[opensuse] Re: Linux Selection: Experts' Suggestions Required

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Bob Williams

25 Oct 2013 25 Oct '13

14:11

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 25/10/13 12:40, AP wrote:

...

Hello,

I need you suggestions personally.

I have installed openSUSE like I just have chosen Fedora for installation, without any knowledge. Since I just picked randomly, it came "openSUSE". That's all I know. Context is that I want to know the basics of Linux. I am actually in a job which requires me to just wander in the markets, which in fact has no connection with Linux at all!! Linux is just the desired hobby recently generated in my mind and that's why I came here. Yes I joined openSUSE mailing list because I installed this distribution. But I also had joined Ubuntu mailing list to just see what people talk. I found openSUSE lists more technical, at least a bit more (or even more..., from all aspects). Now, coming to the main point, I use system for basically entertainment -- watching movies, emailing, web surfing, etc..etc... are the primary tasks I would definitely do. As a user, I would always prefer to have security as the primary concern --- even though I know I don't know a bit of it but I have to use internet banking in my system! As said earlier, I hope the distribution (which you would suggest) would provide me the ways too ---- for learning Linux and know how things work, how stuff actually work.

I would try to make some times, AT LEAST on weekly basis. I agree that Linux must not be doing the things like Windows did/doing...but still I am to switch!! I don't want to be spoon-fed and that's have planned to use Linux in every-day life, which is a big decision for a windows-convertor.

I just hear that most of the hits goes to "Ubuntu" as I read at some source.....! I don't know the reason.....!

Now, you being knowing all the things, please tell me about the real differences between Ubuntu and openSUSE or any other distribution (like Fedora or Edubuntu or PCLinuxOS or whatever..., like Mint, etc...etc..) --- not because I actually installed openSUSE or because joined its mailing lists, but from the perspective of truth, truth in the sense, what actually the reality is and which stand at first and really should be tried our and which should be avoided at the beginners level. I hope that it won't matter for me whether I should use a .deb distro or a .rpm distro, but one should be better than other, I believe (I came to know that Linux distros are mostly either .deb or .rpm).

Said that, I know it depends from person to person, but experts' experience definitely play a vital role in the decisions of the young ones! That's all. My computer details:

HDD: 250 GB RAM: 2 GB

No other graphics card is there, only one printer (Samsung) and speakers (local brand) are there!!

Thanks.

Hello, AP, Sorry, I do not give personal tuition, not least because I am *not* "knowing all the things". Please continue to seek advice from the opensuse mailing list, where the appropriate expertise is. Please stop mailing me personally. Thank you. Bob - -- Bob Williams System: Linux 3.7.10-1.16-desktop Distro: openSUSE 12.3 (x86_64) with KDE Development Platform: 4.11.2 Uptime: 12:00pm up 22:48, 3 users, load average: 1.12, 0.69, 0.43 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlJqe/IACgkQ0Sr7eZJrmU5lyACfQWVsPYrr5Mzbx7a0b8HqbWm2 qVEAoKnJzogMTVB824o46VsBQmMpTi6T =57OZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

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Basil Chupin

25 Oct 25 Oct

14:28

On 25/10/13 14:11, Bob Williams wrote:

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On 25/10/13 12:40, AP wrote:

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Hello,

I need you suggestions personally. [pruned]

...

Hello, AP,

Sorry, I do not give personal tuition, not least because I am *not* "knowing all the things".

Please continue to seek advice from the opensuse mailing list, where the appropriate expertise is.

Please stop mailing me personally.

Thank you.

Bob

Many Thanks for posting this Bob. I had the exact same message posted to me and I have to say that I "fell for it" and have been replying to our friend from India a few times. But no more following your post here. Thanks again for posting your message. (This is where the use of gmail, or similar, should be BANNED. If one has to hide behind anonymity/false names then they do not deserve any time to spent on them.) BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.11.2 & kernel 3.11.6-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 OC 2GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Ted Byers

15:01

On Friday, October 25, 2013 02:28:17 PM Basil Chupin wrote:

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On 25/10/13 14:11, Bob Williams wrote:

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On 25/10/13 12:40, AP wrote:

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Hello,

(This is where the use of gmail, or similar, should be BANNED. If one has to hide behind anonymity/false names then they do not deserve any time to spent on them.)

BC That is a bit extreme Basil.

How then do you distinguish between those using gmail to hide from those who use gmail because it is more useful than any ISP known to the user? I am an example of the latter. I do not use any ISP's email service, in part because of the aggravation associated with changing ISPs that causes: and that aggravation increases geometrically with the size of your contact list. And I am not prepared to buy a domain name, along with a certificate for it (given the practices of places like GoDaddy and the ease with which one can set up a certificate authority, even this isn't a guarantee of identity), and then learn how to safely install/enable/configure my own mail server. Would you ban me because I find use of gmail more useful than an ISP's service and don't know how to run a mail server in a secure manner? Cheers Ted -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

David T-G

15:08

Ted, et al -- ...and then Ted Byers said... % % On Friday, October 25, 2013 02:28:17 PM Basil Chupin wrote: ... % > (This is where the use of gmail, or similar, should be BANNED. If one % > has to hide behind anonymity/false names then they do not deserve any % > time to spent on them.) % > % > BC % That is a bit extreme Basil. Agreed. % % How then do you distinguish between those using gmail to hide from those who % use gmail because it is more useful than any ISP known to the user? I am an ... % how to safely install/enable/configure my own mail server. Would you ban me % because I find use of gmail more useful than an ISP's service and don't know % how to run a mail server in a secure manner? Well, just because it's gmail, I admit that I would be tempted ;-) But I agree on many levels; although it simply may not be workable in the face of rampant commercialization and abuse of the 'net and everything on it, I still much prefer the ability to whip up another identity when I want to "change hats" for whatever reason over exact identification quite suitable to the average oppressive government (or, for that matter, the same commercial interests). Tolerating the average spammer or phisher is still not as expensive as losing all freedom (says the guy who lives in the country totally observed by the NSA, yeah, but we struggle on). % % Cheers % % Ted HANW :-D -- David T-G See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/email/ See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/tofu.txt

Basil Chupin

27 Oct 27 Oct

12:39

On 25/10/13 15:01, Ted Byers wrote:

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On Friday, October 25, 2013 02:28:17 PM Basil Chupin wrote:

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On 25/10/13 14:11, Bob Williams wrote:

...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On 25/10/13 12:40, AP wrote:

...
Hello, (This is where the use of gmail, or similar, should be BANNED. If one has to hide behind anonymity/false names then they do not deserve any time to spent on them.)

BC That is a bit extreme Basil.

Which is, of course, a subjective opinion :-) . I have held this view for 27 years now since I ran my first BBS and I shall not be swayed from this view.

...

How then do you distinguish between those using gmail to hide from those who use gmail because it is more useful than any ISP known to the user? I am an example of the latter. I do not use any ISP's email service, in part because of the aggravation associated with changing ISPs that causes: and that aggravation increases geometrically with the size of your contact list.

I don't understand. As I stated elsewhere (or was in here, in another thread?), is this something to do with the way ISPs operate in America? I use Thunderbird and it has a massive Contact list but this has nothing to do with my ISP (or rather ISPs because I have changed ISPs over the years). The only role my ISP has is that it receives my mail, holds it for me until I pick it up with TB and the ISP's server then immediately deletes that mail once I collect. The ISP has nothing to do with my Contact list. The list is on my computer, in /.thunderbird, and not on the ISP's server. Hence my comment that I don't understand what you are trying to say above.

...

And I am not prepared to buy a domain name, along with a certificate for it (given the practices of places like GoDaddy and the ease with which one can set up a certificate authority, even this isn't a guarantee of identity), and then learn how to safely install/enable/configure my own mail server. Would you ban me because I find use of gmail more useful than an ISP's service and don't know how to run a mail server in a secure manner?

Again, who is trying to make you run your own mail server? Certainly not me. My ISP here in Australia is iinet.net.au with whom I have an account; thru this account I send and receive e-mail as well as Newsgroups (although the latter are now hardly ever used). In other words, the ISP is my post office. Simple. Doesn't this sort of arrangement exist in America? Or is that everybody is brainwashed to use gmail and yahoo and whatever-else-there-is for mail activity? BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.11.2 & kernel 3.11.6-3 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 OC 2GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

14:00

* Basil Chupin [10-27-13 08:42]: [...]

...

The only role my ISP has is that it receives my mail, holds it for me until I pick it up with TB and the ISP's server then immediately deletes that mail once I collect.

At least it "disappears" from *your* sight. You have absolutely *no* way to state positively that "they" have removed it from their server. [...]

...

Doesn't this sort of arrangement exist in America? Or is that everybody is brainwashed to use gmail and yahoo and whatever-else-there-is for mail activity?

A demonstration of *cluelessness*. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin

14:09

On 27/10/13 14:00, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Basil Chupin [10-27-13 08:42]: [...]

...
The only role my ISP has is that it receives my mail, holds it for me until I pick it up with TB and the ISP's server then immediately deletes that mail once I collect. At least it "disappears" from *your* sight. You have absolutely *no* way to state positively that "they" have removed it from their server.

Not the point is it. Duaine has been complaining that he keeps seeing it even though he deletes it, and Billie states that he has seen 990+ messages in his ISP's 'trash' folder which then suddenly disappears - his last comment was that the number dropped from 900+ to the 5 messages which he had just collected. Don't you read what people write?

...

[...]

...
Doesn't this sort of arrangement exist in America? Or is that everybody is brainwashed to use gmail and yahoo and whatever-else-there-is for mail activity? A demonstration of *cluelessness*.

So educate me instead of giving obtuse responses. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.11.2 & kernel 3.11.6-3 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 OC 2GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

14:18

* Basil Chupin [10-27-13 10:12]:

...

On 27/10/13 14:00, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...
* Basil Chupin [10-27-13 08:42]: [...]

...
The only role my ISP has is that it receives my mail, holds it for me until I pick it up with TB and the ISP's server then immediately deletes that mail once I collect. At least it "disappears" from *your* sight. You have absolutely *no* way to state positively that "they" have removed it from their server.

Not the point is it. Duaine has been complaining that he keeps seeing it even though he deletes it, and Billie states that he has seen 990+ messages in his ISP's 'trash' folder which then suddenly disappears - his last comment was that the number dropped from 900+ to the 5 messages which he had just collected.

Don't you read what people write?

I read what *you* wrote and responded to *your* statement and stand by my response. It is you trying to duck responsibility for *your* statement.

...

...
[...]

...
Doesn't this sort of arrangement exist in America? Or is that everybody is brainwashed to use gmail and yahoo and whatever-else-there-is for mail activity? A demonstration of *cluelessness*.

So educate me instead of giving obtuse responses.

Basil, all of the world's problems are the fault of America, my perception based on your writings/ramblings and by "America", I assume you really only mean the US of A, rather than Canada. Your prejudices show. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin

28 Oct 28 Oct

11:02

On 27/10/13 14:18, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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* Basil Chupin [10-27-13 10:12]:

...
On 27/10/13 14:00, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...
* Basil Chupin [10-27-13 08:42]: [...]

...
The only role my ISP has is that it receives my mail, holds it for me until I pick it up with TB and the ISP's server then immediately deletes that mail once I collect. At least it "disappears" from *your* sight. You have absolutely *no* way to state positively that "they" have removed it from their server. Not the point is it. Duaine has been complaining that he keeps seeing it even though he deletes it, and Billie states that he has seen 990+ messages in his ISP's 'trash' folder which then suddenly disappears - his last comment was that the number dropped from 900+ to the 5 messages which he had just collected.

Don't you read what people write? I read what *you* wrote and responded to *your* statement and stand by my response. It is you trying to duck responsibility for *your* statement.

...
...
...
Doesn't this sort of arrangement exist in America? Or is that everybody is brainwashed to use gmail and yahoo and whatever-else-there-is for mail activity? A demonstration of *cluelessness*. So educate me instead of giving obtuse responses. Basil, all of the world's problems are the fault of America, my perception

[...] based on your writings/ramblings and by "America", I assume you really only mean the US of A, rather than Canada.

i didn't write North America or Americas but America. Common usage for America refers to the USA only. If one wants to talk about Canada then one mentions Canada; or if talking about both Canada and America then one would say North America. At the same time the term South America means all the countries on that continent and one wouldn't write South America when only referring to, say, Chile.

...

Your prejudices show.

You must have a funny definition of 'prejudice'. If one is offended by a foul smell or by obscenity does that constitute a 'prejudice'? BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.11.2 & kernel 3.11.6-3 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 OC 2GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward

27 Oct 27 Oct

14:05

Basil Chupin said the following on 10/27/2013 08:39 AM:

...

In other words, the ISP is my post office. Simple.

Doesn't this sort of arrangement exist in America? Or is that everybody is brainwashed to use gmail and yahoo and whatever-else-there-is for mail activity?

Yes, Basic, that's how it used to be, that's the old old model of the way the internet worked. But now its about politics and national security. National Three Letter Security Agencies find it easier to deal with centralized services than with figuring out a way to reach into every individual machine and extract details from each and every ~/.thunderbird on that machine. or ~/.kde4/kmail or whatever. And it might just be that with all those individual machines it may be that rather than the target machine being part of the Windows monoculture it is running one of the many variations of Linux, and the user is halfwaw security aware, which is much easier on Linux, and has not only set up very basic but very effective security but keeps changing it around, even when he's not changing the distribution. And who knows, perhaps that machine is run by or for a Terrorist organization. So yes, it is in the interests of that Three Letter Security Agency to brainwash not only Americans but people of ever nation to use gmail and yahoo and keep the American disk industry in business by storing the Petabytes of email and telephone conversations and web sites 'just in case' they hold evidence of terrorist activity. 'Terrorist activity' being defined as anything prejudicial to the State. We need to be careful. Advising people to use the old way of dealing with email such as you are advising, Basic, such as I've considered the norm, might be viewed as a terrorist activity in that it means the TLA can't monitor your contacts and build up its 'web of associations'. Yes, Basil, this has become a political matter. Its crazy but there you are. Perhaps we should end this thread now. -- When all government ...in little as in great things... shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power; it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another, and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated." -- Thomas Jefferson, 1821 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Doug

25 Oct 25 Oct

16:09

On 10/25/2013 1

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On 25/10/13 12:40, AP wrote:

...
Hello,

I need you suggestions personally.

I have installed openSUSE like I just have chosen Fedora for installation, without any knowledge. Since I just picked randomly, it came "openSUSE". That's all I know. Context is that I want to know the basics of Linux. I am actually in a job which requires me to just wander in the markets, which in fact has no connection with Linux at all!! Linux is just the desired hobby recently generated in my mind and that's why I came here. Yes I joined openSUSE mailing list because I installed this distribution. But I also had joined Ubuntu mailing list to just see what people talk. I found openSUSE lists more technical, at least a bit more (or even more..., from all aspects). Now, coming to the main point, I use system for basically entertainment -- watching movies, emailing, web surfing, etc..etc... are the primary tasks I would definitely do. As a user, I would always prefer to have security as the primary concern --- even though I know I don't know a bit of it but I have to use internet banking in my system! As said earlier, I hope the distribution (which you would suggest) would provide me the ways too ---- for learning Linux and know how things work, how stuff actually work.

I would try to make some times, AT LEAST on weekly basis. I agree that Linux must not be doing the things like Windows did/doing...but still I am to switch!! I don't want to be spoon-fed and that's have planned to use Linux in every-day life, which is a big decision for a windows-convertor.

I just hear that most of the hits goes to "Ubuntu" as I read at some source.....! I don't know the reason.....!

Now, you being knowing all the things, please tell me about the real differences between Ubuntu and openSUSE or any other distribution (like Fedora or Edubuntu or PCLinuxOS or whatever..., like Mint, etc...etc..) --- not because I actually installed openSUSE or because joined its mailing lists, but from the perspective of truth, truth in the sense, what actually the reality is and which stand at first and really should be tried our and which should be avoided at the beginners level. I hope that it won't matter for me whether I should use a .deb distro or a .rpm distro, but one should be better than other, I believe (I came to know that Linux distros are mostly either .deb or .rpm).

Said that, I know it depends from person to person, but experts' experience definitely play a vital role in the decisions of the young ones! That's all. My computer details:

HDD: 250 GB RAM: 2 GB

No other graphics card is there, only one printer (Samsung) and speakers (local brand) are there!!

Thanks.

/Bob Williams reply stripped out/ Some of what you ask is personal preference. I prefer the rpm system, with Synaptic as my file manager. I use PCLOS. Some people using other distros swear at Synaptic. (I don't know why.) If you want to learn Linux (or any of the Unixes) you will have to get some familiarity with the command line. Linux uses what is called the BASH shell--there are others, mostly similar. The shell is what contains the actual system you are using--the graphics is a layer on top of that. You can do a lot with the GUI, and a lot of the time it is simpler and faster, but at some point you are going to have to use the command line, in what's called the "terminal." (In ancient times, there was a separate unit containing a CRT display and a keyboard, and it was called a terminal. In prehistoric times, the terminal was a teletype machine.) An excellent reference to the more common commands is "Linux in a Nutshell," by Siever, Figgins, Love and Robbins, an O'Reilly book.I recently bought another copy, to give my son, and it was deeply discounted here in the US. The discount price was around $25. (I have no financial interest in the O'Reilly business.) I'm sure others will have more advice for you, and these mailing lists and forums are really helpful. PCLOS has a forum which usually produces more specific answers more quickly, but that is not to disparage other media, such as this list. --doug -- Blessed are the peacemakers..for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M.Greeley -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

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participants (7)

Anton Aylward
Basil Chupin
Bob Williams
David T-G
Doug
Patrick Shanahan
Ted Byers