Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:

On 02/22/2012 02:55 PM, C wrote:

...

http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplayer/2012/02/adobe-and-google-partnering-for-f...

...

Basically... quoting....

"For Flash Player releases after 11.2, the Flash Player browser plugin for Linux will only be available via the “Pepper” API as part of the Google Chrome browser distribution and will no longer be available as a direct download from Adobe."

So... unless you use Google Chrome on Linux... no Adobe Flash for you. (there's always Gnash, but is it up to the task?)

Do we need Flash? I think this one is basically for streaming services like Netflix who will not be using HTML5 unless there is some DRM crap.

Yes we need Flash. There are gazillions of websites using flash for all kinds of things. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.4°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2012/02/22 15:11 (GMT+0100) Swapnil Bhartiya composed:

Got it. It appears Adobe was planning to kill Flash for Linux, just the way they killed it for AIR and Google jumped it to keep Flash alive on Linux, even if via Chrome.

For those who have no appreciation for the minimalist Chrome UI, one option might become running Chrome in a Firefox tab the way IE can run in a Firefox tab on Windows. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 02/22/2012 08:01 AM, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:

On 02/22/2012 02:55 PM, C wrote:

...

http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplayer/2012/02/adobe-and-google-partnering-for-f...

Basically... quoting....

"For Flash Player releases after 11.2, the Flash Player browser plugin for Linux will only be available via the “Pepper” API as part of the Google Chrome browser distribution and will no longer be available as a direct download from Adobe."

So... unless you use Google Chrome on Linux... no Adobe Flash for you. (there's always Gnash, but is it up to the task?)

Do we need Flash? I think this one is basically for streaming services like Netflix who will not be using HTML5 unless there is some DRM crap.

Swapnil

...

C.

There are some websites that use flash as an integral part of the design. Without flash you basically get a blank screen. No data. -- “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government lest it come to dominate our lives and interests”. - Patrick Henry - _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Billie Walsh wrote:

There are some websites that use flash as an integral part of the design. Without flash you basically get a blank screen. No data.

Well, they're not really websites. Websites use HTML. They're just flash sites that happen to use the same network. But whatever, just don't use them. If possible, let them know why they lost your business. I don't have flash installed at work. And at home I run with it disabled, except when there's a particular video I want to see. Most sites have non-flash alternatives anyway. You just need to find the right URL. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 23/02/12 05:16, Billie Walsh wrote:

On 02/22/2012 10:09 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

Billie Walsh wrote:

...

There are some websites that use flash as an integral part of the design. Without flash you basically get a blank screen. No data.

Well, they're not really websites. Websites use HTML. They're just flash sites that happen to use the same network. But whatever, just don't use them. If possible, let them know why they lost your business.

I don't have flash installed at work. And at home I run with it disabled, except when there's a particular video I want to see.

Most sites have non-flash alternatives anyway. You just need to find the right URL.

If your into genealogy the Family Search site won't work without flash. Even with flash installed [ Firefox ] it is problematical.

Interesting...I have no problems in viewing the pages using FF.

I have to use Windows/firefox to access it. It is not a "video" site. It does use flash to show the page content.

I can generally see videos and other things. I think it has something to do with how their site uses flash.

BC -- The more sand has escaped from the hourglass of our life, the clearer we should see through it. Niccolo Machiavelli -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 02/23/2012 04:15 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:

Billie Walsh wrote:

...

If your into genealogy the Family Search site won't work without flash. Even with flash installed [ Firefox ] it is problematical. I have to use Windows/firefox to access it. It is not a "video" site. It does use flash to show the page content.

Well you don't provide a URL, so I'm not sure I'm looking at the same thing. But it appears to work for me using FF with no Flash. Please provide a URL and specific symptoms on that page if you want to discuss any further.

https://www.familysearch.org/ -- “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government lest it come to dominate our lives and interests”. - Patrick Henry - _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 02/23/2012 06:13 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:

Billie Walsh wrote:

...

On 02/23/2012 04:15 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

Billie Walsh wrote:

...

If your into genealogy the Family Search site won't work without flash. Even with flash installed [ Firefox ] it is problematical. I have to use Windows/firefox to access it. It is not a "video" site. It does use flash to show the page content.

Well you don't provide a URL, so I'm not sure I'm looking at the same thing. But it appears to work for me using FF with no Flash. Please provide a URL and specific symptoms on that page if you want to discuss any further.

https://www.familysearch.org/

So that's half of what I asked for. What are the symptoms?

All the text is missing from the page. When you do a search the found information is not showing. And, I do not have "allow website to set text", or whatever it's called activated. -- “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government lest it come to dominate our lives and interests”. - Patrick Henry - _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Billie Walsh wrote:

On 02/23/2012 06:13 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

Billie Walsh wrote:

...

https://www.familysearch.org/

So that's half of what I asked for. What are the symptoms?

All the text is missing from the page. When you do a search the found information is not showing.

Well I can see text, and I don't have flash. For that matter, I can see no trace of flash in the page source. So that suggests that your problem has nothing to do with flash. What makes you think that it does? Does anybody else need flash to see this page? When I do a search, it tries to download a JSON file to me. Evidently, it's not properly coded. But I can look at the contents of the JSON, which appear to be results. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 02/23/2012 06:14 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

(You been following the thread where George Olson's Fire Fox would not display text on certain sites? The answer lay in him allowing sites to use their own fonts; and to me this suggested that he did no have all the available fonts installed. As soon as he set FF to have sites use only the fonts he selected for FF his problem disappeared.)

BC

Fonts are set to "serif" at 16pt. I don't even see a setting that allows the web site to set the font. [Did find an interesting new setting to block tracking. - Firefox 10.0.2] I have so many fonts installed it's hard to believe that anyone can find one I don't have. I even have the font for the Cherokee Indian Syllabary. [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_alphabet - I see the actual Cherokee Syllabary on that site, not the weird characters that show when you don't have a font installed. ] When you do as many web sites, and graphics for them, as I do it's nice to have as many fonts to work with as possible. [ Esoteric fonts I do as graphics so they show properly on anyone's computer. - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~itchertp/index.html ] -- “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government lest it come to dominate our lives and interests”. - Patrick Henry - _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 02/23/2012 09:26 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2012/02/23 09:06 (GMT-0600) Billie Walsh composed:

...

Fonts are set to "serif" at 16pt.

In FF 16 is px, not pt. 16px=12pt.

...

I don't even see a setting that allows the web site to set the font.

In FF, click on "Advanced" to find more choices, including the checkbox that defaults to allowing pages to choose fonts.

Well, it looks like face is reddest. Unchecked it and now it works fine. I didn't see where the page calls for a font in the source code but it must be in there somewhere. I wonder what font it calls that I don't have installed already. I always just figured it was a flash problem because it exhibited the exact same symptoms that flash does when it isn't working. It's kind of funny, but in the source there is a LOT of content that doesn't show on the screen. Stuff I've never seen in any browser or OS. And, it's not commented out. Weird. -- “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government lest it come to dominate our lives and interests”. - Patrick Henry - _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2012/02/23 09:58 (GMT-0600) Billie Walsh composed:

...

...

https://www.familysearch.org/

Well, it looks like face is reddest. Unchecked it and now it works fine. I didn't see where the page calls for a font in the source code but it must be in there somewhere. I wonder what font it calls that I don't have installed already.

I always just figured it was a flash problem because it exhibited the exact same symptoms that flash does when it isn't working.

It's kind of funny, but in the source there is a LOT of content that doesn't show on the screen. Stuff I've never seen in any browser or OS. And, it's not commented out. Weird.

Apparently you haven't seen much page source in a number of years. Family Search fonts are styled via CSS. The CSS is called by the HTML page in its <head>, via the following mess: <link media="screen" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="https://cdn.familysearch.org/common/bundle/home-0.25.12.css?urls=/common/oquirrh/theme-0.1.css+/common/oquirrh/headerfooter-0.3.css+/search/css/searchapp.css+/search/css/newsearch.css+/search/css/page/home.css+/search/css/fs.forms.css+/search/css/fs.autosuggest.css+/search/css/fs.hrsearch.css" /> The URLs referred to there do virtually all the page styling, including font "suggestions" that your "allow pages to choose fonts" setting can have FF disregard. Until <body>, nothing in the source is supposed to be displayed. Scripting can also cause display of things not present in the HTML source. CSS gives web stylists amazing power to make pages hard or impossible to use. Luckily, FF has a view menu option to disregard the CSS altogether on a page by page basis, which while it won't leave many pages pretty, will at least make most possible to use in spite of inept or stupid styling. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 24/02/12 02:58, Billie Walsh wrote:

On 02/23/2012 09:26 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

...

On 2012/02/23 09:06 (GMT-0600) Billie Walsh composed:

...

Fonts are set to "serif" at 16pt.

In FF 16 is px, not pt. 16px=12pt.

...

I don't even see a setting that allows the web site to set the font.

In FF, click on "Advanced" to find more choices, including the checkbox that defaults to allowing pages to choose fonts.

Well, it looks like face is reddest. Unchecked it and now it works fine. I didn't see where the page calls for a font in the source code but it must be in there somewhere. I wonder what font it calls that I don't have installed already.

I always just figured it was a flash problem because it exhibited the exact same symptoms that flash does when it isn't working.

It's kind of funny, but in the source there is a LOT of content that doesn't show on the screen. Stuff I've never seen in any browser or OS. And, it's not commented out. Weird.

So, FF is now displaying everything on that genealogy site, correct? BC -- The more sand has escaped from the hourglass of our life, the clearer we should see through it. Niccolo Machiavelli -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2012/02/23 21:45 (GMT-0600) Billie Walsh composed:

There's this bit that shows up in the source that I don't see on the page anywhere:

...

<div id="gedcom_link"> ...

Now go looking for "gedcom_link" in the CSS. Likely you'll find it followed by "display: none" or "display: hidden". If you don't, then look for it in the scripts. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 02/23/2012 10:57 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:

Well, from where I sit, I am not into looking at sources and, moreover, as I am not a registered user of that site I have no idea which page you are talking about.

How about taking a snapshot of the page you are talking about, posting it on susepaste.org and giving us its link? This way at least I (and others) can get to that page and see what WE see on it (because all pages *I* look at show no problems).

BC

Actually, it's not a big deal. If I dig, as was suggested by someone else, I might find the reason. I just don't care enough to dig that deep. The most important part of the page does show and thats all thats really necessary. -- “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government lest it come to dominate our lives and interests”. - Patrick Henry - _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 02/24/2012 12:13 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

On 24/02/12 16:40, Billie Walsh wrote:

...

On 02/23/2012 10:57 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Well, from where I sit, I am not into looking at sources and, moreover, as I am not a registered user of that site I have no idea which page you are talking about.

How about taking a snapshot of the page you are talking about, posting it on susepaste.org and giving us its link? This way at least I (and others) can get to that page and see what WE see on it (because all pages *I* look at show no problems).

BC

Actually, it's not a big deal. If I dig, as was suggested by someone else, I might find the reason. I just don't care enough to dig that deep. The most important part of the page does show and thats all thats really necessary.

OK, so all you are doing is 'stirring the pot', so to speak :-) .

How about you enter the name of this site here

http://validator.w3.org/

and see how many errors in, and warnings about, the code the genealogy site uses?

BC

I just thought it was interesting that there was content that didn't show. All I really care about on that site is that I can see what goes where and perform the search, and then see the results. Everything else is immaterial really. The site really validates quite well. Seventeen errors and three warnings. The errors are the use of the ampersand [ & ] rather than "&" and the warnings are for deprecated tags used. Other than that it's a pretty clean page. My own pages tend to not validate extremely well because I tend to use a lot of deprecated tags. There are some tags that do things that it takes quite a bit of "style" to get done. I learned to do pages back when just about the only editor was Notepad and all the tags there were only covered about four pages of large print/single sided. I'm learning to use style elements, but it's hard for an old dog to learn new tricks. -- “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government lest it come to dominate our lives and interests”. - Patrick Henry - _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Billie Walsh wrote:

There are some websites that use flash as an integral part of the design. Without flash you basically get a blank screen. No data.

On some sites, that would be an improvement. ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 02/22/2012 11:16 PM, jdd wrote:

Le 22/02/2012 16:02, Marcus Meissner a écrit :

...

With the 11.2 release targeted for this year we still have 5 (FIVE) years of seeing the options.

Lets hope Flash is finally dead then.

yes

or Firefox manage to run the chrome plugin...

There is no chrome plugin. Flash is embedded within chrome. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

C wrote:

On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 16:02, Marcus Meissner wrote:

...

With the 11.2 release targeted for this year we still have 5 (FIVE) years of seeing the options.

Lets hope Flash is finally dead then.

Five years is not that long (heck, that was what... openSUSE 10.3? and we still have loads of users here still using that release)

Just the other day I was checking up on a fairly ancient system in our datacentre - SuSE 8.2, uptime 845 days. :-)

.. five years go by very quickly... well, too quickly for my liking, but I think it's a symptom of getting older :-P The reality is, Flash won't be dead in five years...

Yeah, I doubt it very much.

there will still be loads of websites that use it. How many other technologies are out there that we wish would die, but never seem to go away..

Intel x86? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2/22/2012 4:16 PM, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

On 22/02/12 12:18, C wrote:

...

On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 16:02, Marcus Meissner wrote:

...

...

With the 11.2 release targeted for this year we still have 5 (FIVE) years of seeing the options.

Lets hope Flash is finally dead then.

Five years is not that long

Five years is more than what anyone can expect a company to support a **free of charge** browser plugin.

Maintaining aging technologies is a very painful and expensive thing to do.

Not quite there 'Hoss'. Adobe actively pushed and sold flash to the web at large for years. Web site designers used it because Adobe convinced them it was great. Adobe only made the consumption part free to make it possible to sell the hell out of the creation part. It IS rather their obligation not to break all the bezillion web sites made out of the product they sold to all the bezillion developers and indirectly to all the bezillion little mom & pop garages, bake shops, restaurants, barber shops, schools, etc etc etc who paid what was for them a major investment to have a web site made at all. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2012/02/23 09:52 (GMT-0500) Brian K. White composed:

...

Adobe actively pushed and sold flash to the web at large for years.

Yes

...

Web site designers used it because Adobe convinced them it was great.

Yes

...

Adobe only made the consumption part free to make it possible to sell the hell out of the creation part.

Yes

...

It IS rather their obligation not to break all the bezillion web sites made out of the product they sold to all the bezillion developers and indirectly to all the bezillion little mom&  pop garages, bake shops, restaurants, barber shops, schools, etc etc etc who paid what was for them a major investment to have a web site made at all.

Not the way I see it. Several times a year Adobe provides newer releases, maybe a dozen or more. The feature set changes. Sites say your version is too old, you need to download the latest. If you don't, what used to work doesn't, because part of the Adobe creation pitch is to use the newest features ASAP, and that's what sites do, updating their pages so only the latest Flash version works, while FOSS Flash substitutes also fail. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

What I plan on doing is what I've been doing which is using Google Chrome. ADOBE Inc can do as it wishes. I get stable Chrome releases with regularity. I refuse to be overly paranoid abut Google. Steven -- ____________ Steven L Hess ARS KC6KGE DM05gd22 Skype user flamebait Cell 661 487 0357 (Facetime) Google Voice 661 769 6201 openSUSE  Linux 11.4 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2/23/2012 10:27 AM, C wrote:

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 16:22, Steven Hess wrote:

...

What I plan on doing is what I've been doing which is using Google Chrome. ADOBE Inc can do as it wishes. I get stable Chrome releases with regularity. I refuse to be overly paranoid abut Google.

I find Chromium to have some issues... I've been using it as a primary browser since I installed openSUSE 12.1... webpages sometimes end up all black with a blue border... ie unusable and unreadable. Sometimes reloading the page several times will get it to render. This happens mainly with YouTube pages, but not always... sometimes other pages. I had one page a few days ago that would pulse (for lack of a better word) from fully rendered to the black with blue border thing.

It's weird... I still am using Chromium... but... it's less than usable some days. :-P No idea if "Chrome" would be better than Chromium here...

C.

You need multiple browsers always. 1) Any one becomes too dominant and it warps the standard around it's particular idiosyncrasies, and then everything else has to become "bug-compatible" or else effectively break through no fault of their own, and things that can't possibly change like everything that's already been written and embedded simply break, also through no fault of their own. 2) And of course nothing is perfect so no matter what you need ready alternatives for those times when the wunderkind fails. I happen to use chrome wherever possible by default these days. Well for some reason I have yet to track down, on my little Vaio P (that's why I haven't tracked the problem down, this device is hardly really useful except as a toy to play with) running ubuntu and lxde and the accursed gma500 graphics chip, both chrome and chromium crash my entire X session, not just the browser, not just lxde, but the X server itself (if it were just lxde crashing, I'd be dropped back to the xdm-alike not all the way back to a shell.) Restart X and repeat the crash 2 or 3 times and the entire box locks up and I have to power-cycle it. Firefox doesn't. It's been the same way through at least 3 ubuntu version upgrades, which means who knows how many chrome/chromium updates, several kernels, several versions of emgd driver. It's probably actually just something bad in the users profile, cache, settings, etc, ie fixable, but it doesn't matter what it is. It still shows that chrome behaves different than firefox and there is a demonstrable situation where chrome causes, directly or indirectly, an unusually catastrophic crash, and firefox doesn't. Simple answers aren't. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org