...

I guess what I am attempting to express is that I hope the Open Source community model doesn't fizzle out some day due to lack of funds.

~James I agree with you. Well said Rich -- Rich Matson Reno, Nv. USA

i agree too, but track with me on how i see the fund-world vs. the free-world complimenting each other. 0. i got suse 9.0 for free. 1. i liked it so much i stopped using redhat/fedora and bought full copies of both suse 9.1 pro and suse 9.1 personal, one of only two distros i've used that were so impresive that i felt they easily deserved they money that was asked for them. 2. then i bought suse 9.2 update 3. and now i bought suse 9.3 update 4. directly from my input and influence, the gov't organization i work for has already implemented several suse linux servers and is now considering purchasing thousands of OES licenses and the associated support contracts because younger admins like me who are impressed by and familiar with suse are pushing for change from the inside... and it all started with me getting a free copy of suse 9.0. i've personally answered thousands of questions on various forums from people with problems, to show them how linux can meet their needs. THIS is the spirit of the oss community model, THIS is why it works, and THIS is why the oss community model is not going to ever fizzle away no matter how much money you throw at it or take away from it. move over bacon, OSS is here to stay! [insert your own rousing national anthem here, because oss is for all the world, not just those who can afford to pay for it.] there's no reason to fear or badmouth the free side of the oss community, we compliment each other. stephen

On Thu, Apr 14, 2005 at 02:16:07PM -0500, mb1-knetdome wrote:

...

...

I guess what I am attempting to express is that I hope the Open Source community model doesn't fizzle out some day due to lack of funds.

~James I agree with you. Well said Rich -- Rich Matson Reno, Nv. USA

i agree too, but track with me on how i see the fund-world vs. the free-world complimenting each other.

0. i got suse 9.0 for free.

1. i liked it so much i stopped using redhat/fedora and bought full copies of both suse 9.1 pro and suse 9.1 personal, one of only two distros i've used that were so impresive that i felt they easily deserved they money that was asked for them.

2. then i bought suse 9.2 update

3. and now i bought suse 9.3 update

4. directly from my input and influence, the gov't organization i work for has already implemented several suse linux servers and is now considering purchasing thousands of OES licenses and the associated support contracts because younger admins like me who are impressed by and familiar with suse are pushing for change from the inside... and it all started with me getting a free copy of suse 9.0.

Big deal, I've bought mutliple copies of SUSE, I make people around me buy it because I refuse to even copy it for them, and I won't even install it for them if they ask. I make them buy it, I wrote articles with SUSE, like product reviews for AntiOnline, Irecommend it to everyone, a friend of mine who's hiring me for a Govt job as a "Network Security professional" I made him take RedHat off, and now they even have it running on a big ol main frame. They are currently installing it on a few servers to give it a try, and they arebuying more because they were impressed as hell. And now, in my Network Analysis and Design class, EVERY LAPTOP IN THERE EXCEPT TWO ARE NOW RUNNING SUSE. All bought and paid for. And the Servers are maybe going to switch as well. I even got Teachers there who went out and nought it on my recommendations and use it now too. And if you ever visit AntiOnline, you'll know I more than make sales for them. And now that Novell owns it I push even harder so that they know SUSE is a well loved OS. I've gotten quite a few RedHat users to switch. Hell, usually the only thing I have to say is "You don't have to sign up for an account like with RHN" and they buy it. I've gotten people to pay for SUSE more than 100 times just on my word. I wrote tutorials, and I've written security tutorials for locking it down for specific server use.

i've personally answered thousands of questions on various forums from people with problems, to show them how linux can meet their needs. THIS is the spirit of the oss community model, THIS is why it works, and THIS is why the oss community model is not going to ever fizzle away no matter how much money you throw at it or take away from it. move over bacon, OSS is here to stay! [insert your own rousing national anthem here, because oss is for all the world, not just those who can afford to pay for it.]

there's no reason to fear or badmouth the free side of the oss community, we compliment each other.

What do you do for a living? Would you work hard on something and then when people started buying it, would you, who rely on this to eat, enjoy it if people downloaded it for free, and gave a lame excuse like "Well it's Open Source". Open Source, read the definition. Open Source does NOT mean no price, it means you have source code and a list of 9 rights.

stephen

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On 4/15/05, Sid Boyce wrote:

Allen wrote: <STUFF DELETED>

...

Big deal, I've bought mutliple copies of SUSE, I make people around me buy it because I refuse to even copy it for them, and I won't even install it for them if they ask. I make them buy it, I wrote articles with SUSE, like product reviews for AntiOnline, Irecommend it to everyone, a friend of mine who's hiring me for a Govt job as a "Network Security professional" I made him take RedHat off, and now they even have it running on a big ol main frame.

Hey!, less of the big and the ol. These days the mainframe is difficult to spot in any large installation, they are energy efficient, run like "shit off a shovel" and as remarked by one of my customers, the workhorse in any shop. I could install 7 mainframes up and running in the time it takes to install any large SPARC box of the same size, like the Sun E15K or Fujitsu Primepower 2500. The SPARC boxes are good money earners compared, the mainframe is too darn easy and blows away whatever comes second.

...

They are currently installing it on a few servers to give it a try, and they arebuying more because they were impressed as hell.

And now, in my Network Analysis and Design class, EVERY LAPTOP IN THERE EXCEPT TWO ARE NOW RUNNING SUSE. All bought and paid for. And the Servers are maybe going to switch as well.

I even got Teachers there who went out and nought it on my recommendations and use it now too.

And if you ever visit AntiOnline, you'll know I more than make sales for them. And now that Novell owns it I push even harder so that they know SUSE is a well loved OS.

I've gotten quite a few RedHat users to switch. Hell, usually the only thing I have to say is "You don't have to sign up for an account like with RHN" and they buy it.

I've gotten people to pay for SUSE more than 100 times just on my word. I wrote tutorials, and I've written security tutorials for locking it down for specific server use.

Good work, but I've also found that I've had to use my CD's to install the first one, then people usually bought the next versions. I was also surprised by the number of colleagues who had installed SuSE dual boot on their work laptops and PC's at home, but didn't use it, in these cases, I gave them a tour of SuSE on my laptop to show them that they could use Linux and forget Windows. One of our salesmen even introduced me as a Linux bigot to a customer I knew well and who wanted to install linux on their mainframe, just seeking advice. One colleague installed SuSE himself, then asked me a few questions to sort out small problems and wrote up a word doc using OpenOffice which he distributed to all our UK employees to show them they didn't need Windows. Five years down the road, the landscape will look much prettier for Linux, it'll sell itself and spread everywhere, gone will be the strange looks and comments when Linux is mentioned. It used to be a much tougher sell just a few years ago, even very tough six years ago, eight years ago, you were battered by colleagues for using Linux to do stuff for work, you just had to have a hard shell, knowing that many would come around in their own good time.

Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Keen licensed Private Pilot Retired IBM Mainframes and Sun Servers Tech Support Specialist Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux for all Computing Tasks

I think Sid has the right idea here. I have to say that this thread seems to have reinforced something that am American friend of mine told me over the weekend. He's an M$ user but because of my constant praise of open source and SuSE Linux he is now seriously thinking of trying Linux. However, he has come up against the same heavy handed types who I ran up against a few years ago. Linux users who seem to be holier than though. He's come up against some real arrogant types. For goodness sake this is not what we want to portray. Just some thoughts and observations... -- Take care. Kevan Farmer 34 Hill Street Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR

On 4/18/05, Sid Boyce wrote:

Kevanf1 wrote:

...

On 4/15/05, Sid Boyce wrote:

...

Allen wrote: <STUFF DELETED>

...

Big deal, I've bought mutliple copies of SUSE, I make people around me buy it because I refuse to even copy it for them, and I won't even install it for them if they ask. I make them buy it, I wrote articles with SUSE, like product reviews for AntiOnline, Irecommend it to everyone, a friend of mine who's hiring me for a Govt job as a "Network Security professional" I made him take RedHat off, and now they even have it running on a big ol main frame.

Hey!, less of the big and the ol. These days the mainframe is difficult to spot in any large installation, they are energy efficient, run like "shit off a shovel" and as remarked by one of my customers, the workhorse in any shop. I could install 7 mainframes up and running in the time it takes to install any large SPARC box of the same size, like the Sun E15K or Fujitsu Primepower 2500. The SPARC boxes are good money earners compared, the mainframe is too darn easy and blows away whatever comes second.

...

They are currently installing it on a few servers to give it a try, and they arebuying more because they were impressed as hell.

And now, in my Network Analysis and Design class, EVERY LAPTOP IN THERE EXCEPT TWO ARE NOW RUNNING SUSE. All bought and paid for. And the Servers are maybe going to switch as well.

I even got Teachers there who went out and nought it on my recommendations and use it now too.

And if you ever visit AntiOnline, you'll know I more than make sales for them. And now that Novell owns it I push even harder so that they know SUSE is a well loved OS.

I've gotten quite a few RedHat users to switch. Hell, usually the only thing I have to say is "You don't have to sign up for an account like with RHN" and they buy it.

I've gotten people to pay for SUSE more than 100 times just on my word. I wrote tutorials, and I've written security tutorials for locking it down for specific server use.

Good work, but I've also found that I've had to use my CD's to install the first one, then people usually bought the next versions. I was also surprised by the number of colleagues who had installed SuSE dual boot on their work laptops and PC's at home, but didn't use it, in these cases, I gave them a tour of SuSE on my laptop to show them that they could use Linux and forget Windows. One of our salesmen even introduced me as a Linux bigot to a customer I knew well and who wanted to install linux on their mainframe, just seeking advice. One colleague installed SuSE himself, then asked me a few questions to sort out small problems and wrote up a word doc using OpenOffice which he distributed to all our UK employees to show them they didn't need Windows. Five years down the road, the landscape will look much prettier for Linux, it'll sell itself and spread everywhere, gone will be the strange looks and comments when Linux is mentioned. It used to be a much tougher sell just a few years ago, even very tough six years ago, eight years ago, you were battered by colleagues for using Linux to do stuff for work, you just had to have a hard shell, knowing that many would come around in their own good time.

Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Keen licensed Private Pilot Retired IBM Mainframes and Sun Servers Tech Support Specialist Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux for all Computing Tasks

I think Sid has the right idea here. I have to say that this thread seems to have reinforced something that am American friend of mine told me over the weekend. He's an M$ user but because of my constant praise of open source and SuSE Linux he is now seriously thinking of trying Linux. However, he has come up against the same heavy handed types who I ran up against a few years ago. Linux users who seem to be holier than though. He's come up against some real arrogant types. For goodness sake this is not what we want to portray.

Just some thoughts and observations...

I've always practised what I preach, that is to be as helpful to newbies as you can, we all started out with a sum of zero Linux/Unix knowledge and built up from there. The strongest advice I give is that Linux is not Windows or a Windows clone, it's totally different, so you approach it saying "I know diddly squat about this stuff" and you will be on the right track, there is always lots of good help to be had, so don't let anyone put you off. We had a healthy linux TCP/IP over hamradio group in the UK many years ago and we drew serious flack, the group included people like Alan Cox, but the main concentration seemed to be us, not too many miles down the M6 motorway from you, Birmingham, Sutton Coldfield, Solihull and Sutton Coldfield and we had a number of guys elsewhere in the UK using Windows/OS2 who got seriously bent out of shape at the very mention of Linux though they'd never even seen it working, we got called all sorts of names, "Boy's Own Unix" and worse, but we held our own and gave as good as we got .... you've seen flames from Pete, G6NJR on here, the ones then were white heat itself. Our main flamer stopped when he realised he was the main recruiting seargeant for Linux on the hamradio newsgroup, he was doing a great job spreading Linux for us, one guy told that since he was so set against Linux, he just had to try it for himself. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Keen licensed Private Pilot Retired IBM Mainframes and Sun Servers Tech Support Specialist Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux for all Computing Tasks

Which is pretty much how I try to be also. Prior to me having to retire due to severe arthritis I worked at W'ton Uni. I was the Senior Technician in one of the Learning Centres looking after IT. It was an all Windows environment. Part of my job however was helping computer users. One day perhaps I will be up the same level as I was with M$ software... :-) But, to get back on track. I have also come across the same arrogance and holier than though attitude in Windows users. In fact my ex boss was vehemently anti Linux. I still set the old Corel distro up on a staff PC though :-))) he couldn't really say much as I was the one who did most of the work. But that was purely because I knew my way around the system. Whenever I see or contact him now I still rub it in about how much I love using Linux. Yes, I do use Windows (2000 and XP) and I firmly believe that M$ has its place in todays PC climate. It's easy to put on a computer and for the majority of PC users that's all they are interested in. I know that more people should be aware and act upon the security issues endemic in the M$ world but they just aren't. They are normal human beings with advice going in one ear and out of the other. All I can do is espouse the advantages of Linux in its many forms and hope they ask for a demo. -- Take care. Kevan Farmer 34 Hill Street Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR