[opensuse] Any VLC experts here?
I have a copy of Windows 7 Professional installed - not installed in a virtual drive - and have the VLC (version 2.1.3 for Windows) installed there. Last night I booted into W#7 to watch a Blu-ray disc but accidentally (force of habit I guess as VLC is what I use in openSUSE) selected VLC to view this Bd disc. To my total surprise VLC played that Bd disc perfectly and flawlessly! However, when I went back to openSUSE VLC (which is version 2.1.4, btw) in openSUSE had a hernia (as usual) and wouldn't even recognise that a Bd disc was inserted! So, the question is: why is VLC in Windows able to perfectly play Bd discs while in openSUSE it is a brain-dead application re Blu-ray? I have checked in YaST and there are libbluray* rpms installed. I know that this debate took place not long ago about whether to have VLC from openSUSE or from videolan.org installed and I am now wondering if this debate was more relevant than thought at that time. The VLC for Windows which I have installed comes from videolan.org itself, but the VLC which doesn't play Bd discs in openSUSE comes from openSUSE. Can anybody throw some light on this, please? BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.1-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op vrijdag 25 april 2014 17:14:53 schreef Basil Chupin:
I have a copy of Windows 7 Professional installed - not installed in a virtual drive - and have the VLC (version 2.1.3 for Windows) installed there.
Last night I booted into W#7 to watch a Blu-ray disc but accidentally (force of habit I guess as VLC is what I use in openSUSE) selected VLC to view this Bd disc.
To my total surprise VLC played that Bd disc perfectly and flawlessly!
However, when I went back to openSUSE VLC (which is version 2.1.4, btw) in openSUSE had a hernia (as usual) and wouldn't even recognise that a Bd disc was inserted!
So, the question is: why is VLC in Windows able to perfectly play Bd discs while in openSUSE it is a brain-dead application re Blu-ray?
I have checked in YaST and there are libbluray* rpms installed.
I know that this debate took place not long ago about whether to have VLC from openSUSE or from videolan.org installed and I am now wondering if this debate was more relevant than thought at that time.
The VLC for Windows which I have installed comes from videolan.org itself, but the VLC which doesn't play Bd discs in openSUSE comes from openSUSE.
Can anybody throw some light on this, please?
BC
You did not mention to have Packman in your list of repositories. Have you? -- fr.gr. Freek de Kruijf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 25/04/14 17:26, Freek de Kruijf wrote:
Op vrijdag 25 april 2014 17:14:53 schreef Basil Chupin:
I have a copy of Windows 7 Professional installed - not installed in a virtual drive - and have the VLC (version 2.1.3 for Windows) installed there.
Last night I booted into W#7 to watch a Blu-ray disc but accidentally (force of habit I guess as VLC is what I use in openSUSE) selected VLC to view this Bd disc.
To my total surprise VLC played that Bd disc perfectly and flawlessly!
However, when I went back to openSUSE VLC (which is version 2.1.4, btw) in openSUSE had a hernia (as usual) and wouldn't even recognise that a Bd disc was inserted!
So, the question is: why is VLC in Windows able to perfectly play Bd discs while in openSUSE it is a brain-dead application re Blu-ray?
I have checked in YaST and there are libbluray* rpms installed.
I know that this debate took place not long ago about whether to have VLC from openSUSE or from videolan.org installed and I am now wondering if this debate was more relevant than thought at that time.
The VLC for Windows which I have installed comes from videolan.org itself, but the VLC which doesn't play Bd discs in openSUSE comes from openSUSE.
Can anybody throw some light on this, please?
BC You did not mention to have Packman in your list of repositories. Have you?
There are some things which will not work if packman is not one of the repos so, yes, packman is always one of the first repos I add to the list of repositories. Oh, while I think of it and in case this is important, the packman repo has a higher priority (#95) than any of the openSUSE repos. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.1-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 25/04/14 08:14, Basil Chupin wrote:
I have a copy of Windows 7 Professional installed - not installed in a virtual drive - and have the VLC (version 2.1.3 for Windows) installed there.
Last night I booted into W#7 to watch a Blu-ray disc but accidentally (force of habit I guess as VLC is what I use in openSUSE) selected VLC to view this Bd disc.
To my total surprise VLC played that Bd disc perfectly and flawlessly!
However, when I went back to openSUSE VLC (which is version 2.1.4, btw) in openSUSE had a hernia (as usual) and wouldn't even recognise that a Bd disc was inserted!
So, the question is: why is VLC in Windows able to perfectly play Bd discs while in openSUSE it is a brain-dead application re Blu-ray?
I have checked in YaST and there are libbluray* rpms installed.
I know that this debate took place not long ago about whether to have VLC from openSUSE or from videolan.org installed and I am now wondering if this debate was more relevant than thought at that time.
The VLC for Windows which I have installed comes from videolan.org itself, but the VLC which doesn't play Bd discs in openSUSE comes from openSUSE.
Not from packman? Just as DVDs need libdvdcss for decoding, commercial blu-rays need libaacs - but unlike dvds where the encryption keys are well known and unchanging, AACS has keys and (revokable) certificates which are not part of the decryption library and must be obtained elsewhere (possibly illegally...) See http://www.videolan.org/developers/libaacs.html for starters... I can only assume that the AACS keys/certificates/licenses are legitimately available for Win7 etc...
Can anybody throw some light on this, please?
BC
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On 25/04/14 17:58, Dylan wrote:
On 25/04/14 08:14, Basil Chupin wrote:
I have a copy of Windows 7 Professional installed - not installed in a virtual drive - and have the VLC (version 2.1.3 for Windows) installed there.
Last night I booted into W#7 to watch a Blu-ray disc but accidentally (force of habit I guess as VLC is what I use in openSUSE) selected VLC to view this Bd disc.
To my total surprise VLC played that Bd disc perfectly and flawlessly!
However, when I went back to openSUSE VLC (which is version 2.1.4, btw) in openSUSE had a hernia (as usual) and wouldn't even recognise that a Bd disc was inserted!
So, the question is: why is VLC in Windows able to perfectly play Bd discs while in openSUSE it is a brain-dead application re Blu-ray?
I have checked in YaST and there are libbluray* rpms installed.
I know that this debate took place not long ago about whether to have VLC from openSUSE or from videolan.org installed and I am now wondering if this debate was more relevant than thought at that time.
The VLC for Windows which I have installed comes from videolan.org itself, but the VLC which doesn't play Bd discs in openSUSE comes from openSUSE.
Not from packman?
Sorry, my apologies - I misread the entry in YasT. VLC and associated files *are* from packman.
Just as DVDs need libdvdcss for decoding, commercial blu-rays need libaacs - but unlike dvds where the encryption keys are well known and unchanging, AACS has keys and (revokable) certificates which are not part of the decryption library and must be obtained elsewhere (possibly illegally...) See http://www.videolan.org/developers/libaacs.html for starters...
I can only assume that the AACS keys/certificates/licenses are legitimately available for Win7 etc...
Well, I have the libaacs* files (also from packman) installed on 13.1 and which appear to be the same version number as the one(s) in Windows. Since VLC for Windows comes from the same stable as the one for openSUSE then there must be another reason why vlc works perfectly in Windows but not in openSUSE (I don't know how it works in other distros). BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.1-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 27/04/14 08:18, Basil Chupin wrote:
Well, I have the libaacs* files (also from packman) installed on 13.1 and which appear to be the same version number as the one(s) in Windows.
Since VLC for Windows comes from the same stable as the one for openSUSE then there must be another reason why vlc works perfectly in Windows but not in openSUSE (I don't know how it works in other distros).
VLC explicitly state they they *do not* distribute the aacs keys as part of the library (either for Linux or Windows.) Those that Windows clearly has access to must, therefore, come from somewhere else (M$ directly, seems a reasonable first assumption.) You might try looking for the key database file, KEYDB.cfg apparently, in your Windows installation, and stop blaming VLC for being 'broken' because it doesn't break a license which could lead leave it open to crippling legal action and cause a set of keys to be revoked. More info at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/BluRay which is the first result when searching google for "aacs key linux"... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 27/04/14 17:42, Dylan wrote:
On 27/04/14 08:18, Basil Chupin wrote:
Well, I have the libaacs* files (also from packman) installed on 13.1 and which appear to be the same version number as the one(s) in Windows.
Since VLC for Windows comes from the same stable as the one for openSUSE then there must be another reason why vlc works perfectly in Windows but not in openSUSE (I don't know how it works in other distros).
VLC explicitly state they they *do not* distribute the aacs keys as part of the library (either for Linux or Windows.) Those that Windows clearly has access to must, therefore, come from somewhere else (M$ directly, seems a reasonable first assumption.) You might try looking for the key database file, KEYDB.cfg apparently, in your Windows installation, and stop blaming VLC for being 'broken' because it doesn't break a license which could lead leave it open to crippling legal action and cause a set of keys to be revoked.
More info at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/BluRay which is the first result when searching google for "aacs key linux"...
Thanks for this Dylan. I shall read the references you provide. But lets' stop pretending and claiming piety and purity about this. vlc is able to play DVDs, right? And it wouldn't be able to do so unless there were files available to be able to do so, right? So why should playing Blu-ray discs be any different? BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.1-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-04-27 17:58 (GMT+1000) Basil Chupin composed:
vlc is able to play DVDs, right? And it wouldn't be able to do so unless there were files available to be able to do so, right?
So why should playing Blu-ray discs be any different?
It's not an issue of "should", but of what "is". DRM evolved in between introduction of DVDs and Bluray. DVDs are only SD. Content owners weren't about to allow HD Bluray content to be easily pirated, thus what Dylan wrote is what is, and enabling BR on Linux is an exponentially bigger PITA than any media gone before. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 27/04/14 18:20, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2014-04-27 17:58 (GMT+1000) Basil Chupin composed:
vlc is able to play DVDs, right? And it wouldn't be able to do so unless there were files available to be able to do so, right?
So why should playing Blu-ray discs be any different?
It's not an issue of "should", but of what "is". DRM evolved in between introduction of DVDs and Bluray. DVDs are only SD. Content owners weren't about to allow HD Bluray content to be easily pirated, thus what Dylan wrote is what is, and enabling BR on Linux is an exponentially bigger PITA than any media gone before.
You are simply playing around with what could be called semantics. In both instances the "protection" - just like the viruses - are cracked and means to circumvent them are found, often within hours. VLC works perfectly on my Windows 7 Professional. I downloaded VLC for W#7 directly from the VLC site. It was - as usual - a free download. VLC, which comes from videolan.org but massaged by whoever and which then comes from either packman or openSUSE, doesn't work with Bd discs. Why not? What would it take to make VLC work with Bd discs in openSUSE - $5/p.a. or $10/p.a. or $15/p.a.? Ok, I am happy to pay that. At the moment I am paying $0 to view Bd discs using VLC in Windows. Next point......... :-) . BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 01/05/2014 08:55, Basil Chupin a écrit :
At the moment I am paying $0 to view Bd discs using VLC in Windows.
you where paying windows and probably some BD key with it, most of the time given by the readers (harware) vendor shame is that we can't use it in linux jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/05/14 17:04, jdd wrote:
Le 01/05/2014 08:55, Basil Chupin a �crit :
At the moment I am paying $0 to view Bd discs using VLC in Windows.
you where paying windows and probably some BD key with it, most of the time given by the readers (harware) vendor
shame is that we can't use it in linux
Firstly, I did have to purchase a copy of Windows 7 Professional - and it cost less than price which I was paying for S.u.S.E. way back at about version #6 or #7. And this was when a $ was worth a $. Secondly, there is no "key" to the Bd discs which comes with Windows that I am aware of. (But I have to admit that I have never used the Media Player [don't think that I even have it installed] in Windows so cannot definitively confirm this; will check the next time I boot-into Windows to see if I do have Media Player installed.) Thirdly, see my other responses: I am happy to pay some annual fee to be able to view Bd discs on Linux. However, I do NOT accept the fact that some money grabbing enterprises have the right to impose these restrictions on the use of media especially when they pay exorbitant fees - and make exorbitant profits - for producing some B-grade movie which they then release on a DVD or a Bd disc. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 01/05/2014 09:23, Basil Chupin a écrit :
Firstly, I did have to purchase a copy of Windows 7 Professional - and it cost less than price which I was paying for S.u.S.E. way back at about version #6 or #7. And this was when a $ was worth a $.
full version (not update) cost much more than that, but usually one only pay the computer and oem windows price. computers without windows are usually €80 cheaper (when OS is sold separately) http://microsoft.entelechargement.com/windows/
Secondly, there is no "key" to the Bd discs which comes with Windows that I am aware of. (But I have to admit that I have never used the Media Player [don't think that I even have it installed] in Windows so cannot definitively confirm this; will check the next time I boot-into Windows to see if I do have Media Player installed.)
may not be in the player, but come with the hardware, like a codec or inside the codec. It's only a very small fee per BD reader. Fluendo did some paying for some kind of codecs, but few people seems to care about BD. Do you know there is *no* authoring application to make own BD in Linux? I *have* to use Windows to do this (thanksfully I can write data BD with mp4)!!
Thirdly, see my other responses: I am happy to pay some annual fee to be able to view Bd discs on Linux.
However, I do NOT accept the fact that some money grabbing enterprises have the right to impose these restrictions on the use of media especially when they pay exorbitant fees - and make exorbitant profits - for producing some B-grade movie which they then release on a DVD or a Bd disc.
BC
I fully agree with you. These closed codecs should never be standard, but this is out of our reach :-( jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/05/14 17:43, jdd wrote:
Le 01/05/2014 09:23, Basil Chupin a �crit :
Firstly, I did have to purchase a copy of Windows 7 Professional - and it cost less than price which I was paying for S.u.S.E. way back at about version #6 or #7. And this was when a $ was worth a $.
full version (not update) cost much more than that, but usually one only pay the computer and oem windows price. computers without windows are usually �80 cheaper (when OS is sold separately)
OK, I see that I will have to make it clearer. I paid for the FULL VERSION and not an upgrade - I didn't have anything to upgrade to begin with. The cost was as I already mentioned.
Secondly, there is no "key" to the Bd discs which comes with Windows that I am
aware of. (But I have to admit that I have never used the Media Player [don't think that I even have it installed] in Windows so cannot definitively confirm this; will check the next time I boot-into Windows to see if I do have Media Player installed.)
may not be in the player, but come with the hardware, like a codec or inside the codec. It's only a very small fee per BD reader. Fluendo did some paying for some kind of codecs, but few people seems to care about BD.
If that is the case - that the Bd player may include the payment for the Bd codecs - then why shouldn't VLC for Linux not be able to play Bd discs if this ability has already been paid for?
Do you know there is *no* authoring application to make own BD in Linux? I *have* to use Windows to do this (thanksfully I can write data BD with mp4)!!
So. Your point being........?
Thirdly, see my other responses: I am happy to pay some annual fee to be able
to view Bd discs on Linux.
However, I do NOT accept the fact that some money grabbing enterprises have the right to impose these restrictions on the use of media especially when they pay exorbitant fees - and make exorbitant profits - for producing some B-grade movie which they then release on a DVD or a Bd disc.
BC
I fully agree with you. These closed codecs should never be standard, but this is out of our reach :-(
Why out of our reach? We are the consumers and WE buy the products. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 01/05/2014 13:18, Basil Chupin a écrit :
Why out of our reach? We are the consumers and WE buy the products.
linux+bd consumers don't seems many... :-( jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/05/14 21:26, jdd wrote:
Le 01/05/2014 13:18, Basil Chupin a �crit :
Why out of our reach? We are the consumers and WE buy the products.
linux+bd consumers don't seems many... :-(
jdd
Sigh...... I know a defeatist when I see one....... FIGHT young man. FIGHT! Speak out! Be a Jedi! Resist the forces of the Dark Side! BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 27/04/14 08:58, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 27/04/14 17:42, Dylan wrote:
On 27/04/14 08:18, Basil Chupin wrote:
Well, I have the libaacs* files (also from packman) installed on 13.1 and which appear to be the same version number as the one(s) in Windows.
Since VLC for Windows comes from the same stable as the one for openSUSE then there must be another reason why vlc works perfectly in Windows but not in openSUSE (I don't know how it works in other distros).
VLC explicitly state they they *do not* distribute the aacs keys as part of the library (either for Linux or Windows.) Those that Windows clearly has access to must, therefore, come from somewhere else (M$ directly, seems a reasonable first assumption.) You might try looking for the key database file, KEYDB.cfg apparently, in your Windows installation, and stop blaming VLC for being 'broken' because it doesn't break a license which could lead leave it open to crippling legal action and cause a set of keys to be revoked.
More info at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/BluRay which is the first result when searching google for "aacs key linux"...
Thanks for this Dylan. I shall read the references you provide.
But lets' stop pretending and claiming piety and purity about this.
vlc is able to play DVDs, right? And it wouldn't be able to do so unless there were files available to be able to do so, right?
So why should playing Blu-ray discs be any different?
DVDs have one set of hard-coded keys which were cracked and published a long time ago - to revoke or change them would have required replacing or manually 'updating' every DVD player (not a viable option.) The IP holders learnt this lesson well and so Blu-ray has mechanisms for revoking/updating keys and certificates. Just because the DRM algorythm is public domain, doesn't mean the keys are generally available. It's not a matter of piety and purity - VLC have decided not to get involved in the key revoking/cracking/resetting cat-and-mouse game, that's all. There are places you can find to download key files to use, but the legality of doing so is doubtful. Dx -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
DVDs have one set of hard-coded keys which were cracked and published a long time ago - to revoke or change them would have required replacing or manually 'updating' every DVD player (not a viable option.) The IP holders learnt this lesson well and so Blu-ray has mechanisms for revoking/updating keys and certificates. Just because the DRM algorythm is public domain, doesn't mean the keys are generally available.
It's not a matter of piety and purity - VLC have decided not to get involved in the key revoking/cracking/resetting cat-and-mouse game, that's all. There are places you can find to download key files to use, but the legality of doing so is doubtful.
Dx
Interesting topic :) So why is VLC Windows allowed to get access to these keys but not VLC Linux? I have trouble to imagine, that Microsoft is paying fees to all the BlueRay producers... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 27/04/14 10:47, Karl Sinn wrote:
DVDs have one set of hard-coded keys which were cracked and published a long time ago - to revoke or change them would have required replacing or manually 'updating' every DVD player (not a viable option.) The IP holders learnt this lesson well and so Blu-ray has mechanisms for revoking/updating keys and certificates. Just because the DRM algorythm is public domain, doesn't mean the keys are generally available.
It's not a matter of piety and purity - VLC have decided not to get involved in the key revoking/cracking/resetting cat-and-mouse game, that's all. There are places you can find to download key files to use, but the legality of doing so is doubtful.
Dx
Interesting topic :)
So why is VLC Windows allowed to get access to these keys but not VLC Linux?
VLC for Linux *is* 'allowed' access to the keys, if you have them - it just doesn't distribute them.
I have trouble to imagine, that Microsoft is paying fees to all the BlueRay producers...
The license fee would be included in the cost of Windows (or OSX, for that matter)... or maybe they come with a Blu-ray drive, or via some other route. Anyway, I'd be surprised if M$ doesn't own at least some of the relevant IP, in which case it would be under some cross licensing arrangement or other. The license fee doesn't go to the Blu-ray producers, it goes to the owners of the IP defining Blu-ray. The production companies have to pay it too (and thus the consumer in the cost of each disc bought...)
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
So why is VLC Windows allowed to get access to these keys but not VLC Linux?
VLC for Linux *is* 'allowed' access to the keys, if you have them - it just doesn't distribute them.
I have trouble to imagine, that Microsoft is paying fees to all the BlueRay producers...
The license fee would be included in the cost of Windows (or OSX, for that matter)... or maybe they come with a Blu-ray drive, or via some other route. Anyway, I'd be surprised if M$ doesn't own at least some of the relevant IP, in which case it would be under some cross licensing arrangement or other.
The license fee doesn't go to the Blu-ray producers, it goes to the owners of the IP defining Blu-ray. The production companies have to pay it too (and thus the consumer in the cost of each disc bought...)
OK, I see. But in this case it's even more silly, that all the cost is not payed by buying the material and the access keys being distributed freely to all Hardware owners. I guess it's al about the tricky game of how to make a lot of money. Thanks for your answers. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 27/04/14 11:20, Karl Sinn wrote:
So why is VLC Windows allowed to get access to these keys but not VLC Linux?
VLC for Linux *is* 'allowed' access to the keys, if you have them - it just doesn't distribute them.
I have trouble to imagine, that Microsoft is paying fees to all the BlueRay producers...
The license fee would be included in the cost of Windows (or OSX, for that matter)... or maybe they come with a Blu-ray drive, or via some other route. Anyway, I'd be surprised if M$ doesn't own at least some of the relevant IP, in which case it would be under some cross licensing arrangement or other.
The license fee doesn't go to the Blu-ray producers, it goes to the owners of the IP defining Blu-ray. The production companies have to pay it too (and thus the consumer in the cost of each disc bought...)
OK, I see. But in this case it's even more silly, that all the cost is not payed by buying the material and the access keys being distributed freely to all Hardware owners.
I guess it's al about the tricky game of how to make a lot of money.
Well, yes - and the perceived imperative to prevent piracy: if the keys are known then the content producers can't control the ability to copy discs. This is also why streaming services like to use proprietary (often Windows-only) players for their content, or take steps to prevent media download by other means. There have even been attempts in various jurisdictions to make it illegal to distribute 'free' (GPL, Creative commons, Copyleft etc.) material of any kind. This sort of thing is always presented as "protecting the artist" but in reality is about protecting profits. Dx -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 27/04/14 20:35, Dylan wrote:
On 27/04/14 11:20, Karl Sinn wrote:
So why is VLC Windows allowed to get access to these keys but not VLC Linux?
VLC for Linux *is* 'allowed' access to the keys, if you have them - it just doesn't distribute them.
I have trouble to imagine, that Microsoft is paying fees to all the BlueRay producers...
The license fee would be included in the cost of Windows (or OSX, for that matter)... or maybe they come with a Blu-ray drive, or via some other route. Anyway, I'd be surprised if M$ doesn't own at least some of the relevant IP, in which case it would be under some cross licensing arrangement or other.
The license fee doesn't go to the Blu-ray producers, it goes to the owners of the IP defining Blu-ray. The production companies have to pay it too (and thus the consumer in the cost of each disc bought...)
OK, I see. But in this case it's even more silly, that all the cost is not payed by buying the material and the access keys being distributed freely to all Hardware owners.
I guess it's al about the tricky game of how to make a lot of money.
Well, yes - and the perceived imperative to prevent piracy: if the keys are known then the content producers can't control the ability to copy discs. This is also why streaming services like to use proprietary (often Windows-only) players for their content, or take steps to prevent media download by other means.
There have even been attempts in various jurisdictions to make it illegal to distribute 'free' (GPL, Creative commons, Copyleft etc.) material of any kind. This sort of thing is always presented as "protecting the artist" . but in reality is about protecting profits.
"but in reality is about protecting profits." DING! Give the man a cigar!:-D BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-04-27 12:08, Dylan wrote:
On 27/04/14 10:47, Karl Sinn wrote:
So why is VLC Windows allowed to get access to these keys but not VLC Linux?
VLC for Linux *is* 'allowed' access to the keys, if you have them - it just doesn't distribute them.
But how do you get them in Windows? Maybe if Windows has them, you can copy them to the Linux partition? Assuming they are files. The wiki article you pointed to says: +++·············· If libaacs finds a valid processing key for the disc MKB version as well as a valid Host key and certificates, it can start the decryption process from step 2. However, the Host key/certificates are regularly revoked through the propagation of new BluRay discs. Once revoked, a drive is not able to read both new and older discs. This is usually irreversible and can only be fixed by providing a more recent Host key/certificate (for Windows users, this corresponds to updating their software player). ··············++- So, windows users get key updates by updating their software player - as long as that player is not VLC. I assume that it is some player "in the game", perhaps the one that came with the bluray unit. OR... maybe vlc people do not, but some other party packages vlc for windows with the keys "stolen" :-? I have no idea about this, I do not have a bluray unit. I refuse to buy them, expensive and I don't see the advantage. But maybe someday I'll have to... so I'm curious. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Le 27/04/2014 14:27, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
On 2014-04-27 12:08, Dylan wrote:
On 27/04/14 10:47, Karl Sinn wrote:
So why is VLC Windows allowed to get access to these keys but not VLC Linux? VLC for Linux *is* 'allowed' access to the keys, if you have them - it just doesn't distribute them. But how do you get them in Windows? Maybe if Windows has them, you can copy them to the Linux partition? Assuming they are files.
The wiki article you pointed to says:
+++·············· If libaacs finds a valid processing key for the disc MKB version as well as a valid Host key and certificates, it can start the decryption process from step 2. However, the Host key/certificates are regularly revoked through the propagation of new BluRay discs. Once revoked, a drive is not able to read both new and older discs. This is usually irreversible and can only be fixed by providing a more recent Host key/certificate (for Windows users, this corresponds to updating their software player). ··············++-
So, windows users get key updates by updating their software player - as long as that player is not VLC. I assume that it is some player "in the game", perhaps the one that came with the bluray unit.
OR... maybe vlc people do not, but some other party packages vlc for windows with the keys "stolen" :-?
I have no idea about this, I do not have a bluray unit. I refuse to buy them, expensive and I don't see the advantage. But maybe someday I'll have to... so I'm curious.
@Basil : I agree with Carlos, I do not use DVD/Blu-ray disks any longer. I'm pretty sure the movie you want to play is available on the network. -- : ` _..-=-=-=-.._.--. Dsant, from Lyon, France `-._ ___,..-'" -~~` __') forum@votreservice.com jgs `'"---'"`>>"'~~"~"~~>>'` =====================```========```======== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2014-04-29 a las 15:04 +0200, Dsant escribió:
Le 27/04/2014 14:27, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
I have no idea about this, I do not have a bluray unit. I refuse to buy them, expensive and I don't see the advantage. But maybe someday I'll have to... so I'm curious.
@Basil : I agree with Carlos, I do not use DVD/Blu-ray disks any longer. I'm pretty sure the movie you want to play is available on the network.
Well, that was not my exact meaning :-) I meant that why buy a blueray that has no benefit to me, when I can instead buy a dvd that has a wonderful visual quality, more than my hardware can handle. - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlNgS7gACgkQja8UbcUWM1w7wQD7B9W5IJKtSxXB2F/sfLzzufP2 YIjJOONC8CIc6yJjJ5kBAJAUF9upbxXZ0c2/1EpC+NlYXAbxHJXelUTv8G0P/hFg =DRTL -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 30/04/14 11:02, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
El 2014-04-29 a las 15:04 +0200, Dsant escribió:
Le 27/04/2014 14:27, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
I have no idea about this, I do not have a bluray unit. I refuse to buy them, expensive and I don't see the advantage. But maybe someday I'll have to... so I'm curious.
@Basil : I agree with Carlos, I do not use DVD/Blu-ray disks any longer. I'm pretty sure the movie you want to play is available on the network.
Well, that was not my exact meaning :-)
I meant that why buy a blueray that has no benefit to me, when I can instead buy a dvd that has a wonderful visual quality, more than my hardware can handle.
Which is a fair comment.And this is something which you should mention when responding to posts. But there are those who don't have a 32-bit system nor have dial-up access to broadband - I say this just as examples and which it is not intended to reflect on your possible situation. One has to take those people into consideration, right? BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-01 10:40, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 30/04/14 11:02, Carlos E. R. wrote:
@Basil : I agree with Carlos, I do not use DVD/Blu-ray disks any longer. I'm pretty sure the movie you want to play is available on the network.
Well, that was not my exact meaning :-)
I meant that why buy a blueray that has no benefit to me, when I can instead buy a dvd that has a wonderful visual quality, more than my hardware can handle.
Which is a fair comment.And this is something which you should mention when responding to posts. But there are those who don't have a 32-bit system nor have dial-up access to broadband - I say this just as examples and which it is not intended to reflect on your possible situation. One has to take those people into consideration, right?
I never proposed to download those movies. Yes, you can download them "for free .-)", and it is even legal in my country. With firm court sentences supporting this, not just some kiddie speech. But nowhere at blueray quality. DVD, yes, if you find them. Usually worse resolution, good enough for TV serials and 20" displays. Watching 2001? Nay. But I was not proposing that. I simply said that DVDs are good enough for most people, certainly for me. Far easier to use, no DRM crap. I wish they made them cheaper, though. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 01/05/14 19:39, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-05-01 10:40, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 30/04/14 11:02, Carlos E. R. wrote:
@Basil : I agree with Carlos, I do not use DVD/Blu-ray disks any longer. I'm pretty sure the movie you want to play is available on the network. Well, that was not my exact meaning :-)
I meant that why buy a blueray that has no benefit to me, when I can instead buy a dvd that has a wonderful visual quality, more than my hardware can handle. Which is a fair comment.And this is something which you should mention when responding to posts. But there are those who don't have a 32-bit system nor have dial-up access to broadband - I say this just as examples and which it is not intended to reflect on your possible situation. One has to take those people into consideration, right? I never proposed to download those movies.
I wasn't suggesting that that is what you stated.
Yes, you can download them "for free .-)", and it is even legal in my country. With firm court sentences supporting this, not just some kiddie speech. But nowhere at blueray quality. DVD, yes, if you find them. Usually worse resolution, good enough for TV serials and 20" displays. Watching 2001? Nay.
But I was not proposing that. I simply said that DVDs are good enough for most people, certainly for me. Far easier to use, no DRM crap. I wish they made them cheaper, though.
As I said, a fair enough comment. Horses for courses. Whatever makes you happy. I am not against this. But being able to view the same movie which is on a DVD and which is also on a Blu-ray disc is like cheese and chalk. Or like having a glass of grappa just off the still yesterday and a 25-year old single-malt Glenfiddich whisky :-) . BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 29/04/14 23:04, Dsant wrote:
Le 27/04/2014 14:27, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
On 2014-04-27 12:08, Dylan wrote:
On 27/04/14 10:47, Karl Sinn wrote:
So why is VLC Windows allowed to get access to these keys but not VLC Linux? VLC for Linux *is* 'allowed' access to the keys, if you have them - it just doesn't distribute them. But how do you get them in Windows? Maybe if Windows has them, you can copy them to the Linux partition? Assuming they are files.
The wiki article you pointed to says:
+++·············· If libaacs finds a valid processing key for the disc MKB version as well as a valid Host key and certificates, it can start the decryption process from step 2. However, the Host key/certificates are regularly revoked through the propagation of new BluRay discs. Once revoked, a drive is not able to read both new and older discs. This is usually irreversible and can only be fixed by providing a more recent Host key/certificate (for Windows users, this corresponds to updating their software player). ··············++-
So, windows users get key updates by updating their software player - as long as that player is not VLC. I assume that it is some player "in the game", perhaps the one that came with the bluray unit.
OR... maybe vlc people do not, but some other party packages vlc for windows with the keys "stolen" :-?
I have no idea about this, I do not have a bluray unit. I refuse to buy them, expensive and I don't see the advantage. But maybe someday I'll have to... so I'm curious.
@Basil : I agree with Carlos, I do not use DVD/Blu-ray disks any longer. I'm pretty sure the movie you want to play is available on the network.
Ce`? You agree with Carlos, and you want me to pirate it using the "network"?! BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Basil Chupin
You agree with Carlos, and you want me to pirate it using the "network"?!
Climb down, Basil. You are only showing ignorance. You are already "pirating" just by using vlc or any other *nix app to listen to mp3s or watch video. They are protected/drm. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 27/04/14 22:27, Carlos E. R. wrote: [pruned]
I have no idea about this, I do not have a bluray unit. I refuse to buy them, expensive and I don't see the advantage. But maybe someday I'll have to... so I'm curious.
Blu-ray is equivalent to watching something when you had CGA graphics to what you now see using VGA. Or, a better example, is what you had when using daguerreotype camera systems for photography to what you now have using digital photography cameras at 20+MB pixels. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 01/05/2014 10:01, Basil Chupin a écrit :
Blu-ray is equivalent to watching something when you had CGA graphics to what you now see using VGA.
not that true on my 117 cm TV it's pretty difficult to make any difference between BD and good dvd jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/05/14 18:08, jdd wrote:
Le 01/05/2014 10:01, Basil Chupin a �crit :
Blu-ray is equivalent to watching something when you had CGA graphics to what you now see using VGA.
not that true
on my 117 cm TV it's pretty difficult to make any difference between BD and good dvd
jdd
I am guessing that you have a great need for an eye test and then having spectacles prescribed :-) . BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 01/05/2014 10:50, Basil Chupin a écrit :
On 01/05/14 18:08, jdd wrote:
Le 01/05/2014 10:01, Basil Chupin a �crit :
Blu-ray is equivalent to watching something when you had CGA graphics to what you now see using VGA.
not that true
on my 117 cm TV it's pretty difficult to make any difference between BD and good dvd
jdd
I am guessing that you have a great need for an eye test and then having spectacles prescribed :-) .
BC
no, I simply avoid being at less than 1 m from the (tv) screen. I do many videos myself and use many 12000 bitrate mp4, very difficult to make a difference from th dvd made with same video at 6000, as from the raw HD 24000 from camcorder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_acuity#Normal_vision jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/05/14 19:04, jdd wrote:
Le 01/05/2014 10:50, Basil Chupin a écrit :
On 01/05/14 18:08, jdd wrote:
Le 01/05/2014 10:01, Basil Chupin a �crit :
Blu-ray is equivalent to watching something when you had CGA graphics to what you now see using VGA.
not that true
on my 117 cm TV it's pretty difficult to make any difference between BD and good dvd
jdd
I am guessing that you have a great need for an eye test and then having spectacles prescribed :-) .
BC
no, I simply avoid being at less than 1 m from the (tv) screen.
I have always sat a least 800-900 mm away from a monitor. I cannot accept sitting any closer.
I do many videos myself and use many 12000 bitrate mp4, very difficult to make a difference from th dvd made with same video at 6000, as from the raw HD 24000 from camcorder.
But this does not mean that you wouldn't notice the obvious difference between a DVD and a Blu-ray disc. Don't accept my word for it. Find someone with a Blu-ray player (a Bd player is capable of playing a normal DVD), hire a copy of the same movie on DVD and on Bd disc and watch both. Then come back and tell that there is no difference :-) . BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 01/05/2014 11:59, Basil Chupin a écrit :
Don't accept my word for it. Find someone with a Blu-ray player (a Bd player is capable of playing a normal DVD), hire a copy of the same movie on DVD and on Bd disc and watch both. Then come back and tell that there is no difference
I have often. I build myself Blu-Ray disks for at least 3 years, now, I have BD readers all over my house and a writer on my desk. I even can look at original video (directly from the camcorder). most of the time the difference is barely noticable, and only if you can see the two version just one after the other. But I speak of *video*, not still images, and *TV* screen (117 cm in my case), not computer monitors of course as much you get close to the screen as more the difference is notice also I speak of High quality dvd, that is approx 70 minutes long max per dvd (simple density, double density are curent printed, but not reliable burned) most of the time the original movie is not that good either. making a good HD movie needs filming with at least 4K cameras and only rich production can afford that. I think also than most producer produce film with the dvd as objective and films are from the beginning done to make this better (lords of the rings, for example is extremely good in dvd version) BD become nearly mandatory for 3D movies but we are far from openSUSE, now :-( jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/05/14 20:11, jdd wrote:
Le 01/05/2014 11:59, Basil Chupin a �crit :
Don't accept my word for it. Find someone with a Blu-ray player (a Bd player is capable of playing a normal DVD), hire a copy of the same movie on DVD and on Bd disc and watch both. Then come back and tell that there is no difference
I have often. I build myself Blu-Ray disks for at least 3 years, now, I have BD readers all over my house and a writer on my desk.
I even can look at original video (directly from the camcorder).
most of the time the difference is barely noticable, and only if you can see the two version just one after the other.
But I speak of *video*, not still images, and *TV* screen (117 cm in my case), not computer monitors
of course as much you get close to the screen as more the difference is
notice also I speak of High quality dvd, that is approx 70 minutes long max per dvd (simple density, double density are curent printed, but not reliable burned)
most of the time the original movie is not that good either.
making a good HD movie needs filming with at least 4K cameras and only rich production can afford that.
I think also than most producer produce film with the dvd as objective and films are from the beginning done to make this better (lords of the rings, for example is extremely good in dvd version)
BD become nearly mandatory for 3D movies
but we are far from openSUSE, now :-(
Well, no. We are talking about VLC not being able to play Bd discs in openSUSE but is able to play Bd discs in Windows. And I am still to find the answer as to why VLC cannot play Bd discs in openSUSE. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 01/05/2014 13:35, Basil Chupin a écrit :
And I am still to find the answer as to why VLC cannot play Bd discs in openSUSE.
wasn't this link already given? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/BluRay jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/05/14 21:39, jdd wrote:
Le 01/05/2014 13:35, Basil Chupin a �crit :
And I am still to find the answer as to why VLC cannot play Bd discs in openSUSE.
wasn't this link already given?
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/BluRay
jdd
Can't remember - you've sidetracked me so many times that I now do not remember :-D . I'll check it out. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/05/14 12:35, Basil Chupin wrote: Did you change your surname from Fawlty at some point?
And I am still to find the answer as to why VLC cannot play Bd discs in openSUSE.
You have been told several times: *YOU NEED THE KEYS - THEY ARE NOT DISTRIBUTED WITH VLC THIS IS _NOT_ A VLC PROBLEM IT IS A _CHUPIN_ PROBLEM* - they are (manifestly) available in your Windows installation and a link has been posted more than once which tells you the name and location of the file, and where it needs to go in your Linux installation. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/05/14 21:53, Dylan wrote:
On 01/05/14 12:35, Basil Chupin wrote:
Did you change your surname from Fawlty at some point?
And I am still to find the answer as to why VLC cannot play Bd discs in openSUSE.
You have been told several times: *YOU NEED THE KEYS - THEY ARE NOT DISTRIBUTED WITH VLC THIS IS _NOT_ A VLC PROBLEM IT IS A _CHUPIN_ PROBLEM* - they are (manifestly) available in your Windows installation and a link has been posted more than once which tells you the name and location of the file, and where it needs to go in your Linux installation.
As a matter of fact, a while back I had been at that "secret place" where the "key" is hidden but the "key" is totally useless (for me at least when I tried it). BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-01 19:59 (GMT+1000) Basil Chupin composed:
Don't accept my word for it. Find someone with a Blu-ray player (a Bd player is capable of playing a normal DVD), hire a copy of the same movie on DVD and on Bd disc and watch both. Then come back and tell that there is no difference :-) .
Without a big enough TV and good enough eyes, the difference can easily be beyond discernable. I do side by sides all the time here, because I get the same 1080 satellite feeds that CBS (18GB/hr) and NBC (10GB/hr) affiliates use for broadcasting. The difference is there, but without seeing both at once side by side, it's tough to care about the small difference apparent without a big enough TV. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/05/14 20:40, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2014-05-01 19:59 (GMT+1000) Basil Chupin composed:
Don't accept my word for it. Find someone with a Blu-ray player (a Bd player is capable of playing a normal DVD), hire a copy of the same movie on DVD and on Bd disc and watch both. Then come back and tell that there is no difference :-) .
Without a big enough TV and good enough eyes, the difference can easily be beyond discernable. I do side by sides all the time here, because I get the same 1080 satellite feeds that CBS (18GB/hr) and NBC (10GB/hr) affiliates use for broadcasting. The difference is there, but without seeing both at once side by side, it's tough to care about the small difference apparent without a big enough TV.
The size of the TV is not the reason. In fact, the bigger the TV the worse the image will be. All depends on the resolution and the make of the TV. Go to a website with pictures. Capture a picture using, say, KSnapshot and save it. Use Glenview to look at the image in its saved state. Then view it in Full Screen mode. See any difference? The other thing is that TV transmission are more often than not c***. Re this, digital TV - which we now have have in Australia - is far better than the analogue TV we had before. But, nevertheless, most of the TV programs, even though transmitted now in digital, are c*** because they were never made for digital TV. There is the occasional program which was specifically made for digital TV and it really stands out versus any program made for analogue TV. (And, in our case here in Australia, this mostly consists of American c*** programs which are repeats of American programs made anything between 30 and 50 years ago - so you can guess what THEY look like!) BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/01/2014 05:40 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
Without a big enough TV and good enough eyes, the difference can easily be beyond discernable. I do side by sides all the time here, because I get the same 1080 satellite feeds that CBS (18GB/hr) and NBC (10GB/hr) affiliates use for broadcasting. The difference is there, but without seeing both at once side by side, it's tough to care about the small difference apparent without a big enough TV.
If your watching the "raw feeds" the image quality will blow you away. "Raw feeds" is the video that comes straight from the source of live programs. This is direct from the satellite uplink to the main production studio. [ you also miss all the commercials ] Once it gets to the main production studio it starts losing quality fast. The video processing equipment adds what is called "compression". Everytime they add something to the image, like the name of the person on screen it adds more "compression" so video quality degrades. NBC and CBS send their feeds at 1080i. ABC [ US ] only does 720i. You can't broadcast "p", way to much bandwidth. The station feeds are cleaner than the signal over the air because the processing equipment at the station adds even more "compression". By the time you get your signal from your local station the video quality has basically gone to crap. One other thing. Local stations can control the amount of bandwidth on any of their channels. Our station in Wichita has eight channels on the air, 43.1 through 43.8, on one transmitter. we allocate bandwidth by "channel" based on what the programing is for that channel. Our best channel, 24/7 movies, has the best bandwidth and the picture quality is "very good". Our next two "best channels", Ebru and Mi Casa, have just slightly less bandwidth and still quite good quality. The others are "good" quality. All are very clear and watchable. On an "average" TV you wouldn't even notice the difference. -- I may be crazy, but crazy is better than stupid. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/01/2014 03:50 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 01/05/14 18:08, jdd wrote:
Le 01/05/2014 10:01, Basil Chupin a �crit :
Blu-ray is equivalent to watching something when you had CGA graphics to what you now see using VGA.
not that true
on my 117 cm TV it's pretty difficult to make any difference between BD and good dvd
jdd
I am guessing that you have a great need for an eye test and then having spectacles prescribed :-) .
BC
A lot depends on the resolution the TV is capable of and the refresh method, i or p. Also what player your using. A 720i capable television may not show much difference. Even a 180i will still leave something to be desired in some ways. For the absolute best you have to have a television capable of 1080p. Playing a DVD on a DVD player will never give you the absolute best viewing quality even on the best TV. Playing one on a BD player is better but not absolute best. A Blueray at 1080p IS the best. -- I may be crazy, but crazy is better than stupid. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2014-05-01 at 07:47 -0500, Billie Walsh wrote:
A Blueray at 1080p IS the best.
Hi If we copied the files from a blueray disk to a usb stick and played them with vlc, would we get the same quality? Or is there something else on a blueray that we don't know about? No one I know has blueray. Isn't it just a dvd with more gb? Sorry in advance. L x -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/05/14 09:36, lynn wrote:
On Thu, 2014-05-01 at 07:47 -0500, Billie Walsh wrote:
A Blueray at 1080p IS the best.
Hi If we copied the files from a blueray disk to a usb stick and played them with vlc, would we get the same quality?
You still wouldn't be able to play the files because the contents are encrypted with the AACS keys and certificates. If you can get VLC to play them, it may be able to extract the contents in the same way it does with DVDs, but the decoding-recoding cycle would degrade the image quality just as it does when extracting DVDs.
Or is there something else on a blueray that we don't know about? No one I know has blueray. Isn't it just a dvd with more gb?
The disc itself is (at a simplified basic level) a higher capacity DVD (it uses a blue 'laser' rather than the red one that DVD uses - hence the name - and the shorter wavelength allows higher data density.) The extra capacity allows the media files stored on the disc to be encoded at a higher resolution and bit-rate than DVD and they are usually encrypted with AACS. There can also be scripted content on the disc to control menus and 'extras'. Dx -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-03 11:01, Dylan wrote:
You still wouldn't be able to play the files because the contents are encrypted with the AACS keys and certificates. If you can get VLC to play them, it may be able to extract the contents in the same way it does with DVDs, but the decoding-recoding cycle would degrade the image quality just as it does when extracting DVDs.
You can rip the data from a DVD without recoding, just decrypt. No quality loss. The recoding is done to reduce file size further, the DVD data was too large to fit into a single DVD as burned on computers. But you do not need to do it if you do not want to, hard disks are large enough. I guess that a similar situation applies to blurays. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 05/03/2014 03:36 AM, lynn wrote:
A Blueray at 1080p IS the best. Hi If we copied the files from a blueray disk to a usb stick and played
On Thu, 2014-05-01 at 07:47 -0500, Billie Walsh wrote: them with vlc, would we get the same quality? Or is there something else on a blueray that we don't know about? No one I know has blueray. Isn't it just a dvd with more gb? Sorry in advance. L x
Those extra gigabytes allow more data. More data allows much more image information. The other half of the equation is the all important "p". Normal television, "i", is interlaced. That means the picture on the screen has every other line rewritten every pass. This happens at sixty times a second and your eyes can't really see that half the picture doesn't match the other half. This is how the motion is created. What this interlacing does lead to is a certain amount of fuzziness to the picture. The "p", and don't ask what the p stands for, is like a movie screen. A series of still images, each completely replacing the previous image. "p" rewites the entire screen every pass. There is no interlacing fuzziness. Every line is absolutely sharp and crisp. Some manufacturers, at least in the early switchover to digital, made some TV's that were "i" only, and not full 1080. Your television, video system on your computer, has to be capable of the full 1080p to get the best effect. If you've never experienced 1080p of a honking big screen.....................I'm sorry. I suppose that in theory it would be possible to copy to a thumb drive and watch, but all the same DRM restrictions would still bite you in the posterior. I've seen many movies that come as a two disk set. One DVD and one Blueray. -- I may be crazy, but crazy is better than stupid. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/03/2014 04:30 PM, James Knott wrote:
Billie Walsh wrote:
The "p", and don't ask what the p stands for The "p" means progressive scan, which starts at the top and writes the whole screen in one pass.
Now I know. thanks. -- I may be crazy, but crazy is better than stupid. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-03 13:53, Billie Walsh wrote:
Normal television, "i", is interlaced. That means the picture on the screen has every other line rewritten every pass. This happens at sixty times a second and your eyes can't really see that half the picture doesn't match the other half. This is how the motion is created. What this interlacing does lead to is a certain amount of fuzziness to the picture.
No, interlacing is done for a different reason. When TV was invented, they decided to do it a 30 pictures per second (in the USA; in Europe it was 25). This was somewhat slow and there was some noticiable flicker, so what they did was first display the odd lines on 1/60 of a second, and then display the even lines on the next 1/60 second (1/50 in Europe). Thus the apparent flicker frequency was doubled, and the eye noticed it less. This technique was called "interlacing". (That the frequency is the same of the local mains is not coincidental at all) The projected film on theatres use a similar trick: they put one picture on the projector, switch on the light (so to speak), switch it off, then on again, then off, then move to the next picture. 24 pictures per second, but 48 apparent flickers. Current digital displays can display pictures at a real frame rate of 60 Hz or more, so interlacing is not needed anymore - except to reduce actual frame rate and size, perhaps. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 2014-05-01 04:01 (GMT-0400) Basil Chupin composed:
Blu-ray is equivalent to watching something when you had CGA graphics to what you now see using VGA.
Or, a better example, is what you had when using daguerreotype camera systems for photography to what you now have using digital photography cameras at 20+MB pixels.
That can be appreciated only if your eyes are of the type that do not find most web sites specify mousetype instead of legible text. For those with visual acuity half or less than they had as teenagers, any quality beyond about 480 tends to be undiscernable unless the TV is twice recommended size for seating distance, or bigger. IOW, for many, DVD quality is as good as can be fully appreciated. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-01 10:15, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2014-05-01 04:01 (GMT-0400) Basil Chupin composed:
Blu-ray is equivalent to watching something when you had CGA graphics to what you now see using VGA.
Or, a better example, is what you had when using daguerreotype camera systems for photography to what you now have using digital photography cameras at 20+MB pixels.
That can be appreciated only if your eyes are of the type that do not find most web sites specify mousetype instead of legible text. For those with visual acuity half or less than they had as teenagers, any quality beyond about 480 tends to be undiscernable unless the TV is twice recommended size for seating distance, or bigger. IOW, for many, DVD quality is as good as can be fully appreciated.
The best TV in my house does at most 1920x1080 pixels, and all are smaller than 30 inches in diagonal. The 1080 resolution is what they call "Full HD" definition here (heck, I still have old CRTs doing double that resolution at smaller screen size). The term "Full HD" implies that they don't make them any better (!). Some people have huge displays on the sitting room larger than a meter or two wide (sorry, I don't know how many inches the diagonal may have). Even if I could afford one, I have no place to put it, I would have to redo the entire sitting room. And I would have to put the books somewhere else. You know, those musty paper things that some people can still read :-p Thus I get no advantage at all with the increased quality of Bluray disks. I would only get headaches trying to play them, with this DRM madness. Maybe if I could use them for data backup... but a write unit is expensive, I have unclear mind about Linux support, and even less about long term durability of the data (archival quality). And at the price of burner and media... no thanks, plain HDs are cheaper. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 01/05/14 19:27, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-05-01 10:15, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2014-05-01 04:01 (GMT-0400) Basil Chupin composed:
Blu-ray is equivalent to watching something when you had CGA graphics to what you now see using VGA. Or, a better example, is what you had when using daguerreotype camera systems for photography to what you now have using digital photography cameras at 20+MB pixels. That can be appreciated only if your eyes are of the type that do not find most web sites specify mousetype instead of legible text. For those with visual acuity half or less than they had as teenagers, any quality beyond about 480 tends to be undiscernable unless the TV is twice recommended size for seating distance, or bigger. IOW, for many, DVD quality is as good as can be fully appreciated. The best TV in my house does at most 1920x1080 pixels, and all are smaller than 30 inches in diagonal.
Ah, this explains a lot about your comments.
The 1080 resolution is what they call "Full HD" definition here (heck, I still have old CRTs doing double that resolution at smaller screen size). The term "Full HD" implies that they don't make them any better (!).
Some people have huge displays on the sitting room larger than a meter or two wide (sorry, I don't know how many inches the diagonal may have). Even if I could afford one, I have no place to put it, I would have to redo the entire sitting room. And I would have to put the books somewhere else. You know, those musty paper things that some people can still read :-p
Thus I get no advantage at all with the increased quality of Bluray disks. I would only get headaches trying to play them, with this DRM madness.
This "DRM madness" has nothing to do with it because you won't get any headaches. The only thing is not to buy any Bd player which is made by Sony.
Maybe if I could use them for data backup... but a write unit is expensive, I have unclear mind about Linux support, and even less about long term durability of the data (archival quality). And at the price of burner and media... no thanks, plain HDs are cheaper.
Now we come down to the nitty-gritty....... A Blu-ray PLAYER I can buy here in Australia (at a place which is not exactly cheap) for $A89 (60 Euros) [http://www.computeronline.com.au/products.php?C_ID=6&S_ID=59] and a player/burner I can buy here for $A110 (74 Euros) [http://www.computeronline.com.au/products.php?C_ID=6&S_ID=43]. But as you would know all computer items are cheaper elsewhere. And regarding using Bd discs for archiving, there are 2 brands which are warranted to store data for 100+years. At least this was so some years ago but what other brands now have the same warranty I don't know. I only use one of these brands: Verbatim discs - provided that they are manufactured in either Japan, Taiwan or Singapore. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/05/14 18:15, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2014-05-01 04:01 (GMT-0400) Basil Chupin composed:
Blu-ray is equivalent to watching something when you had CGA graphics to what you now see using VGA.
Or, a better example, is what you had when using daguerreotype camera systems for photography to what you now have using digital photography cameras at 20+MB pixels.
That can be appreciated only if your eyes are of the type that do not find most web sites specify mousetype instead of legible text. For those with visual acuity half or less than they had as teenagers, any quality beyond about 480 tends to be undiscernable unless the TV is twice recommended size for seating distance, or bigger. IOW, for many, DVD quality is as good as can be fully appreciated.
True. Some people go thru life not even knowing that their sight is not 20/20 and therefore accept what they see - or don't see because they don't see it - as being normal and what everybody else is also seeing. As we age the lenses in our eyes, for example, become affected by ultraviolet rays and they start to see things in a sepia colour. But when the lenses are replaced, thru cataract surgery, EVERYTHING you see then becomes CRYSTAL clear and BLUISH in colour ) I guess because of the ultraviolet rays). I know, been there, done that. And as far as the TV or even the monitor is concerned, the last 2 monitors I have used had 1920x1080 resolution and were only capable of handling sRGB colours. My new 27" monitor handles 2560x1440 resolution and 99% of the full Adobe colour range (some 1.07 billion 10-bit colours). If you think that this does not make a difference to what appears on the screen, then try and see for yourself. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 01/05/2014 11:49, Basil Chupin a écrit :
does not make a difference to what appears on the screen, then try and see for yourself.
for computer work, sure, but for movies? do you know digital movie projection (in true cinemas) is only 1920x1080? (in fact just a bit more, true 2k, but the difference is null) at 25 i/s, most movie is blurred anyway :-( jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-01 11:53, jdd wrote:
Le 01/05/2014 11:49, Basil Chupin a écrit :
for computer work, sure, but for movies?
do you know digital movie projection (in true cinemas) is only 1920x1080? (in fact just a bit more, true 2k, but the difference is null)
Only that? What a shame. I read recently that the digital master of a movie is some petabytes in size. It is so big an unwieldy to copy (just consider transfer datarate of gigabyte network; even fiber is slow), that for archival they store film copies, one tape per colour (ie, each film is B/W), and keep 3 copies of each, on different buildings, I hope. Meaning 9 B/W film "rolls". They do not trust digital copies. They have to be recreated every five years or so, worst that papyrus. Digital archives are very expensive to keep... Those 9 rolls above are cheaper by a order of 10 or so, and last a century, proven. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Le 01/05/2014 12:15, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
cheaper by a order of 10 or so, and last a century, proven.
urban legend and such storage have a price that adds each year, when digital copies price decrease so many films have been lost... jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/05/14 19:53, jdd wrote:
Le 01/05/2014 11:49, Basil Chupin a �crit :
does not make a difference to what appears on the screen, then try and see for yourself.
for computer work, sure, but for movies?
I do not watch TV or DVDs or BD discs on a TV set. I only watch the above on my computer monitor. My wife and I have different tastes so she has the LG big screen TV in the lounge to watch whatever she wants to watch while I watch whatever I want on the computer monitor. Do, in answer to your comment - I only watch DVD/Bd discs on the computer monitor.
do you know digital movie projection (in true cinemas) is only 1920x1080? (in fact just a bit more, true 2k, but the difference is null)
at 25 i/s, most movie is blurred anyway :-(
The speed of the projection has nothing to do with the clarity of the picture. I have taken 8mm movies, and 16mm movies, and have played around with 24 fps and 32 fps and even played around with the frame rate per second which is banned (or was ?] because it us used for subliminal affect on your brain. Your statement about movies in cinemas being shown at only 1920x1080 resolution of course would produce crap images. How would you spread 1920 pixels x1080 pixels over an area which may be, say, 7 metres by 5 metres? In case you didn't know, the next 3rd part of The Hobbit was filmed at 48fps and at 5K resolution instead of 24fps and 4K resolution. And it's also in 3D. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 01/05/2014 13:04, Basil Chupin a écrit :
On 01/05/14 19:53, jdd wrote:
at 25 i/s, most movie is blurred anyway :-(
The speed of the projection has nothing to do with the clarity of the picture.
it's not the projection, but the camera shutter. Try to make stills at 1/25 of second...
Your statement about movies in cinemas being shown at only 1920x1080 resolution of course would produce crap images.
the only thing important is the angle definition the eyes can see, of course nobody watch a cinema screen at 1m distance :-)
In case you didn't know, the next 3rd part of The Hobbit was filmed at 48fps and at 5K resolution instead of 24fps and 4K resolution. And it's also in 3D.
and everybody spoke about it because it was the only one :-) there are other problems also due to the framerate, but we are already much too OT jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-01 19:49 (GMT+1000) Basil Chupin composed:
And as far as the TV or even the monitor is concerned, the last 2 monitors I have used had 1920x1080 resolution and were only capable of handling sRGB colours. My new 27" monitor handles 2560x1440 resolution
2560x1440 isn't really all that special @ 108.8 DPI. A 21" 1920x1080 is 104.9 DPI, and a 20" 1920x1080 is 110.2 DPI, so the more common 21.5" 1920x1080 would be very close to the same quality you have. Yours is mostly just bigger than the average (96DPI) puter screen, but with fonts of any given px size 22.14532% smaller due to the higher density.
and 99% of the full Adobe colour range (some 1.07 billion 10-bit colours). If you think that this does not make a difference to what appears on the screen, then try and see for yourself.
Only on the best of days can I detect the slightest difference between 16 bit and 24 bit color. Any more color detail would be totally lost on me, and most in the 50+ range. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/05/14 20:32, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2014-05-01 19:49 (GMT+1000) Basil Chupin composed:
And as far as the TV or even the monitor is concerned, the last 2 monitors I have used had 1920x1080 resolution and were only capable of handling sRGB colours. My new 27" monitor handles 2560x1440 resolution
2560x1440 isn't really all that special @ 108.8 DPI. A 21" 1920x1080 is 104.9 DPI, and a 20" 1920x1080 is 110.2 DPI, so the more common 21.5" 1920x1080 would be very close to the same quality you have. Yours is mostly just bigger than the average (96DPI) puter screen, but with fonts of any given px size 22.14532% smaller due to the higher density.
and 99% of the full Adobe colour range (some 1.07 billion 10-bit colours). If you think that this does not make a difference to what appears on the screen, then try and see for yourself.
Only on the best of days can I detect the slightest difference between 16 bit and 24 bit color. Any more color detail would be totally lost on me, and most in the 50+ range.
Your eyes may no be used to see such a colour range nor would you expecting to see this range if you never have the need for it. But if you have anything to do with photography and photo editing then compare a photo on the normal monitor and one such as the one I described and you will immediately see the difference. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 27/04/14 19:47, Karl Sinn wrote:
DVDs have one set of hard-coded keys which were cracked and published a long time ago - to revoke or change them would have required replacing or manually 'updating' every DVD player (not a viable option.) The IP holders learnt this lesson well and so Blu-ray has mechanisms for revoking/updating keys and certificates. Just because the DRM algorythm is public domain, doesn't mean the keys are generally available.
It's not a matter of piety and purity - VLC have decided not to get involved in the key revoking/cracking/resetting cat-and-mouse game, that's all. There are places you can find to download key files to use, but the legality of doing so is doubtful.
Dx
Interesting topic :)
So why is VLC Windows allowed to get access to these keys but not VLC Linux? I have trouble to imagine, that Microsoft is paying fees to all the BlueRay producers...
You could have also added that the owners of openSUSE ( I don't now recall the full sordid story so check it out for yourself) were /(?)are in bed with MS so the whole thing is just posturing. (And don't forget that MS has now has had its day and is now an empire on the decline.) There are other programs, for example AnyDVD or DVDFab, which will "crack" any DVD or Bd disc thrown at them. So, please, let's come down to earth :-) . BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 27/04/14 19:07, Dylan wrote:
On 27/04/14 08:58, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 27/04/14 17:42, Dylan wrote:
On 27/04/14 08:18, Basil Chupin wrote:
Well, I have the libaacs* files (also from packman) installed on 13.1 and which appear to be the same version number as the one(s) in Windows.
Since VLC for Windows comes from the same stable as the one for openSUSE then there must be another reason why vlc works perfectly in Windows but not in openSUSE (I don't know how it works in other distros).
VLC explicitly state they they *do not* distribute the aacs keys as part of the library (either for Linux or Windows.) Those that Windows clearly has access to must, therefore, come from somewhere else (M$ directly, seems a reasonable first assumption.) You might try looking for the key database file, KEYDB.cfg apparently, in your Windows installation, and stop blaming VLC for being 'broken' because it doesn't break a license which could lead leave it open to crippling legal action and cause a set of keys to be revoked.
More info at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/BluRay which is the first result when searching google for "aacs key linux"...
Thanks for this Dylan. I shall read the references you provide.
But lets' stop pretending and claiming piety and purity about this.
vlc is able to play DVDs, right? And it wouldn't be able to do so unless there were files available to be able to do so, right?
So why should playing Blu-ray discs be any different?
DVDs have one set of hard-coded keys which were cracked and published a long time ago - to revoke or change them would have required replacing or manually 'updating' every DVD player (not a viable option.) The IP holders learnt this lesson well and so Blu-ray has mechanisms for revoking/updating keys and certificates. Just because the DRM algorythm is public domain, doesn't mean the keys are generally available.
It's not a matter of piety and purity - VLC have decided not to get involved in the key revoking/cracking/resetting cat-and-mouse game, that's all. There are places you can find to download key files to use, but the legality of doing so is doubtful.
Oh please...... See my response to Felix I posted a few seconds ago. I downloaded VLC for Windows from videolan.org (and you can do so by going there - it's the first thing you see when you get to that URL) and it works perfectly to play Bd discs. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/05/14 07:59, Basil Chupin wrote:
I downloaded VLC for Windows from videolan.org (and you can do so by going there - it's the first thing you see when you get to that URL) and it works perfectly to play Bd discs.
Are you being deliberately obtuse? The keys and certificates to access Blu-Ray discs *ARE NOT PART OF VLC* no matter /where/ you get it from. It has a library which will use the keys *IF THEY ARE PRESENT ON THE SYSTEM.* The fact that Windows *CAN* play them and Linux *DOESN'T* (out of the box) is that *YOU HAVE PAID THE LICENCE FEE* when you bought Windows and the keys are provided/updated by Windows. What do you think are in the multiple updates for the media Windows system? This thread already contains the information necessary for you to find the keys in your Windows installation and copy them to your Linux installation. If you took the time to do that rather than spray bile about VLC then perhaps you would have already solved your "problem". -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 01/05/2014 09:46, Dylan a écrit :
This thread already contains the information necessary for you to find the keys in your Windows installation and copy them to your Linux installation. If you took the time to do that rather than spray bile about VLC then perhaps you would have already solved your "problem".
oh, I missed this part. Do you have a link? thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/05/14 17:50, jdd wrote:
Le 01/05/2014 09:46, Dylan a �crit :
This thread already contains the information necessary for you to find the keys in your Windows installation and copy them to your Linux installation. If you took the time to do that rather than spray bile about VLC then perhaps you would have already solved your "problem".
oh, I missed this part. Do you have a link?
thanks jdd
Yes, even I would now like to see that link again. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/05/14 17:46, Dylan wrote:
On 01/05/14 07:59, Basil Chupin wrote:
I downloaded VLC for Windows from videolan.org (and you can do so by going there - it's the first thing you see when you get to that URL) and it works perfectly to play Bd discs.
Are you being deliberately obtuse? The keys and certificates to access Blu-Ray discs *ARE NOT PART OF VLC* no matter /where/ you get it from. It has a library which will use the keys *IF THEY ARE PRESENT ON THE SYSTEM.* The fact that Windows *CAN* play them and Linux *DOESN'T* (out of the box) is that *YOU HAVE PAID THE LICENCE FEE* when you bought Windows and the keys are provided/updated by Windows. What do you think are in the multiple updates for the media Windows system?
Please tell me what is in the multiple updates for Windows? I have yet to see anything in the updates which relates to the media and Blu-ray discs. Oh, and I do updates only about once every 3 months and I do not use Windows on a daily basis, nor even a weekly or fortnightly basis.
This thread already contains the information necessary for you to find the keys in your Windows installation and copy them to your Linux installation. If you took the time to do that rather than spray bile about VLC then perhaps you would have already solved your "problem".
You are getting rather hot under the collar about all this, aren't you? You have an interest in VLC or what? You have been happy to be politely discuss this topic until now. So what has changed at your end? BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.0 & kernel 3.14.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Traditionally Linux distros have always stayed clear of DRM issues. In the past if you wanted to watch DVD's you had to go to some other repo and download software to do so. Even the MS core fonts used by Wine were not on the main servers but on independent servers. From what I'm reading the issue with BlueRay is the same EXCEPT you can't just download one set of keys and be done with it. They are rotating and need constant changing. Running VLC in Windows, and it functioning, just means that something in Windows is performing that function. It is not VLC. VLC simply finds the keys available in the OS and plays the discs. IF the keys were available in Linux it would work there as well. Here's my solution to the issue [ admittedly not portable, but...... ]: you can stop reading here if you wish On the wall next to my computer desk on shelves and wall brackets I have, from the top down: Slingbox FTA satellite receiver Directv DVR receiver Directv OTA receiver 42 inch 1080p Sony Bravia DVD recorder Combo DVD/VHS player Sony BD player Panasonic 5 disc DVD/CD player/AM/FM/Surround sound As I said, it is not portable. But, it works VERY well for just about any media I want to watch/listen to. For our living room we have a very similar setup but with a 60 inch Sony. In the bedroom we have to rough it. Just Directv on a 42 inch, but there are other forms of entertainment in that room. -- I may be crazy, but crazy is better than stupid. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dylan <> írta: [SNIP]
So why should playing Blu-ray discs be any different?
DVDs have one set of hard-coded keys which were cracked and published a long time ago - to revoke or change them would have required replacing or manually 'updating' every DVD player (not a viable option.) The IP holders learnt this lesson well and so Blu-ray has mechanisms for revoking/updating keys and certificates. Just because the DRM algorythm is public domain, doesn't mean the keys are generally available.
I don't have a blu-ray player and don't have any blue-ray discs either. That is I don't know how it is working. But there is something I don't understand. If I buy a standalone table-top blue-ray player, how will it get the keys to play the purchased blu-ray discs? Thanks, Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/02/2014 10:01 AM, Istvan Gabor wrote:
Dylan <> írta:
[SNIP]
So why should playing Blu-ray discs be any different? DVDs have one set of hard-coded keys which were cracked and published a long time ago - to revoke or change them would have required replacing or manually 'updating' every DVD player (not a viable option.) The IP holders learnt this lesson well and so Blu-ray has mechanisms for revoking/updating keys and certificates. Just because the DRM algorythm is public domain, doesn't mean the keys are generally available. I don't have a blu-ray player and don't have any blue-ray discs either. That is I don't know how it is working. But there is something I don't understand. If I buy a standalone table-top blue-ray player, how will it get the keys to play the purchased blu-ray discs?
Thanks,
Istvan
In one way that's actually a very good question. In another, all the BD's we have connect to the internet. The also do Netflix, Hulu etc. I figure these can just get new keys whenever needed. Maybe that is one reason for the manufacturers to add all the extra bells and whistles. Can you buy a player that doesn't connect? -- I may be crazy, but crazy is better than stupid. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 02/05/2014 17:15, Billie Walsh a écrit :
Can you buy a player that doesn't connect?
of course. He may have some keys built in. but I never use commercial BD, so I can't say. May be the bios can be updated (through usb or dvd) jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/02/2014 10:33 AM, jdd wrote:
Le 02/05/2014 17:15, Billie Walsh a écrit :
Can you buy a player that doesn't connect?
of course. He may have some keys built in.
but I never use commercial BD, so I can't say. May be the bios can be updated (through usb or dvd)
jdd
Somehow I have a hard time believing that Joe or Jane Average would update their keys through a thumb drive or DVD. Where would they get the message that their keys needed to be updated. Then downloading and creating the files properly. Finally, doing the firmware update. Probably upset customers and get a bad reputation as a manufacturer. -- I may be crazy, but crazy is better than stupid. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-02 17:01 (GMT+0200) Istvan Gabor composed:
If I buy a standalone table-top blue-ray player, how will it get the keys to play the purchased blu-ray discs?
They ride in on purchased discs. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/BluRay explains. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/05/14 16:01, Istvan Gabor wrote:
Dylan <> írta:
[SNIP]
So why should playing Blu-ray discs be any different?
DVDs have one set of hard-coded keys which were cracked and published a long time ago - to revoke or change them would have required replacing or manually 'updating' every DVD player (not a viable option.) The IP holders learnt this lesson well and so Blu-ray has mechanisms for revoking/updating keys and certificates. Just because the DRM algorythm is public domain, doesn't mean the keys are generally available.
I don't have a blu-ray player and don't have any blue-ray discs either. That is I don't know how it is working. But there is something I don't understand. If I buy a standalone table-top blue-ray player, how will it get the keys to play the purchased blu-ray discs?
There is a default set of keys in the player when you buy it. After that, each disc you play can have key updates included, and these will update the ones in your player. It's a complicated system, but that's basically how it goes. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dylan <> írta:
On 02/05/14 16:01, Istvan Gabor wrote:
Dylan <> írta:
[SNIP]
So why should playing Blu-ray discs be any different?
DVDs have one set of hard-coded keys which were cracked and published a long time ago - to revoke or change them would have required replacing or manually 'updating' every DVD player (not a viable option.) The IP holders learnt this lesson well and so Blu-ray has mechanisms for revoking/updating keys and certificates. Just because the DRM algorythm is public domain, doesn't mean the keys are generally available.
I don't have a blu-ray player and don't have any blue-ray discs either. That is I don't know how it is working. But there is something I don't understand. If I buy a standalone table-top blue-ray player, how will it get the keys to play the purchased blu-ray discs?
There is a default set of keys in the player when you buy it. After that, each disc you play can have key updates included, and these will update the ones in your player. It's a complicated system, but that's basically how it goes.
Thanks, I see now. In this case it is hard to believe that those default keys has not been "extracted" and are not available so that computer programs could use them. I am not interested but I guess one could download them from some site and copy them to the right place where the blu-ray player software can find them. Or is this not feasible? Thanks, Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (13)
-
Basil Chupin -
Billie Walsh -
Carlos E. R. -
Dsant -
Dylan -
Felix Miata -
Freek de Kruijf -
Istvan Gabor -
James Knott -
jdd -
Karl Sinn -
lynn -
Patrick Shanahan