[opensuse] We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

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[opensuse] Privoxy keeps getting...

Basil Chupin

30 Mar 2013 30 Mar '13

02:21

I guess it had to happen some day, and it seems that that day has arrived :-) . We have reached Windows standards were one thinks that it is not unusual to get a system response which states, "Press any key to continue or press any other key to quit" :-D . Overnight (my time) the stable, standard, kernel was ugraded from 3.8.4-1 to 3.8.5-1 and so in my usual way I went into a terminal and ran "zypper dup --from XX" [where XX is the kernel's repo number]. And I got the message that there are 3 problems: kernel-desktop 3.8.3-1 is not compatible..... kernel-desktop 3.8.3-1 is not compatible.... kernel-devel 3.8.3-1 is not compatible..... But wait, I have kernel 3.8.4-1 installed so why am I being told that an earlier version of the kernel is incompatible?! I check in KinfoCenter and it shows that I have 3.8.4-1 installed..... Strange.... BUT the best part of all of this is: The message which zypper gives me after telling me that kernel 3.8.3-1 is incompatible consists of 4 options which I am allowed to select in order to "solve" the problem of the incompatibility of 3.8.3-1. I can either: 1 press 1 to retain kernel 3.8.3-1 s skip [this first problem] r retry [this first problem to see if it has now gone away] c to cancel [quit] [my attempt to install the newer kernel] I don't believe what I see and decide that pressing "s" will get me to an entry which will allow me to install the latest kernel (3.8.5-1). I press "s". "No way, Jose!". I am back where I started..... "kernel - desktop 3.8.3-1 is not compatible....." :-) ---- and so on, etc etc. "Nah", I says to meself, "this has never happened before so I will go back to my installation of 12.2 and prove that THAT works fine!" "No way, Jose". 12.2 is doing exactly the same thing! But with one variation: in 12.2, KinfoCenter is showing that I have kernel 3.8.4-1 installed but the message I get from zypper is that kernel (!)3.8.2-1 is not compatible. We are living in interesting times..... :-) . Fortunately, YaST2 still works as intended [I *think* and hope] and I have kernel 3.8.5-1 installed in 12.3 and 12.2 as well :-) . BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.5-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

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James Knott

30 Mar 30 Mar

02:55

Basil Chupin wrote:

...

We have reached Windows standards were one thinks that it is not unusual to get a system response which states, "Press any key to continue or press any other key to quit" :-D .

Abort, Retry or Continue [y/n] ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin

03:33

On 30/03/13 13:55, James Knott wrote:

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Basil Chupin wrote:

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We have reached Windows standards were one thinks that it is not unusual to get a system response which states, "Press any key to continue or press any other key to quit" :-D .

Abort, Retry or Continue [y/n] ;-)

THIS is the one I was looking for but couldn't remember it! :-D Summarises perfectly the message which zypper comes up with :-) . BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.5-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Hans Witvliet

10:07

-----Original Message----- From: James Knott To: SLE Subject: Re: [opensuse] We have finally reached Windows standards :-) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 22:55:20 -0400 Basil Chupin wrote:

...

We have reached Windows standards were one thinks that it is not unusual to get a system response which states, "Press any key to continue or press any other key to quit" :-D .

Abort, Retry or Continue [y/n] ;-) -----Original Message----- Don't worry, yet. Start worrying as soon as you are instructed to press ctrl-alt-del, or to perform "rm -rf /" as only solution to get rid of your problems >:-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Linda Walsh

31 Mar 31 Mar

20:18

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

Hans Witvliet wrote:

...

Don't worry, yet.

Start worrying as soon as you are instructed to press ctrl-alt-del, or to perform "rm -rf /" as only solution to get rid of your problems >:-)

We've already gotten to the point of updates telling us that our system needs to be rebooted for the updates to take effect... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

James Knott

20:21

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

Linda Walsh wrote:

...

We've already gotten to the point of updates telling us that our system needs to be rebooted for the updates to take effect...

Does that apply to anything other than kernel updates? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

21:27

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

* James Knott [03-31-13 16:23]:

...

Linda Walsh wrote:

...
We've already gotten to the point of updates telling us that our system needs to be rebooted for the updates to take effect...

Does that apply to anything other than kernel updates?

Not that I have seen, but Linda has ?systems? and ?configurations?. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

21:33

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2013-03-31 at 16:21 -0400, James Knott wrote:

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Linda Walsh wrote:

...

...
We've already gotten to the point of updates telling us that our system needs to be rebooted for the updates to take effect...

Does that apply to anything other than kernel updates?

Of course it does. For example, glibc. And many others, because the only assured⁽¹⁾ method to restart some system services is a restart (udev, hal, are classic examples). (1) "assured" as in not needing a long explanation, and a long list of manual things to do. A restart is simply faster to explain and do. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlFYq8QACgkQtTMYHG2NR9W4pgCfaRwUxSihtQCbszAmv1rDcUdw 2qcAnAui7pBPbqRt9sAMdDPXrwMVxFIQ =5WiV -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Linda Walsh

23:15

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

Carlos E.R. deftly wrote:

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Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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James Knott [03-31-13 16:23]: Linda Walsh wrote:

...
We've already gotten to the point of updates telling us that our system needs to be rebooted for the updates to take effect... Does that apply to anything other than kernel updates? Not that I have seen, but Linda has ?systems? and ?configurations?.

----

...

Of course it does. For example, glibc. And many others, because the only assured⁽¹⁾ method to restart some system services is a restart (udev, hal, are classic examples).

(1) "assured" as in not needing a long explanation, and a long list of manual things to do. A restart is simply faster to explain and do.

Aw... come on, what can be more fun that going through "zypper ps" and nuking 'em one-by-one (for those ?systems? and ?configurations?, ya know..) ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

23:35

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

* Linda Walsh [03-31-13 19:16]:

...

Carlos E.R. deftly wrote:

...
Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...
James Knott [03-31-13 16:23]: Linda Walsh wrote:

...
We've already gotten to the point of updates telling us that our system needs to be rebooted for the updates to take effect... Does that apply to anything other than kernel updates? Not that I have seen, but Linda has ?systems? and ?configurations?.

----

...
Of course it does. For example, glibc. And many others, because the only assured⁽¹⁾ method to restart some system services is a restart (udev, hal, are classic examples).

(1) "assured" as in not needing a long explanation, and a long list of manual things to do. A restart is simply faster to explain and do.

Aw... come on, what can be more fun that going through "zypper ps" and nuking 'em one-by-one (for those ?systems? and ?configurations?, ya know..)

sounds somewhat masochistic. *Usually* most may be solved by merely dropping to runlevel 3 or 1/S and then taking care of the few remaining. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

23:49

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2013-03-31 at 19:35 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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* Linda Walsh [03-31-13 19:16]:

...
Carlos E.R. deftly wrote:

...

...
...
Of course it does. For example, glibc. And many others, because the only assured⁽¹⁾ method to restart some system services is a restart (udev, hal, are classic examples).

(1) "assured" as in not needing a long explanation, and a long list of manual things to do. A restart is simply faster to explain and do.

Aw... come on, what can be more fun that going through "zypper ps" and nuking 'em one-by-one (for those ?systems? and ?configurations?, ya know..)

I do, I do... I use one terminal for the zypper ps output, and another for the killing ;-) Now explain it so that anybody understands how to do it. Because sometimes it is services that you have to restart, or just some applications. Sometimes you have to log out, log in. Other times, you have to go to runlevel 3, and some other times even to level 1. On the rest, a reboot is /needed/.

...

sounds somewhat masochistic. *Usually* most may be solved by merely dropping to runlevel 3 or 1/S and then taking care of the few remaining.

Yes... But it is far simpler and even faster to say "reboot". Covers all cases >;-) Common, restarting services with systemd needs a book, with all those long commands to type! :-p - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlFYy4gACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XyNQCgh8meb3sWAENaZ4pjZx6toyXb awIAn00kAshkTy2XslTD3YQdnG8L7KrY =oHqA -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Linda Walsh

1 Apr 1 Apr

01:18

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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sounds somewhat masochistic.

I'm still trying to get disk booting working smoothly with latest factory.... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

02:39

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

* Carlos E. R. [03-31-13 19:52]: [...]

...

But it is far simpler and even faster to say "reboot". Covers all cases >;-)

Common, restarting services with systemd needs a book, with all those long commands to type! :-p

Shhhh, it's still a secret but I don't know of any services I have used that cannot still be restarted using: rc<service-name> restart And, since 12.3, the systemd services do not need the LongName syntax, ie: systemctl restart sshd.service systemctl restart sshd Some sanity appears to be returning. :^) -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

02:44

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

* Linda Walsh [03-31-13 21:21]:

...

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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sounds somewhat masochistic.

I'm still trying to get disk booting working smoothly with latest factory....

You still need to make some more changes to make it act more like minix. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Billie Walsh

02:55

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

The only time I've had to reboot on an update is when kernels are involved. May have been other ways but a reboot is simple enough. On the other hand, I find that after my computer has been up for a couple weeks straight a reboot seems to perk it up. Seems like things start to drag in general. Sometimes if it's just one program, closing and restarting does the trick. I guess it cleans up some detritus. -- “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.” -Albert Einstein _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

02:58

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2013-03-31 at 22:39 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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* Carlos E. R. <> [03-31-13 19:52]: [...]

...

...
Common, restarting services with systemd needs a book, with all those long commands to type! :-p

Shhhh, it's still a secret but I don't know of any services I have used that cannot still be restarted using: rc<service-name> restart

And, since 12.3, the systemd services do not need the LongName syntax, ie:

systemctl restart sshd.service systemctl restart sshd

What!? But that is wonderful! Why keep it secret! ;-p

...

Some sanity appears to be returning. :^)

Indeed... Now we need that when the system dumps us into emergency mode we get a helpful text hinting at the _real_ problem, as we had in systemv. And starting easily in text mode with all messages remaining in the screen. That would be bliss. ;-) (I still have to find out what to do about boot.crypto, though) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlFY9+sACgkQtTMYHG2NR9V7/gCgmFcC1LOi0Xeqtw9KNZ2yDozo YXoAoJAWdZBGPzDUMmIoP5SgxPYzqXs2 =xOH7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

03:06

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2013-03-31 at 21:55 -0500, Billie Walsh wrote:

...

The only time I've had to reboot on an update is when kernels are involved. May have been other ways but a reboot is simple enough.

Run "zypper ps" after any update you do, and then decide.

...

On the other hand, I find that after my computer has been up for a couple weeks straight a reboot seems to perk it up. Seems like things start to drag in general. Sometimes if it's just one program, closing and restarting does the trick. I guess it cleans up some detritus.

Not here at all: cer@Telcontar:~> uptime 05:06 up 16 days 12:17, 22 users, load average: 0,82, 0,37, 0,22 cer@Telcontar:~> - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlFY+dIACgkQtTMYHG2NR9W+5gCfWw4db6eM3kXFDs5nVlbSou0n hFwAnA+NrAZ1wLGjC6o/LvXfWJToFcle =Jv+Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Billie Walsh

03:20

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

On 03/31/2013 10:06 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On Sunday, 2013-03-31 at 21:55 -0500, Billie Walsh wrote:

...
The only time I've had to reboot on an update is when kernels are involved. May have been other ways but a reboot is simple enough.

Run "zypper ps" after any update you do, and then decide.

...
On the other hand, I find that after my computer has been up for a couple weeks straight a reboot seems to perk it up. Seems like things start to drag in general. Sometimes if it's just one program, closing and restarting does the trick. I guess it cleans up some detritus.

Not here at all:

cer@Telcontar:~> uptime 05:06 up 16 days 12:17, 22 users, load average: 0,82, 0,37, 0,22 cer@Telcontar:~>

- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)

If I'm reading that right its a server? I'm no expert but I think a server up time would be "used" different than a "production" computer. Not running fourteen or fifteen different applications, editing/creating large images and doing copying and pasting of large files. -- “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.” -Albert Einstein _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

03:38

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2013-03-31 at 22:20 -0500, Billie Walsh wrote:

...

If I'm reading that right its a server?

Nope, it is a desktop, but I have more server type services running than the average desktop user; some of them for the sole purpose of learning. And not all that uptime is real, I hibernate the machine when I go out.

...

I'm no expert but I think a server up time would be "used" different than a "production" computer. Not running fourteen or fifteen different applications, editing/creating large images and doing copying and pasting of large files.

I do that sometimes. It depends on the day. I may have 12 workspaces each filled with different applications. 1 GiB swap in use, and I have 8 GiB ram. Very snappy. There are some very memory hungry applications. The typical ones are thunderbird and mozilla. Another one is Libreoffice - but surprise, amarok is too. Have a look at the first lines of top sorted by memory usage: PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 17134 cer 20 0 1909m 874m 18m S 0 10.9 44:24.99 thunderbird-bin 31908 cer 20 0 3654m 509m 67m S 0 6.4 2:03.88 amarok 17205 cer 20 0 1626m 433m 21m S 0 5.4 41:52.61 firefox 20733 root 20 0 394m 247m 17m S 2 3.1 122:23.06 Xorg 1815 vscan 20 0 650m 184m 908 S 0 2.3 1:27.22 clamd 16982 cer 20 0 3880m 86m 5512 S 0 1.1 0:53.00 java 31575 cer 20 0 447m 55m 4736 S 1 0.7 8:17.58 plugin-containe Why amarok uses so much memory I can not imagine. It is even stopped at the moment... But well, most of it is virtual memory, and lots of that do not even exist; I guess that it counts holes or unused memory or assigned memory as if it is used. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlFZARsACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Ux4ACdEc+JxiCBPmwcQs54LvDwp3bj /zUAn0lCAXXXdR5CfrV6/oySyu2GHCIe =MAsB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

James Knott

11:39

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Of course it does. For example, glibc. And many others, because the only assured⁽¹⁾ method to restart some system services is a restart (udev, hal, are classic examples).

I have often used the rc<something> restart to do that. And there have also been times when I've just switched to run level 1 and then back to 5 (or 3). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

James Knott

11:50

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

Billie Walsh wrote:

...

On the other hand, I find that after my computer has been up for a couple weeks straight a reboot seems to perk it up. Seems like things start to drag in general.

Gee. I guess we really have reached Windows standards. ;-) Actually, in my experience, it's only Seamonkey and Firefox that exhibit that behavior. So, as long as I fully close them occasionally, I can keep that problem in check. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Billie Walsh

12:48

New subject: [opensuse] Re: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)

On 03/31/2013 10:38 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On Sunday, 2013-03-31 at 22:20 -0500, Billie Walsh wrote:

...
If I'm reading that right its a server?

Nope, it is a desktop, but I have more server type services running than the average desktop user; some of them for the sole purpose of learning. And not all that uptime is real, I hibernate the machine when I go out.

Mine just runs continuous. I turn the monitor off when I go to bed or am going to be away from home for hours. Other than that ......................

...

...
I'm no expert but I think a server up time would be "used" different than a "production" computer. Not running fourteen or fifteen different applications, editing/creating large images and doing copying and pasting of large files.

I do that sometimes. It depends on the day. I may have 12 workspaces each filled with different applications. 1 GiB swap in use, and I have 8 GiB ram. Very snappy.

There are some very memory hungry applications. The typical ones are thunderbird and mozilla. Another one is Libreoffice - but surprise, amarok is too.

Firefox and T-Bird run continuous. I might have 20 or 25 pages open in Firefox on any given day. That probably sucks up memory like a vacuum. I noticed it getting a bit sluggish this morning. Doing heavy Gimp usage sucks it up also. All those changes in "memory" to be able to go back to a certain point. That seems to clear real well when you close that image though. Bluefish will just grind to a halt after about a week of heavy use. Have to close it and re-open. There have been times when I had to "terminate" because it just froze on closing. -- “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.” -Albert Einstein _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

5 Apr 5 Apr

20:39

New subject: [opensuse] Checking services to restart after an update [Was: We have finally reached Windows standards :-)]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Content-ID: On Sunday, 2013-03-31 at 23:33 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On Sunday, 2013-03-31 at 16:21 -0400, James Knott wrote:

...
Linda Walsh wrote:

...
...
We've already gotten to the point of updates telling us that our system needs to be rebooted for the updates to take effect...

Does that apply to anything other than kernel updates?

Of course it does. For example, glibc. And many others, because the only assured⁽¹⁾ method to restart some system services is a restart (udev, hal, are classic examples).

(1) "assured" as in not needing a long explanation, and a long list of manual things to do. A restart is simply faster to explain and do.

So, let's try a "zypper patch". This is what it wants to do (yep, I don't run it every day): +++············································ Resolving package dependencies... The following NEW patches are going to be installed: openSUSE-2013-251 openSUSE-2013-252 openSUSE-2013-257 openSUSE-2013-263 openSUSE-2013-265 openSUSE-2013-271 openSUSE-2013-289 openSUSE-2013-291 openSUSE-2013-296 openSUSE-2013-298 openSUSE-2013-299 openSUSE-2013-303 openSUSE-2013-307 openSUSE-2013-308 openSUSE-2013-309 The following packages are going to be upgraded: ImageMagick MozillaFirefox MozillaThunderbird apache2 apache2-doc apache2-example-pages apache2-prefork apache2-utils bind bind-chrootenv bind-doc bind-libs bind-utils clamav clamav-db dhcp dhcp-client dhcp-server enigmail libGraphicsMagick++3 libGraphicsMagick3 libMagick++5 libMagickCore5 libMagickWand5 libecpg6 libfreebl3 libfreebl3-32bit libnet1 libpq5 libsoftokn3 libsoftokn3-32bit libxml2 libxml2-32bit libxml2-devel libxslt-devel libxslt1 libxslt1-32bit make mozilla-nspr mozilla-nspr-32bit mozilla-nspr-devel mozilla-nss mozilla-nss-32bit mozilla-nss-certs mozilla-nss-certs-32bit mozilla-nss-devel patch perl-PerlMagick postgresql91 postgresql91-devel postgresql91-server ruby ruby-devel seamonkey seamonkey-dom-inspector seamonkey-irc sysconfig 57 packages to upgrade. Overall download size: 128.8 MiB. After the operation, additional 3.8 MiB will be used. ············································++- After it finishes, a "zypper ps" produces 367 lines of output. I have to restart all these: +++············································ The following running processes use deleted files (many lines removed for simplicity): PID | PPID | UID | Login | Command | Service | Files - ------+-------+------+--------+----------------------------+---------+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 343 | 20898 | 1000 | cer | threaded-ml | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 1964 | 1963 | 0 | root | dovecot-auth | | /usr/lib64/libpq.so.5.4 2046 | 1 | 44 | named | named | named | /usr/lib64/libdns.so.88.1.1 ... 6104 | 1 | 0 | root | upowerd | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 14916 | 1 | 1000 | cer | evince | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 15417 | 1963 | 0 | root | dovecot-auth | | /usr/lib64/libpq.so.5.4 15593 | 19803 | 30 | wwwrun | httpd2-prefork | | /usr/lib64/apache2/mod_authz_default.so ... 15595 | 19803 | 30 | wwwrun | httpd2-prefork | | /usr/lib64/apache2/mod_authz_default.so ... 15596 | 19803 | 30 | wwwrun | httpd2-prefork | | /usr/lib64/apache2/mod_authz_default.so ... 19761 | 1 | 1000 | cer | xfrun4 | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 19803 | 1 | 0 | root | httpd2-prefork | | /usr/lib64/apache2/mod_authz_default.so ... 20897 | 20881 | 1000 | cer | Thunar | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 20898 | 20881 | 1000 | cer | xfce4-panel | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 20900 | 1 | 1000 | cer | xfsettingsd | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 20901 | 20881 | 1000 | cer | xfdesktop | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 20927 | 20898 | 1000 | cer | wrapper | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 21056 | 1 | 1000 | cer | gvfs-afc-volume-monitor | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 21068 | 1 | 1000 | cer | evolution-alarm-notify | | /usr/lib64/libnssutil3.so ... 21088 | 1 | 1000 | cer | pk-update-icon | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 21092 | 1 | 1000 | cer | nm-applet | | /usr/lib64/libnssutil3.so ... 21110 | 1 | 1000 | cer | tracker-miner-fs | | /usr/lib64/libnssutil3.so ... 21112 | 1 | 1000 | cer | bluetooth-applet | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 21124 | 1 | 1000 | cer | e-calendar-factory | | /usr/lib64/libnssutil3.so ... 21139 | 1 | 1000 | cer | xfce4-volumed | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 21170 | 1 | 1000 | cer | e-addressbook-factory | | /usr/lib64/libnssutil3.so ... 21174 | 1 | 1000 | cer | goa-daemon | | /usr/lib64/libxslt.so.1.1.26 | | | | | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 21210 | 1 | 1000 | cer | task0 | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 22247 | 1 | 1000 | cer | gvfsd-http | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 22842 | 22841 | 1000 | cer | klauncher | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 29902 | 0 | 1000 | cer | mozStorage | | /usr/lib64/libnss3.so ... 30072 | 0 | 1000 | cer | JS | | /usr/lib64/libsmime3.so ... 30241 | 30072 | 1000 | cer | plugin-container (deleted) | | /usr/lib64/libsmime3.so ... 31908 | 1 | 1000 | cer | amarok | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 31925 | 1 | 1000 | cer | kglobalaccel | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 31951 | 22841 | 1000 | cer | kdeinit4 | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 32038 | 1 | 1000 | cer | knotify4 | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 You may wish to restart these processes. See 'man zypper' for information about the meaning of values in the above table. ············································++- There are some client applications, like evince, that I should restart. But there are many that have to be restarted by the desktop, like "kglobalaccel", nm-applet, xfce4-panel... so I have to at least log out/in. After doing that, "zypper ps" still shows 244 lines. I have to manually restart some services: +++············································ rcapache2 restart rcnamed restart rcdovecot restart ············································++- After doing that, all is not yet done, see: +++············································ Telcontar:~ # zypper ps The following running processes use deleted files: PID | PPID | UID | Login | Command | Service | Files - ------+------+------+-------+----------+---------+---------------------------- 6104 | 1 | 0 | root | upowerd | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 31951 | 1 | 1000 | cer | kdeinit4 | | /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2.7.8 You may wish to restart these processes. See 'man zypper' for information about the meaning of values in the above table. Telcontar:~ # ············································++- How do I restart "upowerd"? There is no rc script, I don't know what started it. kdeinit might be restarted by doing an "init 3", but it doesn't. I'm running runlevel 3 right now. So the next step, before doing a reboot, is an "init 1". And that finally worked. Back on runlevel 5 again. A reboot was not required, but almost so: an "init 1" closes all services. If I had users using shared folders, printers, mail clients,, whatever... they would had been disrupted. (All that was using 12.1 and systemv. I don't know yet what the equivalent commands in systemd are, specially to get to runlevel 1 and back...) Probably a reboot would have been faster :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEUEARECAAYFAlFfNoIACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Xm4wCYqm9WqG/zXzt9aCzUxsfOnYnQ oQCgjX11URHp3MNmN+J2b4oYvLeGVUI= =0DGe -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Basil Chupin
Billie Walsh
Carlos E. R.
Hans Witvliet
James Knott
Linda Walsh
Patrick Shanahan