I imagine that this is hard to answer and quite subject to personal taste, but how about as a recommendation to folks who are new to linus and opensuse (like me)? I am struggling a bit with the Gnome interface and I really would like to stay with linux this time, so is KDE easier to manage for the user trying to get away from Microsoft? Thanks Mike -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Mike Coday said the following on 04/24/2011 11:02 AM:

I imagine that this is hard to answer and quite subject to personal taste, but how about as a recommendation to folks who are new to linus and opensuse (like me)?

I am struggling a bit with the Gnome interface and I really would like to stay with linux this time, so is KDE easier to manage for the user trying to get away from Microsoft?

First: It *IS* a matter of taste Second: Its not just about Gnome and KDE. There are many other Desktop Managers. That's the whole point of Linux! Not just "Free" but "Freedom of Choice" Over and above choosing a DM/DE, you can choose skins and applet libraries. You might want to consider the lightweights, such as XFCE, or the minimal-best-of-kde-gnome delivered by LXDE, the light-fantastic ("Enlightenment"), the oldies like the incredibly configurable IceWM (which can theme to look like Windows) the lightweight NextStep, and others. Third: A while back, KDE had a complete rewrite. I love the result even though it had some growing pains. Many people either don't or were so traumatized by the problems with 4.0 that they have stuck with 3.5. Gnome as just gone though a similar radical change and there are indications that many people are going though a trauma with Gnome 3.0. I didn't like the old Gnome -- I should look at the new one sometime. Fourth: There are variations on many of the above for smaller machines such as netbooks and phones and tablets Fifth: If you can articulate what you liked and didn't like about the Windows UI we can probably give more hints http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_environment http://xwinman.org/ http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/8-great-alternative-desktop-managers-for-linux/ http://www.xpde.com/ (no, really!) -- Fight organised crime... abolish the Inland Revenue. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

Anton Aylward said the following on 04/24/2011 11:27 AM:

...

http://www.xpde.com/  (no, really!)

Yes, really. Look see http://xpde.holobit.net/shots.php

<quote> What is XPde?

It's a desktop environment(XPde) and a window manager(XPwm) for Linux. It tries to recreate the Windows XP interface to-the-pixel point. Nothing more, no clipboard compatibility between Gtk and Qt applications, no emulation of Windows applications, no unification on the widgets of X applications, just a desktop environment and a window manager. </quote>

Are you sure this is a real project? You can't download anything from the site and the main site and all the other mirrors refuse to load.\ I see some things that claim it's a toy or something. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2011/04/24 08:02 (GMT-0700) Mike Coday composed:

I imagine that this is hard to answer and quite subject to personal taste

It sure is. The first time I ever started X it came up with an icky dirty baby diaper Gnome color scheme. As soon as I figured out how I switched to KDE, and that's been my virtually only DTE ever since.

I am struggling a bit with the Gnome interface and I really would like to stay with linux this time, so is KDE easier to manage for the user trying to get away from Microsoft?

Well, KDE to start with has it's panel (taskbar) at the bottom of the screen, and its application starter (start menu) at the left end of the panel. There's also LXDE and XFCE and others for those who aren't happy with Gnome or KDE. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2011/04/24 08:43 (GMT-0700) Mike Coday composed:

In the past when I tried migrating to Linux (ubuntu and others before) I would end up freezing the machine somehow when I was in the learning curve. Life is just too busy for me to spend endless hours reinstalling the OS, so I would give up and reluctantly go back to Windows.

I think there is no question that linux is a little geeky, more command line knowledge needed than windows, plus the language is a little unfamiliar.

I am having trouble configuring the browser preference, having trouble tapping in to the existing windows network here at home, so that I can access shared stuff like printers, scanners, document folder (we all switched to Open Office years ago to help with the eventual move to linux) music library, etc.

As long as you are in KDE, put your focus on "personal settings" (application systemsettings from cmdline) for things like browser preference and other truly personal settings, and use YaST for global things like networking, scanners and printers.

My spouse used to administer a unix system before retirement, but that was a few years ago, and I don't think she has interest in learning linux command line stuff because it would cut in to gardening time.

While cmdline tools are powerful, many and available, most people should be able to get around 99% or more of what they need done without them. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 04/24/2011 11:43 AM, Mike Coday pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

thanks for all the thoughts, folks. Gives me some ideas about what to try.

In the past when I tried migrating to Linux (ubuntu and others before) I would end up freezing the machine somehow when I was in the learning curve. Life is just too busy for me to spend endless hours reinstalling the OS, so I would give up and reluctantly go back to Windows.

I think there is no question that linux is a little geeky, more command line knowledge needed than windows, plus the language is a little unfamiliar.

I am having trouble configuring the browser preference, having trouble tapping in to the existing windows network here at home, so that I can access shared stuff like printers, scanners, document folder (we all switched to Open Office years ago to help with the eventual move to linux) music library, etc.

My spouse used to administer a unix system before retirement, but that was a few years ago, and I don't think she has interest in learning linux command line stuff because it would cut in to gardening time.

I don't want to start the desktop war. Just need a little help and don't want to be completely obnoxious noobie as I try again to switch platforms.

I am going to try installing KDE, LXDE and some of the others mentioned and see if I can sort it out.

Thanks again,

Mike

And by the way please do not hi-jack threads (replying to a message and simply changing the subject line) and please refrain from top posting. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Mike Coday said the following on 04/24/2011 11:43 AM:

In the past when I tried migrating to Linux (ubuntu and others before) I would end up freezing the machine somehow when I was in the learning curve. Life is just too busy for me to spend endless hours reinstalling the OS, so I would give up and reluctantly go back to Windows.

I think there is no question that linux is a little geeky, more command line knowledge needed than windows, plus the language is a little unfamiliar.

How long ago was that? All the modern distribution - Suse, Redhat, Mandriva and Ubuntu, the "Volkswagen" (aka "People's Linux") of operating systems - can all be installed and configured for normal PC hardware without recourse to the command line. I've read that Linux is easier to install than Windows, but I've never had the opportunity to install Windows. Many bloggers describe things in terms of command line because that are writing text. Its easier and shorter to give the command line that to try and describe all the operations and fields of one or more GUI screens that do the same thing. So unless you are doing something esoteric or dealing with odd and relicrant hardware - which is what we discuss here a lot of the time - you shouldn't need to use the command line. Yes its different, but then so is using the MAC or using a Blackberry. Its easy to be fooled, just as its easy to be fooled moving between England and the USA where they speak English but everything is different. BTDT - some assumptions can get you killed. "Relicrant hardware". Yes, there is that. A lot of cheap PC or ones that have some compromise in the hardware will hang when you try to install Linux.

I am having trouble configuring the browser preference, having trouble tapping in to the existing windows network here at home, so that I can access shared stuff like printers, scanners, document folder (we all switched to Open Office years ago to help with the eventual move to linux) music library, etc.

Ask and we'll advise, but a lot of that is no more difficult than setting up another Windows PC on your network. You'll have to fill in the name of the network group -- just like on Windows. The thing is that the tools (GUI) are different. And since there are many ways of doing a GUI - depending on which desktop you are using :-) - we will probably tell you to edit the relevant config file :-) We all agree on the config file :-)

My spouse used to administer a unix system before retirement, but that was a few years ago, and I don't think she has interest in learning linux command line stuff because it would cut in to gardening time.

Which is different from UNIX command line stuff for setting up a network etc how? (Hint: unless you're doing something esoteric, it isn't.)

I don't want to start the desktop war. Just need a little help and don't want to be completely obnoxious noobie as I try again to switch platforms.

IF you want this to be independent of the desktop you choose, THEN you are going to have to deal with the command line.

I am going to try installing KDE, LXDE and some of the others mentioned and see if I can sort it out.

Ah, that sounds like a good way to get frustrated. Pick one and stick with it. Every time you switch you throw away what you just learnt and have to learn anew. -- Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army. --Edward Everett -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David Haller said the following on 04/24/2011 04:10 PM:

...

...

...

...

I am going to try installing KDE, LXDE and some of the others mentioned and see if I can sort it out.

Ah, that sounds like a good way to get frustrated. Pick one and stick with it. Every time you switch you throw away what you just learnt and have to learn anew.

But on this I disagree! Strongly. Have a look at KDE, Gnome, LXDE, XFCE, and at least a selection of simple Windowmanagers, including preferably WindowMaker, fluxbox, icewm, Enlightenment, metacity[1], aewm(++), sapphire, whatever else you can lay your hands on. Note though: many of the simple ones (at least aewm(++) and sapphire in above list) need additional tools like e.g. fspanel for "basic" functionality, WindowMaker and AFAIR icewm do not though).

Yes, do. You'll find there are different ways of configuring each; difernt file manager for each. Gnome and KDE have their own - and ideosyncraticaly different - file managers, mailers, word processors, presentation tools, spreadsheets. I read an article somewhere once that pointed out the read difference was the central authority of Windows meant that there was One True Way of doing things, each "sui generis" and "ne variartur". The same, except for colour schemes, on all similar machies (i.e. all Xp or all Server2003). Wheras Linux, like UNIX, was based on a few reular patterns. That is, if you consider an editor to be an editor, be it ed over a 1200 baud modem on a KSR33 teletype, or emacs on the console under X-Windows, or VI or GVim or Kword, or OOWriter; if you consider a spreadsheet to be a spreadhseet be it Gnumber, OOcalc or KSpread. If that's how you feel, then obviously you won't be frustrated by the differences, obviously you know each so fully you never get confused and frustrated over which you are using as a newb might. Or perhaps even when using Gnome as a desktop you still use all the KDE tools: Dolphin, Konqueror, KWord, Kcalc, Kmail, ... After all, there's nothing to stop you doing that. Linux is *that* flexible. But it might confuse and frustrate a newb. -- Rule of Feline Frustration: When your cat has fallen asleep on your lap and looks utterly content and adorable, you will suddenly have to go to the bathroom. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hello, On Sun, 24 Apr 2011, Doug wrote:

On 04/24/2011 11:43 AM, Mike Coday wrote:

You're missing 'dash' here, the default /bin/sh on Debian and decendant systems like Ubuntu, which acts a lot more like a Bourne shell than a bash in POSIX mode.

Bourne /bin/sh sh Bourne Again /bin/bash bash C shell /bin/csh csh TC shell /bin/tcsh tcsh Korn shell /bin/ksh ksh Z shell /bin/zsh zsh

All these except the [t]c shell (and a real /bin/sh) are POSIX compliant and should run /bin/sh scripts just fine. Nonetheless, it is a serious bug writing stuff with #!/bin/sh that's not actually POSIX. For reference to a "bourne" shell: use [d]ash. You'll be surprised. It is NOT a POSIX shell, AFAIR.

(Anything written for the Bourne shell will run in bash without modification, AFAIK.)

As per definition.

One of these is almost surely what she's familiar with, and wouldn't have to learn anything new, and you can set the system so it always starts in one of those shells. (She will know how.)

As long as it's not csh, she'll be quite happy with bash, and you _can_ set her shell to whatever she prefers (e.g. /bin/zsh). HTH, -dnh -- "A priest is either a PFW on the ultimate support line, or a fraud adept at offering bogus answers to difficult problems while holding lusers at bay with arcane ritual." -- Malcolm Ray -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hello, On Sun, 24 Apr 2011, Lew Wolfgang wrote: [..] Cross-check with WindowMaker ...

Here are the big points:

Multiple desktops (20), each with their own wallpaper.

Check.

Easily remapping of the caps lock key to an additional control key. (Kerrigan, Richie and God placed the control key to the left of the "A" key! Who were those IBM engineers to think they could remap control to caps-lock on the IBM AT keyboard?)

Nothing at all dependent on KDE. I have Escape on the "Caps" key left of 'A', and my lower row is: Control Mode_switch Alt Space Alt Mode_switch Meta Control. (Mode_switch aka AltGr aka ISO_Level3_Switch). A simple ~/.Xmodmap does the trick (in my case a bit more). The _hard_ thing is to keep those "nice" DEs, namely KDE (and Gnome) from remapping. But AFAIK it suffices to put a 'xmodmap ~/.Xmodmap'-"script" into their autostart stuff to overwrite their limitations again. So: Check.

Window placement behavior. I prefer "Focus Follows Mouse" and being able to type in a window without it being raised to the top.

Check.

This allows you to overlap multiple windows just the way you want and to read from the one on top while entering into a sliver of one on the bottom. Focus raising windows and not being able to turn it off is probably the biggest sin of Microsoft Windows, IMHO.

I actually hate "Focus follows mouse", as I like to move the mouse-pointer out of the way, that's just me. With WMaker, "FFM" is easily configurable with WPrefs (or even default, dunno). So, you might want to have a(nother) look at WindowMaker yourself ;) There's e.g. one of the "killer" features of WMaker for me: you can "rip off" menues to make them normal windows, you can open the menues (Windows, Apps) on any pixel of "non-App-Space" (i.e. "Background" or "Desktop")... Consider: Right-Click -> Appearence -> Themes, Move "Themes" Titlebar to rip it off (and optionally close the menu itself by right-clicking anywhere on the "Desktop"), and then you have the still open "Themes" menu, you can click any entry without the menu disappearing. With e.g. KDE/Gnome, you have some extra "Config-App" showing some "Preview" of the theme, you'd always have to click "Apply" to really see effects etc. Talk about usability, eh? WMaker is _efficient_.

One of my very smart friends doesn't like either Gnome or KDE. Too much cruft. He uses FVWM-2 and Emacs. That's what the UNIX paradigm is all about: choice!

Full ACK. Me: WindowMaker, XEmacs, a dozen xterms, and a bit of fluff (xclock[1], gkrellm, often seamonkey for web stuff, xawtv for TV) ... ;) -dnh [1] yeah, there's a clock in gkrellm, there's even an analog clock available, but that's not "read at a glance". This is: /usr/bin/xclock -norender -update 1 -rv -bg black -fg white \ -hd white -hl grey80 -geometry 100x100 -padding 4 The "Volume Plugin" for gkrellm though is very useful and efficient. -- "Airplane travel is nature's way of making you look like your passport photo." -- Al Gore -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 4/24/2011 12:28 PM, Lew Wolfgang wrote:

On 04/24/2011 08:02 AM, Mike Coday wrote:

...

I imagine that this is hard to answer and quite subject to personal taste, but how about as a recommendation to folks who are new to linus and opensuse (like me)?

I am struggling a bit with the Gnome interface and I really would like to stay with linux this time, so is KDE easier to manage for the user trying to get away from Microsoft? /snip/ Window placement behavior. I prefer "Focus Follows Mouse" and being able to type in a window without it being raised to the top. This allows you to overlap multiple windows just the way you want and to read from the one on top while entering into a sliver of one on the bottom. Focus raising windows and not being able to turn it off is probably the biggest sin of Microsoft Windows, IMHO.

At one time there was a program that would let Windows use focus follows mouse. Maybe you can still get it. (I tried it and didn't like it.) /snip/ --doug -- Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --G. Marx -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hello, On Sun, 24 Apr 2011, John Andersen wrote:

When you log in, there is a an option at the bottom to select the desktop you prefer for that session.

Where? ==== Welcome to openSUSE 11.2 "Emerald" - Kernel 2.6.31.14-0.8-default (tty3). grusum login: ==== Don't assume everybody uses [xkg]dm and runlevel 5 as default! HTH, -dnh PS: bootsplash? whassat? $ tr ' ' '\n' < /proc/cmdline | grep 'splash\|vga=\|video' splash=native vga=normal $ /sbin/splash --help bash: /sbin/splash: No such file or directory --

...

This needs quotes: use lib "/path/to/perl/modules"; Single or double quotes? Yes. -- Tad McClellan in comp.lang.perl.misc -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 04/24/2011 11:02 AM, Mike Coday wrote:

I imagine that this is hard to answer and quite subject to personal taste, but how about as a recommendation to folks who are new to linus and opensuse (like me)?

I am struggling a bit with the Gnome interface and I really would like to stay with linux this time, so is KDE easier to manage for the user trying to get away from Microsoft?

Thanks

Mike

I am partial to kde, I must admit that at the beginning. I suspect that many would think it's just a little bit harder than Gnome to deal with-- a lot harder if all the plasma stuff is turned on, and if that's the case, it will look and act so different from Windows that your newbie will hate it. (I'm not a newbie, and when I looked at Kubuntu last summer, I puked!) OTOH, the MINT distro, which is an offspring of Ubuntu, but without some of the difficulties that Ubuntu presents to a Windows person, will look quite familiar, even tho it really is a Gnome display. (Get the "standard" version, not one based on Debian, or LXDE, or something else.) Another possibility is Zorin, which can be set up to look and work very much like Windows XP, altho you will have to switch between GUIs to put icons on the desktop, and then switch back to the XP-type display. It's quite easy, actually, and for a newbie who has little computer experience outside of Windows, one of these two might be the easiest to use. One other thing--the main distros that use Gnome are either upgrading to Gnome 3, which I haven't seen, or in Ubuntu's case, Unity. Both, especially the latter, have provoked a certain amount of controversy and even hate on the lists. I suspect that kde will retain more of its own nature for a longer time. To continue my disclaimer at the beginning, I am using PCLinuxOs, with kde (now 4.6.2), and with just a little tweaking, it looks and works nicely. I haven't looked at opensuse's kde in the last 18 months or so, so I can't make a direct comment on that. A previous poster had to ask how to put the suse panel--what a Windows person probably calls the system tray--on the bottom of the display, as in some other distros and Windows, but it's easy to do. Welcome to Linux. whichever distro and/or GUI you choose. --doug -- Blessed are the peacekeepers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A. M. Greeley -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hello, On Sun, 24 Apr 2011, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Peter Nikolic [04-24-11 09:19]:

...

How do i get [the panel] to go back to the bottom i have tried every think i can think of but cant get it to move at all

Panel is now a "widget"

<rt-clk> on screen select "Unlock Widgets" <rt-clk> on far right end of panel select "Panel Settings" grab "Screen Edge", center of 3rd panel up pull to bottom of screen and release <rt-clk> on screen select "Lock Widgets"

I'm flabbergasted at how intuitive KDE4 is. -dnh, *scnr* -- [O'Neill & Carter in the elevator. Carter starts humming Stargate theme song] O'Neill: Humming? Carter: I am? O'Neill: You are. Carter: Sorry. O'Neill: What's his name? Carter: Now, why-- O'Neill (Interrupting): Humming. Carter: Pete. -- Stargate SG-1, 7x15 - Chimera -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

* Carl Hartung [04-24-11 17:15]:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 21:19:12 +0200 David Haller wrote:

...

I'm flabbergasted at how intuitive KDE4 is.

I am *SO* grateful I wasn't sipping my coffee! :-)

thas wot bibs en towels er for :^) sipping my oversized Dos Equis see: http://staythirstymyfriends.com/?oa=y -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hello, On Sun, 24 Apr 2011, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* David Haller [04-24-11 16:49]:

...

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

<rt-clk> on screen select "Unlock Widgets" <rt-clk> on far right end of panel select "Panel Settings" grab "Screen Edge", center of 3rd panel up pull to bottom of screen and release <rt-clk> on screen select "Lock Widgets"

I'm flabbergasted at how intuitive KDE4 is.

There is undoubtedly a text file that could have been altered to accomplish the same but I no longer know which file to edit.

Aye. And as far as I know KDE, you'd have to edit that file while KDE was not running, as it'd probably "update" that file on exit, overwriting your changes.

Seldom is the guiey as efficient as the cl :^)

Jep. Seldom are there really good UIs -- but, at times, those do last. Samples: CLI: we all know that one, choose your pois^Wshell and tools (I like perl as my swiss army knife ;) Most efficient for most tasks. Often takes a bit more time the first time around, but if you "archive" that (history, alias, function, script) ... Combined with a few good TUI Apps like mc, Bob's your uncle. There's tons of stuff running here daily that I'd need big honking libs (e.g. strigi and what not) to do "GUIish". With the CLI, I wrote myself a script basically calling find with a ton of options (mostly involving -prune), similar to updatedb, that generates me specialized indices of some huge file-archive (local, extern and via NFS, updated as available). A small script around awk does the search part ;) And a perl-script+Module I can pipe through does sorting in a various (weird) ways, the default being parsing a date contained in the filename and sorting after that ... I'd go bonkers to implement that what I do daily with those in a GUI (or TUI or GUI). Even though I probably could, given enough time and money. TUI: (Text UI) Norton Commander / mc and further clones, how long has that UI been around, how often imitated, also in GUIs?), I use mc as my every-day file manager; menuconfig (like it a lot better than the gtk/qt variants, and tons more than the linear CLI version). GUI: Ah, well, WMaker + xterms for me, really, but there are some good GUIs, I like gimp, as you have everything at at right-click, but, you know ... Oh, some (old) games had quite nice UIs too.[0] Ah, FreeDoko has quite a good and efficient GUI. WUI: (Web UI) I've yet to find a sample that doesn't suck planets through nanotubes. -dnh [0] does flying with Joystick and Keyboard in Descent count as an GUI? I don't think so. But other Games had quite efficient UIs, IIRC. -- Hey, what do you expect from a culture that *drives* on *parkways* and *parks* on *driveways*? --Gallagher -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

* Doug [04-24-11 22:08]:

You may not want to lock the widgets--if you do, you won't be able to copy icons (or widgets) from the menu and install them on the desktop.

unlock widgets perform action lock widgets tough decision! -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org