On 2014-03-21 20:49, Greg Freemyer wrote:

As one of the old foggies around here, I'll say use SSH, but I know a lot of people want a X interface.

"ssh -Y" gives you secure access to graphical tools, instead of transmitting the entire desktop over internet. The problem is, of course, you can not look at an already running GUI app. So, it depends on what app you need to run. I'm not familiar with bitcoin apps. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

Damian Ivanov wrote:

Teamviewer. It's closed source but free for personal use. It requires no additional configuration.

Why should it be necessary to use 3rd party software to accomplish what has been standard with Unix & Linux since the dark ages? Remote desktops has long been available not just for connecting to other computers, but also X terminals. I was thinking, not too long ago, that a Raspberry Pie might make a decent X terminal. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Why should it be necessary to use 3rd party software to accomplish what

...

has been standard with Unix & Linux since the dark ages? Well, Teamviewer is multiplatform, for instance. And it is easy to connect to destinations without fixed IPs, or across routers, AFAIK.

Well, that may be, but it doesn't answer the question of why it's suddenly necessary to use 3rd party software, when it wasn't before. This is something that used to work well, but hasn't worked since 11.4. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Being a 3d party software doesn't make it bad/evil software. I knew somebody would ask that but I did hope to not need to write a long answer.... 1) 0 configuration 2) auto chooses ports etc 3) has clients for lin/win/osx/android 4) features like chat & drag and drop, voip, single program sharing (like ssh with an X app) and more 5) configuration of vnc/rdp suck in advanced configuration (and I won't spend another 5min to explain why) PS: ssh -X is bullshit *popcorn* 2014-03-22 23:11 GMT+02:00 Felix Miata :

On 2014-03-22 16:57 (GMT-0400) James Knott composed:

...

This is something that used to work well, but hasn't worked since 11.4.

U suppose it wuz sumthin that functioned based on time-tested sysvinit tradition? Lotta that stuff broke after 11.4, when OS was "blessed" with with an "upgrade" called systemd that made sysvinit obsolete/deprecated/unmaintained/whatever. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/

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Hi Carlos, Remote control of a single application is a valid use-case I do agree with this too ;) But the implementation is not good. Such a thing built-in into the X server is the bad choice. One could have done that in the toolkits Qt/gtk (Qt rules *popcorn*) so even your remote app could use your font/icon theme etc. Have a nice day! 2014-03-22 23:48 GMT+02:00 Carlos E. R. :

On 2014-03-22 22:38, Damian Ivanov wrote:

...

Being a 3d party software doesn't make it bad/evil software. I knew somebody would ask that but I did hope to not need to write a long answer.... 1) 0 configuration 2) auto chooses ports etc 3) has clients for lin/win/osx/android 4) features like chat & drag and drop, voip, single program sharing (like ssh with an X app) and more 5) configuration of vnc/rdp suck in advanced configuration (and I won't spend another 5min to explain why)

I agree with this...

...

PS: ssh -X is bullshit *popcorn*

But I do not agree with this. It is very useful, I use it every day.

-- Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

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Hello Linda, If it's slow for you I honestly think you're doing it wrong (I've used it from my android phone which had a limit set at 128 kbit/s and it was somewhat usable) I don't say a good speed isn't needed but that I find the implementation at Xserver level suitable for 1980. For the 21 century the implementation is retarded. I never stated popcorn is produced by bullshit. *popcorn* is a statement commonly found in Germany for readers of Fefe's blog. One uses it to express pleasant anticipation for an upcoming discussion. Bullshit as suffix of the ssh command means that "I find the current implementation is mentally retarded for the year 2014". One uses so named "buzz words" (like bullshit) to emphasize. You either do not understand that or you just wanted sarcastically to tell me I used a buzz word. I knew I did. That's why I wrote it. Have a nice day! :) 2014-03-23 2:18 GMT+02:00 Linda Walsh :

Damian Ivanov wrote:

...

Being a 3d party software doesn't make it bad/evil software. I knew somebody would ask that but I did hope to not need to write a long answer.... 1) 0 configuration 2) auto chooses ports etc 3) has clients for lin/win/osx/android 4) features like chat & drag and drop, voip, single program sharing (like ssh with an X app) and more 5) configuration of vnc/rdp suck in advanced configuration (and I won't spend another 5min to explain why)

PS: ssh -X is bullshit *popcorn*

Teamviewer has some nice features, but it is dog slow over many people's internet connections (like my parents...ARG)....

ssh is a reliable tool that looks like a jet next to teamviewer, besides, I don't think there is a product 'popcorn' produced by bovine excrement.

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simple: X11 applications via ssh suck. Above where you quoted me was for Linda not for you. 2014-03-23 4:45 GMT+02:00 Carlos E. R. :

On 2014-03-23 01:42, Damian Ivanov wrote:

...

You either do not understand that or you just wanted sarcastically to tell me I used a buzz word. I knew I did. That's why I wrote it.

Well, I did not understand that sentence at all. Something derogatory re ssh, but what exactly you wanted to express was totally lost on me.

You should avoid expressions here that can only be understood by some of the international audience, not all of us.

-- Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

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On 2014-03-23 03:55, Damian Ivanov wrote:

simple: X11 applications via ssh suck.

I do not agree. They work fine here.

Above where you quoted me was for Linda not for you.

I know, but I also did not understand your sentence. Linda said something, I did not. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

Carlos E. R. wrote:

"ssh -Y" gives you secure access to graphical tools, instead of transmitting the entire desktop over internet. The problem is, of course, you can not look at an already running GUI app.

I hadn't seen -Y mentioned until recently... It simply circumvents the need for using the Xaccess and security controls that normally arbitrate access to your Xserver by telling the Xserver it is 'trusted'. Both ways -- with or without -Y default to reseting DISPLAY to localhost:xxxx -- an encrypted port forwarding mechanism that is usually on by default. You have to go out of your way to get a clear X channel to your server & set it up manually (which is what you DO want to do on a close network or cluster config) where your network traffic is safe. In my case, while I could afford 2 10Gb cards, I the routers/switches that allowed aggregation (would have equaled the cost of 4-5 cards by itself), so I use a direct connect cable between the two computers -- not that it is safe from the NSA, but neither is ssh... ;-/ ------------- On the original question -- Remote Desktop software (xrdp) exists for linux -- and, like xdmcp, it used to work -- fairly well but doesn't work in 13.1 (I can see the login box, but apparently it can't find a font to use -- as there is no text... *sigh*... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

В Sun, 23 Mar 2014 15:07:25 +0100 "Carlos E. R." пишет:

On 2014-03-23 01:10, Linda Walsh wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

"ssh -Y" gives you secure access to graphical tools, instead of transmitting the entire desktop over internet. The problem is, of course, you can not look at an already running GUI app.

---

I hadn't seen -Y mentioned until recently...

There is "ssh -X", and "ssh -Y". I understand that "ssh -Y" is safer,

No, it is exactly the opposite.

but maybe I got it wrong?

It is usually local network in my case, anyway.

* Damian Ivanov [03-23-14 13:54]:

"Carlos E. R." wrote:

...

...

I do not agree. They work fine here. Yes they work fine, that doesn't mean it's well done for 21st century (it's shit).

Good that this shit will be gone forever with wayland&mir (which will still be capable to show apps remotely but not that way).

2014-03-23 17:12 GMT+02:00 Andrey Borzenkov :

...

В Sun, 23 Mar 2014 15:07:25 +0100 "Carlos E. R." пишет:

...

On 2014-03-23 01:10, Linda Walsh wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

"ssh -Y" gives you secure access to graphical tools, instead of transmitting the entire desktop over internet. The problem is, of course, you can not look at an already running GUI app.

---

I hadn't seen -Y mentioned until recently...

There is "ssh -X", and "ssh -Y". I understand that "ssh -Y" is safer,

No, it is exactly the opposite.

...

but maybe I got it wrong?

It is usually local network in my case, anyway.

YOU *should* endeavour to become more familiar with the chosen language for this forum that you find a better manner for expressing yourself! You might also read the suggestions about the proper manner of message composition: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette#Use_bottom-posting_... -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2011/08/thoughts-about-network-trancpa... or google "x11 network transparency sucks" 2014-03-23 19:58 GMT+01:00 Carlos E. R. :

On 2014-03-23 18:53, Damian Ivanov wrote:

...

"Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...

...

I do not agree. They work fine here. Yes they work fine, that doesn't mean it's well done for 21st century (it's shit).

Why? What exact fault do you find with ssh?

And please, no bad language, and please, adhere to the netiquette rules of these email lists.

-- Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

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On Mar 24 2014 08:08, James Knott wrote:

Andrew English wrote:

...

Will be remoting from an Windows machine either locally or over the internet. So there has to be a Windows client/viewer available.

There are Windows X servers available. I used to use one, but don't recall it's name at the moment. Unfortunately with XDMCP broken in openSUSE, I don't know how useful they'd be now.

using opensuse12.3, xdm, xdmcp, icewm works well with Windows' Xming over ethernet. But too slow via Internet/VPN. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Mar 24 2014 10:57, James Knott wrote:

Paul Neuwirth wrote:

...

using opensuse12.3, xdm, xdmcp, icewm works well with Windows' Xming over ethernet. But too slow via Internet/VPN.

Xming was the one I was thinking of. I used it at work a couple of years ago with openSUSE 11.4.

How is it possible to get XDMCP to work with 13.1? I have a couple of systems running it here and they can't even see each other in the list when trying to run a remote session. I have been using XDMCP for years, but not since I switched to 12.x and now 13.1.

could not live without it.. many thin clients running on this server.. xorg-x11-server-7.6_1.13.2-1.21.1.x86_64 xdm-1.1.10-14.10.1.x86_64 from the update repo this is my config on 12.3 -tell me if i forgot something essential- /etc/sysconfig/displaymanager DISPLAYMANAGER="xdm" DISPLAYMANAGER_REMOTE_ACCESS="yes" DISPLAYMANAGER_ROOT_LOGIN_REMOTE="no" DISPLAYMANAGER_STARTS_XSERVER="yes" DISPLAYMANAGER_XSERVER_TCP_PORT_6000_OPEN="yes" KDM_USERS="" KDM_GREETSTRING="" DISPLAYMANAGER_AUTOLOGIN="" DISPLAYMANAGER_PASSWORD_LESS_LOGIN="no" DISPLAYMANAGER_KDM_THEME="SUSE" DISPLAYMANAGER_AD_INTEGRATION="no" DISPLAYMANAGER_SHUTDOWN="root" DISPLAYMANAGER_XSERVER="Xorg" DISPLAYMANAGER_XGL_OPTS="-accel glx:pbuffer -accel xv:pbuffer" DISPLAYMANAGER_RANDR_MODE_VGA="auto" DISPLAYMANAGER_RANDR_MODE_auto="1024x768_60 64.11 1024 1080 1184 1344 768 769 772 795 -HSync +Vsync" DISPLAYMANAGER_KDM_LOCALARGS="" /etc/sysconfig/windowmanager DEFAULT_WM="icewm" INSTALL_DESKTOP_EXTENSIONS="yes" X_MOUSE_CURSOR="crystalwhite" KDE_BUILD_GLOBAL_SYCOCA="initial" KDE_USE_IPV6="no" KDE_USE_IDN="yes" /etc/X11/xdm/xdm-config DisplayManager.errorLogFile: /var/log/xdm.errors DisplayManager.pidFile: /var/run/xdm.pid DisplayManager.authDir: /var/lib/xdm DisplayManager.keyFile: /etc/X11/xdm/xdm-keys DisplayManager.servers: /etc/X11/xdm/Xservers DisplayManager.accessFile: /etc/X11/xdm/Xaccess DisplayManager.willing: su nobody -c /etc/X11/xdm/Xwilling DisplayManager.*.authName: MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 DisplayManager.*.authComplain: false DisplayManager._0.authorize: true DisplayManager._1.authorize: true DisplayManager._93.authorize: true DisplayManager.*.setup: /etc/X11/xdm/Xsetup DisplayManager.*.chooser: /etc/X11/xdm/RunChooser DisplayManager.*.startup: /etc/X11/xdm/Xstartup DisplayManager.*.session: /etc/X11/xdm/Xsession DisplayManager.*.reset: /etc/X11/xdm/Xreset DisplayManager._0.terminateServer: true DisplayManager._93.terminateServer: true DisplayManager*resources: /etc/X11/xdm/Xresources DisplayManager.*.terminateServer: false /etc/X11/xdm/Xaccess * #any host can get a login window * CHOOSER BROADCAST #any indirect host can get a chooser LISTEN 0.0.0.0 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Paul Neuwirth wrote:

...

On Mar 24 2014 10:57, James Knott wrote:

...

Paul Neuwirth wrote:

...

using opensuse12.3, xdm, xdmcp, icewm works well with Windows' Xming over ethernet. But too slow via Internet/VPN.

Xming was the one I was thinking of. I used it at work a couple of years ago with openSUSE 11.4.

How is it possible to get XDMCP to work with 13.1? I have a couple of systems running it here and they can't even see each other in the list when trying to run a remote session. I have been using XDMCP for years, but not since I switched to 12.x and now 13.1.

could not live without it.. many thin clients running on this server..

xorg-x11-server-7.6_1.13.2-1.21.1.x86_64 xdm-1.1.10-14.10.1.x86_64

I'm using later versions with 13.1

...

from the update repo

this is my config on 12.3 -tell me if i forgot something essential-

/etc/sysconfig/displaymanager DISPLAYMANAGER="xdm" I'm using KDM didn't manage to get xdmcp work with kdm or gdm in 12.x, but no problem with xdm DISPLAYMANAGER_REMOTE_ACCESS="yes" Yes DISPLAYMANAGER_ROOT_LOGIN_REMOTE="no" DISPLAYMANAGER_STARTS_XSERVER="yes" DISPLAYMANAGER_XSERVER_TCP_PORT_6000_OPEN="yes" It's set to no. The configuration says it should only be used when necessary and on trusted networks. I have never had to change this. it is blocked on untrusted networks using iptables. without this enabled no xdmcp connections can be opened.

On Mar 24 2014 11:29, James Knott wrote: this is the only port X listens on: netstat -tulpe | grep /X tcp 0 0 *:6000 *:* LISTEN root 80449 13576/X tcp 0 0 *:6000 *:* LISTEN root 80448 13576/X -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

James Knott wrote:

Paul Neuwirth wrote:

...

using opensuse12.3, xdm, xdmcp, icewm works well with Windows' Xming over ethernet. But too slow via Internet/VPN.

Xming was the one I was thinking of. I used it at work a couple of years ago with openSUSE 11.4.

Cygwin's X worked with XDMCP and supported Remote OpenGL over GLX. The article about wayland being incapable of working over X because it only shipped bits shows how much he knew about X. X does use local fonts (or remote with a font server), it does a bunch of things including 3D accel, when it works, but when it's broken those things don't work so well. You can't tell me a browser over the internet is capable of using download- able fonts while and X server is to slow because of that... huh? Unfortunately Cygwin just switched to 64-bit, so many thing that used to work well don't work as well yet on 64-bit. It's looking like OpenGL may still need some work on 64bit -- but cygwin opens more access to the HW than you normally see on windows -- including the registry in /prog/registry (R/O at this point still)... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2014-03-24 13:08, James Knott wrote:

Andrew English wrote:

...

Will be remoting from an Windows machine either locally or over the internet. So there has to be a Windows client/viewer available.

There are Windows X servers available. I used to use one, but don't recall it's name at the moment. Unfortunately with XDMCP broken in openSUSE, I don't know how useful they'd be now.

There is a nice ssh client for Windows that includes an X server, so that it works transparently, a single package and very easy to install. Try "MobaXterm". And it is GPL :-) Of course, the intention is to run single applications, not full desktops. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

* Carlos E. R. [03-24-14 10:27]:

On 2014-03-24 13:08, James Knott wrote:

...

Andrew English wrote:

...

Will be remoting from an Windows machine either locally or over the internet. So there has to be a Windows client/viewer available.

There are Windows X servers available. I used to use one, but don't recall it's name at the moment. Unfortunately with XDMCP broken in openSUSE, I don't know how useful they'd be now.

There is a nice ssh client for Windows that includes an X server, so that it works transparently, a single package and very easy to install. Try "MobaXterm". And it is GPL :-)

Appears restrictions on the "free" edition are rather impressive max run-time tftp service 60s max run-time ftp service 60s max run-time http service 60s Tightvnc does not have these restrictions and is quite easy to set-up. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Carlos E. R. [03-24-14 13:01]:

On 2014-03-24 16:17, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Carlos E. R. <> [03-24-14 10:27]:

...

...

There is a nice ssh client for Windows that includes an X server, so that it works transparently, a single package and very easy to install. Try "MobaXterm". And it is GPL :-)

Appears restrictions on the "free" edition are rather impressive max run-time tftp service 60s max run-time ftp service 60s max run-time http service 60s

Tightvnc does not have these restrictions and is quite easy to set-up.

Huh? Where did you see those restrictions? I haven't noticed. Of course, I don't need to connect from windows often...

http://mobaxterm.mobatek.net/download.html -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org