[opensuse] What I Want (was Why I don't upgrade often)

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Stevens

15 Mar 2007 15 Mar '07

16:24

On Wednesday 14 March 2007 22:59, you wrote:

...

Fred, Give Zenwalk a look/try! If you want KDE and other things, ZW would be the choice, but if you just want a speedy fast Linux, take a stab at Vector! Might save you a lot of time rather than dealing with FC6.

regards, Lee

I see you are earthlink also. Mind if I ask what part of the country? I'm on the east coast, NC.

Lee: What I want is a system that has a web browser that can display the streaming videos included on many websites, including the different news services like Reuters, ABC, CNN, etc at Yahoo.com and the trailers at film.com. Basically the same functionality that a Windoes user would have on the same websites. In my opinion, this is critically important to get a Windows user to want to swap to Linux. After all, why make the change if you lose features? Office apps are not an issue (due to OO), games aren't either because of wine and parallels (or vmware). Not needing antivirus or malware software won't do the trick, nor will the lower price of the OS. No, the one issue that breaks the bank is full-featured web browsing. If that can be made to work correctly then there is really no need whatsoever to retain Windows, other than maybe a virtual machine for the reasons mentioned above. My goal is to be able to sever the Windows umbilical that so many people are attached to. I want the stereotypical blonde to be able to turn on the computer and run it just as easily as she does Windows. I cannot do that with the tools I have now. As for my location, it's about 50 miles out of Dallas, TX. Fred -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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Sunny

15 Mar 15 Mar

16:53

On 3/15/07, Stevens wrote:

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What I want is a system that has a web browser that can display the streaming videos included on many websites, including the different news services like Reuters, ABC, CNN, etc at Yahoo.com and the trailers at film.com. Basically the same functionality that a Windoes user would have on the same websites.

Just add packmans repository, then install: mplayer and mplayer-plugin or vls and vls plugin win32codecs (to add support for proprietary codecs) then flash (there is 9.0 for linux already) Whatever distro you choose, you will end up doing something similar, i.e. using external repositories (besides ubunty, which has these programs in their multiverse, but it has its quirks as well), and installing win32codes and the players. Some videos will not play, whichever distro you choose, as they use some "bad"/proprietary codecs. But I find the above solution to solve 99% of the problems. -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stevens

17:37

On Thursday 15 March 2007 11:53, Sunny wrote:

...

On 3/15/07, Stevens wrote:

...
What I want is a system that has a web browser that can display the streaming videos included on many websites, including the different news services like Reuters, ABC, CNN, etc at Yahoo.com and the trailers at film.com. Basically the same functionality that a Windoes user would have on the same websites.

Just add packmans repository, then install: mplayer and mplayer-plugin or vls and vls plugin win32codecs (to add support for proprietary codecs) then flash (there is 9.0 for linux already)

If it were that simple, I would not be bitching.

...

Some videos will not play, whichever distro you choose, as they use some "bad"/proprietary codecs.

That is my point. They run with Windows and should also with Linux.

...

-- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny)

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sunny

18:02

On 3/15/07, Stevens wrote:

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If it were that simple, I would not be bitching.

I did not follow the thread from the beginning, so what is the problem?

...

That is my point. They run with Windows and should also with Linux.

They _are_ proprietary. Bitch to their authors, and why they do not provide players for linux. -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

BandiPat

20:44

On Thursday 15 March 2007, Stevens wrote:

...

Lee:

What I want is a system that has a web browser that can display the streaming videos included on many websites, including the different news services like Reuters, ABC, CNN, etc at Yahoo.com and the trailers at film.com. Basically the same functionality that a Windoes user would have on the same websites. ======= One thing to remember here. These sites are not always designed well or correctly. Either on purpose or just stupidity, they don't always build their sites with everyone in mind, nor do they bother testing beyond one browser. Sad, but true fact of life. Complain to them! At some point they'll hear you. The sites I've written emails too, banking, insurance, etc., sites that have to deal with all types of customers seem to be listening. Also, find the sites that work best and visit them. They all count their visitors, so let them know by not supporting them.

...

In my opinion, this is critically important to get a Windows user to want to swap to Linux. After all, why make the change if you lose features?

Office apps are not an issue (due to OO), games aren't either because of wine and parallels (or vmware). Not needing antivirus or malware software won't do the trick, nor will the lower price of the OS. No, the one issue that breaks the bank is full-featured web browsing. If that can be made to work correctly then there is really no need whatsoever to retain Windows, other than maybe a virtual machine for the reasons mentioned above.

My goal is to be able to sever the Windows umbilical that so many people are attached to. I want the stereotypical blonde to be able to turn on the computer and run it just as easily as she does Windows. I cannot do that with the tools I have now.

As for my location, it's about 50 miles out of Dallas, TX.

Fred ====== If you want something that works out of the box on these sites, then Zenwalk or Vector will satisfy your needs. Also your needs in converting Windows users over. That's what I've been doing with both recently. Once I get them converted, I'll move them over to more robust setups, like OpenSuse, but for now I can install, setup and get a machine out the door in an hour with either of those, where it would take me a couple of days with Suse.

Your choice, but you have to put out the effort. Lee -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David Brodbeck

16 Mar 16 Mar

19:29

BandiPat wrote:

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One thing to remember here. These sites are not always designed well or correctly. Either on purpose or just stupidity, they don't always build their sites with everyone in mind, nor do they bother testing beyond one browser. Sad, but true fact of life.

Very true. If you can't access a site using Firefox on Windows, Linux isn't going to have much of a chance. Some sites are still designed for Internet Explorer only, and it will be a cold day in hell before Microsoft ports that to Linux. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Peter Bradley

21:25

Ysgrifennodd David Brodbeck:

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Some sites are still designed for Internet Explorer only, and it will be a cold day in hell before Microsoft ports that to Linux.

I understand you can get it to work in CrossOver Office. If you really want to. Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Richard Bos

21:43

Op vrijdag 16 maart 2007 22:25, schreef Peter Bradley:

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Ysgrifennodd David Brodbeck:

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Some sites are still designed for Internet Explorer only, and it will be a cold day in hell before Microsoft ports that to Linux.

I understand you can get it to work in CrossOver Office. If you really want to.

Or use: http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Adam Tauno Williams

22:11

...

...
Some sites are still designed for Internet Explorer only, and it will be a cold day in hell before Microsoft ports that to Linux. I understand you can get it to work in CrossOver Office. If you really want to.

It actually works quite well on just the Wine version that ships with openSUSE. IE has worked in Wine for quite awhile. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Richard Bos

22:18

Op vrijdag 16 maart 2007 23:11, schreef Adam Tauno Williams:

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It actually works quite well on just the Wine version that ships with openSUSE. IE has worked in Wine for quite awhile.

Do you have a procedure how to install it? What libraries are needed? -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Adam Tauno Williams

22:35

On Fri, 2007-03-16 at 23:18 +0100, Richard Bos wrote:

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Op vrijdag 16 maart 2007 23:11, schreef Adam Tauno Williams:

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It actually works quite well on just the Wine version that ships with openSUSE. IE has worked in Wine for quite awhile. Do you have a procedure how to install it? What libraries are needed?

wget http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/downloads/ies4linux-latest.tar.gz tar zxvf ies4linux-latest.tar.gz cd ies4linux-* ./ies4linux http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Installation -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kai Ponte

22:52

On Friday 16 March 2007 03:35:44 pm Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

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On Fri, 2007-03-16 at 23:18 +0100, Richard Bos wrote:

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Op vrijdag 16 maart 2007 23:11, schreef Adam Tauno Williams:

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It actually works quite well on just the Wine version that ships with openSUSE. IE has worked in Wine for quite awhile.

Do you have a procedure how to install it? What libraries are needed?

wget http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/downloads/ies4linux-latest.tar.gz tar zxvf ies4linux-latest.tar.gz cd ies4linux-* ./ies4linux

http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Installation

ies4linux works like a charm. Faster than the CXOffice version, IMO. I only use it for occasional testing, but I like it when I do. -- k -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David Brodbeck

22:22

Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

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It actually works quite well on just the Wine version that ships with openSUSE. IE has worked in Wine for quite awhile.

I don't know why, but Wine has always fought me at every turn. I've never successfully gotten it to run anything more complicated than Solitare. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Eberhard Roloff

26 Mar 26 Mar

07:40

New subject: [opensuse] Re: What I Want (was Why I don't upgrade often)

David Brodbeck wrote:

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Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

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It actually works quite well on just the Wine version that ships with openSUSE. IE has worked in Wine for quite awhile.

I don't know why, but Wine has always fought me at every turn. I've never successfully gotten it to run anything more complicated than Solitare.

Well, as usual, it depends. For example I used it to run ie6/word/excel/powerpoint/outlook 2000 and the MS Office viewers successfully, but I see (nearly) no point in doing this, since Linux offers so much natively. Imho a worthwhile exception might be the office viewers from MS. Although they are really rarely used on my machines, they always offer you the "Officially Microsoft approved way of looking at an Office document". Rarely used but sometimes _REALLY_ useful. kind regards Eberhard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Jos van Kan

20:24

New subject: [opensuse] Re: What I Want (was Why I don't upgrade often)

Eberhard Roloff wrote: (about apps where to use wine for)

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Imho a worthwhile exception might be the office viewers from MS.

Although they are really rarely used on my machines, they always offer you the "Officially Microsoft approved way of looking at an Office document". Rarely used but sometimes _REALLY_ useful.

Actually there's exactly *one* app I use wine for and that is dvdshrink. I know there's a Linux CLI port but it's not nearly as good. There are some quirks about this app too, BTW, it only manages *files* not *discs* so you have to vobcopy the dvd's first. (IIRC Fred Stevens complained about this a couple of weeks ago as a bug in 10.2, but it dates back to at least 9.3) Regards, -- Jos van Kan registered Linux user #152704 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David Brodbeck

27 Mar 27 Mar

01:10

New subject: [opensuse] Re: What I Want (was Why I don't upgrade often)

Eberhard Roloff wrote:

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David Brodbeck wrote:

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I don't know why, but Wine has always fought me at every turn. I've never successfully gotten it to run anything more complicated than Solitare.

Well, as usual, it depends.

For example I used it to run ie6/word/excel/powerpoint/outlook 2000 and the MS Office viewers successfully, but I see (nearly) no point in doing this, since Linux offers so much natively.

Imho a worthwhile exception might be the office viewers from MS.

Although they are really rarely used on my machines, they always offer you the "Officially Microsoft approved way of looking at an Office document". Rarely used but sometimes _REALLY_ useful.

I decided, after reading this thread, to give it another shot. I installed wine and winetools off Packman and tried to go through the winetools setup procedure. A lot of the setup options in winetools crashed with debugger messages. I almost got Internet Explorer 6 to run on my laptop this way -- it installed, but running it just gave me a blank window. I tried it on my desktop and couldn't even get a 'fake Windows drive' created that winetools thought was valid. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kai Ponte

02:39

New subject: [opensuse] Re: What I Want (was Why I don't upgrade often)

On Monday 26 March 2007 06:10:23 pm David Brodbeck wrote:

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I decided, after reading this thread, to give it another shot. I installed wine and winetools off Packman and tried to go through the winetools setup procedure. A lot of the setup options in winetools crashed with debugger messages. I almost got Internet Explorer 6 to run on my laptop this way -- it installed, but running it just gave me a blank window. I tried it on my desktop and couldn't even get a 'fake Windows drive' created that winetools thought was valid.

I've never installed Wine. I've successfully installed CrossOver office on multiple machines. If you want just IE - and various plugins, you can use IES4Linux, which is an embedded Wine version with the ability to install plugins... http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page Example of a site I did with the Whip! plugin (back when I was stupid) running IES4Linux on my laptop: http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/suse/2007/20070316_ies4linux_sbcounty.jpg -- kai Free Compean and Ramos http://www.grassfire.org/142/petition.asp http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/46 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Mike McMullin

17 Mar 17 Mar

03:43

On Fri, 2007-03-16 at 21:25 +0000, Peter Bradley wrote:

...

Ysgrifennodd David Brodbeck:

...
Some sites are still designed for Internet Explorer only, and it will be a cold day in hell before Microsoft ports that to Linux.

I understand you can get it to work in CrossOver Office. If you really want to.

Or to get the ie4linux script and bypass CO altogether. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kai Ponte

04:14

New subject: IE4Linux (WAS: Re: [opensuse] What I Want (was Why I don't upgrade often))

On Friday 16 March 2007 08:43:46 pm Mike McMullin wrote:

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On Fri, 2007-03-16 at 21:25 +0000, Peter Bradley wrote:

...
Ysgrifennodd David Brodbeck:

...
Some sites are still designed for Internet Explorer only, and it will be a cold day in hell before Microsoft ports that to Linux.

I understand you can get it to work in CrossOver Office. If you really want to.

Or to get the ie4linux script and bypass CO altogether.

Yes, it works like a charm http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/suse/2007/20070316_ies4linux.jpg There are a few plugins yet not working but you can do much that you couldn't do with Firefox. For example I wrote this site around 2000 for San Bernardino when I worked there. http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/suse/2007/20070316_ies4linux_sbcounty.jpg It uses an AutoCAD plugin. Of course, I'm on to more important things, like using $7,000 worth of workstations to hold donuts... http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/50 -- kai Free Compean and Ramos http://www.grassfire.org/142/petition.asp http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/46 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

James Knott

16 Mar 16 Mar

23:29

David Brodbeck wrote:

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BandiPat wrote:

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One thing to remember here. These sites are not always designed well or correctly. Either on purpose or just stupidity, they don't always build their sites with everyone in mind, nor do they bother testing beyond one browser. Sad, but true fact of life.

Very true. If you can't access a site using Firefox on Windows, Linux isn't going to have much of a chance. Some sites are still designed for Internet Explorer only, and it will be a cold day in hell before Microsoft ports that to Linux.

Actually, I found one site a couple of weeks ago, that worked with Firefox/Linux, but not Firefox/XP. I don't recall the URL though. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Doug McGarrett

17 Mar 17 Mar

01:02

On Friday 16 March 2007 15:29, David Brodbeck wrote:

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BandiPat wrote:

...
One thing to remember here. These sites are not always designed well or correctly. Either on purpose or just stupidity, they don't always build their sites with everyone in mind, nor do they bother testing beyond one browser. Sad, but true fact of life.

Very true. If you can't access a site using Firefox on Windows, Linux isn't going to have much of a chance. Some sites are still designed for Internet Explorer only, and it will be a cold day in hell before Microsoft ports that to Linux.

I think IE will run under WINE, if I remember the posts to this list correctly. Personally, I don't care if I receive something that only runs under IE, even tho I have a Windows machine. It never has IE running. --doug -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kai Ponte

02:21

On Friday 16 March 2007 06:02:16 pm Doug McGarrett wrote:

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I think IE will run under WINE, if I remember the posts to this list correctly. Personally, I don't care if I receive something that only runs under IE, even tho I have a Windows machine. It never has IE running.

IE is a core part of the operating system and cannot be removed. It is always running. Don't you remember? :P -- k -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David Brodbeck

03:13

Kai Ponte wrote:

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IE is a core part of the operating system and cannot be removed. It is always running.

Don't you remember? :P

If you *do* remove it, with something like XPlite, you find out just how many applications depend on its DLLs. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Clayton

16 Mar 16 Mar

08:02

...

What I want is a system that has a web browser that can display the streaming videos included on many websites, including the different news services like Reuters, ABC, CNN, etc at Yahoo.com and the trailers at film.com. Basically the same functionality that a Windoes user would have on the same websites.

As everyone keeps saying, you do have that.. MPlayer and the w32codecs from Packman combined with Firefox (and with a little work, also Opera and Konqueror). It works first time every time on every single SUSE 10.2 install I've put together... not just on my specific hardware, but on multiple systems on completely different hardware. Even on remote machines half way around the world where I've walked a family member through installing those apps from Packman... and it worked for them too. And as for getting the same functionality... I've seen time and again where it actually works BETTER in Linux than Windows. Case in point. JumpTV is a website where you can subscribe to TV feeds from stations from around the world. I want to watch the news from Kenya on KBC, and this in the only site carrying the feed. I set it up and watched it in Firefox on SUSE 10.2 using the mplayerplugin. Works perfectly. My partner wants to watch the feed on her laptop (running Firefox under XP). She pulls up the exact same video feed... and it will not play... at all. The embedded WiMP refuses to start playing the stream. We finally figured out that to get the feed playing, we have to start IE6, get the feed playing there, then close IE6, and opens the feed in Firefox then WiMP will play the stream correctly (and will play it from then on too... this only needs to be done once per XP install). This isn't a one time situation. I stumble on silliness like this all the time between using my SUSE10.2 desktop and my partner's laptop running XP. The trailers, news feeds, YouTube etc. all work fine in Linux IF you add in the latest Flash form Adobe, and add in MPlayer, w32codecs, and mplayerplugin from Packman.

...

In my opinion, this is critically important to get a Windows user to want to swap to Linux. After all, why make the change if you lose features?

What features are being lost? I'm gaining features.. not loosing (with the exception of a much smaller choice of expensive commercial games which may or may not be a bad thing)

...

that breaks the bank is full-featured web browsing. If that can be made to work correctly then there is really no need whatsoever to retain Windows, other than maybe a virtual machine for the reasons mentioned above.

I don't see where this is an issue. Seriously... At least since I've installed 10.2, I DO have full featured Web Browsing. No wait, I lie. There are some sites that I go to that have highly annoying advertising animations and overlays that do not work, and in some cases become totally unreadable due to bad placement of the ads and how Firefox, Opera in Linux etc handle the layers. But.. I don't really consider that a loss of functionality, or a loss of features.

...

My goal is to be able to sever the Windows umbilical that so many people are attached to. I want the stereotypical blonde to be able to turn on the computer and run it just as easily as she does Windows. I cannot do that with the tools I have now.

If you do the setup, and you do the preconfigure on a Windows machine, you can turn a blonde brained person loose onn Windows and they will manage. You can do the exact same thing with SUSE, and they will manage just fine. If you hand this same person a computer with an empty hard drive (no partitions, no OS) and some DVDs, they will be just as lost installing Windows as Linux. I'm not saying all is happiness and butterflies. Far from it, and SUSE has a long way to go to become a mindless point and shoot OS. But what OS is? Other than maybe MAC OSX...

...

As for my location, it's about 50 miles out of Dallas, TX.

Ha, that explains a lot :-) I lived for a year in Lewisville TX... in another life, long long ago. Haven't been back since. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Adam Williams

11:31

...

...
What I want is a system that has a web browser that can display the streaming videos included on many websites, including the different news services like Reuters, ABC, CNN, etc at Yahoo.com and the trailers at film.com. Basically the same functionality that a Windoes user would have on the same websites. As everyone keeps saying, you do have that.. MPlayer and the w32codecs from Packman combined with Firefox (and with a little work, also Opera and Konqueror). It works first time every time on every single SUSE 10.2 install I've put together... not just on my specific hardware, but on multiple systems on completely different hardware. Even on remote machines half way around the world where I've walked a family member through installing those apps from Packman... and it worked for them too.

Yep.

...

The trailers, news feeds, YouTube etc. all work fine in Linux IF you add in the latest Flash form Adobe, and add in MPlayer, w32codecs, and mplayerplugin from Packman.

Yes

...

...
In my opinion, this is critically important to get a Windows user to want to swap to Linux. After all, why make the change if you lose features? What features are being lost? I'm gaining features.. not loosing (with the exception of a much smaller choice of expensive commercial games which may or may not be a bad thing)

Agree, there is NO way switching from XP to openSUSE 10.2 is a net loss of features. I have Windows in vmware workstation. It is surprising how rarely I have to boot it; usually only to test domain policy stuff.

...

...
that breaks the bank is full-featured web browsing. If that can be made to work correctly then there is really no need whatsoever to retain Windows, other than maybe a virtual machine for the reasons mentioned above. I don't see where this is an issue. Seriously... At least since I've installed 10.2, I DO have full featured Web Browsing.

Same here.

...

There are some sites that I go to that have highly annoying advertising animations and overlays that do not work, and in some cases become totally unreadable due to bad placement of the ads and how Firefox, Opera in Linux etc handle the layers. But.. I don't really consider that a loss of functionality, or a loss of features.

You'll never find a box that will display EVERY website; some are just too screwed up.

...

...
My goal is to be able to sever the Windows umbilical that so many people are attached to. I want the stereotypical blonde to be able to turn on the computer and run it just as easily as she does Windows.

Maybe that is a dumb goal. It sounds more like a mission than a goal. My experience: if you are focused on Windows, and that is the axis of your thoughts about IT/technology/user-experience, you will never succeed or be happy with Linux. Buy a Vista box, save yourself the grief. I've been in IT, and running Linux, since 1992. That has always proven to be true.

...

I cannot do that with the tools I have now.

My wife, who is not a dumb blonde but a hot brunette, has been using Linux for *years* on her laptop to do entirely ordinary things. The guy who lives in the upstairs apartment uses Linux for entirely ordinary things. Neither are IT people by any stretch of the imagination. They are accustomed to how things look/feel/respond and do just fine [without hand holding by me]; and no, neither uses the command line. :) Neither do they post to lists or forums, which is why the failure rate for Linux desktops seems dramatically higher (here especially) then it actually is. --- Adam Tauno Williams Consultant - http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com Developer - http://www.opengroupware.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Doug McGarrett

23:03

On Friday 16 March 2007 07:31, Adam Williams wrote:> Summary of snipped part: If the system is set up by someone who knows the Unix/Linux environment, the average Joe or Josephine will never miss Windows.

...

...
...
My goal is to be able to sever the Windows umbilical that so many people are attached to. I want the stereotypical blonde to be able to turn on the computer and run it just as easily as she does Windows.

Maybe that is a dumb goal. It sounds more like a mission than a goal. My experience: if you are focused on Windows, and that is the axis of your thoughts about IT/technology/user-experience, you will never succeed or be happy with Linux. Buy a Vista box, save yourself the grief. I've been in IT, and running Linux, since 1992. That has always proven to be true.

...
I cannot do that with the tools I have now.

Well, I partly agree. See below.

...

My wife, who is not a dumb blonde but a hot brunette, has been using Linux for *years* on her laptop to do entirely ordinary things. The guy who lives in the upstairs apartment uses Linux for entirely ordinary things. Neither are IT people by any stretch of the imagination. They are accustomed to how things look/feel/respond and do just fine [without hand holding by me]; and no, neither uses the command line. :) Neither do they post to lists or forums, which is why the failure rate for Linux desktops seems dramatically higher (here especially) then it actually is.

--- Adam Tauno Williams Consultant - http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com Developer - http://www.opengroupware.org/

Altho someone pointed me to LinuxXP a few days ago, there are a bunch of programs that will not run under WINE, and really require some kind of Windows. One of them is AutoCAD-LT, and another is the full-up pro version, AutoCAD. I don't think (but don't know) that Pro-E--a sort of competitor to AutoCAD that does 3-D drawings natively, runs on Linux, and Agilent-EEsof's RF simulators, AFAIK, do not run on Linux, altho there was a Unix version of an earlier incarnation of this some 15 or so years ago. (I Googled their website, and could not tell.) Most of these are very high-end programs, except A/C-LT, costing thousands of dollars, but if the goal is to put Linux on every desk possible, it will not happen in some engineering and architectural firms that need the capabilities above. And these firms, of course, are where the money is, where the prestige is, and where a significant reliance on Linux would be instantly recognized by the average Joe and Jo. When Linux is a real competitor to M/S, I believe that some or all of these kinds of programs will be available. I had written of competition a few days ago, and someone wrote back that Linux has already sold more O/S's than Mac's OS-X. But he admitted, that's for servers; OS-X is on desktops in video and advt. labs world-over. Even if a niche opportunity occurs, as with Mac, it would certainly help the Linux community to have some recognition among the average Jos and Joes, most especially in the commercial world _outside of_ IT. What can be done? Here's the Catch 22. As long as Linux is confined to the IT world, Agilent will not bother to port the Agilent programs to Linux, and as long as nobody does, Linux stays in the IT world, and for goofballs like me who are stubbornly trying to get aboard. It is obvious to me, having been there on the receiving end, that IT departments want all computers in the shop to be running the same system, and (ideally) all the same software. (This is not too likely in an engineering environment, but that would be the ideal, and is of course true in secretarial offices.) That same sytem, in almost all places, is Windows. Well, I don't have the answer--this is more of a think-piece than a solution, but I thought I'd put it out there for thought, to those more insightful than me. --doug -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stevens

15:17

On Friday 16 March 2007 03:02, Clayton wrote:

...

...
What I want is a system that has a web browser that can display the streaming videos included on many websites, including the different news services like Reuters, ABC, CNN, etc at Yahoo.com and the trailers at film.com. Basically the same functionality that a Windoes user would have on the same websites.

As everyone keeps saying, you do have that.. MPlayer and the w32codecs from Packman combined with Firefox (and with a little work, also Opera and Konqueror). It works first time every time on every single SUSE 10.2 install I've put together... not just on my specific hardware, but on multiple systems on completely different hardware. Even on remote machines half way around the world where I've walked a family member through installing those apps from Packman... and it worked for them too.

Then maybe you can call, skype or IM me and tell me what I am doing wrong, because Suse 10.2 is the only system that it doesn't work on here, and I have done (3) 10.2 installs so far. email me off list to continue this: fred00sandy@earthlink.net Fred -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sunny

15:53

On 3/16/07, Stevens wrote:

...

Then maybe you can call, skype or IM me and tell me what I am doing wrong, because Suse 10.2 is the only system that it doesn't work on here, and I have done (3) 10.2 installs so far.

email me off list to continue this: fred00sandy@earthlink.net

Fred

Fred, this is not polite at all. If you have problems, there is a chance someone else has (or will have) such a problems too. If you clearly say what you have done, and what you are trying to do, someone will respond and help you out. And other users will be able to search and find this, and solve their problem as well. Keeping it private helps only you, and this is not how it is supposed to be. Please read this before you post your question(s): http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stevens

17 Mar 17 Mar

16:33

On Friday 16 March 2007 10:53, Sunny wrote:

...

On 3/16/07, Stevens wrote:

...
Then maybe you can call, skype or IM me and tell me what I am doing wrong, because Suse 10.2 is the only system that it doesn't work on here, and I have done (3) 10.2 installs so far.

email me off list to continue this: fred00sandy@earthlink.net

Fred

Fred, this is not polite at all. If you have problems, there is a chance someone else has (or will have) such a problems too. If you clearly say what you have done, and what you are trying to do, someone will respond and help you out. And other users will be able to search and find this, and solve their problem as well. Keeping it private helps only you, and this is not how it is supposed to be.

Please read this before you post your question(s): http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

-- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny)

In this part of the world the response is to say, "You are entitled to your opinion, no matter what I think of it." Of course, you can infer from that what I thought of your kind suggestion. You have an odd concept of "polite". I have a problem with a process on this system, I am willing to work with someone one-on-one to solve the problem and any resolution can then be posted back to the list. To me, that is far more "polite" to the list than generating a lot of chatter and wasted bandwidth whilst solving the problem. If that is selfish and self-serving, then I stand guilty as charged. Fred -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Peter Bradley

16:54

Ysgrifennodd Stevens:

...

In this part of the world the response is to say, "You are entitled to your opinion, no matter what I think of it." Of course, you can infer from that what I thought of your kind suggestion.

You have an odd concept of "polite". I have a problem with a process on this system, I am willing to work with someone one-on-one to solve the problem and any resolution can then be posted back to the list. To me, that is far more "polite" to the list than generating a lot of chatter and wasted bandwidth whilst solving the problem. If that is selfish and self-serving, then I stand guilty as charged.

Fred

Fred, It's the chatter we come for. Some of us. I am reminded of a respected professor once saying to me by way of justifying lectures, "Young man, it is a privilege to hear great minds think!" I sort of regard this list like that. Except when I'm posting, of course. :) Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stevens

19:26

On Saturday 17 March 2007 11:54, Peter Bradley wrote:

...

Ysgrifennodd Stevens:

...
In this part of the world the response is to say, "You are entitled to your opinion, no matter what I think of it." Of course, you can infer from that what I thought of your kind suggestion.

You have an odd concept of "polite". I have a problem with a process on this system, I am willing to work with someone one-on-one to solve the problem and any resolution can then be posted back to the list. To me, that is far more "polite" to the list than generating a lot of chatter and wasted bandwidth whilst solving the problem. If that is selfish and self-serving, then I stand guilty as charged.

Fred

Fred,

It's the chatter we come for. Some of us. I am reminded of a respected professor once saying to me by way of justifying lectures, "Young man, it is a privilege to hear great minds think!" I sort of regard this list like that. Except when I'm posting, of course.

:)

Peter

What I was offering to do in the original reply was to go one-on-one with someone who could work with me real time, possibly with a login into this computer to do a "stare and compare". That could be done in a discussion list, I suppose. I could post pages of printouts of various directories here but I do not think that is appropriate. Others, of course, have other opinions. Something about many minds studying the problem at the same time, gestalt consciousness and all that. Maybe so, but I still don't think it's right to junk up a list. I also do not like the lag involved in troubleshooting via email. If it's the only thing available, so be it, but I don't like it. No, fixing the problem off list and then posting a detailed report to the list to inform whomever might be interested is the way to go, My opinion, of course. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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participants (15)

Adam Tauno Williams
Adam Williams
BandiPat
Clayton
David Brodbeck
Doug McGarrett
Eberhard Roloff
James Knott
Jos van Kan
Kai Ponte
Mike McMullin
Peter Bradley
Richard Bos
Stevens
Sunny