First of all, let me say I support the decision to transition fully to yast2. Some of us old dinosaurs need a bit more of a push to adopt the new, and I'm getting more and more comfortable with it by the minute. For the past few days, I've been working on installing 8.0 on a rack-mounted server. To save my feet and back, I've preferred to use ssh and sit more comfortably at my desk. While yast2 isn't yet as intuitive as yast1 was for me, I'm finding it quite usable in the ncurses mode. I do wish, however, that the 'back-tab' function was implemented. All too often, I hit the tab key once too many, and then have to cycle all over the page again to get where I want to be. Today, once I got all the critical functions going, I decided to play, and see if I could make it prettier. I've heard about running X applications over an SSH link, so I thought I'd give it a try, and see if the performance was acceptable over a 10Mbit ethernet. However, I haven't been able to get it working - I still get the ncurses version. Here's what I'm doing: local> ssh -X serverhost <login> serverhost> echo $DISPLAY serverhost:10.0 serverhost> sux - password: ******* serverhost# echo $DISPLAY serverhost:10.0 serverhost# yast ...at this point I get the now-familiar yast2 ncurses opening screen. ...I also tried it starting with `ssh -l root -X serverhost` and got the same results. I remember from an earlier thread that it's supposed to use the X display any time it finds the $DISPLAY variable set. What else am I missing? My client workstation is running SuSE 7.2, kept up to date with YOU and yast1. I'm using openssh-2.9p1-25. Rick Green
In one of the weirder twists of yast in suse8, if you type "yast" you always get the text mode interface. typing "yast2" automatically detects either X mode or ncurses based on the $DISPLAY variable. Ewan On Fri, 2002-05-10 at 19:33, Rick Green wrote:
First of all, let me say I support the decision to transition fully to yast2. Some of us old dinosaurs need a bit more of a push to adopt the new, and I'm getting more and more comfortable with it by the minute.
For the past few days, I've been working on installing 8.0 on a rack-mounted server. To save my feet and back, I've preferred to use ssh and sit more comfortably at my desk. While yast2 isn't yet as intuitive as yast1 was for me, I'm finding it quite usable in the ncurses mode. I do wish, however, that the 'back-tab' function was implemented. All too often, I hit the tab key once too many, and then have to cycle all over the page again to get where I want to be. Today, once I got all the critical functions going, I decided to play, and see if I could make it prettier. I've heard about running X applications over an SSH link, so I thought I'd give it a try, and see if the performance was acceptable over a 10Mbit ethernet. However, I haven't been able to get it working - I still get the ncurses version.
Here's what I'm doing:
local> ssh -X serverhost <login> serverhost> echo $DISPLAY serverhost:10.0 serverhost> sux - password: ******* serverhost# echo $DISPLAY serverhost:10.0 serverhost# yast
...at this point I get the now-familiar yast2 ncurses opening screen.
...I also tried it starting with `ssh -l root -X serverhost` and got the same results.
I remember from an earlier thread that it's supposed to use the X display any time it finds the $DISPLAY variable set. What else am I missing?
My client workstation is running SuSE 7.2, kept up to date with YOU and yast1. I'm using openssh-2.9p1-25.
Rick Green
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com
Suse is great! For those who complain about ISO images my question is why? Using the FTP install you can install easily from mirror sites any time few weeks after release. Download 5 floppy images and you are ready to go. Much better then iso images. If you find ftp is slow from the mirror, create your own mirror!! Using rsync and with todays HD prices it is easy. Now if someone says something about bandwith I would like to remind it that downloading 6 iso images is quite a download too. So my question to marketing is: Can we have subscription to high availabily, dedicated, fresh rsync/ftp servers? Once I got hooked on ftp installs I am not going back flipping CDs specially if I am installing in SOHO. Now I could create an ftp site out of the CDs but that is very backward. I know that ftp.suse.com is free but: - it is subject to performance constraints. - rsync access is not available - new distro apears 6 weeks after release, 8-10 weeks by the time the rsync enabled mirrors have the whole thing. I am willing to pay however to get the distro early(not 2 mo after release) and to support the institution. Given the profit margins of a per box sells, I belive we could all benefit. Suse a steady subscriber base, users a great service maybe same or lower prices, better updates. Any ideas? Aron
Hi All & Arron, who most unwiesly waved a red flag in front of a bull ;-) To wit.... <snip> Suse is great! For those who complain about ISO images my question is why? <snip> *asbestos suit donned* Be so good as not to dismiss the banwidth issue @ the drop of a hat, it is a big deal. This is obvious to SuSe also, since they potentially gain more revenue by stiffling the channel, since one/two iso image/s downloaded & onsold by, say, Linux Central, is $$$ they may not see.... SuSE's gamble, is that, people will buy there distro, rather than go to another distro. Bean counters @ SuSE know & surprisingly are not telling. I eagally await the howels from the more strident on this list, for suggesting non-cripped ISO's are a good thing; FOR SuSE.... *asbestos suit un-donned* Yes, SuSE is a great distro. *BFN* H :-) I'll say it again for the logic impaired. -- Larry Wall Aron Sogor wrote:
Suse is great!
For those who complain about ISO images my question is why?
Using the FTP install you can install easily from mirror sites any time few weeks after release. Download 5 floppy images and you are ready to go. Much better then iso images. If you find ftp is slow from the mirror, create your own mirror!! Using rsync and with todays HD prices it is easy. Now if someone says something about bandwith I would like to remind it that downloading 6 iso images is quite a download too.
So my question to marketing is: Can we have subscription to high availabily, dedicated, fresh rsync/ftp servers? Once I got hooked on ftp installs I am not going back flipping CDs specially if I am installing in SOHO. Now I could create an ftp site out of the CDs but that is very backward.
I know that ftp.suse.com is free but: - it is subject to performance constraints. - rsync access is not available - new distro apears 6 weeks after release, 8-10 weeks by the time the rsync enabled mirrors have the whole thing.
I am willing to pay however to get the distro early(not 2 mo after release) and to support the institution. Given the profit margins of a per box sells, I belive we could all benefit. Suse a steady subscriber base, users a great service maybe same or lower prices, better updates.
Any ideas?
Aron
* Haralambos (haralambos@ihug.co.nz) [020510 16:10]:
Bean counters @ SuSE know & surprisingly are not telling.
I've always been very straightforward about our bandwidth limitations. Until recently, we had 50 Mbits for everything: ftp, rsync, mail (do you realize we send send an average 1.5 million mails per day because of these lists? Think about that the next time you don't feel like taking the time to trim your quoted text). Since we had to quickly move everything to Germany because our very cheap ISP went under we have even less bandwidth now. All the while we've had to turn away people willing to mirror us because we can't support anymore mirrors. If we had 100Mb we'd fill that up and ftp would still be slow although we could support more users. This isn't a conspiracy, it's just a matter of having finite bandwidth and not a lot of money. Bandwidth is a commodity, it's no secret how much 50Mb will cost. In the near future, the mirror situation will improve a lot. We will soon get a 100Mb connection that will only be used for rsync so that we don't have to turn people away anymore. -- -ckm
Hey, No Conspiracy! What Iam suggesting is a premium service for price. I think people would pay for access that would sustain better bandwidth. And it is not just bandwidth!!! I would like the distro now not in July. The matter of availability!! I like the distro I am ok with $80 per six mo. (although I would prefer a year, after the cost of creating the cds my offer is reasonable :) ). No I am not promoting anything sinister my deal is: You offer what you offer for free today. You offer download at release day via sync for a fee. The fee helps you and I get my distro without copying CDs to hard drives to install the stuff easily on many boxes. Listen even Solaris is free, and let me tell you sysadmins still subscribe to quarterly packages for a hefty fee. Why?? first of all it is not their money, second of all it is a pain to get those images to collect, download, burn. Specially if you try to maintain an ftp server for jumpstart. I thing there is a need we can all benefit. Suse financial success = longevity and availability of the distro we use!! Aron
* Aron Sogor (asogor@telocity.com) [020510 17:31]:
No I am not promoting anything sinister my deal is: You offer what you offer for free today. You offer download at release day via sync for a fee.
I agree that delay is stupid...I don't have any say in it however. It sounds good but what happens when we have 3000 people pay, just as a guess, $40 dollars for "priority access"? Of course, all 3000 of those people better be able to download in a reasonable amount of time that day. Afterall, this is the service they paid for and should get. At 4.5 GB per user times three thousand...that's 13TB in 24 hours roughly. The last anonymous ftp record I've heard of was Walnut Creek in 1999: 1.39TB in 24 hours with a gigabit connection. I'd be surprised if this hasn't been broken but you get the idea. -- -ckm
You could acknowledge the bandwidth limits and I think people are smart enough to realize that even 3000 paying customers can't all try to download 7 CDs worth of software at once. So, I'm willing to bet that even paying customers would be willing to participate in a lottery system whereby those 3000+ people are allowed on the servers at a reasonable rate. Depending on the number of people that actually sign up and the number of people the site can reasonably sustain simultaneously, you divide up the load. You do something like give people 72 hour windows in which to access the site and download the iso's. These windows would be maybe in a 2-week period prior to the release in stores, and your time slot would be determined by a lottery system. If SuSE told me I could download SuSE 8.1 Pro sometime betwen October 14-28, and that my actual window would be determined randomly in order to balance the load, then I would be willing to pay (a reduced) price for this privilege, probably something like $40. I don't know what the bandwidth and management of such a system would cost, but I would think the profit margins would be better than on physical packages of CDs and manuals. Something to think about. In my example, I'm also imagining that the release date in stores would be Oct 29 or later, so that one incentive to sign up for this "Insiders" program would be to be the first on the block with the latest SuSE distro. I'm not sure why this would even be necessary though, as I bet there are enough SuSE nuts out there who would host mirrors for free and you could balance the load by just distributing it REALLY widely. Maybe not... Yours, Brian. I proudly use SuSE Gnu/Linux 8.0 Professional. Kernel version 2.4.18-4GB Current Linux uptime: 9 days 19 hours 07 minutes. Christopher Mahmood wrote:
It sounds good but what happens when we have 3000 people pay, just as a guess, $40 dollars for "priority access"? Of course, all 3000 of those people better be able to download in a reasonable amount of time that day. Afterall, this is the service they paid for and should get. At 4.5 GB per user times three thousand...that's 13TB in 24 hours roughly. The last anonymous ftp record I've heard of was Walnut Creek in 1999: 1.39TB in 24 hours with a gigabit connection. I'd be surprised if this hasn't been broken but you get the idea.
<much snipping>
I think the only ISO's SuSE should make available are'; 1. Live Evaluation CD - Useful for demonstrating Linux to PHB's without doing an install as such (has anyone got the 8.0 one working ? Mine refuses to boot) 2. A single install CD for those who can't / won't pay for the boxed set. This could have YOU disabled, so you can only do on-line updates if you purchase the boxed set (maybe exclude security updates from this) 3. No support of any kind from SuSE Let's face it, Chris and others need to eat too, and SuSE would love to stay in business too...:-) Jon
* Brian W. Carver (bwcarver@earthlink.net) [020510 21:41]:
You could acknowledge the bandwidth limits and I think people are smart enough to realize that even 3000 paying customers can't all try to download 7 CDs worth of software at once.
You are much more optimistic than I am. If customers were half as demanding of Microsoft as they are of the various Linux companies MS would probably have some decent OS's. But maybe I'm just jaded. [snip lottery idea] A lottery system is great idea and in an ideal world with rational people it would be grand but how are we going to pay for all of the administration of this system? At $40 per person I'm almost certain that the production costs of the distribution wouldn't even be covered not to mention bandwidth, admins, the all of the customer service and paperwork involved, etc. -- -ckm
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
It sounds good but what happens when we have 3000 people pay, just as a guess, $40 dollars for "priority access"? Of
Really, it would seem like a good place for a third party company to come in and offer download hosting. It would probably be too costly for each distro to maintain seperate priority access systems, but with each company releasing new distros (or other software) every month or two, it could work if one company did it for everyone... Hey, anyone know a good VC? -Tim - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler tbutler@uninetsolutions.com Universal Networks http://www.uninet.info Christian Portal and Search Tool: http://www.faithtree.com Open Source Migration Guide: http://www.ofb.biz ============= "Christian Web Services Since 1996" ============== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE83TCzK37Cns9gJ0gRAjn4AKCDyXi5FPP7V+Gpj6zE2LsmCeKF1QCfVn7g zon1TeWjOCd8LgazMTXehcE= =gd3f -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
I eagally await the howels from the more strident on this list, for suggesting non-cripped ISO's are a good thing; FOR SuSE....
FWIW, I can honestly say it is good for SuSE. :-) Several reasons - first they'd be reviewed more often - small e-magazines like my company's OfB.biz simply can not afford to purchase a copy of every piece of software, so things that can be downloaded are more likely to be reviewed (or if the companies are kind enough to offer review copies - something SuSE apparently does not do). Secondly, as some of you know, I am mostly a Mandrake user these days. I would have never switched if it had not been for the fact that I was able to download an ISO of Mandrake, realize I liked it, and made the switch (which earned MDK $69 a few weeks ago when I bought my first MDK boxed set). Similarly, SuSE may be able to lure people away from other distros if they put their product up for people to d/l. Like Mandrake, they could put up a download edition approximately equal to the Personal Edition. Most people savvy enough to be burning copies of Linux probably want the Pro edition, so they may very well buy a copy if they are impressed with the distro. -Tim - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler tbutler@uninetsolutions.com Universal Networks http://www.uninet.info Christian Portal and Search Tool: http://www.faithtree.com Open Source Migration Guide: http://www.ofb.biz ============= "Christian Web Services Since 1996" ============== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE83TIaK37Cns9gJ0gRAqH2AJ4xk094J+NyQzsf5oj0lpyQjIZLFACbBnnV kJjUGvWqQSg6fNdFj46Q5uE= =u1a/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Saturday 11 May 2002 11:00, Timothy R. Butler wrote:
I eagally await the howels from the more strident on this list, for suggesting non-cripped ISO's are a good thing; FOR SuSE....
FWIW, I can honestly say it is good for SuSE. :-) Several reasons - first they'd be reviewed more often - small e-magazines like my company's OfB.biz simply can not afford to purchase a copy of every piece of software, so things that can be downloaded are more likely to be reviewed (or if the companies are kind enough to offer review copies - something SuSE apparently does not do).
Secondly, as some of you know, I am mostly a Mandrake user these days. I would have never switched if it had not been for the fact that I was able to download an ISO of Mandrake, realize I liked it, and made the switch (which earned MDK $69 a few weeks ago when I bought my first MDK boxed set). Similarly, SuSE may be able to lure people away from other distros if they put their product up for people to d/l. Like Mandrake, they could put up a download edition approximately equal to the Personal Edition. Most people savvy enough to be burning copies of Linux probably want the Pro edition, so they may very well buy a copy if they are impressed with the distro.
-Tim
I think that is the reason they offer and have the LiveEval CD image/files for folks to download Tim, so they can try it out without buying. This gives anyone the opportunity to try it out and decide if Linux is worth moving too or if SuSE distro would be a good change for them. SuSE guys correct me here if I am not correct on this. I know I keep a copy of the older 7.2 LiveEval cd around to show folks when I setup computers. Of course, I can also take them to my office and show them a full version running also. ;o) Hope you have better luck with the MDK 8.2 you purchased than the guys I have spoke too and seen emails from Tim. Sounds like most went back to 8.1 to get a good setup. Patrick -- --- KMail v1.4 --- SuSE Linux Pro v8.0 --- Registered Linux User #225206 Magic Page Products -- Amiga-SuSE-PC Sales & Service URL: http://home.sprintmail.com/~tracerb
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
I think that is the reason they offer and have the LiveEval CD image/files for folks to download Tim, so they can try it out without [...] setup computers. Of course, I can also take them to my office and show them a full version running also. ;o)
That is true. Although often times when something is different, you need to use it for a bit to decide you like it. I'm not sure if I would have switched to Mandrake if I hadn't seen the installer, and had a reason to tweak settings and stuff. Of course, SuSE hasn't had isos for awhile, so I guess they didn't gain many people via CD's, however I wonder if they gained enough sales to justify the potential loss in new sales? Anyway...
Hope you have better luck with the MDK 8.2 you purchased than the guys I have spoke too and seen emails from Tim. Sounds like most went back to 8.1 to get a good setup.
That's really odd sounding Pat. Most people I've talked to have hailed Mandrake 8.2 as the best release since 7.2 (considering 8.1, my first release with MDK, was very good, this is high praise indeed). Also considering the reviews... I've actually been running the download version since mid-March, I just bought the boxed set for StarOffice and also to support the distro I use (I've always bought at least one copy of Linux per year). -Tim - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler tbutler@uninetsolutions.com Universal Networks http://www.uninet.info Christian Portal and Search Tool: http://www.faithtree.com Open Source Migration Guide: http://www.ofb.biz ============= "Christian Web Services Since 1996" ============== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE83aUfK37Cns9gJ0gRAs7WAKCTzOiGA1GN+ETtweDzpnRdqTI8ewCfWgcw tdJj82TErT2oZdYyhTY5Frc= =Mv4Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
"Timothy R. Butler"
however I wonder if they gained enough sales to justify the potential loss in new sales?
Potential loss? It clearly wouldn't be a potential but a *real* loss if we would put up full ISOs. Specially now that broadband internet access like DSL is getting popular here in Germany. For those that don't want to pay for SuSE Linux, there's the FTP version and it's not that hard to create your own CD set from it. Philipp
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Potential loss? It clearly wouldn't be a potential but a *real* loss if we would put up full ISOs. Specially now that broadband internet access like DSL is getting popular here in Germany.
Hmm, I guess so. I'm not referencing putting up full ISO's, but maybe a two or three CD download set. The kind of thing that makes it easy to try SuSE, but anyone who really likes it will want more and buy the boxed set.
For those that don't want to pay for SuSE Linux, there's the FTP version and it's not that hard to create your own CD set from it.
If you notice the context of my message, I was not referring to people who want to get a free lunch, but those who aren't sure if they want to switch to SuSE and would like to give it a spin. -Tim - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler tbutler@uninetsolutions.com Universal Networks http://www.uninet.info Christian Portal and Search Tool: http://www.faithtree.com Open Source Migration Guide: http://www.ofb.biz ============= "Christian Web Services Since 1996" ============== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE83dBrK37Cns9gJ0gRAqEEAJ9nYIV7IzUEbA17AwKVWb+rOuBWeQCffjg/ 0eoATvkmPTKj6IA1q3dwFTM= =/1up -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (10)
-
Aron Sogor -
Brian W. Carver -
Christopher Mahmood -
Ewan Leith -
Haralambos -
Jon Biddell -
Patrick -
Philipp Thomas -
Rick Green -
Timothy R. Butler