[Fwd: [SLE] Yast 2 SUCKS !!!]

Hans Krueger

29 Jul 2002 29 Jul '02

01:01

why not install yast 1 -----Forwarded Message----- From: Fábio Rabelo To: Suse_English Subject: [SLE] Yast 2 SUCKS !!! Date: 28 Jul 2002 16:10:57 -0300 I'm Suse user since version 6.1, then migrating from "redhat" like .. After dedicating this weekend to instal at first time Suse 8.0 .. and REALY hate them !!! First of all : instalation ! My test bed is a Pentium 150, motherboard VIA MVP3, 64 RAM . more then enough to run a gateway/firewall to 30 or 40 machines . Suse 7.2 ou 7.3 installs on them smoothly, in 1/2 hour ou less... more 1/2 hour to setup deamons and firewall ... well ... to install suse 8.0 I MUST setup a swap of 40 MB BEFORE anything else ... AND, to select correct set of packages, I spend 3 hours !!! my "DMZ" selection ( from suse7.2/7.3 Yast1 ) are missing, I MUST make a selection by hand and at EACH package that I cut/select this machine "things" for about 1 minute before I can go to the next !! What a hell are Suse developers thinking ?!?!? I dont have time to waste !!! if they have, make Yast 2 USABLE or get back Yast 1 ... or free Yast 1 to comunity proceed with development ! But this is unaceptable !!! And then ...when I will set up the deamons, the rc.config is put away WITHOUT a equivalent replacement !!! If I want to make this setup without tweeking ( the MAJOR reason that I migrate from "red hat" like to Suse ) I MUST use AGAIN this great peace of sheet called Yast2, and, I must remember run levels and other things that I running awy from when migrate to Suse !!! What a hell is this ?!?!? involution ??? steps back ??? If Suse don't release a "Suse 7.4" with kernel 2.4.18 or 2.4.19 or a Suse 8.1 WITH Yast1 or MUCH MUCH more fast and friendly Yast 2 I will stay away from Suse until now !! ( and my clients too !! ) Now I can undestand all msg from this list soon after 8.1 release ! This peaple are right !!! Ssue * and Yast 2 sucks !!! Fábio Rabelo -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com

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jfweber＠eternal.net

29 Jul 29 Jul

10:31

New subject: [Fwd: [SLE] Yast 2 SUCKS !!!] rebuttal , I think it's wandered a bit OT

** Reply to message from Hans Krueger on 28 Jul 2002 21:01:17 -0400 **Now I can undestand all msg from this list soon after 8.1 release ! **This peaple are right !!! Ssue * and Yast 2 sucks !!! ** **Fábio Rabelo question: did you do a "clean install" ? ( sorry if you said somewhere, I didn't find it) Most, tho not all that had trouble w/ 8.0 install ( especially when it first came out ) installed OVer a prior release... Suse said at that time that it was trying to move towards the standard locations for things that some group ( to which they belong) has set for all Distros to come into complience w/. When they all get it finished ( and Suse didn't move everything all at once, or you surely would have had a system installed that didn't work at all ... ) THey have been moving items to new locations over the past several releases.. Clean install , w/ your data restored after install , seems to be just fine... Yast2 works rather well, but it *IS* different than the earlier versions of yast and yast2.... it has most of the functionality of both of those tools, and I'm told that when run from a shell it's pretty fast as well. **If Suse don't release a "Suse 7.4" with kernel 2.4.18 or 2.4.19 or a **Suse 8.1 WITH Yast1 or MUCH MUCH more fast and friendly **Yast 2 I will stay away from Suse until now !! ( and my clients too !! ) I'm sure that will make them very sad.... but I suspect any distro you go to is going to have some sticky points, at leastuntil they each get all the items in the same agreed upon locations. On the really good side, that *Should* make it posible for programmers to spend time creating their application rather than trying to figure out what will have to be added to the package for it to install/run on ____ (name your distro. ) There is a majo move afoot to have a "standard" and IIRC Suse, and four others are joining togethe to create that base linux... perhaps you should wait for that , since it appears you don't want anything in the default install. BTW, why on earth did it take you so long to pick and choose your apps? Did you perhaps forget to have it display everything in groupings ? ( KDE, X apps, Sound, graphics, etc?) I install a lot of things and it's NEVER taken me more than an hour to get everything done Each workstation in this group has a different setup , too. And don't give me the "you should ALWAYS" compile your own... I don't have time to do THAT... but I don't expect the rest of the linux universe to kowtow to my needs... its' very nice if they do... but expectations are part of the problem, aren't they ????? It's not just windows users that like to use the KDE or GNOME or , pick your poison , Suse has a whole lot of different window managers.. Black Box is a favourite w/ many... It's nice to be able to switch to different "desktops" for different needs .... People you probably disapprove of are coming to linux.... get over it. It just isn't going to be some 1337 club any more .... IF you need that type of thing, commercial distros are not for you ... I seriously doubt any of them will suit your needs, as they all try to capture at least some of the new business, as well as keep most of their old users, AND commercial enterprises happy... The watchWord is standardization rantmode=off j afterthought Who you callin' "argumentative", Bucko?

David Benfell

12:31

New subject: [Fwd: [SLE] Yast 2 SUCKS] rebuttal , I think it's wandered a bit OT

On Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:31:08 -0400, jfweber@eternal.net wrote:

...

** Reply to message from Hans Krueger on 28 Jul 2002 21:01:17 -0400

**Now I can undestand all msg from this list soon after 8.1 release ! **This peaple are right !!! Ssue * and Yast 2 sucks !!! ** **Fábio Rabelo

question: did you do a "clean install" ? ( sorry if you said somewhere, I didn't find it) Most, tho not all that had trouble w/ 8.0 install ( especially when it first came out ) installed OVer a prior release...

Actually, my first attempt to install on the machine was a clean install.

...

Suse said at that time that it was trying to move towards the standard locations for things that some group ( to which they belong) has set for all Distros to come into complience w/.

It's called File Hierarchy Standard. SuSE has been working on this for a while and has generally been the distribution most closely in compliance.

...

Yast2 works rather well, but it *IS* different than the earlier versions of yast and yast2.... it has most of the functionality of both of those tools, and I'm told that when run from a shell it's pretty fast as well.

Not quite. See my other postings. As for speed, I've always found both YaST and YaST2 to be large, clumsy, and slow. I've generally avoided relying on them much after installation. But that's beside the point. The primary value of a distribution is in its ability to install a working Linux on your system. After that, you have lots of ways to update. You can access SuSE's ftp site (or better, mirrors) and download the rpm's, then invoke rpm yourself. You can find the source and build it yourself. You can muck with the configurations to your heart's content. Not getting the installation right, though, is a major problem.

...

People you probably disapprove of are coming to linux.... get over it. It just isn't going to be some 1337 club any more .... IF you need that type of thing, commercial distros are not for you ...

Huh?!???!!!! I suggest you look at a non-commercial distribution, i.e. Debian, and then tell me if you think that's an easier installation, especially for Windows users.

...

The watchWord is standardization

Standardization has little to do with the problems in SuSE 8.0. It is not the File Hierarchy Standard which required changes in how SuSE organizes the rpms in their FTP site so that previous versions of YaST and YaST2 could not work. The File Hierarchy Standard is about how things are arranged on your system after the installation. -- David Benfell, LCP benfell@parts-unknown.org --- Resume available at http://www.parts-unknown.org/resume.html

lester＠lsces.co.uk

13:40

New subject: [Fwd: [SLE] Yast 2 SUCKS] rebuttal , I think it's wandered a bit OT

...

As for speed, I've always found both YaST and YaST2 to be large, clumsy, and slow. I've generally avoided relying on them much after installation. But that's beside the point.

But it is a point I would agree with. The point I had been trying to make - not very clearly - was that older methods of doing things may not be appropriate. SUSE 8.0 is stable and I have no problems. The problem is - perhaps - that the documentation of changes between 7.X and 8.0 could be a little better so that those of use how don't want to be dictated to can change our way of working to accomodate them. -- Lester Caine ----------------------------- L.S.Caine Electronic Services

Fábio Rabelo

13:20

New subject: [Fwd: [SLE] Yast 2 SUCKS !!!] rebuttal , I think it's wandered a bit OT

...

question: did you do a "clean install" ? ( sorry if you said somewhere, I didn't find it) Most, tho not all that had trouble w/ 8.0 install ( especially when it first came out ) installed OVer a prior release... Suse said at that time that it was trying to move towards the standard locations for things that some group ( to which they belong) has set for all Distros to come into complience w/. When they all get it finished ( and Suse didn't move everything all at once, or you surely would have had a system installed that didn't work at all ... ) THey have been moving items to new locations over the past several releases.. Clean install , w/ your data restored after install , seems to be just fine...

Yes, it is a clean isntalation !

...

Yast2 works rather well, but it *IS* different than the earlier versions of yast and yast2.... it has most of the functionality of both of those tools, and I'm told that when run from a shell it's pretty fast as well.

**If Suse don't release a "Suse 7.4" with kernel 2.4.18 or 2.4.19 or a **Suse 8.1 WITH Yast1 or MUCH MUCH more fast and friendly **Yast 2 I will stay away from Suse until now !! ( and my clients too !! )

I'm sure that will make them very sad.... but I suspect any distro you go to is going to have some sticky points, at leastuntil they each get all the items in the same agreed upon locations. On the really good side, that *Should* make it posible for programmers to spend time creating their application rather than trying to figure out what will have to be added to the package for it to install/run on ____ (name your distro. )

Exatly, any distro !! But I'm been using Suse JUST because Suse WAS NOT any distro ! If they became just ANY DISTRO I'm use any distro, not Suse ! Fábio Rabelo

David Benfell

12:09

New subject: [Fwd: [SLE] Yast 2 SUCKS]

On Sun, 28 Jul 2002 21:01:17 -0400, Hans Krueger wrote:

...

why not install yast 1

With version 8.0, SuSE has sufficiently rearranged things that YaST1 can not function. Even previous versions of YaST2 will not work; I got a message (while still running off the installation environment) to reboot with the installation CDs. -- David Benfell, LCP benfell@parts-unknown.org --- Resume available at http://www.parts-unknown.org/resume.html

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David Benfell
Fábio Rabelo
Hans Krueger
jfweber＠eternal.net
lester＠lsces.co.uk