[opensuse] How does one upgrade to the next stable release of openSUSE?
I am trying to learn as much as I can about openSUSE, however there is one crucial design philosophy I have difficulty to grasp; openSUSE way of handeling updates. I wonder: -Which ways are there to update openSUSE from one stable release to another? -Is it also possible to skip a release when updating? e.g. is it possible to update 10 to 10.3 or 9 to 10.2? - Is there also an incremental stable (not factory) update possibility? This would mean that when openSUSE 11 is released openSUSE 10.3 users have already updated to 11 incrementally meaning no need for upgrading. -- Regards, Aniruddha Please adhere to the OpenSUSE_mailing_list_netiquette http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_mailing_list_netiquette -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 25 October 2007 12:42, Aniruddha wrote:
I am trying to learn as much as I can about openSUSE, however there is one crucial design philosophy I have difficulty to grasp; openSUSE way of handeling updates. I wonder:
-Which ways are there to update openSUSE from one stable release to another?
The installer is designed for either fresh installation (ignoring any existing one) or an upgrade installation, which is done incrementally w.r.t. an existing installation. You make an explicit selection of which mode early on when running the installer.
-Is it also possible to skip a release when updating? e.g. is it possible to update 10 to 10.3 or 9 to 10.2?
It is, but see below. I recall one person recently mentioning here (this list) successfully doing a 10.0 -> 10.3 upgrade. More below.
- Is there also an incremental stable (not factory) update possibility? This would mean that when openSUSE 11 is released openSUSE 10.3 users have already updated to 11 incrementally meaning no need for upgrading.
Here are some of my perspectives, views and opinions. They are neither authoritative, definitive nor official. - The view long held by those among us inclined to be conservative about system stability and integrity have generally had a strong preference for using only clean installs, not upgrades. - I think it's likely (without having any particular evidence for it— just a hunch) that skipping more releases is likely to increase the risk of there being "issues" during upgrade. - I have used only clean installs until the release of openSUSE 10.3, which I applied as an upgrade from 10.2. There are several salient facts surrounding this, however: -- It was not convenient for me (for irrelevant reasons) to do a clean install. -- The machine was not a critical resource. -- The machine was running nearly a stock installation of 10.2. -- I spent considerable time during the actual installation process using the installer to resolve package conflicts. -- I spent considerable time after the installation was complete performing further cleaning up of left-over packages from the 10.2 installation (see the thread "How To Route Out Leftover Pre-Upgrade Packages?" from 2007-10-22@12:50 (PDT == GMT - 0700)). - I encountered a problem with the installer in which it failed to install GRUB. I had to mangle it manually, and this is not something for amateurs. - It is immensely helpful to have a separate working system with Internet access so you can access on-line resources to help you with any difficulties that might arise. - When I asked about a 10.2 -> 10.3 upgrade that would have gone from 32-bit to 64-bit, I was told this would not work. I decided not to try, and stuck with 32-bit. Overall, I'm satisfied with the result of my 10.2 -> 10.3 upgrade, but I'd still prefer clean installations. Were it convenient or had the system been a more critical resource or had it diverged more from a stock installation, I would have been even more reluctant to have tried an upgrade. In short, unless you have fair expertise in Linux and SUSE internals and have good fallback computing resources, I'd stick to a clean installation.
... Aniruddha
Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 25 October 2007 21:28:23 Randall R Schulz wrote:
It is, but see below. I recall one person recently mentioning here (this list) successfully doing a 10.0 -> 10.3 upgrade. More below. I have just done a 10.1 to 10.3 upgrade with hardly any problems.
-- Andrew Johnson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 25 October 2007 14:33, Andrew Johnson wrote:
On Thursday 25 October 2007 21:28:23 Randall R Schulz wrote:
It is, but see below. I recall one person recently mentioning here (this list) successfully doing a 10.0 -> 10.3 upgrade. More below.
I have just done a 10.1 to 10.3 upgrade with hardly any problems.
Unless they were entirely idiosyncratic or perhaps just cockpit error, it might be helpful to hear a bit about the problems you did encounter and how you resolved them.
Andrew Johnson
Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 25 October 2007 22:54:11 Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Thursday 25 October 2007 14:33, Andrew Johnson wrote:
On Thursday 25 October 2007 21:28:23 Randall R Schulz wrote:
It is, but see below. I recall one person recently mentioning here (this list) successfully doing a 10.0 -> 10.3 upgrade. More below.
I have just done a 10.1 to 10.3 upgrade with hardly any problems.
Unless they were entirely idiosyncratic or perhaps just cockpit error, it might be helpful to hear a bit about the problems you did encounter and how you resolved them. On my Suse 10.1 installation I used ndiswrapper to run my wireless card which was a Belkin (Broadcom Air Force One) wireless card (which 10.2 and 10.3 both recognise) but then Yast tells me that I have to add some software to get it to work. Fine. Tried bcm43xx-fwcutter which fails because apparently it doesn't find a matching serial number in my bcmwl5.sys recovered from Belkin CD. I can't remember the exact train of events but somehow it finally dawned on me that before I could use ndiswrapper, I needed to remove the bcm43xx modulefrom the kernel. Once I had removed that with modprobe -r, the installation of ndiswrapper and setup of my wireless card went just as easily as setting it up in 10.1 (I have used 10.2 but I just didn't like it for some reason that now escapes me).
I also had a problem with one of the Java 1.5 files that Yast refused to upgrade because it insisted the file wasn't there. In the end after seeing advice elsewhere (I think on this list), I downloaded the installer from Sun Microsystems web site and loaded it in that way. Subsequently my Java is thoroughly well behaved. The original error here may have been cockpit error in what I told Yast to do to resolve dependencies so I can'y say whether this was a bug or not. -- Andrew Johnson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2007-10-25 at 13:28 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
-Is it also possible to skip a release when updating? e.g. is it possible to update 10 to 10.3 or 9 to 10.2?
It is, but see below. I recall one person recently mentioning here (this list) successfully doing a 10.0 -> 10.3 upgrade. More below.
I did 9.3 --> 10.2, no problems. Not unexpected problems, at least.
Here are some of my perspectives, views and opinions. They are neither authoritative, definitive nor official.
- The view long held by those among us inclined to be conservative about system stability and integrity have generally had a strong preference for using only clean installs, not upgrades.
I'm an exception: I always upgrade. I have done so since 5.3. If it hoses (it did once, 7.3 --> 8.1), there is the backup and retry or clean install. My advice is to do a full backup before either upgrading or instaling new version fresh. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFHIcOBtTMYHG2NR9URAkd7AJsFxIGlvHYW45NkvtacFg3VKdJV9ACfdiiV GZxz49jAhG05j2NK033t0vc= =3Pci -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri October 26 2007, Carlos E. R. scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:
The Thursday 2007-10-25 at 13:28 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
-Is it also possible to skip a release when updating? e.g. is it possible to update 10 to 10.3 or 9 to 10.2?
It is, but see below. I recall one person recently mentioning here (this list) successfully doing a 10.0 -> 10.3 upgrade. More below.
I did 9.3 --> 10.2, no problems. Not unexpected problems, at least.
Here are some of my perspectives, views and opinions. They are neither authoritative, definitive nor official.
- The view long held by those among us inclined to be conservative about system stability and integrity have generally had a strong preference for using only clean installs, not upgrades. adding to this one.. generally a clean install also has the benefit of cleaning out old programs, folders and files that may have been something you *thought about* installing, and then didn't.
Or you did install said program, but for various reasons decided against keeping it and the uninstall of said program isn't complete. By which I mean, perhaps some files or folders are not in standard locations so when you delete the folder and files, or use whatever uninstall system you normally use, all the bits aren't always cleanly removed. This can happen when there is a new consensus coming together in the Linux community, about exactly where various bits and pieces of code are to be placed so ( in our case ) *Suse* and in general Distro "X" , also, knows where to look for it. It sometimes happened in the past when there was a disagreement as to the exact ( preferred ) location of files or folders should be. *But* if you are installing something that you got , for instance, directly from the primary programmer. (i.e. Usually the latest and greatest multimedia files are ones you may find work better than what was in the current release.Perhaps only the newest Alsa, or Jack, or Amarok or ???? actually recognizes your sound card or chip, it happens <shrug>) This problem seems to have resolved itself ... for now.... ;-) As you can see , you can have a lot of files or folders lying about your system that may NOT cause problems, but waste space.. and Just might cause odd problems in the future. A clean install gets rid of all the *chit* and makes things tidy. And you recover space on your drives you weren't even aware you were missing. This might be really important on a laptop.
I'm an exception: I always upgrade. I have done so since 5.3. If it hoses (it did once, 7.3 --> 8.1), there is the backup and retry or clean install.
My advice is to do a full backup before either upgrading or instaling new version fresh. Oh boy ,Carlos is so right on the money here. I agree, and more, suggest you don't "skimp" on this backup. Put in items, files, you might not do in a normal backup.. like, for instance, some of your config files. The ones in the /etc directory , as those are your system wide settings.
That way you will have a copy you can SEE to compare to the *new* one , should there be some sort of odd config problem. You *could* just print them.. but that's a lot of paper! Be certain , whatever route you go, that you have a clean copy of your /etc/X11/XF86Config file ( and perhaps print a copy as well ) & the /etc/X11/xorg.conf for good measure. Just in case... perhaps ,the next nvidia-xconfig makes a dogs dinner of things.. or your power goes down in the middle of installing the drivers for your monitor and video card.. or chips Dastardly things can happen. In fact I would make sure I had a printed copy of any item that has given me trouble in the past.. be certain you note changes especially. If you also have a clean copy of these files, you can always use your init 3 login and just rename the one that isn't working and then copy your old one into that location.( assuming, for instance you *do* have the nvidia driver installed !! Obviously if it isn't installed and you copy a config file that is looking for nvidia drivers, you will most likely not get a display. You are going to be really unhappy at that. ;) however, if it's just something weird in the way the file got written, or it wasn't completely done.. replacing the bolloxed on w/ a prior config file that worked will allow you get back to a desktop and presumably if getting a display is your main problem, you can send email "shout out" for help.. :) Chances are you won't need it, and it's even less likely that anything can go as radically wrong as some of us have had in the past. Usually w/ a box which isn't a critical use box.. so if it's down , or needs care, or a kick in the backside.. we can make it obey. As you can see, many "old hands" ( relatively speaking in computer usage terms, Linux user terms ) are opting for an upgrade, even when it's more than one level upgrade.. But as you say you are "new" ... be aware things happen. And it's just a good idea to make these backups .... just in case.. you know, meteors, dust motes from Mars, lightning strikes, someone drives a bus thru your location... a rare likelihood sure, but take a few minutes, take an afternoon, and prepare.. before you attempt an upgrade, or a from scratch install... eventually you will also be an "old hand" and will have your own comfort level to offer. Also, while you feel "new"at Suse, take notes. Make notes of what you change, and why.. it's easier to undo something if you actually know what you did in the first place. :-) HTH -- j I've lived in the real world enough, we're all here because we ain't all there. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2007-10-25 at 13:28 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Here are some of my perspectives, views and opinions. They are neither authoritative, definitive nor official.
- The view long held by those among us inclined to be conservative about system stability and integrity have generally had a strong preference for using only clean installs, not upgrades.
Thank you for stating that. This is a valuable lesson. I must say I am puzzled by the inconvenient upgrade path openSUSE (and most other distributions) offer. When you think about it any given system is only the sum of the kernel, gnu-utils and software packages like kde and X11. Look at Linux from scratch, you wouldn't install the whole system twice because this is a waist of time, you only upgrade the packages you need/want. In short we use the 'cathedral' model for handeling 'bazar' type software. Where is the best place to propose an alternative? Novell bugzilla? -- Regards, Aniruddha Please adhere to the OpenSUSE_mailing_list_netiquette http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_mailing_list_netiquette -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 10/26/2007 07:33 PM, Aniruddha wrote:
On Thu, 2007-10-25 at 13:28 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Here are some of my perspectives, views and opinions. They are neither authoritative, definitive nor official.
- The view long held by those among us inclined to be conservative about system stability and integrity have generally had a strong preference for using only clean installs, not upgrades.
Thank you for stating that. This is a valuable lesson.
I must say I am puzzled by the inconvenient upgrade path openSUSE (and most other distributions) offer. When you think about it any given system is only the sum of the kernel, gnu-utils and software packages like kde and X11.
Look at Linux from scratch, you wouldn't install the whole system twice because this is a waist of time, you only upgrade the packages you need/want. In short we use the 'cathedral' model for handeling 'bazar' type software.
Where is the best place to propose an alternative? Novell bugzilla?
I have to say I do not agree. I think SUSE provides one of the best upgrades possible (don't have a lot to compare though). I have mostly upgraded, starting seriously at 6.4 (though I tried 6.2 and 6.3). I skipped til 7.3, then 8.0, then 8.2, and upgrading was not that hard. They even document the changes from version to version. My present system had a new install (because it was new hardware) with 9.1, upgrades to 9.2, 9.3, 10.1, 10.2, and now 10.3. This may cause some small problems, but overall it works extremely well. I did do a new install at work when I upgraded from 9.3 to 10.2, since all the smaller changes that went from version to version are harder to deal with in such a big change in so many packages and in so many core areas. I do not mind the challenges brought by an upgrade, and my experiences since 6.4 have definitely not convinced me SUSE's upgrade path is inconvenient, but the opposite. But, like in most things, we all have our own personal opinions. Remember to have a lot of fun! -- Joe Morris Registered Linux user 231871 running openSUSE 10.3 x86_64 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Aniruddha wrote:
I am trying to learn as much as I can about openSUSE, however there is one crucial design philosophy I have difficulty to grasp; openSUSE way of handeling updates. I wonder:
-Which ways are there to update openSUSE from one stable release to another?
-Is it also possible to skip a release when updating? e.g. is it possible to update 10 to 10.3 or 9 to 10.2?
- Is there also an incremental stable (not factory) update possibility? This would mean that when openSUSE 11 is released openSUSE 10.3 users have already updated to 11 incrementally meaning no need for upgrading.
I have used the upgrade route from 9.3 to 10.2. Most issues where config file related (some inconsistency between configuration being retained and configurations being backup up, and a couple being completely pasted). It was some time ago I did this so I cannot remember details. An upgrade between two of the 9.x or 8.x to 9.x versions (I forget which) did create some additional problems in that guid and uid defaults were changed which did create issues with NFS and to a lesser extent samba. The decision to upgrade or install cleanly is far as I am concerned not straight forward, and IMHO the same considerations need to be taking in account whatever version OS is involved. IMHO It depends on the following factors... 1) How complex the current configuration is. In my experience merely backing up /etc and another configuration locations and expecting the machine to work again after copying back onto a clean install just does not work. You need to have a good idea of what configuration files you have changed and restore these configurations on an individual basis on a clean install. An upgrade at least gives a chance that some parts of your configuration are operational and potentially can save you time, by flagging those which need attention. With a machine which has been around for a while one probably is in situation that one cannot remember all changes so this is useful.... 2) If you have a large number of applications installed upgrade does give some benefits over clean install in that it will be quicker to get what you had going provided that you check what is proposed to be installed or removed by YaST. For a clean install part of the preparation will be to list what one have installed so it can be restored. 3) If you are regular user of ssh you can expect your ssh connectivity to the target machine to be initially non functional after a complete install (expect BTW means plan for it, I remember in some circumstance this has not occurred to others). The security certificates will have changed and ssh clients will complain. While this is not a big problem with one or two machines, with a large number of machines it is a potential pain. Also if you have a large number of user accounts or authentication settings it is wise to backup and restore security related info to a clean install. 4) If you have a machine which has largely be installed from the SuSE base repositories and you have few or no components from other sources and you have a a separate home partition, a clean install is probably best option. In other cases it is largely dependant on to what extent one can make verifiable backup of personal and configuration data (with at least two copies). If you cannot do the latter defer until you can either perform that backup or meet the former criteria. 5) If you are in an environment with spare kit whether you find a suitable machine to do a dry run. 6) Have a good plan to get back to what you had before if does not work out. Check if any changes to key software need to be taken into account. While most applications have some backward compatibility, a large jump between OS versions may also imply a significant change to service and application configurations. Planning is the key... merely throwing media into the machine and hitting install is a good way of a torching your machine and your data... - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHIbJRasN0sSnLmgIRAsOjAKDIE4CO9Vu4biyPA6t2I6BVsMk8HwCgyjxC SdPPO4tOoukwS80bJPpxctg= =4SVR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Andrew Johnson -
Aniruddha -
Carlos E. R. -
G T Smith -
jfweber＠gilweber.com -
Joe Morris (NTM) -
Randall R Schulz