"Because computer source code is an expressive means for the exchange of information and ideas about computer programming, we hold that it is protected by the First Amendment."
oapbox on: You may hold that, but I've got big news for you: There are people out there with enough money to bury you and I, and a million more like us before lunch. They are people whose greed goes beyond our ability even to fathom it, let alone deal with it and who think that the constitution and the bill of rights are their own playthings. They are also people who have so much power and influence with government(s) that it is reasonable to say that they "own" those governments. These people have every intention of "owning" all software, including what YOU create, AND important open source software too ("NO," you say? Oh yes they can. All they need to do is what our government has already done many times before: pass a law that says it's OK for them to steal it). And it will be far easier for them to succeed than any of us can possibly guess. One only has to imagine what the very near future MUST be like with reference to the part computers will play in our lives to realize that OS's and other major software MUST be open-source or the system won't work/progress at all. But we cannot take a passive role, hoping that the open source framework will endure and protect us. It won't. When someone with enough power decides they need to own it badly enough, they will. The only possibility we have of a successful defense is to be more cunning and quicker than they are. We need better safeguards, in fact at least two of them: 1. We need to build a new impenetrable internet that the government cannot spy on or control. Until now the internet has been a new frontier of freedom. Unfortunately, that is already over. You can't sneeze on the internet without anyone who wants to know about it finding out. 2. We need to "recruit" programmers to the open source movement with a zeal that outstrips any religion to date, so that when the day comes that someone wants to steal open source software from us, there are simply not enough cooperative programmers out there for them to pull it off. It is treason within our own ranks that is more likely (lesson of history) to sink us than anything else. (Don't think so!? Ask any photographer. Idiot photographers willing to severly undercut price and surrender their copyrights to boot, have turned most of the photographic profession into people getting little more than K-Mart wages, bowing and scraping for their corporate masters.) We also need these new recruits because the development of open source software is not fast enough. We need the final success of the open source movement to be so swift and overwhelming that the bad guys have insufficient time to react. Make no mistake about it; open source is THE answer. It is the way things HAVE to be. Yet, the success of open source will cost incredibly powerful people untold fortunes already made, and yet to be made. These people will NOT take it lying down. And if you give it some thought you will realize there is more at stake here than just free software and corporate greed. Software is the NEW FRONTIER of totalitarianism. Who controls the world's operating system, controls the world itself! oapbox off David Kachel -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Greed and corruption has not won the battle yet, even though our current politicians are the most corrupt president, congressmen and senators the USA has ever seen, and our corporations are the most greedy, ruthless and immoral as I can ever recall or read about. The old Robber Barrons have nothing over Bill Gates and his kind. And even though my gut feelings tell me the fix is in and Gates has fed enough swine at his hog trough to escape justice, I still believe justice will triumph in the end. JLK On Wed, 05 Apr 2000, dkphoto wrote:
"Because computer source code is an expressive means for the exchange of information and ideas about computer programming, we hold that it is protected by the First Amendment."
soapbox on:
You may hold that, but I've got big news for you: There are people out there with enough money to bury you and I, and a million more like us before lunch. They are people whose greed goes beyond our ability even to fathom it, let alone deal with it and who think that the constitution and the bill of rights are their own playthings. They are also people who have so much power and influence with government(s) that it is reasonable to say that they "own" those governments. These people have every intention of "owning" all software, including what YOU create, AND important open source software too ("NO," you say? Oh yes they can. All they need to do is what our government has already done many times before: pass a law that says it's OK for them to steal it). And it will be far easier for them to succeed than any of us can possibly guess.
One only has to imagine what the very near future MUST be like with reference to the part computers will play in our lives to realize that OS's and other major software MUST be open-source or the system won't work/progress at all. But we cannot take a passive role, hoping that the open source framework will endure and protect us. It won't. When someone with enough power decides they need to own it badly enough, they will. The only possibility we have of a successful defense is to be more cunning and quicker than they are.
We need better safeguards, in fact at least two of them:
1. We need to build a new impenetrable internet that the government cannot spy on or control. Until now the internet has been a new frontier of freedom. Unfortunately, that is already over. You can't sneeze on the internet without anyone who wants to know about it finding out.
2. We need to "recruit" programmers to the open source movement with a zeal that outstrips any religion to date, so that when the day comes that someone wants to steal open source software from us, there are simply not enough cooperative programmers out there for them to pull it off. It is treason within our own ranks that is more likely (lesson of history) to sink us than anything else. (Don't think so!? Ask any photographer. Idiot photographers willing to severly undercut price and surrender their copyrights to boot, have turned most of the photographic profession into people getting little more than K-Mart wages, bowing and scraping for their corporate masters.) We also need these new recruits because the development of open source software is not fast enough. We need the final success of the open source movement to be so swift and overwhelming that the bad guys have insufficient time to react.
Make no mistake about it; open source is THE answer. It is the way things HAVE to be. Yet, the success of open source will cost incredibly powerful people untold fortunes already made, and yet to be made. These people will NOT take it lying down. And if you give it some thought you will realize there is more at stake here than just free software and corporate greed. Software is the NEW FRONTIER of totalitarianism. Who controls the world's operating system, controls the world itself!
soapbox off
David Kachel
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-- __ _ / / (_)__ __ ____ __ * Powerful * Flexible * Compatible * Reliable * / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / *Well Supported * Thousands of New Users Every Day* /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ The Cost Effective Choice - Linux Means Business! -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
On Wed, 05 Apr 2000, Jerry L Kreps wrote:
even though our current politicians are the most corrupt president, congressmen and senators the USA has ever seen, and our corporations are the most greedy, ruthless and immoral as I can ever recall or read about.
I'm sorry, but I just can't let this go unchallenged. Open a history book and read about, say the administration of U. S. Grant. Then, perhaps, you'll not make such asinine statements. -- Kenneth R. Kellum -- San Jose State University I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. Oh shit. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
On Thu, 06 Apr 2000, Kenneth Kellum wrote:
On Wed, 05 Apr 2000, Jerry L Kreps wrote:
even though our current politicians are the most corrupt president, congressmen and senators the USA has ever seen, and our corporations are the most greedy, ruthless and immoral as I can ever recall or read about.
I'm sorry, but I just can't let this go unchallenged.
Open a history book and read about, say the administration of U. S. Grant. Then, perhaps, you'll not make such asinine statements.
I'm familiar with Grant, and Cleavland's mistress, Hoover's aids, and Kennedy's affairs, but no previous president has had the total volume of sleeze and corruption, to say nothing of selling missle technology to China (which puts us both at risk considering their leaders attitude about populations) for campaign contributions. If you or I were to lie in court under oath we would be in jail faster than you could say "I didn't have an affiar with that woman" or faster than you could sift through Foster's office to remove evidence. ONLY one FBI file sent a Nixon aid to jail, but with 900+ FBI files laying around the Whitehouse they still can't figure out who hired those two bumbs. The Dems called one file a constitutional crisis but, now that the shoe is on the other foot , 900 files is no big thing. Ya, right. Like Al Gore said, "no controlling legal authority"... The top legal officers in the land. Gates looks like a choir boy next to them. And the Reps aren't any better. Open you other eye and take a look around. The left has been dominating and destroying free speech at our academic intstitutions for years. You CAN'T express a politcal view divergent from the Leftists and remain as a campus news paper writer, or even have a campus club supported by student funds unless you toe the Marxist line. Why is that bubba?
-- Kenneth R. Kellum -- San Jose State University I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. Oh shit. That's your problem. You think others know better what is good for you than you do yourself. Start taking responsibility for your own actions and cut loose from the Socialist teat.
-- __ _ / / (_)__ __ ____ __ * Powerful * Flexible * Compatible * Reliable * / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / *Well Supported * Thousands of New Users Every Day* /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ The Cost Effective Choice - Linux Means Business! -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
* Jerry L Kreps (JerryKreps@alltel.net) [20000406 13:52]:
for years. You CAN'T express a politcal view divergent from the Leftists and remain as a campus news paper writer, or even have a campus club supported by student funds unless you toe the Marxist line. Why is that bubba?
Folks PLEASE! This is suse-linux-e and not alt.politics. So could you *please* stop this
discussion or move it to private mail? Thank you.
And yes, Jerry, I did notice the subject. Your mail was just the hook I used
:)
Philipp
--
Philipp Thomas
I totally agree. Look at some of our past business leaders like Gould and Fisk in the latter part of the 1800s. Look at Warren Harding's administration. That does not excuse our current president though. Kenneth Kellum wrote:
On Wed, 05 Apr 2000, Jerry L Kreps wrote:
even though our current politicians are the most corrupt president, congressmen and senators the USA has ever seen, and our corporations are the most greedy, ruthless and immoral as I can ever recall or read about.
I'm sorry, but I just can't let this go unchallenged.
Open a history book and read about, say the administration of U. S. Grant. Then, perhaps, you'll not make such asinine statements.
-- Kenneth R. Kellum -- San Jose State University I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. Oh shit.
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com
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--
Jerry Feldman
I've noticed in /var/log/messages, that I get the error "modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module net-pf-10" everytime I start Netscape 6. Is this a problem? -- Jim Sabatke SuSE 6.3 Linux Kernel - 2.2.13 Never fight with a pig. You both get covered with mud, and the pig likes it. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
* dkphoto
soapbox on:
[long, fanatical rant.]
soapbox off
I don't know... I think you should get out more often. That attitude only will scare away the very people who can make open source/free software a success: average users. david. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Interssting that you can put your encryption code down on paper , stuff it in an envolope and mail it overseas under freedom of speech , yet once you compile it , younthen come under export restrictions. Just look at our goverment now ie restrictions , size , regulations , goverment programs , and what they looked like 50 years aago , 100 years ago and 200 years ago. Quit interesting how the "peaples rights" keep geting narrower and narrower , while the "govermant" increasingly tells us how and what to do . Much more intrusive . Just check out some of the peaple who have lost the value of there land , becouse some burcrat decides there may be some sort of endangered species ( just a possibility but no PROOF) or that it is now considered wet lands. Just wait till this comes into the computer and network world. any one here herd of "project echalon" and what its being used for ? severl forenge countrys in eourope are looking inot it regardinfg comercial espionige ect... Its so sevret they refuse to tell congress what it is.. Was it roosevelt who took the trian to his inogeration , as oposed to the whole hoopalaa today ? I think it was ? cant quit pin it down. Too bad every thing is now run by carreer politions and the common man no lomger participates. Well exept for jesse the mond maybee. At 08:50 PM 4/5/2000 -0600, dkphoto wrote:
"Because computer source code is an expressive means for the exchange of information and ideas about computer programming, we hold that it is protected by the First Amendment."
soapbox on:
You may hold that, but I've got big news for you: There are people out there with enough money to bury you and I, and a million more like us before lunch. They are people whose greed goes beyond our ability even to fathom it, let alone deal with it and who think that the constitution and the bill of rights are their own playthings. They are also people who have so much power and influence with government(s) that it is reasonable to say that they "own" those governments. These people have every intention of "owning" all software, including what YOU create, AND important open source software too ("NO," you say? Oh yes they can. All they need to do is what our government has already done many times before: pass a law that says it's OK for them to steal it). And it will be far easier for them to succeed than any of us can possibly guess.
One only has to imagine what the very near future MUST be like with reference to the part computers will play in our lives to realize that OS's and other major software MUST be open-source or the system won't work/progress at all. But we cannot take a passive role, hoping that the open source framework will endure and protect us. It won't. When someone with enough power decides they need to own it badly enough, they will. The only possibility we have of a successful defense is to be more cunning and quicker than they are.
We need better safeguards, in fact at least two of them:
1. We need to build a new impenetrable internet that the government cannot spy on or control. Until now the internet has been a new frontier of freedom. Unfortunately, that is already over. You can't sneeze on the internet without anyone who wants to know about it finding out.
2. We need to "recruit" programmers to the open source movement with a zeal that outstrips any religion to date, so that when the day comes that someone wants to steal open source software from us, there are simply not enough cooperative programmers out there for them to pull it off. It is treason within our own ranks that is more likely (lesson of history) to sink us than anything else. (Don't think so!? Ask any photographer. Idiot photographers willing to severly undercut price and surrender their copyrights to boot, have turned most of the photographic profession into people getting little more than K-Mart wages, bowing and scraping for their corporate masters.) We also need these new recruits because the development of open source software is not fast enough. We need the final success of the open source movement to be so swift and overwhelming that the bad guys have insufficient time to react.
Make no mistake about it; open source is THE answer. It is the way things HAVE to be. Yet, the success of open source will cost incredibly powerful people untold fortunes already made, and yet to be made. These people will NOT take it lying down. And if you give it some thought you will realize there is more at stake here than just free software and corporate greed. Software is the NEW FRONTIER of totalitarianism. Who controls the world's operating system, controls the world itself!
soapbox off
David Kachel
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Let's put this into perspetive. Recently, on vacation, I visited New Salem state park in Illinois. This was Abrabam Lincoln's home in his youth. I learned that in Lincoln's time the amount inns could charge for a night's lodging and food was set by state law to 3 bits. Can you imagine such intrusion into private business today? For another, as recently as 50 years ago it was illegal for persons not of the same race to marry in California. Whatever you may think about interracial marriage, this was quite a restriction on personal rights. I grew up in the deep South in the days of segregation. I can assure you that, in many ways, we are all much freer than we were then. I'm not suggesting that the problems you raise aren't real. All the hyperbole, though, just detracts from the point you're trying to make. On Thu, 06 Apr 2000, Samy Elashmawy wrote: <snip>
Just look at our goverment now ie restrictions , size , regulations , goverment programs , and what they looked like 50 years aago , 100 years ago and 200 years ago. Quit interesting how the "peaples rights" keep geting narrower and narrower , while the "govermant" increasingly tells us how and what to do .
David Kachel
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-- Kenneth R. Kellum -- San Jose State University I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. Oh shit. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
participants (8)
-
dkphoto＠cyber-wire.com -
gaf＠gaf.ne.mediaone.net -
jcm＠bigskytel.com -
JerryKreps＠alltel.net -
jsabatke＠execpc.com -
kkellum＠pacbell.net -
pthomas＠suse.de -
samelash＠ix.netcom.com