On Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 07:31:30PM +0200, Lars Forseth wrote:

I'm also a member of a group discussing arcview (a GIS application from ESRI (www.esri.com)(arcview-l)). On this group one can ask for help on using arcview. If anyone can answer this request they send this to the person putting forth the question on his/her private e-mail adress. Then this person will SUM the answers for the group and post the sumary.

That method has a problem. If a new Linux user were to post a question here, and we were to reply by private email, then there would be no way for the original poster to know if he was getting the right information. On the other hand, by replying to the list, we can be certain that all messages will be reviewed by other list readers, and thus corrections made if needed. - v -- Victor R. Cardona vcardona@home.com "Behold the keyboard of Kahless, the greatest Klingon code warrior that ever lived!"

Has SuSE ever considered setting up a USENET server for newsgroups of It has been suggested before. I suggested it more than a year ago, I think, but it seems that some are rather vocal about their

Lewie Wolfgang wrote: preference of this mailing list. Some have presented arguements for why this e-mail method is better but it seems to me that the pros and cons can be found in either medium. I really wish that SuSE would convert this to a usenet group because it seems to me that it would make handling of these messages much easier.

disseminate information to a group of interactive users than USENET. I agree 100%

I can think of two organizations that use this method; VmWare and Granitecanyon. Point your news reader at news.vmware.com and/or Borland also uses this.

We can dream but I am afraid that e-mail fans would prevent conversion to usenet. Damon Register

* Ole Kofoed Hansen [Apr 02. 2001 11:33]:

On Mon, 2 Apr 2001, Damon Register wrote:

...

We can dream but I am afraid that e-mail fans would prevent conversion to usenet.

Why is it that people always talk about converting? Why not set up a mail to news gateway, so that the list(s) can be read on suse.com through NNTP?

I know this can be done, because SSLUG http://www.sslug.dk uses this approach. To diminish spam only subscribers to the ANNOUNCE list can post, but everyone can read. It is still possible to subscribe to the individual lists for those who prefer mail over news.

It shouldn't even be too difficult to implement for SuSE, because SSLUG also uses qmail and ezmlm.

It is not a matter of whether it is difficult, it is a matter of "do we want and have the manpower to put in the effort to setup and maintain a news server when we have mailinglists already?" At the moment it is not a priority, but maybe things will change in the future, who knows. Regards, Mads Martin Jørgensen, ml-admin at lists.suse.com -- Mads Martin Joergensen, http://mmj.dk "Why make things difficult, when it is possible to make them cryptic and totally illogic, with just a little bit more effort." -- A. P. J.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Þann mánudagur 02 apríl 2001 19:10 skrifaðir þú:

On Mon, 2 Apr 2001, Mads Martin Jørgensen wrote:

...

* Ole Kofoed Hansen [Apr 02. 2001 11:33]:

...

It shouldn't even be too difficult to implement for SuSE, because SSLUG also uses qmail and ezmlm.

It is not a matter of whether it is difficult, it is a matter of "do we want and have the manpower to put in the effort to setup and maintain a news server when we have mailinglists already?"

At the moment it is not a priority, but maybe things will change in the future, who knows.

Ok, but you could ask the administrators at SSLUG how they are doing it and how much work is involved. The people who control the news server and mailing lists can be contacted at admin@sslug.dk

Regards

Ole

Why change how the list is handled ? Why not change how it's used ? Anyone here been on the hpux-adm list ? There, people only post questions and summaries to the questions. Discussions aren't that weel taken, and smalltalk on the list is flamed back to boogietown... Ethics are strict, without cramping it's users style. Works great :) That way, if user X posts a question, users Y, Z, A and B post their replies directly to user X, and no CC's to the list. User X then compiles a summary to the solution of his/her problem, and posts it to the list. This way, there would be build through time a big archive of problems and their solutions, easily searchable, and with that, user of the list would be obliged to search the archive before posting a question. Having said that, there could be created another list, called suse-linux-discussion-e or something, for those of 'us' that really need to have an opinion :-) - -tosi -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE6yPls6mRH+PEpr2YRAoJvAJ9oUnCL3V0plrqLb8sne+Kvw67ECgCeOUeE bEpEyGP+CdWXlblPN76+LcQ= =LjIo -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Sender: markh@compro.net Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 07:27:53 -0400 From: Mark Hounschell Tor Sigurdsson wrote;

This way, there would be build through time a big archive of problems and their solutions, easily searchable, and with that, user of the list would be obliged to search the archive before posting a question.

The archives are already there and growing??? Mark I've read only a few of the comments under this topic ... there are soooo many! But, if one doesn't like getting deluged with email, simply dial up http://apollo.iwt.uni-bielefeld.de/~ml_robot/SuSE-14-2001/index.html or another mirror of the archive, once in a while. It runs only about 6-8 hours behind the email. jim

Mark Hounschell wrote:

Tor Sigurdsson wrote;

...

Why change how the list is handled ? Why not change how it's used ? Anyone here been on the hpux-adm list ? There, people only post questions and summaries to the questions. Discussions aren't that weel taken, and smalltalk on the list is flamed back to boogietown... Ethics are strict, without cramping it's users style. Works great :)

Isn't this just a discussion??

Exactly what I thought... Like being at a technical cocktail party full of people each having their own discussion... ;-) I always say "those who dont like heat should not pull up a chair in the kitchen" Ive been on this list (subscribed) for about 2.5 years, just getting active again. This topic come up often, and iirc SuSE folks like it just the way it is (hence no change) The suggestion to moderate users posts thru flames is definetly not accepted here. Nor is limiting ones diccussions(free speach) I like it that way too have fun!! rob

On Monday 02 April 2001 13:02, Damon Register wrote:

Lewie Wolfgang wrote:

...

Has SuSE ever considered setting up a USENET server for newsgroups of

It has been suggested before. I suggested it more than a year ago, I think, but it seems that some are rather vocal about their preference of this mailing list. Some have presented arguements for why this e-mail method is better but it seems to me that the pros and cons can be found in either medium.

I really wish that SuSE would convert this to a usenet group because it seems to me that it would make handling of these messages much easier.

...

disseminate information to a group of interactive users than USENET.

I agree 100%

...

I can think of two organizations that use this method; VmWare and Granitecanyon. Point your news reader at news.vmware.com and/or

Borland also uses this.

We can dream but I am afraid that e-mail fans would prevent conversion to usenet.

Damon Register

I agree 100% too! It would be just as easy to require a login to the usernet based on a verified email address. Some pgming tools I use are usenet based and it works very well. Another, UniversalThread, is a controlled access webpage which works very well. Subscription is $70/year. Drifters NEVER gain access and pseudonames are NEVER allowed. Very good site. JLK

* bilbo [Apr 02. 2001 17:04]:

While we're on the subject can anyone recommend a MUA for X? I'm still trying to move from winxxxx to SuSE and I don't know which email client to use. I use pegasus on win, which supports multiple accounts and extensive filtering, but I'm looking for an even more flexible solution.

You should try KMail. -- Mads Martin Joergensen, http://mmj.dk "Why make things difficult, when it is possible to make them cryptic and totally illogic, with just a little bit more effort." -- A. P. J.

On April 2, 2001 02:02 pm, Damon Register wrote:

Lewie Wolfgang wrote:

...

Has SuSE ever considered setting up a USENET server for newsgroups of

I really wish that SuSE would convert this to a usenet group because it seems to me that it would make handling of these messages much easier.

Suse ships with leafnode [or at least it did] and you can get software to stuff email into news spools. Setting up leafnode is relatively trival. http://www.leafnode.org/ At the leafnode site is a link to a script to handle stuffing email into newspools. http://jpsn.free.fr/usenet/m2n.html So if you're willing to do a little work then getting the maillist onto a nntp server is possible. You may already be running leafnode then all you need is the second piece of the puzzle. Personally I don't understand the problem with the maillist but you can change it if you feel the need. Nick

At 03:48 PM 4/3/2001 -0400, you wrote:

But here's a plea to posters: *please* use informative titles for your posts, not just "Bad trouble with 7.1" or something like that.

Agreed!...

Ideally, the title should make it clear to the reader whether it's at all relevant to the reader's interests and knowledge. The more specific, the better.

I personally think that using tags (such as the often-used [OT] one for off-topic posts, as well as [WAS] and [SOLVED]) helps a lot, especially if you're consistent with your tagging methodology. Perhaps others don't like it...I think it works great though, because it allows you to set up your filters in a more organised way. Perhaps we should vote on standard tags? After all this is open source isn't it? :-) [OT] off topic [SOLVED] means those who are looking for people to help don't need to continue reading that thread [WAS] topic switch. Not sure of it's value for this situation. Perhaps we should start using categories like: [SOUND] sound related problems [YAST] trouble with YaST [INSTALL] trouble installing [SCRIPT] shell scripts [CRON] cron.. [KDE] KDE related problems [APACHE] help needed with apache. and so on... [POSTFIX] [SENDMAIL] [PROFTPD] If we did this, it would allow, for instance, desktop users to filter out anything like [APACHE] and other server-related stuff, and would allow the Sys Admins to filter out [KDE] [GNOME] and similar "desktop" related things. It would also allow us to filter out anything that /doesn't/ have a tag, which would be new users and careless people. now /that/ would cut down some traffic ;-) and would also help get people to actually do it, since they'd be much less likely to get an answer if they didn't tag their subject (in theory, at least). What do y'all think? I vote for it. Basically just put a tag with as major a category as possible (while still retaining some specific value) and spell it right :-) Or we could go for something like [SERVER] [NEWUSER] [CRASH] ... I don't know. Don't like that as well. I do like the idea of have dual-access via newsgroup OR email to the same list. say, do we have a list-faq like most newsgroups do? Let the flames begin... ;-) ...should we keep a tally of yeses and nos, like the way the Debian project votes for things? "Peace, Love and Linux" :-) ---------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Wilson System Administrator Cedar Creek Software http://www.cedarcreeksoftware.com Central Texas IT http://www.centraltexasit.com

On 3 Apr 2001, at 15:51, Jonathan Wilson wrote: ....

I personally think that using tags (such as the often-used [OT] one for off-topic posts, as well as [WAS] and [SOLVED]) helps a lot, especially if you're consistent with your tagging methodology. Perhaps others don't like it...I think it works great though, because it allows you to set up your filters in a more organised way.

Perhaps we should vote on standard tags? After all this is open source isn't it? :-)

[OT] off topic

[SOLVED] means those who are looking for people to help don't need to continue reading that thread

[WAS] topic switch. Not sure of it's value for this situation.

Perhaps we should start using categories like:

[SOUND] sound related problems [YAST] trouble with YaST [INSTALL] trouble installing [SCRIPT] shell scripts [CRON] cron.. [KDE] KDE related problems [APACHE] help needed with apache. and so on... [POSTFIX] [SENDMAIL] [PROFTPD] ......

The trouble is you can end up with long cryptic subjects (see this one which I left untrimmed on purpose). This being the case I'd suggest keeping the tags as short as is consistent with clarity - [SENDMAIL] is 10 characters. I'm not too sure about wrapping in [] as that's 2 chars! How about SND-sound YST-YaST INST-installation SCPT-scripting APCH-Apache PFIX-postfix SML-sendmail GNM-gnome Sort of like the ticker tags they use on nasdaq. I'd also be pleased to see less multiplication of "Re:" and [SLE] in the subject. We should be trimming the subject, please :-) regards, Bill