I have two machines, both Pentiums. One runs dual boot SuSE 7.1 and Win98. The other just Win98. I have to keep at least one machine working with W98 because I have three Windows and two DOS applications I wish to keep. If I had Bochs, would this enable me to run windows and DOS progs on the LINUX box ? I have never tried emulators before. Any other LINUX newbies running Bochs yet ? Does Bochs compete with vmware etc. ? Regards -- Geoff Bagley
You might want to check a recent thread about this. Just look for the word bochs on http://lists.suse.com/archives/suse-linux-e/2001-May/ hth,
From Geoff Bagley to suse-linux-e@suse.com about [SLE] The Big Changeover...:
I have two machines, both Pentiums.
One runs dual boot SuSE 7.1 and Win98. The other just Win98.
I have to keep at least one machine working with W98 because I have three Windows and two DOS applications I wish to keep.
If I had Bochs, would this enable me to run windows and DOS progs on the LINUX box ?
I have never tried emulators before. Any other LINUX newbies running Bochs yet ? Does Bochs compete with vmware etc. ?
Regards
-- dieter
On Monday 04 June 2001 12:18, Geoff Bagley wrote:
I have two machines, both Pentiums.
One runs dual boot SuSE 7.1 and Win98. The other just Win98.
I have to keep at least one machine working with W98 because I have three Windows and two DOS applications I wish to keep.
If I had Bochs, would this enable me to run windows and DOS progs on the LINUX box ?
I have never tried emulators before. Any other LINUX newbies running Bochs yet ? Does Bochs compete with vmware etc. ?
Regards
Another Windows/MSDOS emulator you could take a look at is Wine. It works for most of your basic MS based applications. It is quite easy to setup - has a handy graphical interface for configuring - and works quite well most of the time. It tends to fail on high end stuff like games and some custom (non-standard) applications. It's a good idea to download and install the latest version of Wine... I found that the version shipped with SuSE7.1 would crash a lot. the new version available at http://www.winehq.com/ is much more stable. Honestly I like Wine (haven't tried Bochs yet, but I do plan on trying it out soon) much better than VMWare. VMWare starts a virtual machine in a window. This has it's advantages such as in a commercial environment where a robust emulator is critical. In Wine, each application runs like/similar to an X app. Also.... Wine is free for distribution under the terms of it's license... VMWare is quite expensive to purchase. C.
Wine and VMWare do not compete with each other. One emulates the WinAPI, the other emulates the intel hardware platform. One is good for some things, the other for other things. They really can't be compared. Bochs seems to compete with VMWare, not with wine Regards Anders On Monday 04 June 2001 12:59, Clayton Cornell wrote:
On Monday 04 June 2001 12:18, Geoff Bagley wrote:
I have two machines, both Pentiums.
One runs dual boot SuSE 7.1 and Win98. The other just Win98.
I have to keep at least one machine working with W98 because I have three Windows and two DOS applications I wish to keep.
If I had Bochs, would this enable me to run windows and DOS progs on the LINUX box ?
I have never tried emulators before. Any other LINUX newbies running Bochs yet ? Does Bochs compete with vmware etc. ?
Regards
Another Windows/MSDOS emulator you could take a look at is Wine. It works for most of your basic MS based applications. It is quite easy to setup - has a handy graphical interface for configuring - and works quite well most of the time. It tends to fail on high end stuff like games and some custom (non-standard) applications. It's a good idea to download and install the latest version of Wine... I found that the version shipped with SuSE7.1 would crash a lot. the new version available at http://www.winehq.com/ is much more stable.
Honestly I like Wine (haven't tried Bochs yet, but I do plan on trying it out soon) much better than VMWare. VMWare starts a virtual machine in a window. This has it's advantages such as in a commercial environment where a robust emulator is critical. In Wine, each application runs like/similar to an X app. Also.... Wine is free for distribution under the terms of it's license... VMWare is quite expensive to purchase.
C.
Clayton Cornell wrote:
On Monday 04 June 2001 12:18, Geoff Bagley wrote:
I have two machines, both Pentiums.
One runs dual boot SuSE 7.1 and Win98. The other just Win98.
I have to keep at least one machine working with W98 because I have three Windows and two DOS applications I wish to keep.
If I had Bochs, would this enable me to run windows and DOS progs on the LINUX box ?
I have never tried emulators before. Any other LINUX newbies running Bochs yet ? Does Bochs compete with vmware etc. ?
Regards
Another Windows/MSDOS emulator you could take a look at is Wine. It works for most of your basic MS based applications. It is quite easy to setup - has a handy graphical interface for configuring - and works quite well most of the time. It tends to fail on high end stuff like games and some custom (non-standard) applications. It's a good idea to download and install the latest version of Wine... I found that the version shipped with SuSE7.1 would crash a lot. the new version available at http://www.winehq.com/ is much more stable.
I'd advise anyone who is concerned about stability to avoid Wine for now. Last time I looked, the website was full of warnings about Wine's experimental nature. I would take those warnings very seriously. There are also performance issues. If you're looking for something to play around with, Wine's fine. If you're looking for something to get real work done with, I'd avoid it. (Unless you're entered in a high-stakes Minesweeper tournament -- but then again, KDE has a fine version of Minesweeper.)
Honestly I like Wine (haven't tried Bochs yet, but I do plan on trying it out soon) much better than VMWare. VMWare starts a virtual machine in a window. This has it's advantages such as in a commercial environment where a robust emulator is critical. In Wine, each application runs like/similar to an X app. Also.... Wine is free for distribution under the terms of it's license... VMWare is quite expensive to purchase.
A cheaper and better alternative is Win4Lin (www.netraverse.com). Be sure to get Version 3.0, which came out very recently. I think it costs about $70, maybe much cheaper from places like Linux Mall (I haven't checked). I've used Win4Lin for about nine months, with very good if not totally perfect results. In particular, I've not had problems running Quicken, TurboTax, or Word 2000, and the performance on my machine is probably 80% of native Windows. (With a faster startup time.) But it won't run some games that depend on DirectX. Paul
In message <3B1B87EE.CAA6A041@acm.org>, Paul Abrahams
Clayton Cornell wrote:
On Monday 04 June 2001 12:18, Geoff Bagley wrote:
I have two machines, both Pentiums.
One runs dual boot SuSE 7.1 and Win98. The other just Win98.
I have to keep at least one machine working with W98 because I have three Windows and two DOS applications I wish to keep.
If I had Bochs, would this enable me to run windows and DOS progs on the LINUX box ?
I have never tried emulators before. Any other LINUX newbies running Bochs yet ? Does Bochs compete with vmware etc. ?
Regards
Another Windows/MSDOS emulator you could take a look at is Wine. It works for most of your basic MS based applications. It is quite easy to setup - has a handy graphical interface for configuring - and works quite well most of the time. It tends to fail on high end stuff like games and some custom (non-standard) applications. It's a good idea to download and install the latest version of Wine... I found that the version shipped with SuSE7.1 would crash a lot. the new version available at http://www.winehq.com/ is much more stable.
I'd advise anyone who is concerned about stability to avoid Wine for now. Last time I looked, the website was full of warnings about Wine's experimental nature. I would take those warnings very seriously. There are also performance issues. If you're looking for something to play around with, Wine's fine. If you're looking for something to get real work done with, I'd avoid it. (Unless you're entered in a high-stakes Minesweeper tournament -- but then again, KDE has a fine version of Minesweeper.)
Honestly I like Wine (haven't tried Bochs yet, but I do plan on trying it out soon) much better than VMWare. VMWare starts a virtual machine in a window. This has it's advantages such as in a commercial environment where a robust emulator is critical. In Wine, each application runs like/similar to an X app. Also.... Wine is free for distribution under the terms of it's license... VMWare is quite expensive to purchase.
A cheaper and better alternative is Win4Lin (www.netraverse.com). Be sure to get Version 3.0, which came out very recently. I think it costs about $70, maybe much cheaper from places like Linux Mall (I haven't checked). I've used Win4Lin for about nine months, with very good if not totally perfect results. In particular, I've not had problems running Quicken, TurboTax, or Word 2000, and the performance on my machine is probably 80% of native Windows. (With a faster startup time.) But it won't run some games that depend on DirectX.
Paul
I made the original enquiry. Thanks for the replies. The DOS applications I want to run (under LINUX) are Wordperfect 5.1, and Turbo Pascal 7.0. The Windows 9x applications are TURNPIKE (for the time being), the front panel to an ICOM IC-PCR1000 radio, the support software for a Motorola DSP EVM, and a QUATRO spreadsheet. Quite a mixture ! I guess I'll get suitable LINUX substitutes or emulators one day and become a M$ free zone. Regards -- Geoff Bagley
Geoff Bagley wrote:
A cheaper and better alternative is Win4Lin (www.netraverse.com). Be sure to get Version 3.0, which came out very recently. I think it costs about $70, maybe much cheaper from places like Linux Mall (I haven't checked). I've used Win4Lin for about nine months, with very good if not totally perfect results. In particular, I've not had problems running Quicken, TurboTax, or Word 2000, and the performance on my machine is probably 80% of native Windows. (With a faster startup time.) But it won't run some games that depend on DirectX. I made the original enquiry. Thanks for the replies.
The DOS applications I want to run (under LINUX) are Wordperfect 5.1, and Turbo Pascal 7.0.
FWIW, Win4Lin also supports DOS. Paul
I will second the basically good results with Win4Lin. I installed the new version this weekend without too much trouble. I've also been using Win4Lin 2.0 for about 9 months, and for business applications it's great. I can run Outlook under Linux which means I don't have to deal with the mail database format problem yet, which is nice. Most apps (Quicken 99, M$ Office, Acrobat Reader and full version, Framemaker, Corel Draw, Winzip) worked perfectly. I had some problems with minor Quicken 2001 so I didn't use it. NeTraverse was able to duplicate the problems, so maybe they're fixed. Also, be aware that any apps that wants to install system type DLLs, such as PC Anywhere, don't work. As for the kernel questions, Win4Lin works best if you're using a standard distribution kernel from one of the majors, such as RH or SuSE. In this case you just start using a new kernel instead from NeTraverse that simply replaces the one you have today. In case you've patched your own kernel, then you have to use their patches to rebuild your kernel with Win4Lin support. Right now some folks are having success with this for 3.0 and others are not. IMHO, not ready for primetime is Wine and Bochs. Very interesting, but not there yet. Hope this helps. Mark -----Original Message----- From: pwa@chmls20.mediaone.net [mailto:pwa@chmls20.mediaone.net]On Behalf Of Paul Abrahams Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 8:11 AM To: SuSE listserve Subject: Re: [SLE] The Big Changeover and Bochs. Geoff Bagley wrote:
A cheaper and better alternative is Win4Lin (www.netraverse.com). Be
sure to
get Version 3.0, which came out very recently. I think it costs about $70, maybe much cheaper from places like Linux Mall (I haven't checked). I've used Win4Lin for about nine months, with very good if not totally perfect results. In particular, I've not had problems running Quicken, TurboTax, or Word 2000, and the performance on my machine is probably 80% of native Windows. (With a faster startup time.) But it won't run some games that depend on DirectX. I made the original enquiry. Thanks for the replies.
The DOS applications I want to run (under LINUX) are Wordperfect 5.1, and Turbo Pascal 7.0.
FWIW, Win4Lin also supports DOS. Paul
"Mark W. Knecht" wrote:
As for the kernel questions, Win4Lin works best if you're using a standard distribution kernel from one of the majors, such as RH or SuSE. In this case you just start using a new kernel instead from NeTraverse that simply replaces the one you have today. In case you've patched your own kernel, then you have to use their patches to rebuild your kernel with Win4Lin support. Right now some folks are having success with this for 3.0 and others are not.
I had some problems using the stock (kernel.org) 2.4.4 kernel patched with the Win4Lin patches, but I got past them. Using "make oldconfig" to set up the compilation configuration file, I got compilation errors from the kernel. So I tried using a clean config file and twiddling it as best I could to get back to where I was, and that worked. No problems now. One other hint: the patched kernel sources do need to be in a directory 2.4.4-Win4Lin (or something like that -- it sets it up for you). Same for the modules. In my case I had to recompile the alsa sound modules to get them to work because they were compiled under a 2.4.4 kernel, and the module loader (insmod, I think) rejected them because of the apparent difference. You can symlink from /usr/src/linux to /usr/src/linux-2.4.4-Win4Lin, and that will help some other programs find what they're looking for. Paul
I'd advise anyone who is concerned about stability to avoid Wine for now. Last time I looked, the website was full of warnings about Wine's experimental nature. I would take those warnings very seriously. There are also performance issues. If you're looking for something to play around with, Wine's fine. If you're looking for something to get real work done with, I'd avoid it.
Probably sound advice, but maybe some aren't quite that cautious. I run Lotus Notes 5 under Wine (an April snapshot) and it works just about perfectly. My current process has been running 6 days (which is an achievement for Notes under Windows, let alone Wine!) and it's not so much as hiccupped. I don't think Wine will ever be a serious contender for selling cross platform software, but it is up to "getting real work done", at least in some circumstances.
Hello Geoff, Hopefully I can answer some of your questions.
One runs dual boot SuSE 7.1 and Win98. The other just Win98.
I have to keep at least one machine working with W98 because I have three Windows and two DOS applications I wish to keep.
If I had Bochs, would this enable me to run windows and DOS progs on the LINUX box ?
Yes. I should note that Windows is slow in Bochs, but your DOS apps should run great, and many people have had success running Windows apps in Bochs too. The initial Bochs install takes less than 5 minutes (including download on a broadband connection), and immediately gives you a copy of DLX-Linux to try out. If all goes well with that, it shouldn't take more than probably 30-60 minutes to configure and have a working DOS installation going. I recommend reading /usr/local/bochs/1.2/DOC-linux.html for some hints and tips after installation. You may also want to read the Bochs man pages (see the "See Also" section in bochs(1) for a complete listing of man pages for Bochs).
I have never tried emulators before. Any other LINUX newbies running Bochs yet ?
I'm not sure if there are or not, but with the release of an RPM, I can guarantee there will be. It is truely easy to try bochs out. Just download the RPM from the site (the i386 one), and open up Konsole in KDE or xterm and type: su You will then be prompted for your root password, enter it. rpm -Uvh bochs-1.2.i386.rpm exit Now, to try Bochs out with the included copy of DLX Linux, type: bochs-dlx
Does Bochs compete with vmware etc. ?
Sortof. Bochs is an emulator, meaning that it tries to fully emulate your computer (this also means it can run on other processors such as the PowerPC ones in Macintoshes or Linux-PPC systems). VMware on the other hand is what's called a virtualizer, it appears to do the same thing on a x86 computer, but is actually only "sort of" emulating the system. This means VMware is a lot faster, but doesn't run on different types of systems. So both have the same goal, but different approaches. HTH, Tim -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ============== "Information Powered by Innovation" ==============
participants (8)
-
Anders Johansson -
Clayton Cornell -
Derek Fountain -
dieter -
Geoff Bagley -
Mark W. Knecht -
Paul Abrahams -
Timothy R.Butler