[opensuse] [Fwd: What is the problem - and with whom?]
I've been using smart now since it was available for use in openSUSE. At the moment I am using opeSUSE v10.3 (with all of its upgrades/updates as of today). I am also using both openSUSE's zypper and smart to upgrade the OS. Everything was working just fine until a couple of days ago when openSUSE's zypper did some upgrades - and it so happens that I saw that python was one of the files being upgraded. Since this upgrade, smart does not work. While smart-updater goes away and checks for new upgrades and comes back with the information that there are new upgrades available, trying to download these new upgrades results with -- zilch. Running smart itself produces nothing. Running smart from a command line with, /usr/bin/smart --gui produces the error message: system has no support for gtk python interface But python is installed (and it was upgraded as I mentioned above). What do I need to do to get smart working again? Ciao. -- If you really want to know, you won't ask me. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 07:28:52PM +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
I've been using smart now since it was available for use in openSUSE.
At the moment I am using opeSUSE v10.3 (with all of its upgrades/updates as of today).
I am also using both openSUSE's zypper and smart to upgrade the OS.
Everything was working just fine until a couple of days ago when openSUSE's zypper did some upgrades - and it so happens that I saw that python was one of the files being upgraded.
Since this upgrade, smart does not work.
While smart-updater goes away and checks for new upgrades and comes back with the information that there are new upgrades available, trying to download these new upgrades results with -- zilch.
Running smart itself produces nothing.
Running smart from a command line with, /usr/bin/smart --gui produces the error message:
system has no support for gtk python interface
But python is installed (and it was upgraded as I mentioned above).
What do I need to do to get smart working again?
What non-official SUSE repos do you have? These likely had some python update that broke it. The last official python update was on Feb 1st and was just a security fix. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 07:28:52PM +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
I've been using smart now since it was available for use in openSUSE.
At the moment I am using opeSUSE v10.3 (with all of its upgrades/updates as of today).
I am also using both openSUSE's zypper and smart to upgrade the OS.
Everything was working just fine until a couple of days ago when openSUSE's zypper did some upgrades - and it so happens that I saw that python was one of the files being upgraded.
Since this upgrade, smart does not work.
While smart-updater goes away and checks for new upgrades and comes back with the information that there are new upgrades available, trying to download these new upgrades results with -- zilch.
Running smart itself produces nothing.
Running smart from a command line with, /usr/bin/smart --gui produces the error message:
system has no support for gtk python interface
But python is installed (and it was upgraded as I mentioned above).
What do I need to do to get smart working again?
What non-official SUSE repos do you have? These likely had some python update that broke it.
The last official python update was on Feb 1st and was just a security fix.
Ciao, Marcus
The upgrade of python-gtk came from OpenSUSE Build Service dated 18 March 2008 timed 02:q6:53 EST. Ciao. -- If you really want to know, you won't ask me. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Basil Chupin wrote:
Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 07:28:52PM +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
[pruned]
What non-official SUSE repos do you have? These likely had some python update that broke it.
The last official python update was on Feb 1st and was just a security fix.
Ciao, Marcus
The upgrade of python-gtk came from OpenSUSE Build Service dated 18 March 2008 timed 02:q6:53 EST.
Ciao.
Sorry about the typo. The time should read, "02:16:53 EST" Ciao. -- If you really want to know, you won't ask me. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 08:14:32PM +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 07:28:52PM +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
[pruned]
What non-official SUSE repos do you have? These likely had some python update that broke it.
The last official python update was on Feb 1st and was just a security fix.
Ciao, Marcus
The upgrade of python-gtk came from OpenSUSE Build Service dated 18 March 2008 timed 02:q6:53 EST.
Ciao.
Sorry about the typo. The time should read, "02:16:53 EST"
File a bug against this repository? I guess its one of the GNOME ones, right? Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 08:14:32PM +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 07:28:52PM +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
[pruned]
What non-official SUSE repos do you have? These likely had some :-) python update that broke it.
The last official python update was on Feb 1st and was just a security fix.
Ciao, Marcus
The upgrade of python-gtk came from OpenSUSE Build Service dated 18 March 2008 timed 02:q6:53 EST.
Ciao.
Sorry about the typo. The time should read, "02:16:53 EST"
File a bug against this repository?
File a bug against a repository called 'openSUSE Build Service'? Isn't this a free-for-all build service under the control of Novell? So what am I supposed to file bug about, and aginst whom? :-)
I guess its one of the GNOME ones, right?
I have no idea, sorry Marcus. I just boot the OS and let zyppo and smart do their designed jobs. But your question has a rather unpleasant connotation: "I guess its one of the GNOME ones, right?" I always thought that system applications did not distinguish between such things as "GNOME" or whatever but were commonly applicable to all "flavours" - for want of a better description - of Linux distros and desktops. Ciao. -- If you really want to know, you won't ask me. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 10:21:17PM +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 08:14:32PM +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote: [...]
The upgrade of python-gtk came from OpenSUSE Build Service dated 18 March 2008 timed 02:q6:53 EST.
Ciao.
Sorry about the typo. The time should read, "02:16:53 EST"
File a bug against this repository?
File a bug against a repository called 'openSUSE Build Service'? Isn't this a free-for-all build service under the control of Novell? So what am I supposed to file bug about, and aginst whom? :-)
IMHO you should mail the administrators of the project in the build servic. See below how to find out which project the package belongs to.
I guess its one of the GNOME ones, right?
I have no idea, sorry Marcus. I just boot the OS and let zyppo and smart do their designed jobs.
'rpm -qi python-gtk' should tell you which project the package came from in the last line.
But your question has a rather unpleasant connotation: "I guess its one of the GNOME ones, right?"
I think you're reading too much into Marcus' reply. Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Michael Schroeder wrote:
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 10:21:17PM +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 08:14:32PM +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
[...]
The upgrade of python-gtk came from OpenSUSE Build Service dated 18 March 2008 timed 02:q6:53 EST.
Ciao.
Sorry about the typo. The time should read, "02:16:53 EST"
File a bug against this repository?
File a bug against a repository called 'openSUSE Build Service'? Isn't this a free-for-all build service under the control of Novell? So what am I supposed to file bug about, and aginst whom? :-)
IMHO you should mail the administrators of the project in the build servic. See below how to find out which project the package belongs to.
I guess its one of the GNOME ones, right?
I have no idea, sorry Marcus. I just boot the OS and let zyppo and smart do their designed jobs.
'rpm -qi python-gtk' should tell you which project the package came from in the last line.
But your question has a rather unpleasant connotation: "I guess its one of the GNOME ones, right?"
I think you're reading too much into Marcus' reply.
Maybe yes, maybe no. Having something connected with Gnome being able to stuff-up a system which doesn't have Gnome installed is not something to be ignored. The only "error" I made was to have selected the "openSUSE BuildService - GNOME: Community" as a Community Repository in YaST2 - which is what caused the problem because this repository upgraded the openSUSE python-gtk v2.10.6-2.5@i586 to v2.12.0-22.1.i586.rpm dated 17 March. (I re-installed the original python-gtk from openSUSE and everything is now back to normal (ie, smart is working)). smart does not want to upgrade python-gtk to anything - it is quite happy with the version which was originally installed from openSUSE site. However, add to the Community Repositories the one GNOME one I mention above and things go haywire. I can understand the attractiveness of having a BuildService for SuSE users to access but, at the same time, isn't it also an open door for unscrupulous people to do deliberate damage to openSUSE? Ciao. -- If you really want to know, you won't ask me. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 21 March 2008 12:20:27 am Basil Chupin wrote:
I can understand the attractiveness of having a BuildService for SUSE users to access but, at the same time, isn't it also an open door for unscrupulous people to do deliberate damage to openSUSE?
I'm sure they wouldn't be subscribed to openSUSE for a long. I know for a Wiki, that every contribution is checked, and if it is blatant attempt it is deleted ASAP and user is banned. It is a part of the game. I'm sure that sysops can delete unwanted articles faster than one can create new accounts. The Build Service is for sure watched closer. Though, there is attempt to create trust rating system. On opensuse-project mail list started some time ago discussion about this: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2008-01/msg00043.html -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:20:27 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
The only "error" I made was to have selected the "openSUSE BuildService - GNOME: Community" as a Community Repository in YaST2 - which is what caused the problem
When selecting repositories it's *your* responsibility to make sure these don't interfere, i.e. you have to know what you're doing. You could, for example, also choose the FACTORY repo and would thus most probably hose your 10.3 installation. Maybe the OBS makes it a bit too easy to add potentially "dangerous" repos, but then again it's following the old *nix rule to give the user enough rope to hang himself.
I can understand the attractiveness of having a BuildService for SuSE users to access but, at the same time, isn't it also an open door for unscrupulous people to do deliberate damage to openSUSE?
Maybe they didn't check the compatibility with smart, but these people are neither unscrupulous nor deliberately damaging openSUSE! If you don't really know what you're doing, you should simply stick to the official repositories. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Philipp Thomas wrote:
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:20:27 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
The only "error" I made was to have selected the "openSUSE BuildService - GNOME: Community" as a Community Repository in YaST2 - which is what caused the problem
When selecting repositories it's *your* responsibility to make sure these don't interfere, i.e. you have to know what you're doing. You could, for example, also choose the FACTORY repo and would thus most probably hose your 10.3 installation.
Maybe the OBS makes it a bit too easy to add potentially "dangerous" repos, but then again it's following the old *nix rule to give the user enough rope to hang himself.
I can understand the attractiveness of having a BuildService for SuSE users to access but, at the same time, isn't it also an open door for unscrupulous people to do deliberate damage to openSUSE?
Maybe they didn't check the compatibility with smart, but these people are neither unscrupulous nor deliberately damaging openSUSE! If you don't really know what you're doing, you should simply stick to the official repositories.
Define "official". They are all listed in the YaST2 File Management section. Now if that is not 'official' then I don't know what is. Ciao. -- If you really want to know, you won't ask me. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:22:09 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
Define "official".
Official is something like the 10.3 update or the 10.3 repo.
They are all listed in the YaST2 File Management section. Now if that is not 'official' then I don't know what is.
Yes, you might argue that way, but would you call all shoutcast stations listed by a tool like streamtuner 'official' listings? Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Philipp Thomas wrote:
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:22:09 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
Define "official".
Official is something like the 10.3 update or the 10.3 repo.
Heck, Phillip, can't you understand that flogging around terms like "something like the 10.3 update" or "the 10.3 repo" means NOTHING to those who are not acquainted with the "lingo"? What *exactly* do the above 2 terms actually mean to a person who is new to this forum? (In fact, I don't really understand what the heck you are talking about - sorry.)
They are all listed in the YaST2 File Management section. Now if that is not 'official' then I don't know what is.
Yes, you might argue that way,
Well, I AM arguing it this way.
but would you call all shoutcast stations listed by a tool like streamtuner 'official' listings?
What the heck are you talking about? :-) What are "shoutcast stations" and a "[tool like] streamtuner 'official' listings"?! What you are really pointing out, and confirming to me, is that there is a hell of a lot of "local JARGON" being bantered around which does not in any way help a newcomer to Linux (openSUSE) nor does it help someone like me who has been around in this forum for some time. And if someone questions the contents of responses provided they are jumped on. If you, or anyone else, don't like the question then go away and don't bother responding in any way whether it be in an emotive and negative way or just for the sake of giving a response simply for the purpose of giving *a* response because you have nothing better to do. Ciao. -- If you really want to know, you won't ask me. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-03-24 at 14:22 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
Define "official".
They are all listed in the YaST2 File Management section. Now if that is not 'official' then I don't know what is.
The only "official" repositories are: OSS, NON-OSS, and update. Typically, they hand under "distribution": /pub/opensuse/distribution/10.3/repo/oss /pub/opensuse/distribution/10.3/repo/non-oss /pub/opensuse/distribution/10.3/repo/debug /pub/opensuse/distribution/10.3/repo/src-non-oss /pub/opensuse/distribution/10.3/repo/src-oss plus: /pub/opensuse/update/10.3 The "non official" repos are not mantained directly by Novell/suse, but by individuals or groups, and they hang under: /pub/opensuse/repositories - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH56aftTMYHG2NR9URAuaUAJ433psWp93iab4KRIijufTB/84aLgCfQhRq ZjYqhl/D4BGYjayV27or9EY= =YiRl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On March 20, 2008 04:28:52 am Basil Chupin wrote:
I've been using smart now since it was available for use in openSUSE.
At the moment I am using opeSUSE v10.3 (with all of its upgrades/updates as of today).
I am also using both openSUSE's zypper and smart to upgrade the OS.
Everything was working just fine until a couple of days ago when openSUSE's zypper did some upgrades - and it so happens that I saw that python was one of the files being upgraded.
Since this upgrade, smart does not work.
While smart-updater goes away and checks for new upgrades and comes back with the information that there are new upgrades available, trying to download these new upgrades results with -- zilch.
Running smart itself produces nothing.
Running smart from a command line with, /usr/bin/smart --gui produces the error message:
system has no support for gtk python interface
But python is installed (and it was upgraded as I mentioned above).
What do I need to do to get smart working again?
Ciao.
-- If you really want to know, you won't ask me.
I had this exact same behaviour. The culprit was the python-gtk 2.12.0-22.1
from the GNOME:Community repository. I downgraded to 2.10.6-25 from the
standard opensuse repo, and now all is well. One other thing to note, smart
isn't broken, just the gui. You can still run it from the command line.
--
Jeremy Baker
* Jeremy Baker
I had this exact same behaviour. The culprit was the python-gtk 2.12.0-22.1 from the GNOME:Community repository. I downgraded to 2.10.6-25 from the standard opensuse repo, and now all is well. One other thing to note, smart isn't broken, just the gui. You can still run it from the command line.
Where is python-gtk-2.10.6-25@x86_64 for 10.1 ??? 2.8.2 which *is* available has the same problem :^( -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Jeremy Baker wrote:
On March 20, 2008 04:28:52 am Basil Chupin wrote:
I've been using smart now since it was available for use in openSUSE.
At the moment I am using opeSUSE v10.3 (with all of its upgrades/updates as of today).
I am also using both openSUSE's zypper and smart to upgrade the OS.
Everything was working just fine until a couple of days ago when openSUSE's zypper did some upgrades - and it so happens that I saw that python was one of the files being upgraded.
Since this upgrade, smart does not work.
While smart-updater goes away and checks for new upgrades and comes back with the information that there are new upgrades available, trying to download these new upgrades results with -- zilch.
Running smart itself produces nothing.
Running smart from a command line with, /usr/bin/smart --gui produces the error message:
system has no support for gtk python interface
But python is installed (and it was upgraded as I mentioned above).
What do I need to do to get smart working again?
Ciao.
-- If you really want to know, you won't ask me.
I had this exact same behaviour. The culprit was the python-gtk 2.12.0-22.1 from the GNOME:Community repository. I downgraded to 2.10.6-25 from the standard opensuse repo, and now all is well. One other thing to note, smart isn't broken, just the gui. You can still run it from the command line.
I am getting a bad nagging feeling about the way openSUSE is being upgraded/updated by zypper- I can see some nasty things heading towards openSUSE. Take this python-gtk business. There are at least 3 versions (for 32- and 64-bit OSs) of python-gtk available via the zypper upgrade 'system' all with different version numbers: they are available from the Main Repository (OSS), but not being upgraded; the next 2 come from the openSUSE BuildService - GNOME:Community and openSUSEBuildService - GNOME:STABLE. Now, if you have some Gnome bits installed - like mc [Midnight Commander] - you most probably won't get them upgraded unless you select either GNOME:Community or GNOME:STABLE, but if you do then you may get a different version of some file installed depending on whether you had selected Community or STABLE. (I had Community selected and received the "dud" python-gtk.) In the case of python-gtk, Community has 2.12.0-22.1 (dated 17 March 1617 hours), which is the one causing smart not to function, while STABLE has 2.12.0-4.3 (dated24 Jan 1101 hours), and at the same time the normal SuSE update repository has 2.10.6-25 and which was never upgraded since I installed 10.3 until GNOME:Community repository kicked in on 18 March and installed the defective (for smart) 2.12.0-22.1. In an earlier message I asked someone from where did he get 2.12.0-4.2 (dated 24 Jan 0227 hours) because he had to go back to it to have smart working again. Well, this version is a x64 version residing in the GNOME:STABLE directory. In YaST2's List of Online Repositories both GNOME:Community and GNOME:STABLE are shown. Which one is to be selected for use - or should both be selected? Another point about this is that I am using KDE so why should I have to go messing around with GNOME-related repositories? I am in the process of converting a friend of mine from XP to openSUSE and using KDE- trying to explain to him why he needs to select GNOME-related repositories is going to be very tricky business.... Ciao. -- If you really want to know, you won't ask me. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Basil Chupin schrieb:
In YaST2's List of Online Repositories both GNOME:Community and GNOME:STABLE are shown. Which one is to be selected for use - or should both be selected?
Previously I always did use them both. Now I think there is no need for using those repositories, especially if one is a KDE user only.
Another point about this is that I am using KDE so why should I have to go messing around with GNOME-related repositories?
AFAIK some openSUSE global config files seem to be gnome-related. So if there is a flow there a gnome libs update might be considered useful.
I am in the process of converting a friend of mine from XP to openSUSE and using KDE- trying to explain to him why he needs to select GNOME-related repositories is going to be very tricky business....
I'm in the same position using KDE only. So if I need to upgrade/install just a proggy which is available in GNOME:Community or GNOME:STABLE then I do download the matching src.rpm and rebuild it with the oss GTK libs. I'm doing so for e.g. gimp-2.4. There are also some conflicting issues between those repositories and packman. For that matter KDE repositories seem to be little bit easier to handle. -- All the best, Peter J. P-N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info/ http://www.aedon.eu/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:05:13 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
I am getting a bad nagging feeling about the way openSUSE is being upgraded/updated by zypper- I can see some nasty things heading towards openSUSE.
Zypper isn't the problem but rather *your* choice of repositories! Zypper can't know of incompatibilities between repos but you have to know them. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Philipp Thomas wrote:
On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:05:13 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
I am getting a bad nagging feeling about the way openSUSE is being upgraded/updated by zypper- I can see some nasty things heading towards openSUSE.
Zypper isn't the problem but rather *your* choice of repositories! Zypper can't know of incompatibilities between repos but you have to know them.
You know, your response, including the previous one, is typical of the rubbish some people around here feed in answer to questions. *I* am supposed to *know* the incompatibilities between repos?! *I* am supposed to know!? So, I am new user, just installed openSUSE, find that there is an entry in the YaST2 for Community Repositories, look inside and see that a few deal with the software I installed, select them, only to find that I have a problem when zypper tries to update/upgrade my system. I see that there is a help forum called opensuse so I join it and ask my question - only to get the sort of crap you just fed up the top? I just sincerely hope that the new version of zypper planned for v11.0 is as intelligent as smart. Ciao. -- If you really want to know, you won't ask me. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:36:58 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
You know, your response, including the previous one, is typical of the rubbish some people around here feed in answer to questions.
Oh, so it's rubbish now? Thank you for your considerate choice of language.
*I* am supposed to *know* the incompatibilities between repos?! *I* am supposed to know!?
If YaST2 would have listed no repo at all, wouldn't you be one of those that complained?
So, I am new user, just installed openSUSE, find that there is an entry in the YaST2 for Community Repositories, look inside and see that a few deal with the software I installed, select them, only to find that I have a problem when zypper tries to update/upgrade my system.
Oh, you would like us giving a big disclaimer every time you choose a repo reminding you of the possible pitfalls?
I just sincerely hope that the new version of zypper planned for v11.0 is as intelligent as smart.
Oh, like installing updates for a different architecture, i.e. installing 32bit i586 packages on x86_64? Zypper can't know that smart GUI won't start with the newer python-gtk package. It's the task of the packager of that python-gtk package to ensure compatibility. So if a package breaks something, complain to the person(s) that built the package, not those offering and maintaining the OBS! Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Philipp Thomas wrote:
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:36:58 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
You know, your response, including the previous one, is typical of the rubbish some people around here feed in answer to questions.
Oh, so it's rubbish now? Thank you for your considerate choice of language.
That's alright. I could have used stronger language but I am not into unmannerly language.
*I* am supposed to *know* the incompatibilities between repos?! *I* am supposed to know!?
If YaST2 would have listed no repo at all, wouldn't you be one of those that complained?
Typical reply from those who cannot see the broader picture or think laterally.
So, I am new user, just installed openSUSE, find that there is an entry in the YaST2 for Community Repositories, look inside and see that a few deal with the software I installed, select them, only to find that I have a problem when zypper tries to update/upgrade my system.
Oh, you would like us giving a big disclaimer every time you choose a repo reminding you of the possible pitfalls?
<Sigh> See response above.
I just sincerely hope that the new version of zypper planned for v11.0 is as intelligent as smart.
Oh, like installing updates for a different architecture, i.e. installing 32bit i586 packages on x86_64?
Ce?
Zypper can't know that smart GUI won't start with the newer python-gtk package. It's the task of the packager of that python-gtk package to ensure compatibility. So if a package breaks something, complain to the person(s) that built the package, not those offering and maintaining the OBS!
Oh, is this why the Repositories in YaST2 have different version numbers for 32- and 64-bit systems? The Repositories in openSUSE are unable to check that there are differences in what is being provided to the users of openSUSE? Somewhere there is a, "Communications Breakdown" (Roy Orbison). Ciao. -- If you really want to know, you won't ask me. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:34:07 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
That's alright. I could have used stronger language but I am not into unmannerly language.
Maybe you'll find others that like to argue on that level, I'm not. Good luck Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Philipp Thomas wrote:
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:34:07 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
That's alright. I could have used stronger language but I am not into unmannerly language.
Maybe you'll find others that like to argue on that level, I'm not.
Well, we agree that we both don't like to argue on "that" level :-) . And we will leave it to those "others" to argue on "that" level :-D Ciao. -- If you really want to know, you won't ask me. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 24 March 2008 06:34, Basil Chupin wrote:
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:36:58 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
*I* am supposed to *know* the incompatibilities between repos?! *I* am supposed to know!?
If YaST2 would have listed no repo at all, wouldn't you be one of those that complained?
Typical reply from those who cannot see the broader picture or think laterally.
Typical response from someone that wants to put the blame elsewhere. You are the one that added the repositories. No one else did. If you don't/didn't know what you were doing, you shouldn't have done it. It's as simple as that. It's always the software's fault. Never the operator's.
I just sincerely hope that the new version of zypper planned for v11.0 is as intelligent as smart.
Oh, like installing updates for a different architecture, i.e. installing 32bit i586 packages on x86_64?
Ce?
Zypper can't know that smart GUI won't start with the newer python-gtk package. It's the task of the packager of that python-gtk package to ensure compatibility. So if a package breaks something, complain to the person(s) that built the package, not those offering and maintaining the OBS!
Oh, is this why the Repositories in YaST2 have different version numbers for 32- and 64-bit systems?
No, this is the way it happens sometimes. Not everything gets upgraded at the same moment. Not hard at all.
The Repositories in openSUSE are unable to check that there are differences in what is being provided to the users of openSUSE?
The repositories are nothing more than a place to put stuff. It's the program that uses them that makes the decision..
Somewhere there is a, "Communications Breakdown" (Roy Orbison).
If you really want to know, you won't ask me.
Boy, you got that right.. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 10.0 Kernel 2.6.13 X86_64 KDE 3.4 Kmail 1.8 4:16pm up 221 days 20:49, 5 users, load average: 1.10, 1.18, 1.31 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-03-24 at 14:36 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
*I* am supposed to *know* the incompatibilities between repos?! *I* am supposed to know!?
Yes, in a way, you are. The situation is similar to windows: if you install a program from any source but microsoft, microsoft will not be responsible for what happens, either good or bad. Of course, this could be told in a big warning somewhere, but nevertheless is a fact. Zypper just installs according to your requests and the info given by the repositories you activate or deactivate. If the selection of repos you choose is incorrect, or the repos or packages they have are broken in someway, it is the fault of the repos maintainers, of your fault for not choosing the right repos. But in no way is the fault of zypper. You could, however, file an enhancement request for zypper to read to you a description of the repo each time you add one, and warnings if they apply. If you want no problems, just stick to the official repos. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH56xFtTMYHG2NR9URAjwCAJ9XHHxwiarT9IVJiS25wqW2Fah+wACglDYh mijaU3CNfh4e0wLRFpMCFR4= =g9X9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Carlos E. R. schrieb:
The Monday 2008-03-24 at 14:36 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
*I* am supposed to *know* the incompatibilities between repos?! *I* am supposed to know!?
Yes, in a way, you are. The situation is similar to windows: if you install a program from any source but microsoft, microsoft will not be responsible for what happens, either good or bad.
If you want no problems, just stick to the official repos.
Of you're right Carlos I'd even think to deny it! However, what one does get while sticking to the official repositories? A productive system for a coder? Well not all of us understand c/++ nor even html and some do not want even to understand it. AFAIK there is a lack of e.g. *the* multimedia or current releases for picture manipulation in the official repositories. So when tried to install those missing programs from those unofficial repositories one gonna recognize that packman bits gnome-stable or videolan bits packman. Thus I don't wonder if some folks gets frustrated. And for my part I don't see that a solution to that issue will come next soon. Maybe a commercial repository provided on charge basis, parallel to packmans, gnomes, kdes, etc, would be a solution? Who knows... - -- All the best, Peter J. P-N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info/ http://www.aedon.eu/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH57o3h8q3OtgoGAwRAq67AJ9wbBxgMWhddwpw5H2TSa/yCCBchACfWfdJ g5kTldkdPl530aLPAvxRHzs= =Kt96 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-03-24 at 15:27 +0100, Peter J. P-N wrote:
Of you're right Carlos I'd even think to deny it!
However, what one does get while sticking to the official repositories? A productive system for a coder? Well not all of us understand c/++ nor even html and some do not want even to understand it.
I'm no coder and my system is productive ;-)
AFAIK there is a lack of e.g. *the* multimedia or current releases for picture manipulation in the official repositories.
So when tried to install those missing programs from those unofficial repositories one gonna recognize that packman bits gnome-stable or videolan bits packman. Thus I don't wonder if some folks gets frustrated.
Yes, that's a problem. It has always been a problem for all linux users, and will probably continue to be so for ages, unfortunately. Legally, suse/novell can not provide those multimedia packages. Explanations here: http://en.opensuse.org/Restricted_Formats a solution here: http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats
And for my part I don't see that a solution to that issue will come next soon.
Maybe a commercial repository provided on charge basis, parallel to packmans, gnomes, kdes, etc, would be a solution? Who knows...
I think the problem is because packman not only provides "non-restricted" versions of the needed multimedia packages, but also upgrades. Maybe they could make a repo without "upgrades" :-? As to the gnome/kde repos, I don't know why they are necesary for multimedia. Are they? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH58w+tTMYHG2NR9URAjwfAJ9Fy3PmSu5b/5x5/vgU72Ztu0MlCwCeJbKW pBmYXZGoZZ5nR0FdqORcmM4= =C1wv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Carlos E. R. schrieb:
The Monday 2008-03-24 at 15:27 +0100, Peter J. P-N wrote:
However, what one does get while sticking to the official repositories? A productive system for a coder? Well not all of us understand c/++ nor even html and some do not want even to understand it.
I'm no coder and my system is productive ;-)
Well if the official repositories are enough to make your system 'productive' for your profession that's just great. But unfortunately for my profession, I'm a photographer and media designer, they are not.
So when tried to install those missing programs from those unofficial repositories one gonna recognize that packman bits gnome-stable or videolan bits packman. Thus I don't wonder if some folks gets frustrated.
Yes, that's a problem. It has always been a problem for all linux users, and will probably continue to be so for ages, unfortunately. Legally, suse/novell can not provide those multimedia packages.
I know this. However mandriva has found a solution for that issue with their pawerpack. Why not providing software such way also for the opensuse community? Such a dual channel distribution might prove useful.
Explanations here: http://en.opensuse.org/Restricted_Formats
* The software is proprietary software, it does not conform to the Open Source definition.
Well Novell does provide Adobe Acrobat although it ain't open source.
* The software is providing functionality which is patented and the patent holder is preventing distribution of the software
Why not buy the license on bulk or on access basis and redistribute it to the community by charging a fee?
* The software violates laws concerning software distribution in jurisdictions where Novell conducts business.
I think that nobody expect Novell to provide libdvdcss.
a solution here: http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats
Those solutions depend on unofficial repositories. Please check the content of e.g. codecs-kde.ymp. So we back to the begin.
I think the problem is because packman not only provides "non-restricted" versions of the needed multimedia packages, but also upgrades. Maybe they could make a repo without "upgrades" :-?
and with a 'common' ffmpeg :-?
As to the gnome/kde repos, I don't know why they are necesary for multimedia. Are they?
Depending on what you define multimedia. I for example need gimp 2.4 thus I need gnome-stable if I want it easy. Carlos don't get me wrong. I know by now how to help myself but it cost me IMO way too much time to figure it all out. Nevertheless, based on my experience with opensuse, I do understand the frustration of some users new to this distro. - -- All the best, Peter J. P-N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info/ http://www.aedon.eu/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH59xBh8q3OtgoGAwRAoWCAJ48XZGa+AVpAh40CVv+ik5sK/fVTwCeIdpZ 9mckyoa6zlwwWR8xPdJYE8Y= =A5li -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 [ This is the third time I send this email, but the list silently discards it :-/ ] The Monday 2008-03-24 at 17:52 +0100, Peter J. P-N wrote:
Carlos E. R. schrieb:
I'm no coder and my system is productive ;-)
Well if the official repositories are enough to make your system 'productive' for your profession that's just great. But unfortunately for my profession, I'm a photographer and media designer, they are not.
Ah, I see. Well, what I do when I can is that I compile myself the extras I need: thus, no conflicts. Not everybody is inclined to do that, or simply can't.
So when tried to install those missing programs from those unofficial repositories one gonna recognize that packman bits gnome-stable or videolan bits packman. Thus I don't wonder if some folks gets frustrated.
Yes, that's a problem. It has always been a problem for all linux users, and will probably continue to be so for ages, unfortunately. Legally, suse/novell can not provide those multimedia packages.
I know this. However mandriva has found a solution for that issue with their pawerpack. Why not providing software such way also for the opensuse community? Such a dual channel distribution might prove useful.
Dunno. I don't know what "pawerpack" is.
Explanations here: http://en.opensuse.org/Restricted_Formats
* The software is proprietary software, it does not conform to the Open Source definition.
Well Novell does provide Adobe Acrobat although it ain't open source.
So the acrobat license is no impediment. Other licenses for other products are.
* The software is providing functionality which is patented and the patent holder is preventing distribution of the software
Why not buy the license on bulk or on access basis and redistribute it to the community by charging a fee?
It is not as simple as that. For instance, did you know that not all the legal problems are posed by the proprietary camp? One of the problems is that some possible solutions would be a mixture of open and closed software... and that is mostly impossible. Somebody wrote a long explanation on that. Let me try to find it. [...] Here: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2005-10/msg00238.html
* The software violates laws concerning software distribution in jurisdictions where Novell conducts business.
I think that nobody expect Novell to provide libdvdcss.
Oh, yes, many people! Till they know better. I know many people that do not care about "legalities". They just want the software to work, legally or illegally.
a solution here: http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats
Those solutions depend on unofficial repositories. Please check the content of e.g. codecs-kde.ymp. So we back to the begin.
I know.
I think the problem is because packman not only provides "non-restricted" versions of the needed multimedia packages, but also upgrades. Maybe they could make a repo without "upgrades" :-?
and with a 'common' ffmpeg :-?
Dunno. If we need a different ffmpeg, then do have it, but of the same version number, so that dependencies do not break. What I think we need, usually, is not a newer version, but one that doesn't disable the features we need. Mind, I don't know if it is possible. It's just an idea.
As to the gnome/kde repos, I don't know why they are necesary for multimedia. Are they?
Depending on what you define multimedia. I for example need gimp 2.4 thus I need gnome-stable if I want it easy.
Ah, I see. Looking on: http://packages.opensuse-community.org/index.jsp?searchTerm=gimp&distro=openSUSE_103 I see there are other repos containing gimp.
Carlos don't get me wrong. I know by now how to help myself but it cost me IMO way too much time to figure it all out.
Possibly.
Nevertheless, based on my experience with opensuse, I do understand the frustration of some users new to this distro.
I understand that, but it is not zypper fault, which was the point. A rant maybe necessary to vent frustration, but it is not going to help us getting things solved. Linux has its set of problems, and opensuse has its set, and each distro will have theirs... just find the one that is more suited to each person, and use it. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFH6U4EtTMYHG2NR9URAjchAJ4xziDAfTr1vfzGC3FBVA0yreZlKgCdE7B1 D7zmmgekAJa+lQFGYvJCP8E= =p7Z8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (11)
-
Basil Chupin -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Jeremy Baker -
Marcus Meissner -
Michael Schroeder -
Mike -
Patrick Shanahan -
Peter J. P-N -
Philipp Thomas -
Rajko M.