On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 15:27:06 -0700, Carl Hartung wrote:

On Monday 03 August 2009 17:51:53 Ben Kevan wrote: <snip>

...

So I'm reaching out to the sys admins here asking for some help and lists of some good reasonings..

Google search phrase 'top ten reasons why linux not windows'

results:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=top+ten+reasons+why+linux+not+windows&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&fp=gxFYct4ZzkE

First page says 'Results 1 - 10 of about 42,400,000'

hth & good luck,

Carl

Yes, but using some basic generic reasons and not "political" based reasons might not be the best route to go.. I'll poke through a few to see what I can extract out of them.. Boyd, Thank you for your list also.. I'll be shoving some of those suggestions in. Keep them coming.. -- If you don't know what you want, you end up with a lot you don't. -Fight Club -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

In <200908031827.06218.suselinux@cehartung.com>, Carl Hartung wrote:

Google search phrase 'top ten reasons why linux not windows'

results:

<http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=top+ten+reasons+why+linux+not+windows&aq=f &oq=&aqi=&fp=gxFYct4ZzkE>

First page says 'Results 1 - 10 of about 42,400,000'

Not all of those are going to be useful. Heck, #8 on the first page is not what the OP is looking for <http://www.builderau.com.au/program/windows/soa/Top-ten-reasons-why- Microsoft-is-a-good-citizen/0,339024644,320267016,00.htm> -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/

On Monday 03 August 2009 05:39:55 pm James D. Parra wrote:

Here is a good start;

http://www.alacos.com/downloads/Top_Ten_Reasons_To_Switch.pdf

That's the winner, Ben, you pulled it yet? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 15:46:34 -0700, Sandy Drobic wrote: <snip>

There are lots of reasons why I have both in my company. I am using whatever system fits the requirements best.

I should re-iterate this is at the desktop level. On my laptop I run Linux. they are trying to dictate to me that I should give compelling reasons why I need to deviate from the "standard" installation of Windows. So far I have: I feel that being an IT professional I should be able to utilize the tools that help me best perform in my working daily position. This should include but not limited to the Operating System that my machine (standard hardware) is running on. Now that my initial thought is out there, I'd like to pass on some reasonsings: a.) My primary function is that of a Linux Administrator. Being on a Linux OS Based (Standard) Machine allows me to better and more productively support Linux servers since I am using native Linux applications like openSSH, and many other daily used tools. b.) Continued growth in my profession. The Enterprise Linux Operating Systems use code that has been fully tested in Desktop and Community Supported versions of servers. Using these newer versions prior to being implemented into the server field allows me to understand their usage prior to implementing them in the enterprise space. c.) Increased security and stability. Once of the simplest benefits of Open Source is to have increased security and reliability. d.) Re-itterate the point that being able to use native support tools which are not or very loosely avaiable for windows allows me to better support the servers I am responsible for. Since we're going into standards I thought I'd speak more on general standards with Linux and Windows and not arbitrarily defined Bio-Rad Standards: 1.) Windows is NOT an ISO standard 2.) POSIX is an ISO standard for Operating Systems. GNU/Linux, with the right packages installed, is an implementation of this standard 3.) Single Unix Specifications (SUS) is a standard required of all UNIX operating systems. GNU/Linux, with the right packages installed, is an implementation of this standard 4.) Linux Standard Base (LSB) is a standard for Linux systems. GNU/Linux, with the right packages installed, is an implementation of this standard Other instances of "Non-Standard" uses abroad: Where does the dictating of standards to the supporting IT professionals stop? Do we require web developers to remove Opera, Firefox and Safari from their machines because they are not documentated as a standard? Or do we allow them to use it, as it's a vital tool to better do their development and support? Are we going to require Marcom to drop MAC OS because it's not a standard, but rather a better tool to better do their marketing jobs? My point is allowing IT professionals who are self supportive should be allowed to use and install the tools necessary to do their daily functions at their prime productivity rates. -- If you don't know what you want, you end up with a lot you don't. -Fight Club -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 03 August 2009 05:56:43 pm Ben Kevan wrote:

On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 15:46:34 -0700, Sandy Drobic wrote: <snip>

...

There are lots of reasons why I have both in my company. I am using whatever system fits the requirements best.

I should re-iterate this is at the desktop level. On my laptop I run Linux. they are trying to dictate to me that I should give compelling reasons why I need to deviate from the "standard" installation of Windows.

So far I have:

I feel that being an IT professional I should be able to utilize the tools that help me best perform in my working daily position. This should include but not limited to the Operating System that my machine (standard hardware) is running on. Now that my initial thought is out there, I'd like to pass on some reasonsings:

a.) My primary function is that of a Linux Administrator. Being on a Linux OS Based (Standard) Machine allows me to better and more productively support Linux servers since I am using native Linux applications like openSSH, and many other daily used tools. b.) Continued growth in my profession. The Enterprise Linux Operating Systems use code that has been fully tested in Desktop and Community Supported versions of servers. Using these newer versions prior to being implemented into the server field allows me to understand their usage prior to implementing them in the enterprise space. c.) Increased security and stability. Once of the simplest benefits of Open Source is to have increased security and reliability. d.) Re-itterate the point that being able to use native support tools which are not or very loosely avaiable for windows allows me to better support the servers I am responsible for.

Since we're going into standards I thought I'd speak more on general standards with Linux and Windows and not arbitrarily defined Bio-Rad Standards:

1.) Windows is NOT an ISO standard 2.) POSIX is an ISO standard for Operating Systems. GNU/Linux, with the right packages installed, is an implementation of this standard 3.) Single Unix Specifications (SUS) is a standard required of all UNIX operating systems. GNU/Linux, with the right packages installed, is an implementation of this standard 4.) Linux Standard Base (LSB) is a standard for Linux systems. GNU/Linux, with the right packages installed, is an implementation of this standard

Other instances of "Non-Standard" uses abroad:

Where does the dictating of standards to the supporting IT professionals stop? Do we require web developers to remove Opera, Firefox and Safari from their machines because they are not documentated as a standard? Or do we allow them to use it, as it's a vital tool to better do their development and support? Are we going to require Marcom to drop MAC OS because it's not a standard, but rather a better tool to better do their marketing jobs?

My point is allowing IT professionals who are self supportive should be allowed to use and install the tools necessary to do their daily functions at their prime productivity rates.

5.) Don't you higher-ups have anything more important to do than worry about the OS I prefer on my laptop? Obviously not. You dimwits have been assigned this task because it is widely recognized that your are too damn dumb to pour piss out of your own boots with the directions written on the heels which is exactly the reason why you have been tasked with this important endeavour and blessed me with the privilege of engaging with you in this conversation concerning the procrustean nature of this pedantic corporate inquiry. Now good day sir! -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

On Tue, 2009-08-04 at 00:46 +0200, Sandy Drobic wrote:

...

Standard is a nice word. The last time I checked Linux was the standard for efficient and reliable mailservers (Sendmail, Postfix, Exim...), none of them are available under Windows.

You're excluding the entire Exchange universe from your "reliable mailservers". Which pretty much sinks this argument. As much as most people on this list may despise Exchange [including me] it is not inherently unreliable - it just *really* needs to be configured by someone who *really* knows what they are doing [I'd assert the same is true for every groupware solution].

I wasn't talking about groupware or imap servers I mentioned mailservers. I also didn't mention domino which can run on windows. Those are all solutions that can provide basic smtp functionality though never on the same scale an granularity as Postfix.

...

I would hate to think about trying spam filtering on a windows box.

This is quite [very?] common and works just fine.

Not in my experience.

...

Let's move on to webservers. While Windows has gained quite a bigger part of the cake, the majority of servers still run Apache/Linux. While here a Windows version is available it is still not as efficient and "standard" as the linux version.

This is a flimsy reason. The question for web servers is what is the recommended platform for the specific web services/applications you host.

That was NOT the question here! The question was "Standard". And that is Apache.

...

Let's talk about downtime. My linux boxes need one command to stay all up-to-date. They seldom require a reboot (only when a kernel update is available). I can then schedule a reboot reliable at a convenient time.

The same is true for any recent version of Windows Server.

Forget it! I have to maintain Windows servers, and the handling is not really convenient.

...

My windows boxes are notoriously hard to keep up-to-date because I need to reboot them all the time. It is a bit difficult to schedule reliable reboots since the scripting is more difficult and I have to to it every month. :-((

You need to setup a local WSUS service.

That is already running and has nothing to do with the need to reboot the boxes. It's not so troublesome with the desktops, those are shut off at the end of the day, so rebooting isn't a real problem. But the servers and their need to reboot give me some headaches.

...

There are lots of reasons why I have both in my company. I am using whatever system fits the requirements best.

Which is the best explanation; but to be convincing to management arguments need to be more specific.

Strange, I thought that was the weakest argument and most irrelevant point. :-)) -- Sandy List replies only please! Please address PMs to: news-reply2 (@) drobic (.) de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org