-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 03:00 AM 05/03/00 -1000, you wrote: Hi, Avi, Avi Schwartz wrote:

I don't understand what the noise is all about. Roland Dyroff is right about every point he brought up. I love Linux and I use it as my main platform both at home and at work but I have to agree that Linux is not quite ready for the desktop. It is coming close, but it is not there yet.

That depends on whose desktop you are referring to. Most corporations have an IT department to configure software and hardware for the users. If a company deploys Linux, they should hire Linux administrators. Likewise, if they deploy NT on the desktop, they usually hire MCP's or MCSE's. What Linux is not ready for is the so-called "power user" who downloads some gee-whiz GUITweeker from download.com, changes to look of his screen and thinks he's a Guru. This individual will try to install Linux and destroy everything (because he knows all about computers and therefore does not need to read anything), and blames Linux for corrupting his data when the readme clearly said to run scandisk and defrag first. My wife doesn't give two hoots about the OS. She can use Linux like a pro because the GUI is similar to Windows and StarOffice works just like MS Office. It prints when she clicks on the printer icon. (The virtual desktops still confuses her, though.)

For example, to be ready for the desktop it must have, among other things, the ability to handle MS Office documents (Word, Excel, etc.) with 100% accuracy. Whether we like it or not, that is what 95% of

With this criteria, Microsoft Word is not ready for the desktop. Have you ever taken a Word 6 file and loaded it into Word 97? Only if it is a simple one-page memo do I get 100% accuracy. I have fewer problems with a StarOffice generated document saved as Word - here I only have to replace the smiley-face bullets with real bullets and it's good to go.

businesses are using today, and that it what people use at home, since they need to ability to exchange documents between work and home. I am yet to find a program that can handle Office documents with 100% accuracy, or even 75% accuracy. I have tried them all, WP, StarOffice, Applix, Abi Word.

I write Linux articles for two technical newspapers in Hawaii using StarOffice on Linux. I save them in Word 6 format, and my editors have NEVER once mentioned any problems with the format or the text. I've collaborated with others who used Word 97, and I've been fully functional with StarOffice. Accuracy was not a problem, and this was 18 months ago.

Linux installation: I believe that today, with some distributions, the installation of Linux is almost as easy as a Windows installation. The difference is, that when you buy a computer today, %99.99 of them come pre installed with Windows, not Linux. The users don't have to install anything, which makes Linux by definition harder to install.

Installing Linux is much easier than Windows. I've installed each several dozen times. Installing Linux is about as difficult as installing NT. But you compare apples to oranges. Sit a user in front of a Linux box and a Windows box and ask them which is harder to install? Will they know? No. Give a person a computer with a blank hard drive and a CD-ROM, the Windows 95 disks and a Linux CD, and I'll put money on Linux. Why? Because Windows 95 CD is not bootable, and Microsoft forgot to put the CD-ROM drivers on the floppy. Most Linux CD's are bootable.

Instead of crying for Mr. Dyroff's head, we should all thank him for being sincere. We are getting enough lies from Microsoft, we don't need to hear them from the makers of our favorite distribution. By opening our eyes to the weaknesses in Linux, the truth allows us to improve the operating system.

There is a way of being sincere without demoralizing your loyal clientelle and your employees, and this was not it. The leader of any group should show full support for the group and what the group is doing. How many wars were won when the Generals said "We shouldn't be here." Not too many, because like snow, bad morale avalanches as it falls, and these type of comments can seriously demoralize a company, which adversely affects product value and performance. Enough. George -------------------------------------------------------- I don't know how anyone can say that Linux is at this moment ready for the desktop. Those that do have been working in Linux too long and have lost touch with the real world. I Manage a Computer Book Store which is a strong supporter of Linux, and I run SuSE on a dual boot machine. But I deal with regular computer users very day and their level of computer competence is just not up to the learning curve of Linux. When you see people come in day after day asking of Dummies books on this topic or that, not because they like the "Dummies" book style, but their own perceived level of competence is such that they feel only a book which tells them they are Dummies will do. I consider myself fairly tech friendly guy, but in the 6 months I've been using SuSE (part-time) I have been unable to get my printer (Epson Stylus Photo 750) working. Now this problem of working with a peripheral such as the printer is endemic of much of Linux. Until these sorts of problems are fixed Linux will not be ready for those users of "Dummies". Lastly, I do believe that Linux will be a Desktop alternative and that time is not that far away. bruce -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 6.0.2ckt http://irfaiad.virtualave.net/ Comment: KeyID: 0xB12E9D9B Comment: Fingerprint: B8E1 C9C8 EB7E 8E49 A15C 1E4D AEC4 5440 iQQVAwUBOMLmSA7fnvOxLp2bAQGD2x/+MD29+T0QKmHrdjhs5LH99TyOTcx3TP9N NEa5LPeaT7/gDwRtDVz8NOPSalnZx7zAliq4fiXxCJiwk/y7noQH453W/C1H+wU7 UZLP3ZY1osDuBKZ62SQOo6gkbLrOV9Ps8qiuNgb9/4cYrpe86S1+cgpn4WIaM6DE VTM3rLniTmuaxicwedWgvqUoS+9BP5On/0Y9TYNzga2qsCcl5CtK2mi0U7F5+oxI lBjaY5dwT4qAvNe4zs6DPHJW8RLg+hkxyLq7EdYVh0DGEoebeTxo/wyuAA+UAdzz /DOuHgD53IXKwhO3O5KmoL5eQ8mP2TBHhQBtslRGgfFeuwqbRDWASpEKYUmJKLYY ku/+hjQSbuhq+DpCVpKIi6APGsWL7UqjOtaSNcPPQoVu4k7dHxWTW8rukyyzS1Yw zeJMNfRiO0Sh01z8Go6Qk7VpWTnXOvc8EQmYHi+N9DqqHLLgvUTKPUJvoCyugTdf 2P5M4gRQEM2i0164zDBEMDXXd8zSvHIdFHgxsXsRw1ODQliW385eCdAK3I53ZmTr X6ixUci3Ir9OOePZBvwUkT42lJgpt3ohhw7CvPkl6khgXC2kdj6HNnItKtrw6Ulk W2XCaFsj5VAPA2Qnv/5men/mwy4c6fwdkjqUtNGrhs7s4TI0PmqLaDFsYIOzFALb fPQdXl+Nw8pY/Fbjr+ZiPSkj1FMaP+NqqoxuKxf5RZHZsAodajtYv1sZOLNge/83 zHwCMCKxRAvC6UDV5GKWDPASRt9TpnOkMOLZVs4bgezPoJertKpBvwfgZlmhHgQ3 vu3apqVPTac1l+C1R6YNH/b+qK3U8+BcU5SVmfRMQgxHXreQesARUCu4/Mv4sT0T DHhGBTvyJe/G7t5a3ZY1Xb7kVy1EeZgmCHd09tP9QE1sgdH3x8BCLq4zV55pun7R /4JHfSksRDK9JzCiFEm9Xd+wj3n8QWnjzGFZSdR6228jCxflNpOTqflzWwigksrS h+QyHiVwMdiEtPRWm1x0/dOgYfyUOtkWQxqUenx/c2jfiDOxPjv4CROUutVj5H+V 6GtHrmSBFdSYqff2NaMat3NJXYGzXMOpK/mLIjNHC2SW8tbsp6R1A7Oyd8cN9a/E 2GZiGW7rZQEuIb8Ula7JBOrNA3UG9BGkcCt3KQJKtCSYdq9c2eBPSton+t03vTvL zlimj4WL0ej6tOJDdl+ryTOX7dorR1IJAlotA0nyipc0zBHikuQxq9Sl3sbrCxYQ DF3o5SfxcLHr9LenHXEC9Al2iWy3b8soDM3CG0+kthqXTVCRA61Y1K8tj1m7WXLn HZTTLWear68r7uyhSpA0fFeNgnztzrW6D342Zwk56x0quBf0G+/UPQ== =iCrb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Hi, Hi, <font size=3>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 03:00 AM 05/03/00 -1000, you wrote: Hi, Avi, Avi Schwartz wrote:

I don't understand what the noise is all about. Roland Dyroff

about every point he brought up. I love Linux and I use it as my main platform both at home and at work but I have to agree that Linux is not quite ready for the desktop. It is coming close, but it is not

yet. That depends on whose desktop you are referring to. Most corporations have an IT department to configure software and hardware for the users. If a company deploys Linux, they should hire Linux administrators. Likewise, if they deploy NT on the desktop, they usually hire MCP's or MCSE's. What Linux is not ready for is the so-called "power user" who downloads some gee-whiz GUITweeker from download.com, changes to look of his screen and thinks he's a Guru. This individual will try to install Linux and destroy everything (because he knows all about computers and therefore does not need to read anything), and blames Linux for corrupting his data when the readme clearly said to run scandisk and defrag first. My wife doesn't give two hoots about the OS. She can use Linux

For example, to be ready for the desktop it must have, among other things, the ability to handle MS Office documents (Word, Excel, etc.) with 100% accuracy. Whether we like it or not, that is what 95% of With this criteria, Microsoft Word is not ready for the desktop. Have you ever taken a Word 6 file and loaded it into Word 97? Only if it is a simple one-page memo do I get 100% accuracy. I have fewer

is right there like a pro because the GUI is similar to Windows and StarOffice works just like MS Office. It prints when she clicks on the printer icon. (The virtual desktops still confuses her, though.) problems with a StarOffice generated document saved as Word - here I only have to replace the smiley-face bullets with real bullets and it's good to go.

businesses are using today, and that it what people use at home, since they need to ability to exchange documents between work and home. I am yet to find a program that can handle Office documents with 100% accuracy, or even 75% accuracy. I have tried them all, WP, StarOffice, Applix, Abi Word. I write Linux articles for two technical newspapers in Hawaii using StarOffice on Linux. I save them in Word 6 format, and my editors have NEVER once mentioned any problems with the format or the text. I've

collaborated with others who used Word 97, and I've been fully functional with StarOffice. Accuracy was not a problem, and this was 18 months ago. > Linux installation: I believe that today, with some distributions, the > installation of Linux is almost as easy as a Windows installation. The > difference is, that when you buy a computer today, %99.99 of them come > pre installed with Windows, not Linux. The users don't have to install > anything, which makes Linux by definition harder to install. Installing Linux is much easier than Windows. I've installed each several dozen times. Installing Linux is about as difficult as installing NT. But you compare apples to oranges. Sit a user in front of a Linux box and a Windows box and ask them which is harder to install? Will they know? No. Give a person a computer with a blank hard drive and a CD-ROM, the Windows 95 disks and a Linux CD, and I'll put money on Linux. Why? Because Windows 95 CD is not bootable, and Microsoft forgot to put the CD-ROM drivers on the floppy. Most Linux CD's are bootable. > Instead of crying for Mr. Dyroff's head, we should all thank him for > being sincere. We are getting enough lies from Microsoft, we don't need > to hear them from the makers of our favorite distribution. By opening > our eyes to the weaknesses in Linux, the truth allows us to improve the > operating system. There is a way of being sincere without demoralizing your loyal clientelle and your employees, and this was not it. The leader of any group should show full support for the group and what the group is doing. How many wars were won when the Generals said "We shouldn't be here." Not too many, because like snow, bad morale avalanches as it falls, and these type of comments can seriously demoralize a company, which adversely affects product value and performance. Enough. George -------------------------------------------------------- I don't know how anyone can say that Linux is at this moment ready for the desktop. Those that do have been working in Linux too long and have lost touch with the real world. I Manage a Computer Book Store which is a strong supporter of Linux, and I run SuSE on a dual boot machine. But I deal with regular computer users very day and their level of computer competence is just not up to the learning curve of Linux. When you see people come in day after day asking of Dummies books on this topic or that, not because they like the "Dummies" book style, but their own perceived level of competence is such that they feel only a book which tells them they are Dummies will do. I consider myself fairly tech friendly guy, but in the 6 months I've been using SuSE (part-time) I have been unable to get my printer (Epson Stylus Photo 750) working. Now this problem of working with a peripheral such as the printer is endemic of much of Linux. Until these sorts of problems are fixed Linux will not be ready for those users of "Dummies". Lastly, I do believe that Linux will be a Desktop alternative and that time is not that far away. bruce -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 6.0.2ckt http://irfaiad.virtualave.net/ Comment: KeyID: 0xB12E9D9B Comment: Fingerprint: B8E1 C9C8 EB7E 8E49 A15C 1E4D AEC4 5440 iQQVAwUBOMLmSA7fnvOxLp2bAQGD2x/+MD29+T0QKmHrdjhs5LH99TyOTcx3TP9N NEa5LPeaT7/gDwRtDVz8NOPSalnZx7zAliq4fiXxCJiwk/y7noQH453W/C1H+wU7 UZLP3ZY1osDuBKZ62SQOo6gkbLrOV9Ps8qiuNgb9/4cYrpe86S1+cgpn4WIaM6DE VTM3rLniTmuaxicwedWgvqUoS+9BP5On/0Y9TYNzga2qsCcl5CtK2mi0U7F5+oxI lBjaY5dwT4qAvNe4zs6DPHJW8RLg+hkxyLq7EdYVh0DGEoebeTxo/wyuAA+UAdzz /DOuHgD53IXKwhO3O5KmoL5eQ8mP2TBHhQBtslRGgfFeuwqbRDWASpEKYUmJKLYY ku/+hjQSbuhq+DpCVpKIi6APGsWL7UqjOtaSNcPPQoVu4k7dHxWTW8rukyyzS1Yw zeJMNfRiO0Sh01z8Go6Qk7VpWTnXOvc8EQmYHi+N9DqqHLLgvUTKPUJvoCyugTdf 2P5M4gRQEM2i0164zDBEMDXXd8zSvHIdFHgxsXsRw1ODQliW385eCdAK3I53ZmTr X6ixUci3Ir9OOePZBvwUkT42lJgpt3ohhw7CvPkl6khgXC2kdj6HNnItKtrw6Ulk W2XCaFsj5VAPA2Qnv/5men/mwy4c6fwdkjqUtNGrhs7s4TI0PmqLaDFsYIOzFALb fPQdXl+Nw8pY/Fbjr+ZiPSkj1FMaP+NqqoxuKxf5RZHZsAodajtYv1sZOLNge/83 zHwCMCKxRAvC6UDV5GKWDPASRt9TpnOkMOLZVs4bgezPoJertKpBvwfgZlmhHgQ3 vu3apqVPTac1l+C1R6YNH/b+qK3U8+BcU5SVmfRMQgxHXreQesARUCu4/Mv4sT0T DHhGBTvyJe/G7t5a3ZY1Xb7kVy1EeZgmCHd09tP9QE1sgdH3x8BCLq4zV55pun7R /4JHfSksRDK9JzCiFEm9Xd+wj3n8QWnjzGFZSdR6228jCxflNpOTqflzWwigksrS h+QyHiVwMdiEtPRWm1x0/dOgYfyUOtkWQxqUenx/c2jfiDOxPjv4CROUutVj5H+V 6GtHrmSBFdSYqff2NaMat3NJXYGzXMOpK/mLIjNHC2SW8tbsp6R1A7Oyd8cN9a/E 2GZiGW7rZQEuIb8Ula7JBOrNA3UG9BGkcCt3KQJKtCSYdq9c2eBPSton+t03vTvL zlimj4WL0ej6tOJDdl+ryTOX7dorR1IJAlotA0nyipc0zBHikuQxq9Sl3sbrCxYQ DF3o5SfxcLHr9LenHXEC9Al2iWy3b8soDM3CG0+kthqXTVCRA61Y1K8tj1m7WXLn HZTTLWear68r7uyhSpA0fFeNgnztzrW6D342Zwk56x0quBf0G+/UPQ== =iCrb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Hi, Hi, </font>