Kyix - Delphi for Linux
It seems that Borland will be launching this today at the LinuxWorld conference. The only thing is that it seems to be v expensive unless they are holding back the release of a starter edition dids
Billed for release Feb 15th. Drooollllll They sent me a neat four page advert that was folded up with a schedual for there seminars. I would expect them to have some sort of upgrade version dor borland users and perhaps some sort of competitve upgrade for M$ devolpers as well. I would exp3ect this as they are pitting kylix agenst VB , and the other rad tools. If you want cross platform with delphi you will need to wait for delphi 6 for kylix code to compile under delphi. Check out the two new items from zdnet.com/eweek/ http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/xlinktech_news/http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stori es/general/0,11011,2679101,00.html and http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/xlinktech_news/http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stori es/general/0,11011,2679508,00.html At 10:44 AM 1/31/2001 -0000, dids wrote:
It seems that Borland will be launching this today at the LinuxWorld conference.
The only thing is that it seems to be v expensive unless they are holding back the release of a starter edition
dids
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Samy Elashmawy wrote:
Drooollllll I was drooling too until I saw the price. The price is too high.
I would expect them to have some sort of upgrade version dor borland users and perhaps some sort of competitve upgrade for M$ devolpers as well. I I would be very surprised if they did.
Damon Register
From: Damon Register
Hi,
I was drooling too until I saw the price. The price is too high.
I think the price is OK, its the same as JBuilder 'Open Edition', for open source/freeware development = $Free (or $99 on CD with manual) 'Desktop' for GUI, Database etc, etc, = $999 'Server' for Apache modules and other server development = $1999 Even at $1999, that is one billable day, and I would be 'back in credit' after a couple of days on my first project. This are also new user prices, I expect a 50% reduction for existing Borland customers, slightly less for 'competitive' upgrades. Cheers Phil
On Wednesday 31 January 2001 11:48, Phil Shrimpton wrote:
From: Damon Register
Hi,
I was drooling too until I saw the price. The price is too high.
I think the price is OK, its the same as JBuilder
'Open Edition', for open source/freeware development = $Free (or $99 on CD with manual) 'Desktop' for GUI, Database etc, etc, = $999 'Server' for Apache modules and other server development = $1999
Even at $1999, that is one billable day, and I would be 'back in credit' after a couple of days on my first project. This are also new user prices, I expect a 50% reduction for existing Borland customers, slightly less for 'competitive' upgrades.
Exactly. I had my own consulting business for 15 years before I retired it. On occasion I paid more than $2,000 for a tool (an visual AREV dev tool) and many times $500+ (VB & PB). In less than a week it was paid for. Then, in the late 80's it dawned on me. Why pay at all. The client can buy the tool and keep it on one of their boxes. I didn't have to keep buying upgrades and versions, or bother with version differences as I went from project to project. But, the real reason I'm dropping in on this thread is to mention that Kylix claims its compile rate is 4 million lines per second. My experience with previous Borland Pascal tools suggests the claim is valid. Then a thought hit me..... Why not create a Pascal version of the Linux kernel, with a GUI interface screen to allow configuration and nearly instant compilation.? With the modules as units, that can be added in or removed from the running kernel, recompiling and installing a new driver should be effortless. The mind boggles..... JLK -- Scientific theories, according to Sir Karl Popper, can be "falsified," or proven wrong, by experiment. Unscientific theories -Marxist dialectical history and Freudian psychology were Popper's favorites- are formed in such a way that they cannot be falsified by data.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Þann miðvikudagur 31 janúar 2001 23:19 skrifaðir þú:
On Wednesday 31 January 2001 11:48, Phil Shrimpton wrote:
From: Damon Register
Hi,
I was drooling too until I saw the price. The price is too high.
I think the price is OK, its the same as JBuilder
'Open Edition', for open source/freeware development = $Free (or $99 on CD with manual) 'Desktop' for GUI, Database etc, etc, = $999 'Server' for Apache modules and other server development = $1999
Even at $1999, that is one billable day, and I would be 'back in credit' after a couple of days on my first project. This are also new user prices, I expect a 50% reduction for existing Borland customers, slightly less for 'competitive' upgrades.
Exactly. I had my own consulting business for 15 years before I retired it. On occasion I paid more than $2,000 for a tool (an visual AREV dev tool) and many times $500+ (VB & PB). In less than a week it was paid for. Then, in the late 80's it dawned on me. Why pay at all. The client can buy the tool and keep it on one of their boxes. I didn't have to keep buying upgrades and versions, or bother with version differences as I went from project to project.
But, the real reason I'm dropping in on this thread is to mention that Kylix claims its compile rate is 4 million lines per second. My experience with previous Borland Pascal tools suggests the claim is valid.
Being an TP4/5.5/... veteran, I wonder...
Then a thought hit me.....
Why not create a Pascal version of the Linux kernel, with a GUI interface screen to allow configuration and nearly instant compilation.? With the modules as units, that can be added in or removed from the running kernel, recompiling and installing a new driver should be effortless.
Yes! And the routines that _really_ need to be fast, we can write in forth ! *giggle*
The mind boggles.....
JLK
- -- ______ /---------------------------------------\ \ | Þór Sigurðsson | Tor Sigurdsson | t | | Netmaður | Network Specialist | o | |-----------------------------------------| s | | tosi@rhi.hi.is | i | \---------------------------------------/_____/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1e-SuSE (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD4DBQE6eKSl6mRH+PEpr2YRAv1AAKCUd0C5ROyvxivhqmUzG0I7rHySJgCUD0Ei lNmZ+XCtxS4yp7HQa3upPQ== =on+U -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Wednesday 31 January 2001 17:49, Tor Sigurdsson wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Þann miðvikudagur 31 janúar 2001 23:19 skrifaðir þú:
On Wednesday 31 January 2001 11:48, Phil Shrimpton wrote:
From: Damon Register
Hi,
I was drooling too until I saw the price. The price is too high.
I think the price is OK, its the same as JBuilder
'Open Edition', for open source/freeware development = $Free (or $99 on CD with manual) 'Desktop' for GUI, Database etc, etc, = $999 'Server' for Apache modules and other server development = $1999
Even at $1999, that is one billable day, and I would be 'back in credit' after a couple of days on my first project. This are also new user prices, I expect a 50% reduction for existing Borland customers, slightly less for 'competitive' upgrades.
Exactly. I had my own consulting business for 15 years before I retired it. On occasion I paid more than $2,000 for a tool (an visual AREV dev tool) and many times $500+ (VB & PB). In less than a week it was paid for. Then, in the late 80's it dawned on me. Why pay at all. The client can buy the tool and keep it on one of their boxes. I didn't have to keep buying upgrades and versions, or bother with version differences as I went from project to project.
But, the real reason I'm dropping in on this thread is to mention that Kylix claims its compile rate is 4 million lines per second. My experience with previous Borland Pascal tools suggests the claim is valid.
Being an TP4/5.5/... veteran, I wonder...
Then a thought hit me.....
Why not create a Pascal version of the Linux kernel, with a GUI interface screen to allow configuration and nearly instant compilation.? With the modules as units, that can be added in or removed from the running kernel, recompiling and installing a new driver should be effortless.
Yes! And the routines that _really_ need to be fast, we can write in forth ! *giggle*
I love forth! Lee Brodie's "Starting Forth" was an awesome introduction. As a thread, bottom up language forth is very powerful. When you think about it, it is very similar to objects, only in forth they are called 'words'. However, Pascal supports inline asm code to give apps that "Turbo" shot of speed when it is needed. The mind still boggles... JLK
The mind boggles.....
JLK
- -- ______ /---------------------------------------\ \
| Þór Sigurðsson | Tor Sigurdsson | t | | Netmaður | Network Specialist | o | |-----------------------------------------| s | | tosi@rhi.hi.is | i |
\---------------------------------------/_____/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1e-SuSE (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD4DBQE6eKSl6mRH+PEpr2YRAv1AAKCUd0C5ROyvxivhqmUzG0I7rHySJgCUD0Ei lNmZ+XCtxS4yp7HQa3upPQ== =on+U -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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At 05:48 PM 1/31/2001 -0000, Phil Shrimpton wrote:
From: Damon Register
Hi,
I was drooling too until I saw the price. The price is too high.
I think the price is OK, its the same as JBuilder
They aslo have theeeee $450.00 borland upgade from any borland product , a lot of us windows progermaers have some sot of borland product somewhere on the shelf , therfore making it a real feasable product.
'Open Edition', for open source/freeware development = $Free (or $99 on CD with manual) 'Desktop' for GUI, Database etc, etc, = $999 'Server' for Apache modules and other server development = $1999
Even at $1999, that is one billable day, and I would be 'back in credit' after a couple of days on my first project. This are also new user prices, I expect a 50% reduction for existing Borland customers, slightly less for 'competitive' upgrades.
Cheers
Phil
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From: Damon Register
Hi,
I was drooling too until I saw the price. The price is too high.
http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-01-31-001-27-OP-CY-SW They are releasing the 'full' version for free if you want to develop open source software. Cheers Phil
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001, Phil Shrimpton wrote:
From: Damon Register
Hi,
I was drooling too until I saw the price. The price is too high.
http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-01-31-001-27-OP-CY-SW
They are releasing the 'full' version for free if you want to develop open source software.
Cheers
Phil
HI Guys! What is better with Delphi? I mean I can program in 5 other languages, why should I learn this one? What makes it better than C for example? Any ideas on how hard it will be to port a Delphi program from W$ to Linux? BTW how big is the d/l, and will SuSE ever add it to their CDs? TIA! Jim Hatridge Proud Linux User #88484 Owner -- beowulf-newbie list I didn't vote for his daddy either! Libertarian Party www.lp.org ------------------------------------------------------- BayerWulf Jim's Beowulf Project Looking for giveaway computers and parts Email Jim for details on how you can help build a poor man's super computer.
At 08:38 PM 2/1/2001 +0100, Jim wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001, Phil Shrimpton wrote:
From: Damon Register
Hi,
I was drooling too until I saw the price. The price is too high.
http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-01-31-001-27-OP-CY-SW
They are releasing the 'full' version for free if you want to develop open source software.
Cheers
Phil
james , as a newbie who has dabled with delphi and writen half a dozon or so app, I'll risk having to put on the asbestos underware and give my thaoghts on this. I come from windows and have dabled with clarion/clipper/zachary and realy liked delphi. I jumped on linux with suse 5.3 and it realy blew my socks of as far as being rock solid and its ability to run on older hardware. I finfaly had enough of BSOD and magical reboots that leave you sytstem with whole new set of drives that dont match your hardware.
What is better with Delphi? I mean I can program in 5 other languages, why
Im imprtance ist RAD second native compiled apps. Its the visual interface that allows you to drop components and hook them together than tweak the code by hand , then be able to go back to the visial tools make changes and not have to re do you hand coding.
should I learn this one? What makes it better than C for example? Any ideas on
C is a lot more verbose and cryptic to me as a newbie. all those squigly brackets and syntax for the if then and other contro; structures look and feel very odd to me. Jave is a bit better but not by much. Java is realy too sloww so kylix looks very promising. I like pascal (exept for the begin/end monotny and lole how clean python code looks) in that it has strong typing , clear syntax in comparison c/jave. I started with clarion and clipper where clipper had soft data handling.
how hard it will be to port a Delphi program from W$ to Linux?
Very easy if oyu use the CLX components , all you will need to do is change the uses clause then recompile. Kind of like changing the #include in c/java i think. This assume you use the clk and dont us any os dependedant stuff that wont cross over. That is a real jewal for guys who make a living coding and making apps , they can devolope it once edit , recompile and slap it on linux/windows.
BTW how big is the d/l, and will SuSE ever add it to their CDs?
These kind od downloads are allways big , I you are using modem like me , order the cd , have a budy burn one for you or DL it overnight. Hey of suse doesent have it on cd that wont stop me.
TIA!
Jim Hatridge Proud Linux User #88484 Owner -- beowulf-newbie list
I didn't vote for his daddy either! Libertarian Party www.lp.org
------------------------------------------------------- BayerWulf Jim's Beowulf Project Looking for giveaway computers and parts Email Jim for details on how you can help build a poor man's super computer.
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James (Jim) Hatridge writes:
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001, Phil Shrimpton wrote:
From: Damon Register
Hi,
I was drooling too until I saw the price. The price is too high.
http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-01-31-001-27-OP-CY-SW
They are releasing the 'full' version for free if you want to develop open source software.
Cheers
Phil
HI Guys!
What is better with Delphi? I mean I can program in 5 other languages, why should I learn this one? What makes it better than C for example? Any ideas on
I used Delphi in college for a software engineering course. Its main advantage is RAD (Rapid Application Development). You can crank out a usable interface in a matter of minutes. I am sure that there will be support for loading shared libraries, and calling C or C++ functions. So you don't have to give up C.
how hard it will be to port a Delphi program from W$ to Linux?
From what I have read, as long as you have not made any direct calls to the windows API it should take a matter of minutes. Just replace calls in the uses statements with the correct Linux calls. The uses statement is similar to #include in C.
I wonder if they will be supporting any other unices. That sure would be nice.
What is interesting is how they devided it into a desktop and server edition unlike the current tri level of foundation / Pro and Enterprise eds. There new user price has been high for a while , and there upgrade and competitve upgrades have been umder $500.00. Yes the price is hight , question becomes is it worth the price and will it make a real dent in devolopment time , as well as the number of projects you plan on. However it the base tool price is so high then how expensive will the add in libs and components from the third party be ? At 12:31 PM 1/31/2001 -0500, Damon Register wrote:
Samy Elashmawy wrote:
Drooollllll I was drooling too until I saw the price. The price is too high.
I would expect them to have some sort of upgrade version dor borland users and perhaps some sort of competitve upgrade for M$ devolpers as well. I I would be very surprised if they did.
Damon Register
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I think it will be the kick start into linux development that many of us want. then we can experiment with other tools. hmm did i say this b4 dids
-----Original Message----- From: Samy Elashmawy [mailto:samelash@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 8:38 AM To: damon.w.register@lmco.com Cc: Suse-Linux-E Subject: Re: [SLE] Kyix - Delphi for Linux
What is interesting is how they devided it into a desktop and server edition unlike the current tri level of foundation / Pro and Enterprise eds.
There new user price has been high for a while , and there upgrade and competitve upgrades have been umder $500.00. Yes the price is hight , question becomes is it worth the price and will it make a real dent in devolopment time , as well as the number of projects you plan on. However it the base tool price is so high then how expensive will the add in libs and components from the third party be ?
At 12:31 PM 1/31/2001 -0500, Damon Register wrote:
Samy Elashmawy wrote:
Drooollllll I was drooling too until I saw the price. The price is too high.
I would expect them to have some sort of upgrade version dor borland users and perhaps some sort of competitve upgrade for M$ devolpers as well. I I would be very surprised if they did.
Damon Register
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Yep , this looks to be a BIG kick in the behind to get devolopment on linux to realy explode. Especialy form the free edition http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-01-31-001-27-OP-CY-SW http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/16520.html This looks to be a revolution in the making. Think about it , A rock solid OS al linux , and a real rad tool tons of third party add ins. Just the fact the most add ins for delphi can be sucked into Kylix is very appealing. Look at the share/freeware stuff thats there for delphi ,not to mention the commercial add in components and libs.Want it on windows can do with kylix. Kylix will allow me to REALY move over to linux on a full scale ,as I can write the bloody app quickly in it. I bet it will be a lot quicker and faster than java , as its native compiled code on linux. Java need a lot of memory , and jbuiler need quit a bit of hose power its self. I do think its a real pisser that they have not made a native driver for posgresql and that will make for a whole bunch of howling.
Subject: RE: [SLE] Kyix - Delphi for Linux
I think it will be the kick start into linux development that many of us want.
then we can experiment with other tools.
hmm did i say this b4
dids
-----Original Message----- From: Samy Elashmawy [mailto:samelash@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 8:38 AM To: damon.w.register@lmco.com Cc: Suse-Linux-E Subject: Re: [SLE] Kyix - Delphi for Linux
What is interesting is how they devided it into a desktop and server edition unlike the current tri level of foundation / Pro and Enterprise eds.
There new user price has been high for a while , and there upgrade and competitve upgrades have been umder $500.00. Yes the price is hight , question becomes is it worth the price and will it make a real dent in devolopment time , as well as the number of projects you plan on. However it the base tool price is so high then how expensive will the add in libs and components from the third party be ?
At 12:31 PM 1/31/2001 -0500, Damon Register wrote:
Samy Elashmawy wrote:
Drooollllll I was drooling too until I saw the price. The price is too high.
I would expect them to have some sort of upgrade version dor borland users and perhaps some sort of competitve upgrade for M$ devolpers as well. I I would be very surprised if they did.
Damon Register
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Well I haven't seen the Linux version and I will be waiting for C++ Builder
to be moved over (Builder is the C++ version of Delphi).
However before Builder was available I did use Delphi and I have to say that
my productivity for writing Windows programs went up by an order of
magnitude when i started using it.
I will certainly look closely at the Linux version of C++ Builder when it
comes out later on this year.
Alan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Samy Elashmawy"
What is interesting is how they devided it into a desktop and server edition unlike the current tri level of foundation / Pro and Enterprise eds.
There new user price has been high for a while , and there upgrade and competitve upgrades have been umder $500.00. Yes the price is hight , question becomes is it worth the price and will it make a real dent in devolopment time , as well as the number of projects you plan on. However it the base tool price is so high then how expensive will the add in libs and components from the third party be ?
----- snip -----
dids wrote:
It seems that Borland will be launching this today at the LinuxWorld conference. Thanks for the info. I will have to check the Borland web site.
The only thing is that it seems to be v expensive unless they are holding I hate that. What is the price?
Damon Register
Kylix Desktop Developer $999.00 thats expensive hope there is something they havent told us ? Launch is later today i think. dids
-----Original Message----- From: Damon Register [mailto:damon.w.register@lmco.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:20 AM Cc: Suse-Linux-E Subject: Re: [SLE] Kyix - Delphi for Linux
dids wrote:
It seems that Borland will be launching this today at the LinuxWorld conference. Thanks for the info. I will have to check the Borland web site.
The only thing is that it seems to be v expensive unless they are holding I hate that. What is the price?
Damon Register
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Isn't that the enterprise developer version? I think I saw something about the 'desktop' version being about $100 JLK On Wednesday 31 January 2001 05:44, dids wrote:
Kylix Desktop Developer $999.00
thats expensive
hope there is something they havent told us ? Launch is later today i think.
dids
-----Original Message----- From: Damon Register [mailto:damon.w.register@lmco.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:20 AM Cc: Suse-Linux-E Subject: Re: [SLE] Kyix - Delphi for Linux
dids wrote:
It seems that Borland will be launching this today at the LinuxWorld conference.
Thanks for the info. I will have to check the Borland web site.
The only thing is that it seems to be v expensive unless they
are holding I hate that. What is the price?
Damon Register
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-- Scientific theories, according to Sir Karl Popper, can be "falsified," or proven wrong, by experiment. Unscientific theories -Marxist dialectical history and Freudian psychology were Popper's favorites- are formed in such a way that they cannot be falsified by data.
From: Jerry Kreps
Hi,
Kylix Desktop Developer $999.00
Isn't that the enterprise developer version? I think I saw something about the 'desktop' version being about $100
The 'Open Edition' is $99 or free to download, the Enterprise edition will not be out till Mid2001, this will include CORBA and distributed development and also the ability to use C++ as well as Object Pascal. Cheers Phil
participants (9)
-
Alan Lenton -
Damon Register -
dids -
James Hatridge -
Jerry Kreps -
Jesse Marlin -
Phil Shrimpton -
Samy Elashmawy -
Tor Sigurdsson