync in both direction plus conflict resolving. Try to have only small exclude lists which are easy to maintain.

However, you must be careful to run it each time you start using each machine, before you do any change to files. Otherwise, you may end with files that were changed on both machines: unison can not decide in each case which version to keep.

...

...
- same is true for .bashrc and .vimrc

Regardless of the way how you sync /home it's IMO a good idea to have the most important dot files in a git repo. Maybe different branches for different distro/OS if necessary. But one should try to keep the differences as small as possible. Such git repo is always handy if you get a login for another machine.

Interesting... - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlcGTUoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XlSwCfWmA/oZuppJDyOJ4lIuXpZ77p SdoAoIoJOA18P7ApXHLkGEqA7QCvrC/U =+FXX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Dave Howorth

5 Apr 5 Apr

09:40

On 2016-04-05 09:51, Per Jessen wrote:

...

I haven't looked into this yet, just thinking out loud - what issues might there be in sharing a homedir (via NFS) between multiple versions of e.g. KDE?

We have KDE3, 4 and -5 for instance.

All on the same machine or across a network? Not that it makes too much difference. A user's home directory nowadays typically has lots of .directories that are specific to particular versions of particular desktops and applications. So except if you want to do a one-time upgrade from one version of a desktop to the next version, it's not wise to share a home directory. Instead have an individual home directory for each version and have a separate home-data directory mounted elsewhere. Then create symlinks in each home directory into subdirectories of the home-data directory to access your files. Some apps may need special consideration: you'll need to craft an individual solution for whichever mail client you use if you want to share that among desktops, for example. HTH, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Bjoern Voigt

10:49

Per Jessen wrote:

...

I haven't looked into this yet, just thinking out loud - what issues might there be in sharing a homedir (via NFS) between multiple versions of e.g. KDE?

We have KDE3, 4 and -5 for instance. Here you find some hints:

https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Install_another_distribution#Sharing_access_to_d... Greetings, Björn -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Freek de Kruijf

11:32

Op dinsdag 5 april 2016 10:51:01 schreef Per Jessen:

...

I haven't looked into this yet, just thinking out loud - what issues might there be in sharing a homedir (via NFS) between multiple versions of e.g. KDE?

We have KDE3, 4 and -5 for instance.

My solution is to have a partition with basic home dirs with the data that is not changing with different desktops, both visible dirs as well as invisible dirs (.*). You must be careful in choosing which ones are independent of the desktop. For each different desktop I have a separate home partition with symbolic links to the dirs on the basic home partition -- fr.gr. member openSUSE Freek de Kruijf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink

12:54

Op dinsdag 5 april 2016 10:51:01 CEST schreef Per Jessen:

...

I haven't looked into this yet, just thinking out loud - what issues might there be in sharing a homedir (via NFS) between multiple versions of e.g. KDE?

We have KDE3, 4 and -5 for instance.

Depends. If user X always logs in on machine Y, uses only one KDE#, none at all. If user X always logs in on the same KDE#, whatever machine, none at all. If user X can log in on whatever machine, whatever KDE#, multiple. I'd avoid the latter situation at all times. Want KDE3? Then KDE3 it is, no login on non-KDE3 machines. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Xen

13:08

Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink schreef op 05-04-16 14:54:

...

Op dinsdag 5 april 2016 10:51:01 CEST schreef Per Jessen:

...
I haven't looked into this yet, just thinking out loud - what issues might there be in sharing a homedir (via NFS) between multiple versions of e.g. KDE?

We have KDE3, 4 and -5 for instance.

Depends. If user X always logs in on machine Y, uses only one KDE#, none at all. If user X always logs in on the same KDE#, whatever machine, none at all. If user X can log in on whatever machine, whatever KDE#, multiple.

I'd avoid the latter situation at all times. Want KDE3? Then KDE3 it is, no login on non-KDE3 machines.

What if you took pains to separate the kde directories. Would the other directories give trouble? (.local, .cache). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink

14:03

New subject: [opensuse] sharing a home dir across multiple different GUIs/versions?

Op dinsdag 5 april 2016 15:08:59 CEST schreef Xen:

...

Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink schreef op 05-04-16 14:54:

...
Op dinsdag 5 april 2016 10:51:01 CEST schreef Per Jessen:

...
I haven't looked into this yet, just thinking out loud - what issues might there be in sharing a homedir (via NFS) between multiple versions of e.g. KDE?

We have KDE3, 4 and -5 for instance.

Depends. If user X always logs in on machine Y, uses only one KDE#, none at all. If user X always logs in on the same KDE#, whatever machine, none at all. If user X can log in on whatever machine, whatever KDE#, multiple.

I'd avoid the latter situation at all times. Want KDE3? Then KDE3 it is, no login on non-KDE3 machines.

What if you took pains to separate the kde directories. Would the other directories give trouble? (.local, .cache).

The problem is that the configuration folders have changed: ~/.kde -> ~/.kde4 -> ~/.config, so an app running in KDE3 won't know what you wanted it to do differently in Plasma5. And even if you'd manage to get some situation where the various KDE instances would read the same f.e. ~/.kde-all config folder, you'd have to deal with the databases for f.e. kmail, korganizer, amarok All in all it would be a heck of a lot of manual effort to be spend on something that would imply having obsoletes installed. Mind, manual effort to achieve this. And no defaults to count on when things break. And they will. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

18:42

New subject: [opensuse] sharing a home dir across multiple different GUIs/versions?

Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:

...

Op dinsdag 5 april 2016 15:08:59 CEST schreef Xen:

...
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink schreef op 05-04-16 14:54:

...
Op dinsdag 5 april 2016 10:51:01 CEST schreef Per Jessen:

...
I haven't looked into this yet, just thinking out loud - what issues might there be in sharing a homedir (via NFS) between multiple versions of e.g. KDE?

We have KDE3, 4 and -5 for instance.

Depends. If user X always logs in on machine Y, uses only one KDE#, none at all. If user X always logs in on the same KDE#, whatever machine, none at all. If user X can log in on whatever machine, whatever KDE#, multiple.

I'd avoid the latter situation at all times. Want KDE3? Then KDE3 it is, no login on non-KDE3 machines.

What if you took pains to separate the kde directories. Would the other directories give trouble? (.local, .cache).

The problem is that the configuration folders have changed: ~/.kde -> ~/.kde4 -> ~/.config, so an app running in KDE3 won't know what you wanted it to do differently in Plasma5.

That's actually fine for the situation I've got in mind. Sure it would be nice if e.g. browser cache, email account settings and such could be shared.

...

And even if you'd manage to get some situation where the various KDE instances would read the same f.e. ~/.kde-all config folder, you'd have to deal with the databases for f.e. kmail, korganizer, amarok

Yes, I am beginning to see the problem. /Per -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

14:37

Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:

...

Op dinsdag 5 april 2016 10:51:01 CEST schreef Per Jessen:

...
I haven't looked into this yet, just thinking out loud - what issues might there be in sharing a homedir (via NFS) between multiple versions of e.g. KDE?

We have KDE3, 4 and -5 for instance.

Depends. If user X always logs in on machine Y, uses only one KDE#, none at all. If user X always logs in on the same KDE#, whatever machine, none at all. If user X can log in on whatever machine, whatever KDE#, multiple.

The latter would be the possible situation.

...

I'd avoid the latter situation at all times.

:-)

...

Want KDE3? Then KDE3 it is, no login on non-KDE3 machines.

I had hoped the user- and kde-specific data might have been kept separate from the rest, but it doesn't sound like that's the case. Freek mentioned a possible setup, I might lok into that some more. Thanks for all the feedback from everyone, it's pretty much as I suspected. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (17.8°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin

17:58

On 04/05/2016 03:51 AM, Per Jessen wrote:

...

I haven't looked into this yet, just thinking out loud - what issues might there be in sharing a homedir (via NFS) between multiple versions of e.g. KDE?

We have KDE3, 4 and -5 for instance.

I had no problem with kde3/kde4 because the desktop configs had different directories (e.g. ~/.kde (for kde3) and ~/.kde4 (for kde4)) drwx------ 5 david david 4096 Jul 13 2014 .kde drwxr-xr-x 3 david david 4096 Jul 18 2014 .kde4 (I guess 7/13/14 was the install date for 13.1, so know I know exactly how long the hard drive has been in use registering over 1.4 million load_cycles... :) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

2942

Age (days ago)

2944

Last active (days ago)

List overview

Download

39 comments

14 participants

participants (14)

Anton Aylward
Bjoern Voigt
Carlos E. R.
Dave Howorth
David C. Rankin
Freek de Kruijf
Greg Freemyer
John Andersen
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink
Lindsay Mathieson
Patrick Shanahan
Per Jessen
Ruediger Meier
Xen