On Friday 05 June 2009 22:06:34 Andrew Joakimsen wrote:

My main machine I upgraded openSUSE 11.0 -> 11.1 without any problems. There were issues with the ATI drivers that caused me to do a clean install, but that did not resolve the issue. So I lived with jerky screensavers for about a month and now the newest ATI driver in the repository doesn't lock up the machine!

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 19:14, Dan Kegel wrote:

...

I'm trying to decide whether depending on LSB 3.2 is going to cut out a lot of users. How far along are folks on moving to OpenSuse 11.1? Or are a large fraction of users still on older versions of OpenSuse? Are these statistics available anywhere? Thanks, Dan

Andrew hit the nail on the head! If you have an older ATI card (older than the 2400 Series), then you no longer have driver support from ATI. ATI dropped all support for all users of *all* previous cards. The problem is that on many of the older *legacy* cards, the last working driver was the 8-9 release (Ver. 8.532) which has no support for xorg 7.4 (the version packaged with 11.1). On many older cards the 8-10 through 9-3 (the last driver with legacy support) drivers simply "do not work." For example, (my situation) if you have ATI hardware that doesn't work with the 9.3 driver -- you are hosed and you are stuck using 11.0 until you upgrade your graphics card. Otherwise, you will have *no fglrx* driver to use in 11.1. If you have a laptop -- you are just hosed. You must stay with 11.0 or upgrade and switch to the radeonhd driver. The radeonhd driver is getting much better and works fine, but face it, performance is still about 20-50% of what you get with the fglrx driver. Additionally, for laptop users, the downclocking/powerdown capabilities of the radeonhd driver are still in work and the lack of downclocking can cause your laptop to run extremely hot -- solely due to the heat produced by the ATI gpu without the proprietary downclocking and unused chip circuitry powerdown provided by the fglrx driver. Running the radeonhd driver on my Toshiba laptop causes such extreme heat production, I can fry eggs on the palm rest. (literally, I have to lift my hands off the palm rest continually to avoid the heat: 96-97 deg. F palm rest temp and Left Fan Discharge: 147 Deg. F) [The left fan discharge is just below the palm rest] That's with: Option "ForceLowPowerMode" Option "LowPowerModeEngineClock" "140000" Using the fglrx driver, there is no heat problem on the palm rest and the Left Fan Discharge temp drops to 122 deg. F. (That's a 25 deg. F drop just due to gpu chipset power control) So for my laptop situation, with a legacy card that will not work with the 9-3 release, I am stuck using 11.0 until EOL, and by then I will have a new laptop with an NVIDIA gpu in it. With that background, the answer to your question is simple. If you are not affected by a hardware issue that requires you stay with 11.0, then by all means run 11.1. If you are stuck running 11.0, you can still install the latest and greatest KDE desktop, and all of the other latest apps. So the actual "difference" between running 11.0 or 11.1 to the end user is nothing more than a kernel version difference. If your hardware doesn't require any new feature only available in the 11.1 kernel, then the release choice really becomes a "who cares" issue aside from the EOL support time remaining. (which is in itself is increasingly more of a "who cares" issue due to bug fix times and priority) So check your hardware, pick a release number, pop the DVD in the tray and reboot ;-) Both 11.0 and 11.1 are fine (10.3 still works great for that matter) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 06 Jun 2009 05:32:40 Dan Kegel wrote:

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Dan Kegel wrote:

...

I'm trying to decide whether depending on LSB 3.2 is going to cut out a lot of users. How far along are folks on moving to OpenSuse 11.1? Or are a large fraction of users still on older versions of OpenSuse? Are these statistics available anywhere?

I just looked at the user agent strings in my web server's logs (only counting each IP address once). Of those containing SUSE, about one third were using Firefox 1x or 2.x or an unknown browser. Another third were using Firefox 3.x, but not 3.0.10 or 3.5beta. The final third were using Firefox 3.0.10 or 3.5beta.

Could it really be that only a third of all Suse users have an up to date firefox? - Dan

Well i am messing with 11.2 right now and if the games i am having getting firefox 3.0.8 to accept plugins is any guide then as soon as i have found a way to rescue my software and data form the drive that has died i will be back on 10.3 and Seamonkey . I can handle a bit of messing about to get things working but it seems suse is making it ever harder to get a decent working system with working browser plugins and working multimedia but no things have to stick to some archaic law saying no to anything not 10,000000% squeaky and it gets silly Pete not so far impressed and definately not going back on the cowboy factory list YMMV mine will not 11.2 is a passing fad it will fade out to 10.3

On Sat, 2009-06-06 at 10:45 +0100, Peter Nikolic wrote:
> On Saturday 06 Jun 2009 05:32:40 Dan Kegel wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Dan Kegel wrote:
> > > I'm trying to decide whether depending on LSB 3.2 is going to
> > > cut out a lot of users.  How far along are folks on moving to
> > > OpenSuse 11.1?  Or are a large fraction of users still on older
> > > versions of OpenSuse?  Are these statistics available anywhere?
> > I just looked at the user agent strings in my web server's logs
> > (only counting each IP address once).
> > Of those containing SUSE, about one third were using Firefox 1x or 2.x
> > or an unknown browser.
> > Another third were using Firefox 3.x, but not 3.0.10 or 3.5beta.
> > The final third were using Firefox 3.0.10 or 3.5beta.
> > Could it really be that only a third of all Suse users have an up to
> > date firefox?
> > - Dan
> Well i am messing with 11.2 right now and if the games i am having getting 
> firefox  3.0.8 to accept plugins is any guide then as soon as i have found a 
> way to rescue my software and data form the drive that has died i will be back 
> on 10.3 and Seamonkey  .

I'm using 11.1 on both my workstation and my laptop and everything,
including multimedia, works perfectly.  No fuss.

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Dan Kegel wrote:

Rajko wrote:

...

http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics

Great, thanks!

Those numbers are a bit hard to read (how do you get a count for the current week of 10.3 users?), but they are perfect for comparing 11.0 and 11.1. 26 weeks in to 11.1, the ratio of 11.1 to 11.0 users is 242000 to 112000, or roughly 2:1.

The number of 11.0 IP addresses appears to be decreasing by about 3000 per week, so three months later, the ratio will probably be about 4:1.

This makes me happy - I can probably depend on LSB 3.2 for a product launching in Q3 or Q4 without losing too many opensuse users. - Dan

Depending on your product, it might be worth pointing out that those stats are desktop-only or at least desktop-mostly. People tend to be much more conservative when it comes to maintaining production servers. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (14.2°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 4:54 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

... I don't understand the last part, the reference to smolts :-?

http://en.opensuse.org/Hardware/Smolt It's a data collection app included in 11.1 and addable to older versions. I remember using it last fall from a number of machines. Started out as a Fedora project, but openSUSE joined in. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 07 June 2009 21:33:56 Carlos E. R. wrote:

But I don't understand that paragraph:

] "This page contains a variety of statistics about ] openSUSE's usage. They are purely generated from the apache logs of ] download.opensuse.org, user contributed data you can find at smolts.org"

What has to do the apache logs of download.opensuse.org with data at smolts.org, how are they correlating those two sources, how is smolt data shown in the opensuse stats page?

It's not. The sentence you quote says "on this page you will only find what is in our apache logs - if you want more, go to smolts.org where you will find user contributed data" Same sentence, slightly rephrased Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 07 June 2009 22:07:58 Carlos E. R. wrote:

On Sunday, 2009-06-07 at 21:52 +0200, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

...

] "This page contains a variety of statistics about ] openSUSE's usage. They are purely generated from the apache logs of ] download.opensuse.org, user contributed data you can find at smolts.org"

What has to do the apache logs of download.opensuse.org with data at smolts.org, how are they correlating those two sources, how is smolt data shown in the opensuse stats page?

It's not. The sentence you quote says "on this page you will only find what is in our apache logs - if you want more, go to smolts.org where you will find user contributed data"

Same sentence, slightly rephrased

Ah! That's it what it should read, but it doesn't. My Firefox displays this, instead:

I'm not saying I read a different text on the page. I just reworded the sentence, in the hopes that it would be easier for you to understand.

This page contains a variety of statistics about openSUSE's usage. They are purely generated from the apache logs of download.opensuse.org, user contributed data you can find at smolts.org

(see the attached photo if you don't believe it)

However, if I copy-paste the text into this email, I get this, instead:

"This page contains a variety of statistics about openSUSE's usage. They are purely generated from the apache logs of download.opensuse.org, user contributed data you can find at smolts.org"

I see absolutely no difference between these two Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, 2009-06-08 at 10:23 -0400, Dan Goodman wrote:

Dan Kegel wrote:

...

I'm trying to decide whether depending on LSB 3.2 is going to cut out a lot of users. How far along are folks on moving to OpenSuse 11.1? Or are a large fraction of users still on older versions of OpenSuse? Are these statistics available anywhere? Thanks, Dan

Data point:

Updated three or four systems from 10.x to 11.1. All server system working great. All desktop systems working at the level of 10.3 when I run KDE 3.5. When I run KDE 4.2.3 they are also working great. Only thing not working is compiz effects with an NVIDIA 9400 GT card. My desktop use is mainly software development (file access, compile, run vmware). -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 8-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org