Greg Freemyer wrote:

On 1/20/07, StephenW wrote:

...

As the original poster perhaps I should have added a bit of explaination for posting. So, I shall.

I also work as a technical support person in an educational setting that is moving away from a "mixed platform" to a Windows only scenario. The mixed platform came about way back when the local school had choice. The district in now in charge of all hardware decisions. I began two years ago working with Mac (OS 8.0 thru 10.3.8) and Windows (95 thru WindowsXP SP2). Thanks be that in the last year the decision was made that I am no longer expected to keep everything working. What is left are the Macs running 9.2 or better and only the machines running XP - eventually all Macs are scheduled for replacement.

I doubt I need to go into the problems I face working with machines that come with the user having administrator privileges... and even worse not being able to remove them because some of the programs need those privileges to function. This is especially onerous when teachers go away and leave computers running in that mode and students have access - you can guess some of the consequences.

I keep looking for OSS programs that will do the same thing as the MS based programs and have installed a couple of them (e.g., Firefox and OpenOffice). I am afraid it is a losing battle since more and more companies are only writting educational software for Mac or MS. One example is seen in our district deciding to install ActivBoards in every classroom in the district (a multi-million dollar action). It is a great piece of technology but more firmly locks the sytem to MS (or Mac). Not to mention the use of SmartWeb and Excent (online tools for teachers' records and reporting) written specifically for Windows - and jury rigged to function somewhat on a Mac. Look as I may there is no way this kind of software can be countered.

It appears that in spite of my desire to see OSS make more inroads it is not going to happen in the desktop application arena.

Or, there any clout in a group like this to do anything - except solve our own problems in our own little worlds?

StephenW

PS I am still a novice in my pursuit of understanding and using linux - including lists such as this. The one LUG in my area fell apart sometime ago. I need to look about to see if they have been revived.

Stephen,

The Atlanta Public School systems has allowed at least one school to totally drop MS and go with Linux thin clients instead. IIRC, most of the apps run on Linux Servers thus significantly reducing IT support issues.

See http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.ale/41302

for a good posting about it. FYI: ALE is my LUG.

If you want to know more details I suggest you google "Daniel Howard Atlanta" and you will find a couple of news articles written about his experience.

Also, many of his other postings to the ALE list are relevant: http://search.gmane.org/?query=atlanta&author=Daniel+Howard+&group=&sort=relevance&DEFAULTOP=and&%3C=Previous&TOPDOC=10&xP=atlanta&xFILTERS=Adaniel+howard+---A

Greg StephenW you have a linux group in the area www.melug-central.org

-- Hans Krueger hkr@hanskruegerenterprizes.com mailto:hanskrueger@adelphia.net registered Linux user 289023 411024 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

I used to work as a Network Administrator for a mid-sized school district. This was several years ago, and OSS has progressed a good deal since. However, the issue of Windows only software was significant then. Our technology director would have loved to see Linux desktops, but too many programs required Windows specifically. This seems to be more the case in lower level programs (Kindergarten - Middle School) and less true in High School. Without Linux ports of Reader Rabbit, etc.. it is nearly impossible to provide an OSS based desktop. Even using LTSP or something to reduce hardware costs is not acceptable if parents/teachers have the impression they can't run the "best of breed" applications required for students (and touted in parenting and teaching publications). In High School I found other barriers to adoption. There is a grant in the state in which I reside providing financial incentive to teach information technology classes. Unfortunately, this grant is worded in such a way that only certain software qualifies for inclusion. To get the grant money the school must use Microsoft Office and not any alternative for InfoTech curriculum. This doesn't even factor state endorsed grading software, published information, ActiveX government websites, etc.. It truly is difficult. We made strides were we could.. Firefox as default HTML association, OpenOffice at points of least resistance and included alongside MS Office on all machines. We even had some Linux public terminals for web access, etc... Even with the significant benefits available to Linux, at least, in the state of Michigan there are soo many obstacles out of control of the districts preventing a full move. WINE can help and so can clever use of Citrix or other terminal services, but only so far. I think it's possible for a mixed environment, but it would be VERY hard to get a full OSS environment. Now for the backend (servers) this is a completely different story. Ryan Quoting Greg Freemyer :

On 1/20/07, StephenW wrote:

...

As the original poster perhaps I should have added a bit of explaination for posting. So, I shall.

I also work as a technical support person in an educational setting that is moving away from a "mixed platform" to a Windows only scenario. The mixed platform came about way back when the local school had choice. The district in now in charge of all hardware decisions. I began two years ago working with Mac (OS 8.0 thru 10.3.8) and Windows (95 thru WindowsXP SP2). Thanks be that in the last year the decision was made that I am no longer expected to keep everything working. What is left are the Macs running 9.2 or better and only the machines running XP - eventually all Macs are scheduled for replacement.

I doubt I need to go into the problems I face working with machines that come with the user having administrator privileges... and even worse not being able to remove them because some of the programs need those privileges to function. This is especially onerous when teachers go away and leave computers running in that mode and students have access - you can guess some of the consequences.

I keep looking for OSS programs that will do the same thing as the MS based programs and have installed a couple of them (e.g., Firefox and OpenOffice). I am afraid it is a losing battle since more and more companies are only writting educational software for Mac or MS. One example is seen in our district deciding to install ActivBoards in every classroom in the district (a multi-million dollar action). It is a great piece of technology but more firmly locks the sytem to MS (or Mac). Not to mention the use of SmartWeb and Excent (online tools for teachers' records and reporting) written specifically for Windows - and jury rigged to function somewhat on a Mac. Look as I may there is no way this kind of software can be countered.

It appears that in spite of my desire to see OSS make more inroads it is not going to happen in the desktop application arena.

Or, there any clout in a group like this to do anything - except solve our own problems in our own little worlds?

StephenW

PS I am still a novice in my pursuit of understanding and using linux - including lists such as this. The one LUG in my area fell apart sometime ago. I need to look about to see if they have been revived.

Stephen,

The Atlanta Public School systems has allowed at least one school to totally drop MS and go with Linux thin clients instead. IIRC, most of the apps run on Linux Servers thus significantly reducing IT support issues.

See http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.ale/41302

for a good posting about it. FYI: ALE is my LUG.

If you want to know more details I suggest you google "Daniel Howard Atlanta" and you will find a couple of news articles written about his experience.

Also, many of his other postings to the ALE list are relevant: http://search.gmane.org/?query=atlanta&author=Daniel+Howard+&group=&sort=relevance&DEFAULTOP=and&%3C=Previous&TOPDOC=10&xP=atlanta&xFILTERS=Adaniel+howard+---A

Greg -- Greg Freemyer The Norcross Group Forensics for the 21st Century -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Monday January 22 2007 12:19 pm, rkather@missionpenguin.com wrote:

Even with the significant benefits available to Linux, at least, in the state of Michigan there are soo many obstacles out of control of the districts preventing a full move.  WINE can help and so can clever use of Citrix or other terminal services, but only so far.

Class action lawsuits might be the answer, as the State PREVENTS one from getting a quality IT education. 'LOVE to see someone take them to court!! Fred -- MickySoft, the ultimate corporate parasite. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org