[opensuse] Thunderbird doesn't open a link in browser.
Hi. I run opensuse 11.2. The mailer is Thunderbird 3.0b4 and Firefox is 3.5.5 I cannot open links when I try in Thunderbird. How can I solve this ?. /Erik -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
I run opensuse 11.2.
The mailer is Thunderbird 3.0b4 and Firefox is 3.5.5
I cannot open links when I try in Thunderbird.
How can I solve this ?.
It's a known bug in Thunderbird 3.0b4. You can solve it by either waiting for the bug to be fixed, or you can workaround it in the meantime by making the changes discussed in this bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunderbird/+bug/210804 where the best solution seems to be to edit pref.js and add these three lines: user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.http", "/usr/bin/firefox"); user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.https", "/usr/bin/firefox"); user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.ftp", "/usr/bin/firefox"); I've tested this and it works in 11.2 C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi, Am 28.11.2009 14:27, schrieb Clayton:
I run opensuse 11.2.
The mailer is Thunderbird 3.0b4 and Firefox is 3.5.5
I cannot open links when I try in Thunderbird.
How can I solve this ?.
It's a known bug in Thunderbird 3.0b4.
It's not a bug in Thunderbird. It's a bug known bug in the KDE installation of openSUSE 11.2. http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:Most_Annoying_Bugs_11.2 (includes a fix)
You can solve it by either waiting for the bug to be fixed, or you can workaround it in the meantime by making the changes discussed in this bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunderbird/+bug/210804 where the best solution seems to be to edit pref.js and add these three lines:
user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.http", "/usr/bin/firefox"); user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.https", "/usr/bin/firefox"); user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.ftp", "/usr/bin/firefox");
I've tested this and it works in 11.2
I cannot believe that. All the code which supported these prefs above was removed from mozilla long ago. Your referred bug is talking about Thunderbird 2 which still had support for them. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
It's a known bug in Thunderbird 3.0b4.
It's not a bug in Thunderbird. It's a bug known bug in the KDE installation of openSUSE 11.2. http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:Most_Annoying_Bugs_11.2 (includes a fix)
Hmmm.. I could have sworn I saw a discussion here about this, with reference to a Mozilla bug report on it.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunderbird/+bug/210804 where the best solution seems to be to edit pref.js and add these three lines:
user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.http", "/usr/bin/firefox"); user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.https", "/usr/bin/firefox"); user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.ftp", "/usr/bin/firefox");
I've tested this and it works in 11.2
I cannot believe that. All the code which supported these prefs above was removed from mozilla long ago. Your referred bug is talking about Thunderbird 2 which still had support for them.
You're right, that is a TBidr2 bug fix.. I pulled it up with a real fast Google search when I was looking for the solution to this TBird3 problem... and it does work (despite being for TBird2). I tested it before clicking send. :-P C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/28/2009 03:01 PM, Clayton wrote:
It's a known bug in Thunderbird 3.0b4.
It's not a bug in Thunderbird. It's a bug known bug in the KDE installation of openSUSE 11.2. http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:Most_Annoying_Bugs_11.2 (includes a fix)
Hmmm.. I could have sworn I saw a discussion here about this, with reference to a Mozilla bug report on it.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunderbird/+bug/210804 where the best solution seems to be to edit pref.js and add these three lines:
user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.http", "/usr/bin/firefox"); user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.https", "/usr/bin/firefox"); user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.ftp", "/usr/bin/firefox");
I've tested this and it works in 11.2
I cannot believe that. All the code which supported these prefs above was removed from mozilla long ago. Your referred bug is talking about Thunderbird 2 which still had support for them.
You're right, that is a TBidr2 bug fix.. I pulled it up with a real fast Google search when I was looking for the solution to this TBird3 problem... and it does work (despite being for TBird2). I tested it before clicking send. :-P
C.
Clayton. Thanks for your reply. I have added the three lines: user_pref("mailnews.tags.$label3.color", "#009900"); user_pref("mailnews.tags.$label3.tag", "Personal"); user_pref("mailnews.tags.$label4.color", "#3333FF"); user_pref("mailnews.tags.$label4.tag", "To Do"); user_pref("mailnews.tags.$label5.color", "#993399"); user_pref("mailnews.tags.$label5.tag", "Later"); user_pref("mailnews.tags.version", 2); user_pref("network.cookie.prefsMigrated", true); user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.http", "/usr/bin/firefox"); user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.https", "/usr/bin/firefox"); user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.ftp", "/usr/bin/firefox"); But I cannot get it to work. Ken, how to do this ?. /Erik -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Erik Jakobsen said the following on 11/28/2009 08:06 AM:
[...]
But I cannot get it to work.
This is why I use scripts. Routing it via a script I cal put logger statements in there to see * if the script has been called * what its arguments are * indicate if finally invoking firefox failed But then as far as computers and software goes I'm a paranoid skeptic. -- life, n.: A whim of several billion cells to be you for a while. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Erik Jakobsen said the following on 11/28/2009 07:12 AM:
Hi.
I run opensuse 11.2.
The mailer is Thunderbird 3.0b4 and Firefox is 3.5.5
I cannot open links when I try in Thunderbird.
How can I solve this ?.
Did it work before or is this a new/virgin installation of any of those components? Have you a) googled for this problem. That's how I solved it when I first installed T'Bird :=) b) searched the archives of this group If you enter "about:config" in the address bar in Firefox you will see settings that pertain to T'Bird as well. OR in T'Bird menu -> edit -> preferences -> advanced -> general -> config editor and look for "network.protocol-handler.app.http" I have it set to run a s small shell script that runs firefox in such a way as to open a new tab rather than a new window. Having a shell script there gives you ore flexibility than trying to invoke firefox directly; you have control over library settings, environment and debug settings. This has another advantage. I set it up this way about six years ago and it has worked unchanged for three different distributions and all upgrades of the OS and Mozilla during that period. Its also a little easier to edit a shell script :-) -- No one who has been a programmer can escape the conclusion that computers highlight our inability to communicate. -- Mike Walsh, _Infosystems_, Nov 87 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/28/2009 02:50 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:
Erik Jakobsen said the following on 11/28/2009 07:12 AM:
Hi.
I run opensuse 11.2.
The mailer is Thunderbird 3.0b4 and Firefox is 3.5.5
I cannot open links when I try in Thunderbird.
How can I solve this ?.
Did it work before or is this a new/virgin installation of any of those components?
Have you a) googled for this problem. That's how I solved it when I first installed T'Bird :=)
b) searched the archives of this group
If you enter "about:config" in the address bar in Firefox you will see settings that pertain to T'Bird as well. OR in T'Bird menu -> edit -> preferences -> advanced -> general -> config editor and look for "network.protocol-handler.app.http"
I have it set to run a s small shell script that runs firefox in such a way as to open a new tab rather than a new window.
Having a shell script there gives you ore flexibility than trying to invoke firefox directly; you have control over library settings, environment and debug settings.
This has another advantage. I set it up this way about six years ago and it has worked unchanged for three different distributions and all upgrades of the OS and Mozilla during that period.
Its also a little easier to edit a shell script :-)
As it's a new install, I nver hav it to work on this install. I have googled, but found nothing for the versions I run. Why do you ask if I have googled ?. I didn't searched the archives. I'm not sure what to look after running the about:config /Erik -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Erik Jakobsen said the following on 11/28/2009 08:09 AM:
[...][ Why do you ask if I have googled ?.
Given that its so easy, you'd be amazed at how many people don't.
I'm not sure what to look after running the about:config
I thought I said
and look for "network.protocol-handler.app.http"
-- Psst! Viral marketing works! Tell everyone you know! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/28/2009 03:28 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:
Erik Jakobsen said the following on 11/28/2009 08:09 AM:
[...][ Why do you ask if I have googled ?.
Given that its so easy, you'd be amazed at how many people don't.
Before I ask, I always do search Google.
I'm not sure what to look after running the about:config
I thought I said
and look for "network.protocol-handler.app.http"
Ok, but running it in FF, I can't see the string. In T'bird I can: http://www.urbakken.dk/about:config Why does it now work ?. /Erik -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/28/2009 09:28 AM, Anton Aylward pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Erik Jakobsen said the following on 11/28/2009 08:09 AM:
[...][ Why do you ask if I have googled ?.
Given that its so easy, you'd be amazed at how many people don't.
I'm not sure what to look after running the about:config
I thought I said
and look for "network.protocol-handler.app.http"
And if you are running Tbird 3.x you will not find it because it does not exist! -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/28/2009 03:59 PM, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
On 11/28/2009 09:28 AM, Anton Aylward pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Erik Jakobsen said the following on 11/28/2009 08:09 AM:
[...][ Why do you ask if I have googled ?.
Given that its so easy, you'd be amazed at how many people don't.
I'm not sure what to look after running the about:config
I thought I said
and look for "network.protocol-handler.app.http"
And if you are running Tbird 3.x you will not find it because it does not exist!
You are right Ken. This also is my experiences. I installed the gnome-control-center Now what to do after this ?. /Erik -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/28/2009 09:05 AM, Erik Jakobsen pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
On 11/28/2009 03:59 PM, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
On 11/28/2009 09:28 AM, Anton Aylward pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Erik Jakobsen said the following on 11/28/2009 08:09 AM:
[...][ Why do you ask if I have googled ?.
Given that its so easy, you'd be amazed at how many people don't.
I'm not sure what to look after running the about:config
I thought I said
and look for "network.protocol-handler.app.http"
And if you are running Tbird 3.x you will not find it because it does not exist!
You are right Ken. This also is my experiences.
I installed the
gnome-control-center
Now what to do after this ?.
/Erik
At a prompt in terminal type gnome-control-center and on the left hand side is a selection for Common Tasks-->Preferred Applications. Set the email client and default browser there. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 28 November 2009 11:10:31 am Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
At a prompt in terminal type gnome-control-center and on the left hand side is a selection for Common Tasks-->Preferred Applications. Set the email client and default browser there.
What precisely does this change? And why is it necessary to do it in the gnome control center since neither Tbird or Firefox are Gnome applications? -- A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
John Andersen said the following on 11/28/2009 02:24 PM:
On Saturday 28 November 2009 11:10:31 am Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
At a prompt in terminal type gnome-control-center and on the left hand side is a selection for Common Tasks-->Preferred Applications. Set the email client and default browser there.
What precisely does this change? And why is it necessary to do it in the gnome control center since neither Tbird or Firefox are Gnome applications?
It seems they are. Unlike, say, AcrobatReader or RealPlayer, which are 'agnostic' as far as KDE/GNOME/Enlightenment/xfce are concerned. Yes, this is annoying. -- To solve an interesting problem, first find a problem that is interesting to you. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Ken Schneider - openSUSE said the following on 11/28/2009 09:59 AM:
And if you are running Tbird 3.x you will not find it because it does not exist!
I am, 3.5.5, and it does. As I said, I use a script. I just put a logger statement in that script and clicked on a URl in a mail message. And LO! the log message appears in /var/log/localmessages: Nov 28 10:28:09 BigBoy logger: exec /usr/bin/firefox -remote openurl(http://www.urbakken.dk/about:config, new-tab) Sorry, Ken, I don't care what the documents say, actual testing demonstrates otherwise. The verb trounces the noun. Talk to your local auditor, he likes seeing documentation, but always believes in 'substantive testing'. Perhaps that why people hate auditors. -- There are two ways to slide easily through life: to believe everything or to doubt everything; both ways save us from thinking. -- Alfred Korzybski -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/28/2009 10:33 AM, Anton Aylward pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Ken Schneider - openSUSE said the following on 11/28/2009 09:59 AM:
And if you are running Tbird 3.x you will not find it because it does not exist!
I am, 3.5.5, and it does.
As I said, I use a script. I just put a logger statement in that script and clicked on a URl in a mail message. And LO! the log message appears in /var/log/localmessages:
Nov 28 10:28:09 BigBoy logger: exec /usr/bin/firefox -remote openurl(http://www.urbakken.dk/about:config, new-tab)
Sorry, Ken, I don't care what the documents say, actual testing demonstrates otherwise. The verb trounces the noun. Talk to your local auditor, he likes seeing documentation, but always believes in 'substantive testing'. Perhaps that why people hate auditors.
I not using documentation as a source I'm using the actual application. Perhaps you had put those settings there earlier and forgot. In a fresh install of TBird 3.x they *do not* exist. Don't believe me, add a new user and test it out. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Ken Schneider - openSUSE said the following on 11/28/2009 02:08 PM:
I not using documentation as a source I'm using the actual application. Perhaps you had put those settings there earlier and forgot. In a fresh install of TBird 3.x they *do not* exist. Don't believe me, add a new user and test it out.
Oh, is *that* what you meant? I took what you say to mean that there was no longer the code to support this, that was what "does not exist". It was the 'no longer' that threw me. I don't recall them ever being there and set by default. Of course I had them set in an earlier install! Years ago I went through this same problem and had to create them. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 28/11/09 14:28, Anton Aylward wrote:
Erik Jakobsen said the following on 11/28/2009 08:09 AM:
[...][ Why do you ask if I have googled ?.
Given that its so easy, you'd be amazed at how many people don't.
I'm not sure what to look after running the about:config
I thought I said
and look for "network.protocol-handler.app.http"
"network.protocol-handler.app.http" makes no difference to the problem. Indeed, its default value is /usr/bin/firefox As Wolfgang has pointed out, short of installing gnome-control-center the solution is to add the following lines to /usr/share/kde4/env/startkde.suse.sh : gconftool-2 -s --type=string /desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http/command "/usr/bin/firefox \"%s\"" gconftool-2 -s --type=string /desktop/gnome/url-handlers/https/command "/usr/bin/firefox \"%s\"" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/28/2009 08:50 AM, Anton Aylward pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Erik Jakobsen said the following on 11/28/2009 07:12 AM:
Hi.
I run opensuse 11.2.
The mailer is Thunderbird 3.0b4 and Firefox is 3.5.5
I cannot open links when I try in Thunderbird.
How can I solve this ?.
Since these are both "gnome" apps you will need to install gnome-control-center and make the appropriate mods there. The network.protocol-handler configs are for older versions of Thunderbird. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Ken Schneider - openSUSE said the following on 11/28/2009 08:59 AM:
Since these are both "gnome" apps you will need to install gnome-control-center and make the appropriate mods there.
On day, perhaps, there will be three types of software for Linus 1. KDE software like KDE, Konqueror, Kmail and Koffice 2. Gnome software ... Or perhaps that should be expressed more generally to include Enlightenment et al. These will build on common libraries, common GUI libraries and then libraries specific to the window manager. So that if you want a Gnome system you can have a pure Gnome system so long as you don't install something like Konqueror. And similarly for KDE. Then there will be the window manager agnostic software .. 3. The window-manager agnostic software has no dependencies on any specific window manager libraries or control packages. Category #3 OUGHT to include things like, yes, you guessed it, * Thunderbird * Firefox and * GIMP * Some CD/DVD burner * Music/video players. If RealPlayer and AdobeReader can be 'agnostic' enough to run on MAC, Windows and Linux ... and Mozilla can run on those platforms too, why does Mozilla have to be tied in to Gnome? Why do KDE users have to install gnome-control-center for Mozilla? Why is Mozilla a gnome application and not 'agnostic'? Is this ignorance, arrogance or is it something that is impossible? Enquiring minds might not want to know but it seems there are many frustrated users who might. -- The future, according to some scientists, will be exactly like the past, only far more expensive. -- John Sladek -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/28/2009 02:59 PM, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
On 11/28/2009 08:50 AM, Anton Aylward pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Erik Jakobsen said the following on 11/28/2009 07:12 AM:
Hi.
I run opensuse 11.2.
The mailer is Thunderbird 3.0b4 and Firefox is 3.5.5
I cannot open links when I try in Thunderbird.
How can I solve this ?.
Since these are both "gnome" apps you will need to install gnome-control-center and make the appropriate mods there.
The network.protocol-handler configs are for older versions of Thunderbird.
This link solved it: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=551333#c1 Thanks folks for all you kind comments /Erik -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 28 November 2009 05:59:52 am Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
On 11/28/2009 08:50 AM, Anton Aylward pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Erik Jakobsen said the following on 11/28/2009 07:12 AM:
Hi.
I run opensuse 11.2.
The mailer is Thunderbird 3.0b4 and Firefox is 3.5.5
I cannot open links when I try in Thunderbird.
How can I solve this ?.
Since these are both "gnome" apps you will need to install gnome-control-center and make the appropriate mods there.
Since when is either Firefox or Thunderbird a Gnome app? -- A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
In <200911281052.37300.jsamyth@gmail.com>, John Andersen wrote:
Since when is either Firefox or Thunderbird a Gnome app?
Since they started storing their configuration in gconf2. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/
On 11/28/2009 08:15 PM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
In <200911281052.37300.jsamyth@gmail.com>, John Andersen wrote:
Since when is either Firefox or Thunderbird a Gnome app?
Since they started storing their configuration in gconf2.
They don't store any configuration in gconf. But they are interacting with gconf for desktop integration. Desktop integration for mozilla means Gnome integration. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2009-11-28 at 21:29 +0100, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
On 11/28/2009 08:15 PM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
In <200911281052.37300.jsamyth@gmail.com>, John Andersen wrote:
Since when is either Firefox or Thunderbird a Gnome app? Since they started storing their configuration in gconf2. They don't store any configuration in gconf. But they are interacting with gconf for desktop integration. Desktop integration for mozilla means Gnome integration.
Wow, this is excellent news; can't believe I missed it. Is there documentation or release notes for this? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi, Am 29.11.2009 12:49, schrieb Adam Tauno Williams:
On Sat, 2009-11-28 at 21:29 +0100, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
On 11/28/2009 08:15 PM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
In <200911281052.37300.jsamyth@gmail.com>, John Andersen wrote:
Since when is either Firefox or Thunderbird a Gnome app? Since they started storing their configuration in gconf2. They don't store any configuration in gconf. But they are interacting with gconf for desktop integration. Desktop integration for mozilla means Gnome integration.
Wow, this is excellent news; can't believe I missed it. Is there documentation or release notes for this?
Not sure what kind of documenation you mean? That Mozilla apps are using gnome infrastructure to do certain tasks is the case since quite some time (even from the beginning of Firefox). If that is excellent or not is something that KDE users would probably answer differently. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2009-11-28 at 21:29 +0100, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
On 11/28/2009 08:15 PM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
In <200911281052.37300.jsamyth@gmail.com>, John Andersen wrote:
Since when is either Firefox or Thunderbird a Gnome app?
Since they started storing their configuration in gconf2.
They don't store any configuration in gconf. But they are interacting with gconf for desktop integration. Desktop integration for mozilla means Gnome integration.
Wow, this is excellent news; can't believe I missed it. Is there documentation or release notes for this? Hummmmm what an unfortunate pile of
On Sunday 29 Nov 2009 11:49:23 Adam Tauno Williams wrote: they will have to be weaned off this darn gnome stuff we can then loose all the gconf that is a waste of space on a KDE system ;-) Pete . -- Powered by openSUSE 11.2 Milestone 2 (x86_64) Kernel: 2.6.30-rc6-git3-4- default KDE: 4.2.86 (KDE 4.2.86 (KDE 4.3 >= 20090514)) "release 1" 16:15 up 8 days 6:05, 4 users, load average: 0.80, 0.72, 0.55
On 11/29/2009 8:18 AM, Peter Nikolic wrote:
On Sat, 2009-11-28 at 21:29 +0100, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
On 11/28/2009 08:15 PM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
In<200911281052.37300.jsamyth@gmail.com>, John Andersen wrote:
Since when is either Firefox or Thunderbird a Gnome app?
Since they started storing their configuration in gconf2.
They don't store any configuration in gconf. But they are interacting with gconf for desktop integration. Desktop integration for mozilla means Gnome integration.
Wow, this is excellent news; can't believe I missed it. Is there documentation or release notes for this? Hummmmm what an unfortunate pile of
On Sunday 29 Nov 2009 11:49:23 Adam Tauno Williams wrote: they will have to be weaned off this darn gnome stuff we can then loose all the gconf that is a waste of space on a KDE system
;-)
Pete .
Well in fairness, it is simply a file name that they use. KDE should create and maintain that file, and or wean firefox off of it some how. But it is ridiculous for the Firefox people to hitch their star ONLY to Gnome interfaces. They might just as well insist these settings be in the Registry. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 29 Nov 2009 23:05:51 John Andersen wrote:
They might just as well insist these settings be in the Registry.
DO you mind we are trying to keep this clean ;-) Pete . -- Powered by openSUSE 11.2 Milestone 2 (x86_64) Kernel: 2.6.30-rc6-git3-4- default KDE: 4.2.86 (KDE 4.2.86 (KDE 4.3 >= 20090514)) "release 1" 07:22 up 8 days 21:12, 4 users, load average: 0.06, 0.03, 0.00
Peter Nikolic said the following on 11/30/2009 02:24 AM:
On Sunday 29 Nov 2009 23:05:51 John Andersen wrote:
They might just as well insist these settings be in the Registry.
DO you mind we are trying to keep this clean ;-)
Didn't we just have this discussion under the thread titled "how to stop Dolphin from scattering .directory files all over the filesystem?" I said then and I'll say again ... So, tell me again, how is the centralized model, as epitomized by Microsoft Window's registry, superior to the kind of distributed model that *NIX has been using for so long? Oh, right - its just one application. We can't put it in a .config file with comments and explanations of the meaning and options of the various settings like other applications do, and use the self same editing tools, including VI, because a) that would mean it would be confusing for Windows users and grandparents b) it starts up slower than a binary file 'cos of the time taken to parse it. (and lets not even consider the cost of XML parsing!) c) it would be comprehensible to hackers without reams of documentation But of course, as the modern Linux GUIs show, as OpenOffice shows as MONO shows, there are many people who are convinced that Linux is only going to succeed by aping Windows as closely as possible. -- "To be conscious of one's ignorance is the beginning of wisdom". -- Sri Ram -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/30/2009 4:01 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
Peter Nikolic said the following on 11/30/2009 02:24 AM:
On Sunday 29 Nov 2009 23:05:51 John Andersen wrote:
They might just as well insist these settings be in the Registry.
DO you mind we are trying to keep this clean ;-)
Didn't we just have this discussion under the thread titled "how to stop Dolphin from scattering .directory files all over the filesystem?"
I said then and I'll say again ...
So, tell me again, how is the centralized model, as epitomized by Microsoft Window's registry, superior to the kind of distributed model that *NIX has been using for so long?
Oh, right - its just one application. We can't put it in a .config file with comments and explanations of the meaning and options of the various settings like other applications do, and use the self same editing tools, including VI, because
a) that would mean it would be confusing for Windows users and grandparents
b) it starts up slower than a binary file 'cos of the time taken to parse it. (and lets not even consider the cost of XML parsing!)
c) it would be comprehensible to hackers without reams of documentation
But of course, as the modern Linux GUIs show, as OpenOffice shows as MONO shows, there are many people who are convinced that Linux is only going to succeed by aping Windows as closely as possible.
For pete sake Anton, are you totally incapable or recognizing humor even in the presence of smilies? SWOOSH!!! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
On 11/30/2009 4:01 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
... But of course, as the modern Linux GUIs show, as OpenOffice shows as MONO shows, there are many people who are convinced that Linux is only going to succeed by aping Windows as closely as possible.
For pete sake Anton, are you totally incapable or recognizing humor even in the presence of smilies?
Well, even recognizing the danger of getting into yet another pointless religious argument between the Hardheaded Old Farts who have to cling to the command line no matter what, and the Empty-Headed Young Twits who can't see beyond the eye candy in their Latest Hot Bling-filled desktop, I think it's worthwhile to have a discussion regarding where computing in general, and linux in particular, are going. Being a fairly HOF myself, but not tied too tightly to the Ancient Computing World, I see the development of GUI's as a brilliantly positive step forward that can make the full power of computing available to anyone who has the moxie to work with it at all, and I refuse to accept the declaration that only the command line can give you real power. Take, for example, the Firefox configuration that is now under discussion. I agree it's silly to have just a single system-wide configuration file like the Windows Registry, even on an application basis. On the other hand, we HOF's should recall that the unix profile is multilevel in all the shells I've used (Bourne, ksh, csh, bash). Each of the shells has both a system-wide and a user-specific configuration file -- indeed, there are a couple of them at both levels. The Firefox arrangement is most of a perfect setup, lacking only easy access to configuration and good commenting, or, better, a help section, telling us how to use it. Ever since I found out about about:config and about:plugins one of the first things I've done upon installation has been to type them into the address bar and bookmark them. Mozilla ought to do that along with the marketing crap they put into the mozilla folder in the last few releases. I have no use for the text-based web browsers and little for such antique editors as vi and emacs (and yes, I do know and use vi when I have to). kate, jedit, etc. do just as much in practice as any of them, and are much easier to use. The little scripting I need is quite well taken care of with selection and filtering. I've never had a need for complex regular expressions, but I recognize the extra power they can give, and have experimented with them on occasion. I see no reason their power cannot be duplicated in a GUI-based editor, but I've never seen it, it's true. I suspect that those who really need it are already adept, and the GUI programmers don't see the need. There's no reason at all to limit the multilevel configuration paradigm to the command line, but I'm not aware of any GUI applications that use them; and what configuration files are there are either very limited or hard to get to -- or both. When I was limited to the command line, I couldn't script much of what I wanted to do because I had to decide whether to learn ed or awk or sed or bison or bash scripting or whatever, and had neither the time nor the will to bother with them, so I frequently did what I needed to do manually. Since I've never been a systems administrator or systems programmer, the closest thing I've ever had to a common single task has been handled quite well with make -- I haven't even had to learn link scripting! So I never had a strong incentive to take up the antique editing scripts. To summarize (which halfway convinces me that most of what I just said was pointless :-), pursuing an accelerating path toward GUI support for more and more of computing's power, and melding the fundamental power of the old command line with the intuitive power of the GUI, can give us the best of both worlds; and I'd like to see just that -- a true melding of the two kinds of power. I don't see them as incompatible, and I think the idea that GUI is bad just because Microsoft stole it from Apple, who stole it from Xerox, is just plain silly. Just as i think the idea that CLI is bad just because it's old, is just plain silly. Just as I think the idea that either is fundamentally superior to the other is silly. How many of you HOF's really don't use a GUI desktop, and how many of you EYT's really don't use selection and filtering? Thank you, kde, gnome, enlightenment, twm, fvwm, etc. Thank you, even Microsoft and Apple, for popularizing Xerox's brilliant new user interface paradigm that has opened computer use to millions who couldn't have used the old stuff we loved in the '70's, and made life easier for us professionals who have always had other things to think about than the details of an obscure, counterintuitive script interpreter when we had a job to do. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 John E. Perry wrote:
On 11/30/2009 4:01 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
... Being a fairly HOF myself, but not tied too tightly to the Ancient Computing World, I see the development of GUI's as a brilliantly
John Andersen wrote: positive step forward that can make the full power of computing available to anyone who has the moxie to work with it at all, and I refuse to accept the declaration that only the command line can give you real power.
As I remember using a Sun box with a GUI interface in about 1985ish (and it had been around for some time then), the GUI is hardly new or innovative in 2009. What is disappointing is the complete inability to move beyond ideas in that initial interface in the 24+ years since. It has been dressed up in all sorts of fancy clothes since, but the underlying semantics have not changed much. - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAksU/pYACgkQasN0sSnLmgKSCgCfb1IthsQWsY2i7mG+lhj9mmPA djIAoJkEIzBg4qA2pnKq/XhPdr/5gVV0 =qZzG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
G T Smith said the following on 12/01/2009 06:31 AM:
As I remember using a Sun box with a GUI interface in about 1985ish (and it had been around for some time then),
Indeed. About 1983 for me. The MAC came out in 1984, and I recall Windows followed other, technically better products for the PC.
the GUI is hardly new or innovative in 2009. What is disappointing is the complete inability to move beyond ideas in that initial interface in the 24+ years since. It has been dressed up in all sorts of fancy clothes since, but the underlying semantics have not changed much.
You mean like the floating menu bars or that Microsoft thing .. the strip, or whatever it was called. -- A hollow voice says, "A hollow voice says, 'Plugh'." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2009-12-01 at 08:56 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
G T Smith said the following on 12/01/2009 06:31 AM:
As I remember using a Sun box with a GUI interface in about 1985ish (and it had been around for some time then), Indeed. About 1983 for me. The MAC came out in 1984, and I recall Windows followed other, technically better products for the PC.
Such as what? GEM, GeoWorks, Quarterdeck? Ever look into developing applications on those platforms? I did, at least for GEM and GeoWorks - Microsoft Windows has *awesome* in comparison [ from a developers perspective ]. Holy *@^*&^$ where those terrible platforms. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Adam Tauno Williams said the following on 12/01/2009 09:17 AM:
On Tue, 2009-12-01 at 08:56 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
G T Smith said the following on 12/01/2009 06:31 AM:
As I remember using a Sun box with a GUI interface in about 1985ish (and it had been around for some time then), Indeed. About 1983 for me. The MAC came out in 1984, and I recall Windows followed other, technically better products for the PC.
Such as what? GEM, GeoWorks, Quarterdeck? Ever look into developing applications on those platforms? I did, at least for GEM and GeoWorks - Microsoft Windows has *awesome* in comparison [ from a developers perspective ]. Holy *@^*&^$ where those terrible platforms.
That's probably a good reason why they died :-) But I recall that in '84/5 I was working at a shop where we were using SUN workstations but needed a 'cheaper' platform for customers. Demos of all of the above showed they were more responsive than MS-Windows at that time, and this appealed more to management. (I left shortly after, just before their 2nd stage financing failed.) If you recall, back then, Microsoft wasn't the leader it is now. It was just another one of the pack. If you want a take of why Microsoft did pull ahead of the pack shortly after that, and its not due to technical excellence!, try "In Search of Stupidity: Over Twenty Years of High Tech Marketing Disasters" http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590597214?ie=UTF8&tag=emergentprope-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1590597214 Its well worth a couple of bucks. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 01 Dec 2009 14:17:11 Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
On Tue, 2009-12-01 at 08:56 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
G T Smith said the following on 12/01/2009 06:31 AM:
As I remember using a Sun box with a GUI interface in about 1985ish (and it had been around for some time then),
Indeed. About 1983 for me. The MAC came out in 1984, and I recall Windows followed other, technically better products for the PC.
Such as what? GEM, GeoWorks, Quarterdeck? Ever look into developing applications on those platforms? I did, at least for GEM and GeoWorks - Microsoft Windows has *awesome* in comparison [ from a developers perspective ]. Holy *@^*&^$ where those terrible platforms.
Ye Gads GEM now that was Hummmm terrible would be way to polite Amstrad PC1640 with dos think it was 2.1 and GEM Desktop on a series of coloured 5.25" floppys Pete . -- Powered by openSUSE 11.2 Milestone 2 (x86_64) Kernel: 2.6.30-rc6-git3-4- default KDE: 4.2.86 (KDE 4.2.86 (KDE 4.3 >= 20090514)) "release 1" 22:29 up 10 days 12:19, 4 users, load average: 0.54, 0.59, 0.41
John E. Perry said the following on 11/30/2009 09:18 PM:
John Andersen wrote:
On 11/30/2009 4:01 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
... But of course, as the modern Linux GUIs show, as OpenOffice shows as MONO shows, there are many people who are convinced that Linux is only going to succeed by aping Windows as closely as possible.
For pete sake Anton, are you totally incapable or recognizing humor even in the presence of smilies?
Well, even recognizing the danger of getting into yet another pointless religious argument between the Hardheaded Old Farts who have to cling to the command line no matter what, and the Empty-Headed Young Twits who can't see beyond the eye candy in their Latest Hot Bling-filled desktop, I think it's worthwhile to have a discussion regarding where computing in general, and linux in particular, are going.
Being a fairly HOF myself, but not tied too tightly to the Ancient Computing World, I see the development of GUI's as a brilliantly positive step forward that can make the full power of computing available to anyone who has the moxie to work with it at all, and I refuse to accept the declaration that only the command line can give you real power.
Indeed. And my argument wasn't that the GUI was wrong but that the idea that Linux can only succeed by its tools and GUI aping Windows as closely as possible is the only path to follow. Back in the early 80s when Windows came out it had to differentiate itself not only from the Apple interlace but also from competing GUI on the Intel PC platform, some of which were faster and had more applications bundled. They did this though marketing, not technology. I particularly remember one of their marketing claims that the GUI would simplify use because, being icon/menu driven you wouldn't need to learn lots of command line options. They phrased this in such a way that the transition from WordPerfect to Microsoft Word would be a non-issue and wouldn't require re-training since all the functions were there in the GUI. (Isn't there a version of VI like that? :-) ) Now when you read reviews of things like OpenOffice it tends to be, for the most part, a technical comparison, since the GUI looks pretty much the same. Even reviewers who are Windows users think its a fair competitor. But when you read reviews of GIMP done by people from the Windows world they concentrate entirely on the GUI and slag the Gimp 'cos it has a different interface. -- "You have heard me speak of Professor Moriarty?" "The famous scientific criminal, as famous among crooks as--" "My blushes, Watson!" Holmes murmured in a deprecating voice. "I was about to say, as he is unknown to the public." "A touch! A distinct touch!" cried Holmes. "You are developing a certain unexpected vein of pawky humour, Watson, against which I must learn to guard myself. -- Sherlock Holmes and Watson, in "The Valley of Fear" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2009-12-01 at 08:52 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
John E. Perry said the following on 11/30/2009 09:18 PM:
John Andersen wrote:
On 11/30/2009 4:01 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
... But of course, as the modern Linux GUIs show, as OpenOffice shows as MONO shows, there are many people who are convinced that Linux is only going to succeed by aping Windows as closely as possible.
Neither Open Office nor Mono "ape" Windows. Maybe Open Office is aping PFS or Word Start or VisiCalc? Or is Office aping Write and GeoWorks? Mono implements many things *not* available in Windows. And, essentially, the CLR doesn't have much of anything to do with Windows other than having been researched and developed at Microsoft [much like ODBC and DCE was/is]. Is it just ok to "ape" things not originally developed at Microsoft? Back to GConf... comparing GConf to the Windows Registry is bogus as well. Windows Registry is neither the beginning nor the archetype for configuration management and/or centralized information repositories (X.500, LDAP, Mac's NetInfo, AIX's ODM, etc...). Conflating the implementation (Windows' Registry) with the concept (centralized configuration) is an error.
For pete sake Anton, are you totally incapable or recognizing humor even in the presence of smilies?
Apparently.
Well, even recognizing the danger of getting into yet another pointless religious argument between the Hardheaded Old Farts who have to cling to the command line no matter what, and the Empty-Headed Young Twits who can't see beyond the eye candy in their Latest Hot Bling-filled desktop, I think it's worthwhile to have a discussion regarding where computing in general, and linux in particular, are going. Being a fairly HOF myself, but not tied too tightly to the Ancient Computing World, I see the development of GUI's as a brilliantly positive step forward that can make the full power of computing available to anyone who has the moxie to work with it at all, and I refuse to accept the declaration that only the command line can give you real power. Indeed. And my argument wasn't that the GUI was wrong but that the idea that Linux can only succeed by its tools and GUI aping Windows as closely as possible is the only path to follow.
Nobody made any such argument other than you. Who are performing a classic bait-and-switch: proposing someone made an argument and then shooting at the argument. This is dishonest; at best you are misunderstanding the issues, at worst you are trolling.
Back in the early 80s when Windows came out it had to differentiate itself not only from the Apple interlace but also from competing GUI on the Intel PC platform, some of which were faster and had more applications bundled. They did this though marketing, not technology.
I thought they did it my making it possible to develop applications on their platforms. I was around then, there was much more to the issue than marketing [although marketing was certainly important]. UNIX was around then too.... I used it then, but it was *crazy* expensive and way beyond the reach of most users and companies.
I particularly remember one of their marketing claims that the GUI would simplify use because, being icon/menu driven you wouldn't need to learn lots of command line options. They phrased this in such a way that the transition from WordPerfect to Microsoft Word would be a non-issue and wouldn't require re-training since all the functions were there in the GUI. (Isn't there a version of VI like that? :-) )
And many users did transition without any significant issues; I don't know if it had anything to do with the "GUI" or simply that the basic structure of spreadsheets and word processors were pretty familiar by then.
Now when you read reviews of things like OpenOffice it tends to be, for
Most reviews are worthless page fill.
the most part, a technical comparison, since the GUI looks pretty much
I would never call most of the reviews I see as "technical comparisons". Most are little more than authors-gut-feeling or a collection about niggles regarding the authors favorite / least-favorite features.
the same. Even reviewers who are Windows users think its a fair competitor. But when you read reviews of GIMP done by people from the Windows world they concentrate entirely on the GUI and slag the Gimp 'cos it has a different interface.
Because the interface of an application does matter. a lot. Because the point of the application is to do-work, and if a user can't sit down and do-work the value of the application is diminished. Time spent learning a radically different application is time spent not in do-work mode. -- OpenGroupware developer: awilliam@whitemice.org http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/ OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @ http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Adam Tauno Williams said the following on 12/01/2009 09:09 AM:
[...] UNIX was around then too.... I used it then, but it was *crazy* expensive and way beyond the reach of most users and companies.
Students, perhaps, companies, I disagree Back in '78/79 I installed a one of the early UNIX-on-a-16bit-micro for an 8-man company in North Wales to control an automated test facility. It cost less than a small car or reasonable motorcycle. Through the early 80s I made a good living installing UNIX for small companies or departments, the largest being about 40 people. Although SCO may be a hated name now, they, Convergent a few others had quite reasonable UNIX offerings. SCO on a 386/486 plus Progress plus a few Wyse-60 terminals was a very good alternative to XBASE plus one of the awful PC file servers of those days. Around '85 IBM brought out the AIX and addressed that at small companies and that grew from the initial "desktop" unit to a more complete range, but initially was a great "departmental" machine. No, UNIX was not crazy expensive and it was most certainly *NOT* beyond the reach of most companies. -- "Key escrow to rule them all; key escrow to find them. Key escrow to bring them all and in the darkness bind them. In the land of surveillance where Big Brother lies." -- Peter Gutmann -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Adam Tauno Williams said the following on 12/01/2009 09:09 AM:
Now when you read reviews of things like OpenOffice it tends to be, for
Most reviews are worthless page fill.
On the whole, I find it hard to argue with that :-)
the most part, a technical comparison, since the GUI looks pretty much
I would never call most of the reviews I see as "technical comparisons". Most are little more than authors-gut-feeling or a collection about niggles regarding the authors favorite / least-favorite features.
While true or the most part, there are many that list the features and all to many that compare them to how its done in Windows.
the same. Even reviewers who are Windows users think its a fair competitor. But when you read reviews of GIMP done by people from the Windows world they concentrate entirely on the GUI and slag the Gimp 'cos it has a different interface.
Because the interface of an application does matter. a lot.
In absolute terms, yes. Cars for the disabled don't have pedals for a very good reason. I've seen some antique cars that had too many levers and pedals and were confusing.
Because the point of the application is to do-work, and if a user can't sit down and do-work the value of the application is diminished. Time spent learning a radically different application is time spent not in do-work mode.
Which was the point of the GUI. Early advertising for Microsoft Windows made the point that tools like WordPerfect and other "text mode" (though full screen) were obscure, depending on magical key combinations that were radically different. The Microsoft advertising made the point that the GUI had icons whose meaning was self-apparent (their words, not mine!), so making it easy of learn a new application. Yes, in the real world we've gone back to the magic keystrokes so we don't have to take hands off the keyboard. But from the POV of a GUI that point still holds. The screen layout of OpenOffice Writer and its basic set of icons is pretty much the same as MS-Word of Office97 vintage. There's a good case that moving to later versions of MS-Office requires more re-learning than moving from Office97 or Office2000 to the current version than it would to move to OpenOffice. Yes, GIMP is radically different from MS-Word. It brings in a whole slew of new concepts, like "layers"; like "brushes"; like "palettes". If anything, Inkscape is more like the art tools in MS-Word, dealing with objects: text is always text, and so forth. But there are probably more differences in the interfaces of vehicles, even road vehicles, not to include aeroplanes, than between GIMP and Photoshop. I've driven cars and truck, auto and quite a number of variations of manual transmission. Shift on the column on the floor. Drive on each side of the road. Clutch and brake, like on Subarau, non-synchromesh gear boxes that need double-de-clutching, trucks with multiple gear levers. I've worked tractors, combine harvesters and heavy equipment with cabins full of levers. This doesn't make me a genius. There are plenty of guys that do this without degree or even graduating high school. In each case the tools and the context go together. I grant that you get used to working with one machine. Your reflexes know here the levers and buttons are. But that this makes you incapable of operating a similar machine? I don't think so. But try reading Asimov's "Profession" http://www.abelard.org/asimov.php and see what you think. -- We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question which divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct. My own feeling is that it is not crazy enough. -- Niels Bohr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2009-12-01 at 11:22 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
Adam Tauno Williams said the following on 12/01/2009 09:09 AM:
Now when you read reviews of things like OpenOffice it tends to be, for Most reviews are worthless page fill. On the whole, I find it hard to argue with that :-) the most part, a technical comparison, since the GUI looks pretty much I would never call most of the reviews I see as "technical comparisons". Most are little more than authors-gut-feeling or a collection about niggles regarding the authors favorite / least-favorite features. While true or the most part, there are many that list the features and all to many that compare them to how its done in Windows.
Perhaps, there are also many that are woe fully unqualified to write the articles they do. I'm frustrated by most OOo articles as someone who maintains 200+ page multi-part formal [toc + indexing + footnotes] documents in OOo. I feel pretty strongly that most of them are talking out their butt and have only the scantest familiarity with the product [one shouldn't be allowed to 'review' a product unless one actually *uses* it].
the same. Even reviewers who are Windows users think its a fair competitor. But when you read reviews of GIMP done by people from the Windows world they concentrate entirely on the GUI and slag the Gimp 'cos it has a different interface. Because the interface of an application does matter. a lot. In absolute terms, yes. Cars for the disabled don't have pedals for a very good reason. I've seen some antique cars that had too many levers and pedals and were confusing.
Yes. I own a 1919 Model-T Ford Depot Hack. And I have the steel plates screwed to my bones to prove it. User interface matters a lot! That was especially true when, before the distributor, you controlled both the fuel and the timing manually - it was trivially easy to seriously injure oneself [I landed about ~13 feet away from the car].
Because the point of the application is to do-work, and if a user can't sit down and do-work the value of the application is diminished. Time spent learning a radically different application is time spent not in do-work mode. Which was the point of the GUI. Early advertising for Microsoft Windows made the point that tools like WordPerfect and other "text mode" (though full screen) were obscure, depending on magical key combinations that were radically different.
All of which was true.
The Microsoft advertising made the point that the GUI had icons whose meaning was self-apparent (their words, not mine!), so making it easy of learn a new application.
I think just having clear menus helped more than icons, as well as dialogs and the ability to highlight with a mouse gesture. Icons get too much attention, they aren't what make a UI work.
Yes, in the real world we've gone back to the magic keystrokes so we don't have to take hands off the keyboard.
Power users have, or never left them. Most end-users I know don't even know the keystrokes for Cut / Paste.
But from the POV of a GUI that point still holds. The screen layout of OpenOffice Writer and its basic set of icons is pretty much the same as MS-Word of Office97 vintage.
And Office 97 looks a great deal like GeoWorks and Word Star did. Also I think you are underestimating Open Office which as Star Office dates back to the dates of CP/M on the Zilog Z80. Something recognizable existing on both MS-DOS, Windows, and OS/2. So, again, the "aping" charge is invalid.
There's a good case that moving to later versions of MS-Office requires more re-learning than moving from Office97 or Office2000 to the current version than it would to move to OpenOffice.
Sure, but I doubt that is the deal breaker. External product integration and file-format support is what I believe impedes Open Office most significantly.
Yes, GIMP is radically different from MS-Word. It brings in a whole slew of new concepts, like "layers"; like "brushes"; like "palettes". If anything, Inkscape is more like the art tools in MS-Word, dealing with objects: text is always text, and so forth.
GIMP's ontology is not different than that of Photoshop or other products - but until recent versions the UI was a radical departure with many floating windows. In that case "aping" was a good design decision. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/28/2009 02:59 PM, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
On 11/28/2009 08:50 AM, Anton Aylward pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Erik Jakobsen said the following on 11/28/2009 07:12 AM:
Hi.
I run opensuse 11.2.
The mailer is Thunderbird 3.0b4 and Firefox is 3.5.5
I cannot open links when I try in Thunderbird.
How can I solve this ?.
Since these are both "gnome" apps you will need to install gnome-control-center and make the appropriate mods there.
The network.protocol-handler configs are for older versions of Thunderbird.
Many thanks Ken. /Erik -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/28/2009 08:44 PM, Erik Jakobsen wrote:
On 11/28/2009 02:59 PM, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
On 11/28/2009 08:50 AM, Anton Aylward pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Erik Jakobsen said the following on 11/28/2009 07:12 AM:
Hi.
I run opensuse 11.2.
The mailer is Thunderbird 3.0b4 and Firefox is 3.5.5
I cannot open links when I try in Thunderbird.
How can I solve this ?.
Since these are both "gnome" apps you will need to install gnome-control-center and make the appropriate mods there.
The network.protocol-handler configs are for older versions of Thunderbird.
Many thanks Ken.
/Erik
I just added under ~/.gconf/desktop/gnome/url-handlers the directory 'http', copied the %gconf.xml from the mail directory and changed it like: <?xml version="1.0"?> <gconf> <entry name="needs_terminal" mtime="1258856544" type="bool" value="false"/> <entry name="enabled" mtime="1258856544" type="bool" value="true"/> <entry name="command" mtime="1258856544" type="string"> <stringvalue>/usr/bin/firefox "%s"</stringvalue> </entry> </gconf> And it works. Leaving all kind of gnome issues behind (only needed the gconf stuff). Above is the same for https and ftp. Simple, no fuss and above all: it works!! Frans. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (13)
-
Adam Tauno Williams -
Anton Aylward -
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. -
Clayton -
Erik Jakobsen -
Frans de Boer -
G T Smith -
John Andersen -
John E. Perry -
Ken Schneider - openSUSE -
Michael Carr -
Peter Nikolic -
Wolfgang Rosenauer