For those of you who aren't aware... Redhat announced that they are discontinuing the consumer version (used to be called Redhat Linux). They are planning to provide support and assistance to the Fedora project but it will not be a branded by Redhat. They've stated that the Fedora version will be for hobbists and enthusiasts. It will have a very short life cycle and will contain bleeding edge package releases. If you want a "business" release then you have to pay for their enterprise versions. In other words, if you wanted a branded stable solid release (used to be Redhat Linux) that was suitable for SOHO or equivalent at a low cost (even $0), well, Redhat no longer provides this. This has resulted in a huge debate on the RH mailing lists. Many are stating that they're going to be moving to SuSE or at least seriously considering SuSE. Gerry
You know, most of Linux is GPL'd or General Public License. An enterprise, is not the general public. Most individuals that run Linux, are enthusiasts and developers who are for the most part running bleading edge software. This is where SuSE and Redhat are suffering, because their stable releases is not enough bleeding edge to attract this audience. So, in a way I understand Redhat wanting to split these two sides. There is a third side, the Workstation side. Which is a stable release, for an average Workstation that is not intended to be a production server. This is what Linux has been for the most part, up to date but is fast moving into the production server market. fredag 03 oktober 2003 18:08 skrev Gerry Doris:
For those of you who aren't aware...
Redhat announced that they are discontinuing the consumer version (used to be called Redhat Linux). They are planning to provide support and assistance to the Fedora project but it will not be a branded by Redhat.
They've stated that the Fedora version will be for hobbists and enthusiasts. It will have a very short life cycle and will contain bleeding edge package releases. If you want a "business" release then you have to pay for their enterprise versions.
In other words, if you wanted a branded stable solid release (used to be Redhat Linux) that was suitable for SOHO or equivalent at a low cost (even $0), well, Redhat no longer provides this.
This has resulted in a huge debate on the RH mailing lists. Many are stating that they're going to be moving to SuSE or at least seriously considering SuSE.
Gerry
In a previous message, "Örn E. Hansen"
Most individuals that run Linux, are enthusiasts and developers who are for the most part running bleading edge software. This is where SuSE and Redhat are suffering, because their stable releases is not enough bleeding edge to attract this audience.
But the market that *needs* to be attracted is users like me - although I'm enthusiastic about linux, I moved to it deliberately to get away from Windows, but as a production system, not an experimental box. I work on linux all day using email, web and MSWord (via crossover office). This is where SuSE (and the other distros) score about the DIY, enthusiast approach - they make it easy to install and configure a linux distro to start working quickly. The stable release is essential for people like me - I can't afford to lose the system to buggy software. So, it's a shame that RH have moved out of the consumer market. I can understand it commercially, though. As you say, most money is with the corporate market - just like it is in the Windows world! John -- John Pettigrew Headstrong Games john@headstrong-games.co.uk Fun : Strategy : Price http://www.headstrong-games.co.uk/ Board games that won't break the bank Valley of the Kings: ransack an ancient Egyptian tomb but beware of mummies!
fredag 03 oktober 2003 18:48 skrev John Pettigrew:
The stable release is essential for people like me - I can't afford to lose the system to buggy software. So, it's a shame that RH have moved out of the consumer market. I can understand it commercially, though. As you say, most money is with the corporate market - just like it is in the Windows world!
Basicly, that's what a workstation is. However, there was once this small company called Microsoft and these BIG company called IBM. One was producing some insignificant OS for a home computer, while the other was dominating the enterprise market. Now, one of these is but a fraction of what it once was, while the other is bigger than anyone would ever imagine. And those who made it happen, are the small consumers like you and me, the small buck consumer who has to use these enterprise computers to do work but the only thing they truly are familiar with is the system they use at home today. But the emerging user, is the enthusiast just like yesterday, the one that expands the use of his little home computer to do more than it was produced to do. They're what is going to decide what systems are used in the enterprise tomorrow, and what systems are they chosing today?
John
Hello all, One of my friend is looking for a paper about the cons and pros of different distros. Anyone has any bookmark about this. Thanks ARiF
On Friday 03 October 2003 18:59 pm, Örn E. Hansen wrote:
fredag 03 oktober 2003 18:48 skrev John Pettigrew:
The stable release is essential for people like me - I can't afford to lose the system to buggy software. So, it's a shame that RH have moved out of the consumer market. I can understand it commercially, though. As you say, most money is with the corporate market - just like it is in the Windows world!
Basicly, that's what a workstation is. However, there was once this small company called Microsoft and these BIG company called IBM. One was producing some insignificant OS for a home computer, while the other was dominating the enterprise market. Now, one of these is but a fraction of what it once was, while the other is bigger than anyone would ever imagine. And those who made it happen, are the small consumers like you and me, the small buck consumer who has to use these enterprise computers to do work but the only thing they truly are familiar with is the system they use at home today. But the emerging user, is the enthusiast just like yesterday, the one that expands the use of his little home computer to do more than it was produced to do. They're what is going to decide what systems are used in the enterprise tomorrow, and what systems are they chosing today?
John
Are you implying that IBM is a fraction of what it once was??? Wrong!!!! -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 10/03/03 19:14 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ "I'm just working here till a good fast-food job opens up."
Could you *please* take this discussion to suse-ot? Philipp
On Sat, 2003-10-04 at 03:45, Philipp Thomas wrote:
Could you *please* take this discussion to suse-ot?
Are _you_ a subscriber? For those thinking of joining the OT list, I thought I'd do you a favor and point out that it's _really_ "off-topic." It's NOT just _SuSE_ off-topic. It's WAY off-topic. I got disgusted with it when people started using it as a venue for puerile comments about politics. Not completely unexpectedly, I saw a message that I had been plonked for complaining about the situation. If that's the sort of list you're looking to join, go for it. You have been warned. It's as close to a usenet group as any list I've ever seen, and that's not a compliment. Most of it is just reposting of Slashdot articles anyway. Regards, dk
I must agree with Philipp, While I am very active on that discussion on Red Hat, it consumes about as many messages as all other messages on the list combined. Nothing personal, but this topic is really Red Hat, not SuSE. Red Hat's decision is of interest to a much smaller percentage of SuSE users already here and those of us that drifted over from Red Hat already have that discussion, in my case, in triplicate as I am member of 4 Red Hat lists, 3 of which are discussing it. Thank you, Buck -----Original Message----- From: Philipp Thomas [mailto:philipp.thomas@t-link.de] Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 4:45 AM To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] Re: Redhat vs SuSE Debate Could you *please* take this discussion to suse-ot? Philipp -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
John Pettigrew wrote:
But the market that *needs* to be attracted is users like me - although I'm enthusiastic about linux, I moved to it deliberately to get away from Windows, but as a production system, not an experimental box. I work on linux all day
[snip] I totally agree. I love Linux and I spend more money on SuSE than I ever did on M$ Windoze, and I like experimental software but if it doesn't work or if you have to sit for hours to just make it work... Na, then I might as well by me a Mac. /Lars
using email, web and MSWord (via crossover office). This is where SuSE (and the other distros) score about the DIY, enthusiast approach - they make it easy to install and configure a linux distro to start working quickly.
The stable release is essential for people like me - I can't afford to lose the system to buggy software. So, it's a shame that RH have moved out of the consumer market. I can understand it commercially, though. As you say, most money is with the corporate market - just like it is in the Windows world!
John
On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 11:08, Gerry Doris wrote:
This has resulted in a huge debate on the RH mailing lists. Many are stating that they're going to be moving to SuSE or at least seriously considering SuSE.
Before I even read the rest of this thread... JOIN THE CLUB. I moved 6 months ago, and haven't looked back. I love SuSE, and will stick with it until they do something dumb (like Red Hat). Please tell everyone on the RH list to come on in! The water's fine! Regards all, dk
On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 18:08, Gerry Doris wrote:
Redhat announced that they are discontinuing the consumer version (used to be called Redhat Linux). They are planning to provide support and assistance to the Fedora project but it will not be a branded by Redhat.
Not exactly... they won't produce full, boxed-sets anymore, but they will continue to provide community with development efforts and new ways to contribute.
They've stated that the Fedora version will be for hobbists and enthusiasts. It will have a very short life cycle and will contain bleeding edge package releases. If you want a "business" release then you have to pay for their enterprise versions.
I think they haven't said exactly thay. I think they stated that if you want a stable product, with longer release cycles, you'd better go on with RHEL. Fedora Linux is the equivalent of Red Hat Linux, which has always been targeted at small customers with lower support needs.
In other words, if you wanted a branded stable solid release (used to be Redhat Linux) that was suitable for SOHO or equivalent at a low cost (even $0), well, Redhat no longer provides this.
Well, RHEL is not exactly cheap, but the RHEL WS is still affordable.
This has resulted in a huge debate on the RH mailing lists. Many are stating that they're going to be moving to SuSE or at least seriously considering SuSE.
Once more, I listen to those mailings lists and can't remember anybody going to make the switch. But don't get me wrong, I use both SuSE and RHL and I like both. SuSE is more desktop-friendly, has better admin tools, but RHL has always had the greatest support (KDE 3.1.4 was available instantly for RHL, Oracle is certified for RHL) and seems geared towards the datacenter and servers.
On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 21:18, Felipe Alfaro Solana wrote:
On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 18:08, Gerry Doris wrote:
Redhat announced that they are discontinuing the consumer version (used to be called Redhat Linux). They are planning to provide support and assistance to the Fedora project but it will not be a branded by Redhat.
Not exactly... they won't produce full, boxed-sets anymore, but they will continue to provide community with development efforts and new ways to contribute.
Well, that's sort of "discontinuing their consumer version," now isn't it?
They've stated that the Fedora version will be for hobbists and enthusiasts. It will have a very short life cycle and will contain bleeding edge package releases. If you want a "business" release then you have to pay for their enterprise versions.
I think they haven't said exactly thay. I think they stated that if you want a stable product, with longer release cycles, you'd better go on with RHEL. Fedora Linux is the equivalent of Red Hat Linux, which has always been targeted at small customers with lower support needs.
Um, okay. You say that RH did NOT say that, then quote them as saying... exactly that.
In other words, if you wanted a branded stable solid release (used to be Redhat Linux) that was suitable for SOHO or equivalent at a low cost (even $0), well, Redhat no longer provides this.
Well, RHEL is not exactly cheap, but the RHEL WS is still affordable.
Obviously, I'm in the wrong line of work. At $300 PER YEAR (if you want updates), I do NOT call Red Hat's Enterprise Workstation affordable for home use. If you can afford this, more power to you. I couldn't even justify this cost to move some engineering workstations off of Unix at Fortune 250 company I work at. At a Microsoft-Select price of something like $75 ONE TIME, I can get XP, free updates, and run every piece of software on the planet. Excuse me? I don't know where RH is thinking that they will sell RHEW. Once again, you've underscored that Red Hat is no longer providing a distro for the home user, or for the market they're supposedly trying to sell this turd to for that matter.
This has resulted in a huge debate on the RH mailing lists. Many are stating that they're going to be moving to SuSE or at least seriously considering SuSE.
Once more, I listen to those mailings lists and can't remember anybody going to make the switch.
Once more, _I_ was subscribed to both, and I made a HUGE stink about the whole deal back in the first part of this year. If you didn't see that thread -- which grew quite large -- you weren't paying attention.
But don't get me wrong, I use both SuSE and RHL and I like both. SuSE is more desktop-friendly, has better admin tools, but RHL has always had the greatest support (KDE 3.1.4 was available instantly for RHL, Oracle is certified for RHL) and seems geared towards the datacenter and servers.
Other people always seem to bundle up things for Red Hat first. Then, to my surprise, it seems to increasingly fall to Debian. SuSE doesn't seem to be very popular with the people who write the software I like to add on to my system. However, I'm hoping that RH's boneheaded moves will cause more people to make the switch, and we can see things start to move in the "right" direction. We compared Red Hat and SuSE's "enterprise" offerings, and found SuSE's to be more "palatable." The costs were almost the same. However, on the one side, you have this Red Hat network deal that you have to play nice with, or you don't get your updates. (Or actually BUY the in-house version STARTING AT $4500!) On the other side, you have mirrored FTP servers that carry the patches for you to download and distribute all you like. That's pretty cut and dry to me. YMMV. I wasn't using it at the time, but I noticed that SuSE went out of their way to make RPM's available for the latest versions of not just KDE, but also Gnome, Samba, and XFree. And, FYI, since you seemed to have missed it, SLES is also certified for for Oracle use. Regards, dk
On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, Felipe Alfaro Solana wrote:
On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 18:08, Gerry Doris wrote:
Redhat announced that they are discontinuing the consumer version (used to be called Redhat Linux). They are planning to provide support and assistance to the Fedora project but it will not be a branded by Redhat.
Not exactly... they won't produce full, boxed-sets anymore, but they will continue to provide community with development efforts and new ways to contribute.
Which means exactly what? Redhat Linux is gone and Redhat has cooked up a scheme to make it look like they're not really leaving. There's a lot of verbage and speculation but no one knows exactly what a community supported distro is. From what I've seen of the RH posts it comes down to if Fedora isn't any good then it will be the fault of the community not RH.
They've stated that the Fedora version will be for hobbists and enthusiasts. It will have a very short life cycle and will contain bleeding edge package releases. If you want a "business" release then you have to pay for their enterprise versions.
I think they haven't said exactly thay. I think they stated that if you want a stable product, with longer release cycles, you'd better go on with RHEL. Fedora Linux is the equivalent of Red Hat Linux, which has always been targeted at small customers with lower support needs.
If you go check the archives (a post to me from a RH employee...forget which one) he said exactly what I mentioned. Namely, this will be a bleeding edge release with the very lastest packages. It is for enthusiasts and hobbists. The Fedora package will NOT be the equivalent of Redhat Linux. It will not have the RH quality control and testing. That's one of the reasons it will not be branded by Redhat. Fedora will have short release cycles and with support for the most current versions only.
This has resulted in a huge debate on the RH mailing lists. Many are stating that they're going to be moving to SuSE or at least seriously considering SuSE.
Once more, I listen to those mailings lists and can't remember anybody going to make the switch. But don't get me wrong, I use both SuSE and RHL and I like both. SuSE is more desktop-friendly, has better admin tools, but RHL has always had the greatest support (KDE 3.1.4 was available instantly for RHL, Oracle is certified for RHL) and seems geared towards the datacenter and servers.
Hmmm, I guess you're missing some of the posts. Some (not everyone of course) have been debating the merits of moving to various packages including SuSE. The problem for several folks is that they can't/won't pay for RHEL for their university/school/church servers. They need a server solution without the RHEL price tag. I've seen hints that RH are working on a solution for this but nothing has been announced yet that I'm aware of. -- Gerry "The lyfe so short, the craft so long to learne" Chaucer
participants (10)
-
Arif Uysal -
Bruce Marshall -
Buck -
David Krider -
Felipe Alfaro Solana -
Gerry Doris -
John Pettigrew -
Lars Norén -
Philipp Thomas -
Örn E. Hansen