-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Heya gang, This came in my mailbox, and I have no clue what the heck it is or where it came from, and yet it's got the subject header that I did to ask Curtis those silly questions. Anyone have an idea why I got this or where it came from? I thought I'd been pretty good about keeping this email address *only* on this mailing list and one other place...have I just lost the battle and need to begin worryin' about spam now? (I can always create another email address, my ISP allows me 5, so it's no big deal) Here's what I got: Autoreply: Re: [SLE] X Config Problem on 8.2...OT a moment From: Postmaster@TNN.NET To: yonaton@tds.net Subject: e-posta adres deðiþikliði - e-mail address change Göndermiþ olduðunuz e-posta alýcýsýnýn kullaniciadi@turk.net adresi, kullaniciadi@tnn.net olarak deðiþmiþtir ve alýcýsýna teslim edilmiþtir. Bundan sonra bu adrese göndereceðiniz e-postalarýn ilgili adrese ulaþmasý için kullaniciadi@tnn.net þeklinde deðiþtirmenizi önemle rica ederiz. Saygýlarýmýzla, Turk Nokta Net Bilgi Hizmetleri A.Þ. Turk Nokta Net'e artýk http://www.tnn.net 'ten ulaþýn - --------------------------------------------------------------- The e-mail address of the recipient of your message has been changed from username@turk.net to username@tnn.net and your message has been delivered to the recipient. We urgently request that you change the recipient's address to username@tnn.net in order for your messages to be delivered. Best Regards, Turk Nokta Net Bilgi Hizmetleri A.Þ. Reach Turk Nokta Net at http://www.tnn.net Pretty weird huh? John - -- A butterfly is: Pretty,soft,harmless...and useless, just like M$N. My Penguin and my Gecko eat butterflies. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+xf28H5oDXyLKXKQRAqtMAJ4rRqYHr5jB/27s7fUEtTVpiVJYoQCeM4qO DKzHimeZQJAtNSbp6NPCuhw= =QCLL -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
The 03.05.17 at 04:15, John wrote:
This came in my mailbox, and I have no clue what the heck it is or where it came from, and yet it's got the subject header that I did to ask Curtis those
[...]
Here's what I got:
Autoreply: Re: [SLE] X Config Problem on 8.2...OT a moment From: Postmaster@TNN.NET To: yonaton@tds.net
Remember that when you send mail to the list, the list software sends to every subscriber with your from. Some servers bounce back to the original poster instead of the Suse list machine. In those cases, simply forward it to the mail list owner, and he will take the needed action when he can :-) -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
On May 17, 2003 05:15 am, John wrote:
The e-mail address of the recipient of your message has been changed from username@turk.net to username@tnn.net and your message has been delivered to the recipient. We urgently request that you change the recipient's address to username@tnn.net in order for your messages to be delivered.
It's this. When you sent your message to the list it gets forward to all the list members. Well this one changed his email and all the people emailing his old one are getting this email. Nick
* Nick Zentena (zentena@hophead.dyndns.org) [030517 09:04]:
It's this. When you sent your message to the list it gets forward to all the list members. Well this one changed his email and all the people emailing his old one are getting this email.
Yes, but autoreplies and bounces should only go to the sender from, not any addresses listed in the headers. In the correct case the chucker would just get unsubscribed from the list and no one would know. If we set a reply-to-list these might end up on the list. Anyway, I'll get the full headers from this post -- -ckm
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 18 May 2003 12:42, Christopher Mahmood wrote:
* Nick Zentena (zentena@hophead.dyndns.org) [030517 09:04]:
It's this. When you sent your message to the list it gets forward to all the list members. Well this one changed his email and all the people emailing his old one are getting this email.
Yes, but autoreplies and bounces should only go to the sender from, not any addresses listed in the headers. In the correct case the chucker would just get unsubscribed from the list and no one would know. If we set a reply-to-list these might end up on the list.
Anyway, I'll get the full headers from this post
--
-ckm
Hmmm...I didn't know this would be somewhat important to you like that Christopher. I got 3 more today (3 of the same exact thing though, not 3 different addre4sses), but since I didn't take it as being a big deal, I deleted them...sorry. I don't suppose theres a way I might can find them again and send them/it to you too? John - -- A butterfly is: Pretty,soft,harmless...and useless, just like M$N. My Penguin and my Gecko eat butterflies. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+yFvMH5oDXyLKXKQRAqpjAKCiEIOuRpKZ50ZWWbD3C+hwPqFeMwCgn7bq ElOvr+Z8Z3fkoECwWrmLLQI= =FYRR -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Saturday 17 May 2003 02:15, John wrote:
Heya gang,
This came in my mailbox, and I have no clue what the heck it is or where it came from, and yet it's got the subject header that I did to ask Curtis those silly questions. Anyone have an idea why I got this or where it came from? I thought I'd been pretty good about keeping this email address *only* on this mailing list and one other place...have I just lost the battle and need to begin worryin' about spam now? (I can always create another email address, my ISP allows me 5, so it's no big deal) Here's what I got:
Ya, I got two of those. One the last time I posted to answer the guys post about X and the other when replying to those silly questions. What gives. I misconfig server or something more dubious? Cheers, Curtis.
On Saturday 17 May 2003 13:33, Curtis Rey wrote:
On Saturday 17 May 2003 02:15, John wrote:
Heya gang,
This came in my mailbox, and I have no clue what the heck it is or where it came from, and yet it's got the subject header that I did to ask Curtis those silly questions. Anyone have an idea why I got this or where it came from? I thought I'd been pretty good about keeping this email address *only* on this mailing list and one other place...have I just lost the battle and need to begin worryin' about spam now? (I can always create another email address, my ISP allows me 5, so it's no big deal) Here's what I got:
Ya, I got two of those. One the last time I posted to answer the guys post about X and the other when replying to those silly questions.
What gives. I misconfig server or something more dubious?
It looks like someone subscribed with an old address that has been changed. The user should have unsubscribed from his old address and subscribed with his new one. More irritating than anything else. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 8.1 Kernel 2.4.19 KDE 3.1.1 Kmail 1.5.1 For SuSE Mondo/Mindi backup support go to http://www.mikenjane.net/~mike 11:50am up 7 days, 14:44, 7 users, load average: 1.95, 1.89, 1.83
This is not as weird as it looks. The English section is a translation of the Turkish section which precedes it; the fact that you may be seeing "weird" characters is simply due to the fact that the message was sent with iso-8859-9 (Turkish) encoding, whereas you are probably reading them with iso-8859-1 encoding; to see them as they are meant to be seen you would need to switch your email reader into "Turkish" encoding (and you would also need to link this to Turkish fonts). As to what the message is about, it looks like an error-bounce back to you (as originator of the message) to the effect that whoever "username@turk.net" may be (pity it does not say what "username" is) is now at "username@tnn.net" -- presumably one of the people that the SuSE list tries to deliver to -- and while they have obligingly delivered it this time, they are asking you (actually SuSE) to change the address to the new form as soon as possible. Ted. On 17-May-03 John wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Heya gang,
This came in my mailbox, and I have no clue what the heck it is or where it came from, and yet it's got the subject header that I did to ask Curtis those silly questions. Anyone have an idea why I got this or where it came from? I thought I'd been pretty good about keeping this email address *only* on this mailing list and one other place ... have I just lost the battle and need to begin worryin' about spam now? (I can always create another email address, my ISP allows me 5, so it's no big deal) Here's what I got:
Autoreply: Re: [SLE] X Config Problem on 8.2...OT a moment From: Postmaster@TNN.NET To: yonaton@tds.net
Subject: e-posta adres deðiþikliði - e-mail address change
Göndermiþ olduðunuz e-posta alýcýsýnýn kullaniciadi@turk.net adresi, kullaniciadi@tnn.net olarak deðiþmiþtir ve alýcýsýna teslim edilmiþtir. Bundan sonra bu adrese göndereceðiniz e-postalarýn ilgili adrese ulaþmasý için kullaniciadi@tnn.net þeklinde deðiþtirmenizi önemle rica ederiz.
Saygýlarýmýzla, Turk Nokta Net Bilgi Hizmetleri A.Þ. Turk Nokta Net'e artýk http://www.tnn.net 'ten ulaþýn - ---------------------------------------------------------------
The e-mail address of the recipient of your message has been changed from username@turk.net to username@tnn.net and your message has been delivered to the recipient. We urgently request that you change the recipient's address to username@tnn.net in order for your messages to be delivered.
Best Regards, Turk Nokta Net Bilgi Hizmetleri A.Þ. Reach Turk Nokta Net at http://www.tnn.net
Pretty weird huh?
John
--------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail: (Ted Harding)
* Ted Harding;
This is not as weird as it looks.
The English section is a translation of the Turkish section which precedes it; the fact that you may be seeing "weird" characters is simply due to the fact that the message was sent with iso-8859-9 (Turkish) encoding, whereas you are probably reading them with iso-8859-1 encoding; to see them as they are meant to be seen you would need to switch your email reader into "Turkish" encoding (and you would also need to link this to Turkish fonts).
Correct
As to what the message is about, it looks like an error-bounce back to you (as originator of the message) to the effect that whoever "username@turk.net" may be (pity it does not say what "username" is) is now at "username@tnn.net" -- presumably one of the people that the SuSE list tries to deliver to -- and while they have obligingly delivered it this time, they are asking you (actually SuSE) to change the address to the new form as soon as possible.
Correct. As Turkish I can even guess who the mail is for. :-) Turk.net is one of the 5 big ISPs in Turkey and recently they have changed their name just type www.turk.net and it will say their new address is www.tnn.net. So actually the mailing participant who has a email address with the turk.net domain has to unsubscribe and then resubscibe wit the tnn.net domain. -- Togan Muftuoglu Unofficial SuSE FAQ Maintainer http://dinamizm.ath.cx
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 19 May 2003 11:10, Togan Muftuoglu wrote:
* Ted Harding;
on 18 May, 2003 wrote: This is not as weird as it looks.
The English section is a translation of the Turkish section which precedes it; the fact that you may be seeing "weird" characters is simply due to the fact that the message was sent with iso-8859-9 (Turkish) encoding, whereas you are probably reading them with iso-8859-1 encoding; to see them as they are meant to be seen you would need to switch your email reader into "Turkish" encoding (and you would also need to link this to Turkish fonts).
Correct
As to what the message is about, it looks like an error-bounce back to you (as originator of the message) to the effect that whoever "username@turk.net" may be (pity it does not say what "username" is) is now at "username@tnn.net" -- presumably one of the people that the SuSE list tries to deliver to -- and while they have obligingly delivered it this time, they are asking you (actually SuSE) to change the address to the new form as soon as possible.
Correct. As Turkish I can even guess who the mail is for. :-) Turk.net is one of the 5 big ISPs in Turkey and recently they have changed their name just type www.turk.net and it will say their new address is www.tnn.net.
So actually the mailing participant who has a email address with the turk.net domain has to unsubscribe and then resubscibe wit the tnn.net domain.
--
Togan Muftuoglu Unofficial SuSE FAQ Maintainer http://dinamizm.ath.cx
Okay, I'll take your word for it, heh, but why did *I* get it and no one else (at least I haven't heard from anyone else getting it, and I got 3 copies of the same exact thing)? John - -- A butterfly is: Pretty,soft,harmless...and useless, just like M$N. My Penguin and my Gecko eat butterflies. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+yV7KH5oDXyLKXKQRAnzwAJsEh9Y3/K6Hbpb+7jIQn/dCyCSUvQCdHWvC sBUo8GHGL0Icacw6LG15uT8= =gOU3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
* John (yonaton@tds.net) [030519 15:40]:
Okay, I'll take your word for it, heh, but why did *I* get it and no one else (at least I haven't heard from anyone else getting it, and I got 3 copies of the same exact thing)?
A lot of people got them but everyone else did the correct thing and told ml-admin@suse.com (or postmaster@suse.com or LISTNAME-owner or sysadmin@suse.com etc.) so I could take care of it instead of talking about it on the list where it doesn't. -- -ckm
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 19 May 2003 17:46, Christopher Mahmood wrote:
* John (yonaton@tds.net) [030519 15:40]:
Okay, I'll take your word for it, heh, but why did *I* get it and no one else (at least I haven't heard from anyone else getting it, and I got 3 copies of the same exact thing)?
A lot of people got them but everyone else did the correct thing and told ml-admin@suse.com (or postmaster@suse.com or LISTNAME-owner or sysadmin@suse.com etc.) so I could take care of it instead of talking about it on the list where it doesn't.
--
-ckm
Well excuse the hell out of me! I didn't *know* what to do or what it was or why I got them, and asked here about it and not one answer said anything about what you just said *should* have been done. Forgive me for 'ass-u-ming' I was helping out in any way by bringing it up and asking what to do with them or about them. John - -- A butterfly is: Pretty,soft,harmless...and useless, just like M$N. My Penguin and my Gecko eat butterflies. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+yXWnH5oDXyLKXKQRAtjMAKC/V0v77zYe3N0uDYnBQ5mrWvmobACfSMrn 6JWtWWSjHYDBQ/yd8cvFX3A= =56Td -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
The 03.05.19 at 19:24, John wrote:
Well excuse the hell out of me! I didn't *know* what to do or what it was or why I got them, and asked here about it and not one answer said anything about what you just said *should* have been done.
I did, but you didn't notice. Perhaps you do not thread the mail and don't see all the answers posted. ;-) -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
Hi, My ISP changed its name from turk.net to tnn.net this weekend, without informing its clients. I'm sorry for bounce-mails you rceived. I resubscribed the list as you see, but not sure if i could succeed in unsubscribing old account yet. I confirmed my unsubscription request using my old address in the From field, but maybe the mail server replaces this with the new one, and i didn't receive a reply to confirmation. I sent this also to the list owner. Regards,
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 20 May 2003 04:28, oguzeren wrote:
Hi,
My ISP changed its name from turk.net to tnn.net this weekend, without informing its clients. I'm sorry for bounce-mails you rceived.
I resubscribed the list as you see, but not sure if i could succeed in unsubscribing old account yet. I confirmed my unsubscription request using my old address in the From field, but maybe the mail server replaces this with the new one, and i didn't receive a reply to confirmation.
I sent this also to the list owner.
Regards,
No need to apologize, it's just one of those 'twilight Zone' thngs that happens, heh. John - -- A butterfly is: Pretty,soft,harmless...and useless, just like M$N. My Penguin and my Gecko eat butterflies. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+yk9AH5oDXyLKXKQRAlVvAJ9pNFKYRgie1dUWv0eQZI5Qf2b4jgCeLC5m zadfwDrMhfItkvqqfVR9uAM= =ttKA -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
* John (yonaton@tds.net) [030519 17:18]:
Well excuse the hell out of me! I didn't *know* what to do or what it was or why I got them, and asked here about it and not one answer said anything about what you just said *should* have been done.
The information you were sent when you subscribed (and asked politely to read) told you how to contact the list owner when you encounter problems with the list. I, of course, can't force you to read that but you probably shouldn't act so shocked when I expect that you have. This isn't just some BOFH power trip contrary to what you are probably thinking. Occasionally very broken mail servers (or malicious jackasses) start resending list mail back through the lists after removing all of the headers that would allow the software to detect the mail loop. That's not what this was but it easily could have been. The last serious mail loop we had caused almost 10 million messages to be sent in a matter of hours; if one of the subscribers on that list (it wasn't SLE) had bothered to email one of the correct contact addresses it would have been stopped in a matter of minutes instead of hours. -- -ckm
The 03.05.19 at 20:07, Christopher Mahmood wrote:
The information you were sent when you subscribed (and asked politely to read) told you how to contact the list owner when you encounter problems with the list.
:-) Suggestion: On another list I moderate I post the rules once every month. perhaps you could do that here - post that text :-?
This isn't just some BOFH power trip contrary to what you are probably thinking. Occasionally very broken mail servers (or malicious jackasses) start resending list mail back through the lists after removing all of the headers that would allow the software to detect the mail loop. That's not what this was but it easily could have been.
Mmm... technical question: our posts get to list with our "from". If there is an error, "we" get posted back. Now, Is that the correct behavior by the "receiver side", or should it bounce to the envelope? Or should it detect it is a mailing list and do something else? I'm not talking about changing the "from" for the list, I just want to know what the other side should do :-)
The last serious mail loop we had caused almost 10 million messages to be sent in a matter of hours; if one of the subscribers on that list (it wasn't SLE) had bothered to email one of the correct contact addresses it would have been stopped in a matter of minutes instead of hours.
Ugh! That reminds me that the Spanish help test is not totally equivalent to the English one, some little things are missing. Anyway, that list is way more tolerant that this one: we have top posting, don't' trim messages, thread hijacking, html... you name it, but almost nobody complains, no flames ;-) -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
On Tuesday 20 May 2003 12.19, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Mmm... technical question: our posts get to list with our "from". If there is an error, "we" get posted back. Now, Is that the correct behavior by the "receiver side", or should it bounce to the envelope? Or should it detect it is a mailing list and do something else?
rfc1123, section 5.3.3 f there is a delivery failure after acceptance of a message, the receiver-SMTP MUST formulate and mail a notification message. This notification MUST be sent using a null ("<>") reverse path in the envelope; see Section 3.6 of RFC-821. The recipient of this notification SHOULD be the address from the envelope return path (or the Return-Path: line). There is a "Precedence" header that some people claim should stop bounce messages from being sent if it's set to "bulk" or "list", but I haven't been able to find an rfc for it. In fact, rfc2076 explicitly discourages it.
* Carlos E. R. (robin1.listas@tiscali.es) [030520 03:20]:
Suggestion: On another list I moderate I post the rules once every month. perhaps you could do that here - post that text :-?
I don't know if that will help.
Mmm... technical question: our posts get to list with our "from". If there is an error, "we" get posted back. Now, Is that the correct behavior by the "receiver side", or should it bounce to the envelope? Or should it detect it is a mailing list and do something else?
Always bounce to the envelope address. If it's an autoresponse, it's best to use a null sender from as well.
That reminds me that the Spanish help test is not totally equivalent to the English one, some little things are missing.
Well, my Spanish isn't really good enough to write those so I'm kind of dependent on volunteers (hint ;)).
Anyway, that list is way more tolerant that this one: we have top posting, don't' trim messages, thread hijacking, html... you name it, but almost nobody complains, no flames ;-)
Yeah, it seems to be a very civilized, friendly bunch. Of course, there are only about 600 people subscribed and a reasonable amount of traffic. -- -ckm
The 03.05.20 at 10:46, Christopher Mahmood wrote:
Suggestion: On another list I moderate I post the rules once every month. perhaps you could do that here - post that text :-?
I don't know if that will help.
Me neither :-) We tend to ignore rules and things we supposedly know, anyway. I had carefully read the help, but I learnt about the "-owner" thing when somebody else asked O:-) I mean, I didn't detect what was happening the first time.
Always bounce to the envelope address. If it's an autoresponse, it's best to use a null sender from as well.
I see, that way loops are avoided. But sometimes, the envelope address is invented, as is my case (I don't have a permanent IP number). What would happened then? That could be the reasoning behind bouncing to the originator.
That reminds me that the Spanish help test is not totally equivalent to the English one, some little things are missing.
Well, my Spanish isn't really good enough to write those so I'm kind of dependent on volunteers (hint ;)).
Hint taken, I'll have a try - but I'm not fast at that :-)
Anyway, that list is way more tolerant that this one: we have top posting, don't' trim messages, thread hijacking, html... you name it, but almost nobody complains, no flames ;-)
Yeah, it seems to be a very civilized, friendly bunch. Of course, there are only about 600 people subscribed and a reasonable amount of traffic.
That helps, I suppose :-) -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
* Carlos E. R. (robin1.listas@tiscali.es) [030520 15:31]:
Always bounce to the envelope address. If it's an autoresponse, it's best to use a null sender from as well.
I see, that way loops are avoided. But sometimes, the envelope address is invented, as is my case (I don't have a permanent IP number).
The envelope (sender) from must be valid or everything breaks. You lose bounces, mailinglists won't work, and a lot sites won't even accept your mail anymore. tiscali.es seems real enough.
What would happened then? That could be the reasoning behind bouncing to the originator.
The originator is the envelope (sender) from, not the header from.
Well, my Spanish isn't really good enough to write those so I'm kind of dependent on volunteers (hint ;)).
Hint taken, I'll have a try - but I'm not fast at that :-)
Thanks, -- -ckm
The 03.05.20 at 15:50, Christopher Mahmood wrote:
I see, that way loops are avoided. But sometimes, the envelope address is invented, as is my case (I don't have a permanent IP number).
The envelope (sender) from must be valid or everything breaks. You lose bounces, mailinglists won't work, and a lot sites won't even accept your mail anymore.
tiscali.es seems real enough.
Yes, but that's my header "from". I think my envelope would be
"cer@localhost" or "cer@nimrodel.valinor", which is my machine name.
Unless postfix is clever enough to change the "envelope sender" to match
the "header from" for all the differents addresses I use :-?
I don't think I can easily check that; but an email sent to myself has
this on the header:
Received: from nimrodel.valinor (193.152.137.137) by netmail.tiscalinet.es
(6.7.014)
id 3DF904860059AD7D for robin1.listas@tiscali.es; Mon,
20 Jan 2003 22:23:01 +0100
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by nimrodel.valinor (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E6B029B00
for
What would happened then? That could be the reasoning behind bouncing to the originator.
The originator is the envelope (sender) from, not the header from.
I'll have to read the howto again :-) -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
On Tue, May 20, 2003 at 11:30:32PM +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I see, that way loops are avoided. But sometimes, the envelope address is invented, as is my case (I don't have a permanent IP number). What would happened then? That could be the reasoning behind bouncing to the originator.
You can't post from an invented envelope address. Envelope address in your post must be exactly the same address you are subscribed with. Otherwise your post will be just rejected. On the contrary, From: address in your post can be anything. Regards, -Kastus
The 03.05.20 at 15:58, Kastus wrote:
I see, that way loops are avoided. But sometimes, the envelope address is invented, as is my case (I don't have a permanent IP number). What would happened then? That could be the reasoning behind bouncing to the originator.
You can't post from an invented envelope address. Envelope address in your post must be exactly the same address you are subscribed with. Otherwise your post will be just rejected.
On the contrary, From: address in your post can be anything.
Ok. Who sets the envelope address, postfix? (certainly not the mail client). It should by default be the machine name, no? Then it would be "localhost" or something like that. I really don't know who sets the envelope address, and what happens when I have two different ISP, both with dynamic IPs. Should I configure it, and how? -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
On Thursday 22 May 2003 02.54, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Ok. Who sets the envelope address, postfix? (certainly not the mail client).
By default the email client. At one point I hacked kmail to set any envelope sender you want, while using a completely different header From:. By default in kmail, envelope sender and header From: are the same. But your mail server can be set to rewrite it. /usr/sbin/sendmail has a -f parameter to set the envelope sender
On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 02:54:59AM +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Ok. Who sets the envelope address, postfix? (certainly not the mail client).
Surprise, it's MUA. I'm not sure how to do it in pine, but in mutt you set the following variable: envelope_from Type: boolean Default: no When set, mutt will try to derive the message's envelope sender from the "From:" header. Note that this information is passed to sendmail command using the "-f" command line switch, so don't set this option if you are using that switch in $sendmail yourself, or if the sendmail on your machine doesn't support that command line switch.
It should by default be the machine name, no?
Well, not necessarily. It is configurable in postfix. This is what $mydomain is for. Or you can use sender_canonical table in postfix.
Then it would be "localhost" or something like that. I really don't know who sets the envelope address, and what happens when I have two different ISP, both with dynamic IPs. Should I configure it, and how?
If you are connecting from your MUA to a local MTA that should not be a problem. The envelope will be created by your MUA and (possibly) fixed by your MTA. Regards, -Kastus
On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 07:44:57PM -0700 or thereabouts, Kastus wrote:
On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 02:54:59AM +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Ok. Who sets the envelope address, postfix? (certainly not the mail client).
Surprise, it's MUA. I'm not sure how to do it in pine, but in mutt you set the following variable:
envelope_from
Type: boolean Default: no
Mutt is very powerful, allowing one complete control over just about every aspect of your email... I like to call it Pine on steroids.. <g> I don't use the envelope_from, but rather use from hooks in the .muttrc file, so that for different groups I am on, it automatically selects the proper name in From: for that group. Mutt allows control over your envelope sender, which can be different from my From: as it is in my case. Many mail lists will subscribe users via the envelope only, as this list does, using ezmlm. So I can use a time dated From: address different from my envelope address (which I subscribed with) as above.
When set, mutt will try to derive the message's envelope sender from the "From:" header. Note that this information is passed to sendmail command using the "-f" command line switch, so don't set this option if you are using that switch in $sendmail yourself, or if the sendmail on your machine doesn't support that command line switch.
I use qmail on my servers, which will allow me to use its version of sendmail, or I just use qmail-inject with variables, called from Mutt, which allow me even further control over my email, and can use environmental variables to change ID's, etc... very effective against spam. -- Gary Why don't sheep shrink when it rains?
The 03.05.21 at 22:10, gary wrote:
Mutt is very powerful, allowing one complete control over just about every aspect of your email... I like to call it Pine on steroids.. <g>
X'-) I tried mutt, a few times, but the interface scared me. O:-)
I use qmail on my servers, which will allow me to use its version of sendmail, or I just use qmail-inject with variables, called from Mutt, which allow me even further control over my email, and can use environmental variables to change ID's, etc... very effective against spam.
I can see how usefull that can be... most of the spam I get get is on this address, which I only use on suse lists. But I don't know how to do that with pine and postfix. I'll have to read carefully it's docs. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
The 03.05.21 at 19:44, Kastus wrote:
Ok. Who sets the envelope address, postfix? (certainly not the mail client).
Surprise, it's MUA. I'm not sure how to do it in pine, but in mutt you set the following variable:
I guess I should read again the email howto O:-)
Ok, I have set up my other PC (suse 7.3, sendmail, named telperion), with
sendmail started as:
telperion:~ # sendmail -bD -q30m -om -X sendmail.log
And from my main computer (suse 8.1, postfix, named nimrodel) I sent an
email using pine and this same alias as on this list. As it is the first
time I look at such a verbose log, I'll post it here for clarification - I
don't know which one is the envelope from, although I think it is the
"Return-Path" one.
(some lines removed to reduce clutter)
+++ Log Start =========================
02368 >>> 220 telperion.valinor ESMTP Sendmail 8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5; Thu, 22 May 2003 12:07:14 +0200
02368 <<< EHLO nimrodel.valinor
02368 >>> 250-telperion.valinor Hello nimrodel.valinor [192.168.100.2], pleased to meet you
02368 >>> 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
02368 >>> 250-8BITMIME
02368 >>> 250-SIZE
02368 >>> 250-DSN
02368 >>> 250-ONEX
02368 >>> 250-ETRN
02368 >>> 250-XUSR
02368 >>> 250 HELP
02368 <<< MAIL FROM:
On Thursday 22 May 2003 12.35, Carlos E. R. wrote:
02368 <<< MAIL FROM:
SIZE=779
So, is this "02370 >>> Return-Path:
" the envelope header? Or is it the "X-X-Sender: cer@nimrodel.valinor"?
Neither. Both those are in the DATA section of the email. The line I snipped above is the envelope sender
The 03.05.22 at 13:11, Anders Johansson wrote:
02368 <<< MAIL FROM:
SIZE=779 So, is this "02370 >>> Return-Path:
" the envelope header? Or is it the "X-X-Sender: cer@nimrodel.valinor"? Neither. Both those are in the DATA section of the email. The line I snipped above is the envelope sender
But the "Return-Path" does not appear in the received data, it seems to be added by the receiver sendmail, probably created from the "MAIL FROM:" line precisely. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 19 May 2003 22:07, Christopher Mahmood wrote:
* John (yonaton@tds.net) [030519 17:18]:
Well excuse the hell out of me! I didn't *know* what to do or what it was or why I got them, and asked here about it and not one answer said anything about what you just said *should* have been done.
The information you were sent when you subscribed (and asked politely to read) told you how to contact the list owner when you encounter problems with the list. I, of course, can't force you to read that but you probably shouldn't act so shocked when I expect that you have.
I *did* read it, but it was somewhat confusing to me, so when things 'happen', all I want is to do the 'right' thing, and I come in here and ask. I *want* to help, to do what I can to keep things going the correct way, but there's people like me out there (fortunately very few) who just have a hard time with certain things (and there's no way to discern what it may be til it happens or comes around), but I truly did think I was doing the right thing by asking here. I don't want anything bad to happen to this list, it's my *main* source of info and help. I mean, I can rebuild a 283, 327, 350 Chevy motor almost blindfolded. I found I had a latent talent for a certain 'branch' in Israeli military counter-intelligence, but can't get up from my desk to walk 12 paces to the kitchen and remember what I went in there for (happens *every* time too). I can remember a whole mess of passwords I have, long ones too, but have to buy keyed padlocks, because I can't remember 'combinations' to combination lock. I have to keep my own phone number in my pocket, because I can't remember it. Stupid junk like that...it's frustrating as hell. I just try hard and hope for the best, but I'm an honest man, and don't try purposely to screw things up for anyone else.
This isn't just some BOFH power trip contrary to what you are probably thinking. Occasionally very broken mail servers (or malicious jackasses) start resending list mail back through the lists after removing all of the headers that would allow the software to detect the mail loop. That's not what this was but it easily could have been. The last serious mail loop we had caused almost 10 million messages to be sent in a matter of hours; if one of the subscribers on that list (it wasn't SLE) had bothered to email one of the correct contact addresses it would have been stopped in a matter of minutes instead of hours.
Like I said, I'm sorry, but there wasn't no need to put it the way you did to me. I was only trying to do what was right. Also, Carlos said he'd told me to tell the list manager, and I was probably about to do it when who knows what crossed my sight to make me get on another track and completely forget what I *was* gonna do. Having only recently found I have ADD (I'm 41 now, found out just after I turned 40), *and* I'm at the very bottom of the chart of those who have it *bad*. It may seem like an excuse, because it *is*. Hell...it took me 40 minutes to make this reply, because I'd always catch myself 'wandering' off some thought process would catch my attention and I'd follow it then catch myself and come back to this. Anyway, I screwed up. I apologize to you and am sorry I made your work harder when there was no need for it to be thus, and I'm sorry Christopher. I'll try harder somehow, honest.
--
-ckm
John - -- A butterfly is: Pretty,soft,harmless...and useless, just like M$N. My Penguin and my Gecko eat butterflies. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+ylZIH5oDXyLKXKQRAl/VAJ0VKXQH7gI9P4Crg8s9x6rp3eoZDQCfa4o1 sx2iwCXDlkNKMA60ovfzDOE= =FcLX -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
The 03.05.19 at 17:46, John wrote:
Okay, I'll take your word for it, heh, but why did *I* get it and no one else (at least I haven't heard from anyone else getting it, and I got 3 copies of the same exact thing)?
Maybe you were the intended victim X'-) No, we did as well. Don't you remember I told you you should inform the list owner? This kind of thing happens now and then. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 19 May 2003 19:57, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The 03.05.19 at 17:46, John wrote:
Okay, I'll take your word for it, heh, but why did *I* get it and no one else (at least I haven't heard from anyone else getting it, and I got 3 copies of the same exact thing)?
Maybe you were the intended victim X'-)
No, we did as well. Don't you remember I told you you should inform the list owner? This kind of thing happens now and then.
-- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
Sorry Carlos, I really don't remember (haven't been able to get my Adderall in 3 weeks, and this ADD is screwin' with me real bad). But if you did tell me, I'll go apologize to ckt. John - -- A butterfly is: Pretty,soft,harmless...and useless, just like M$N. My Penguin and my Gecko eat butterflies. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+ylF0H5oDXyLKXKQRAiBOAKCp727kmnfSpp20nlYw/knzqi3qEQCfZj9j j4oLXJ03W4NMEORyKeoeXO8= =eebY -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
The 03.05.20 at 11:01, John wrote:
Maybe you were the intended victim X'-)
No, we did as well. Don't you remember I told you you should inform the list owner? This kind of thing happens now and then.
Sorry Carlos, I really don't remember (haven't been able to get my Adderall in 3 weeks, and this ADD is screwin' with me real bad). But if you did tell me, I'll go apologize to ckt.
Maybe I told you too tersely as well, it was a bit of a hint. Er... perhaps I'm intruding, but what is ADD? Not being english my first language, acronyms are difficult. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
On Tue, 2003-05-20 at 16:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Er... perhaps I'm intruding, but what is ADD? Not being english my first language, acronyms are difficult.
ADD= Attention Defecit Disorder
Inability to concentrate, focus on tasks. Constant daydreaming. Problems
with short term memory.
Often treated with Ritalin or Adderall (amphetamine + dexedrine).
--
Chris Grainer
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 20 May 2003 16:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The 03.05.20 at 11:01, John wrote:
Maybe you were the intended victim X'-)
No, we did as well. Don't you remember I told you you should inform the list owner? This kind of thing happens now and then.
Sorry Carlos, I really don't remember (haven't been able to get my Adderall in 3 weeks, and this ADD is screwin' with me real bad). But if you did tell me, I'll go apologize to ckt.
Maybe I told you too tersely as well, it was a bit of a hint.
Er... perhaps I'm intruding, but what is ADD? Not being english my first language, acronyms are difficult.
-- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
No intrusion at all (not to me it isn't, heh). It's not? You do pretty darn good for it not being your second language! (better than me I've noticed, LOL) ADD/ADHD= Attention Deficit Disorder/Attention Deficit-Hyperactive Disorder It'll be much easier if you look it up now that you know what it stands for, instead of me trying to explain what it is/does (it'd take me a year and I don't want to clog up the list more than I have already, heh, and this isn't meant to sound smart-assy or anything, just that it really would be easier for you to look it up on yahoo or google I think). Take care and be good, John - -- A butterfly is: Pretty,soft,harmless...and useless, just like M$N. My Penguin and my Gecko eat butterflies. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+y70SH5oDXyLKXKQRAoYaAKCw7FH2JkFXVFEh6PW78p6oi/9I8ACgqsyO uav0aTm2ugtec+jjz6gBpyY= =Nbub -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
The 03.05.21 at 12:53, John wrote:
Er... perhaps I'm intruding, but what is ADD? Not being english my first language, acronyms are difficult.
No intrusion at all (not to me it isn't, heh).
It's not? You do pretty darn good for it not being your second language! (better than me I've noticed, LOL)
Thanks! :-) I have been told that sometimes. It could be because as a foreign language I learned more reading/writing than speaking, contrary to babies learning their first language. Or because I lived two years in Ottawa... But I will never be really bilingual.
ADD/ADHD= Attention Deficit Disorder/Attention Deficit-Hyperactive Disorder
It'll be much easier if you look it up now that you know what it stands for, instead of me trying to explain what it is/does
Ok, then I understand :-) -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
participants (13)
-
Anders Johansson
-
Carlos E. R.
-
Chris Grainer
-
Christopher Mahmood
-
Curtis Rey
-
gary
-
John
-
Kastus
-
Mike
-
Nick Zentena
-
oguzeren
-
Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk
-
Togan Muftuoglu