On 12/03/2014 08:33 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

Guess the route I will have to follow as I have *never* been able to make NetworkManager work.

I installed 13.2 on my notebook, shortly after it was released. Due to problems with it, I rolled back to 13.1. That is something I've never had to do before in all the time I've been running Linux. Fortunately, 13.1 is an Evergreen release so it will be supported for longer than usual. I'll stick with it until the mess that's 13.2 gets resolved. 13.2 was clearly not properly thought out, nor release ready. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 12/03/2014 09:15 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

Normally I upgrade a couple of weeks after the upgrade is officially released. However the reports I'm seeing, not least of all from Vojtěch, are discouraging me. All in all this is much more like a old X.0 or a beta release. Particularly as the items being brought up are 'front line' ones rather than fringe cases of rarely used or specialist items. Backups/imaging and Broadcom wifi are pretty fundamental!

Of course the people who have no problems aren't here posting are they. If you follow the threads, you will see that the problems seem most concentrated by those who upgrade in place. I did a fresh install. FTR: I've had no problem with Broadcom wifi grub2 btrfs partitioning KDE4 Sound keyboard suspend/resume bluetooth video card (oldish radeon) lid close/open, built in buttons, etc. In short, this laptop runs perfectly. It did under 12.3 as well. I've had problems with HPLIP printing, and scanning via hpaio and these were all solved by removing ALL suse packages, which are back-level, and installing directly from HP. I've also had only minimal man page reading to do with regard to systemd to access logs and start/stop services. In short, I don't think its fair to say this version wasn't ready for prime time just because people come here for help. That's like claiming the entire country is dyeing off because you've been sitting in the emergency room and seeing a steady stream of patients arriving. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 12/03/2014 11:28 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

fwiw, I did two fresh 13.2 installs which cannot achieve connection via NetworkManager (NetFailManager), and I have three systems on Tw which cause *no* problems but non-the-less cannot connect via NetworkManager.

And For the record, I have no problem using NetworkManager either. It connects to my Router, my phone, the wifi at the Cafe just fine. It would be interesting to know just WHY networkmanager decides to fail for you, and why you wouldn't pursue a fix for that. Its always worked for me even back in 12.3 days. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, Dec 03, 2014 at 03:18:35PM -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* John Andersen [12-03-14 14:46]:

...

On 12/03/2014 11:28 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

fwiw, I did two fresh 13.2 installs which cannot achieve connection via NetworkManager (NetFailManager), and I have three systems on Tw which cause *no* problems but non-the-less cannot connect via NetworkManager.

And For the record, I have no problem using NetworkManager either. It connects to my Router, my phone, the wifi at the Cafe just fine.

It would be interesting to know just WHY networkmanager decides to fail for you, and why you wouldn't pursue a fix for that.

I am in another thread here.

The problem I am having with it, and also the network manager when I used that, was that at the university, they say that it doesn't stay connected to the wifi long enought to get an assignment from the DHCP That is what they say. I don't know of any means to adjust the amount of time they take to get an assignment, and I'm not totally convineced that LIU knows what they are doing. I think there is something else going on and they don't have the tools to know what that problem is, It does work better with MACs and MS OSs

...

Its always worked for me even back in 12.3 days.

I have been unable to get it to work on *any* box since it's introduction, and after *many* attempts. But today is the first time I felt the need to pursue it further as ifup worked fine for wired connections and previous I only had one laptop and didn't travel much. Today I see the need to be able to access multiple wireless locations.

And, kdeconnect-kde works fine.

tks, -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, Dec 03, 2014 at 02:28:25PM -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* John Andersen [12-03-14 13:20]:

...

On 12/03/2014 09:15 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

Normally I upgrade a couple of weeks after the upgrade is officially released. However the reports I'm seeing, not least of all from Vojtěch, are discouraging me. All in all this is much more like a old X.0 or a beta release. Particularly as the items being brought up are 'front line' ones rather than fringe cases of rarely used or specialist items. Backups/imaging and Broadcom wifi are pretty fundamental!

Of course the people who have no problems aren't here posting are they. If you follow the threads, you will see that the problems seem most concentrated by those who upgrade in place. I did a fresh install.

fwiw, I did two fresh 13.2 installs which cannot achieve connection via NetworkManager (NetFailManager), and I have three systems on Tw which cause *no* problems but non-the-less cannot connect via NetworkManager.

With the systemd implementation wicd is going through the Networkmanger. Don't try to kill it, BTW. It will not die.

*but*, the thread is about using wicked, not about 13.2 being of lessor or greator quality/usefulness than previous issues. Please, let's return to the presented thread-topic.

tks, -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 12/04/2014 08:31 AM, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

Why are these changes being forced upon us before they are production ready? Is it to get more bug reports for fixes because "we are the guinea pigs" now?

Don't get me wrong I am for change. I really do appreciate the change to systemd now that most of the hurdles have been jumped, bugs fixed and features added. It's just that we should not have been forced into the change _until_ they were done.

I've addressed this before. This is FOSS. This is not IBM or Microsoft or HP where they can pay internal teams to do testing ad infinitum, all matter of regressions testing, testing with every possible printer and add-in card. If this were MS/IBM the product would be "2 years late" and the equivalent of, say, KDE4.10 before the public saw it. But this is FOSS, so development is done on a 'when I can spare the time" basis by people with other jobs, volunteers who are enthusiasts. Testing is down by what might be termed 'crowd-sourcing'. If you want a product that works "error free" then don't use software; if you want it with most of the problems worked out, stick with commercial products and don't use release level zero. Software is never "done"[1]. That being said, I am disappointed here. A whole new revision out on DVD ... I would expect it to have been better tested along the different upgrade paths. Yes, I do a 'clean install' on a new disk and add /usr from backup, but something like .2 -> .3 I should be able to do 'in place' on an existing disk. What's the real difference? [1] Strictly speaking, neither is hardware, but software is more mutable in place in ways that hardware isn't. Often upgrading hardware means junking the old and buying new. That's one thing for a coffee maker; possible for a cell phone; inconvenient (thank you MS for not allowing simple swap of disk to new machine) for a PC; both inconvenient and limited for upgrading your kitchen and bathroom without actually replacing the whole house -- which is a completely different and very disruptive upgrade, to say nothing of being expensive; and of course upgrading your car. However upgrading by replacement the San Francisco or the Broklyn bridges or even upgrading them is a quite different matter. And if you don't think they need upgrading, just look at how much their context/environment has changed since they were built, to say nothing of the available technology. Changes in available technology are often a reason for change in product. I don't imagine we'd be running KDE on a 1985 PC/AT with a 80286. -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 12/04/2014 09:20 AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

I have done in-place upgrade from 13.1 to 13.2. As well as from 12.3 to 13.1 and from 12.2 to 12.3. So in-place upgrade is obviously possible.

I have done those as well and apart from 'finger trouble[1]' they went OK. [1] Sometimes termed PEBCAK -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org