Doesn't ANYONE use SCSI CD-ROM's?
I think I've lost more time to this cotton-pickin' "resmgr" than any other problem in Linux. Once again, with this new version (9.2), I have to sort out why programs like Grip and sound-juicer can't read from my SCSI CD-ROM. Now, mind you, Grip can read the CD, and lookup the info in the CDDB, but I can't actually, you know, READ IT for actually playing the CD or ripping from it. Explain that one to me. Apparently, I'm the only mortal on the planet who has an actual, real-life SCSI CD-ROM. Because this problem has existed ever since SuSE decided to start using this infernal "resmgr" software. I've once again hacked up /etc/resmgr.conf, restarted the daemon, and as root done both ``resmgr logout <user>'' and ``resmgr login <user> :0''. As my user, I can see: rws- /dev/cdrom rws- /dev/cdrom11 rw-p /dev/dvd rws- /dev/sr0 rws- /dev/sr1 Which shows that I *ought* to have read-write access to my SCSI CD-ROM, my SCSI CD-RW, my IDE DVD ($10 after rebate!), and the base SCSI devices pointed to by the /dev/cdrom and /dev/cdrom11 devices. I've even got this on the actual device: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 Nov 2 18:43 /dev/cdrom -> sr0 brw------- 1 david disk 11, 0 Oct 2 03:38 /dev/sr0 I'm at a loss. Again. Can anyone out there tell me how many chickens I'm going to have to sacrifice before resmgr lets me access my hardware? And just to head it off early, yeah, I can rip a CD from the IDE DVD, but this same problem is also preventing me from burning discs with K3B. Thanks, dk
On Thursday 04 November 2004 08:51 pm, David Krider wrote:
I think I've lost more time to this cotton-pickin' "resmgr" than any other problem in Linux. Once again, with this new version (9.2), I have to sort out why programs like Grip and sound-juicer can't read from my SCSI CD-ROM. Now, mind you, Grip can read the CD, and lookup the info in the CDDB, but I can't actually, you know, READ IT for actually playing the CD or ripping from it.
Explain that one to me.
Apparently, I'm the only mortal on the planet who has an actual, real-life SCSI CD-ROM. Because this problem has existed ever since SuSE decided to start using this infernal "resmgr" software.
I've once again hacked up /etc/resmgr.conf, restarted the daemon, and as root done both ``resmgr logout <user>'' and ``resmgr login <user> :0''. As my user, I can see:
rws- /dev/cdrom rws- /dev/cdrom11 rw-p /dev/dvd rws- /dev/sr0 rws- /dev/sr1
Which shows that I *ought* to have read-write access to my SCSI CD-ROM, my SCSI CD-RW, my IDE DVD ($10 after rebate!), and the base SCSI devices pointed to by the /dev/cdrom and /dev/cdrom11 devices. I've even got this on the actual device:
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 Nov 2 18:43 /dev/cdrom -> sr0 brw------- 1 david disk 11, 0 Oct 2 03:38 /dev/sr0
I'm at a loss. Again. Can anyone out there tell me how many chickens I'm going to have to sacrifice before resmgr lets me access my hardware?
And just to head it off early, yeah, I can rip a CD from the IDE DVD, but this same problem is also preventing me from burning discs with K3B.
Thanks, dk
David, Just curious, but have you tried disconnecting the IDE dvd drive and just leave nothing but the scsi devices connected? This is just a thought pulled out of the blue, but I'm wondering if there is a conflict between the devices or the fact that both are there that might be confusing things. You haven't mentioned removing one or the other, I don't believe. Regards, Lee -- --- KMail v1.7.1 --- SuSE Linux Pro v9.1 --- Registered Linux User #225206 "Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game!"
On Thu, 2004-11-04 at 21:52 -0500, BandiPat wrote:
Just curious, but have you tried disconnecting the IDE dvd drive and just leave nothing but the scsi devices connected?
I've had this problem (of hassling with resmgr) since 9.0 and before I got the DVD. You can even google up this sort of thing and see the problem played out on this list back then. On my work machine, I had a SCSI DVD and CD-RW and an IDE CD-ROM. Same sorts of problems. I worked through the resmgr config back then, but now I can't get it to work at all. The bottom line is that if the answer lies in moving cables around, I'm through with Linux. I'm tired of this sort of thing. I have to stomp all sorts of little problems like this with every release. I keep thinking that it will all be great with the next rev, but it's always the same story. I recently got a new laptop at work -- a top of the line Dell M60, which is nice -- but I got told by my new manager that I couldn't run Linux on it. The whole job sort of sucks for various reasons, but I'm trying to give it my best, so I bit the bullet, and just installed Windows on it. This is the first time I've "lived" in Windows for 6 or 7 years now. Of course, I've always had some Windows lying around for gaming and such, but I've been running a Linux desktop at home and work for that long. The ease of use and strong laptop support in Windows makes these sorts of problems all the more obvious and ridiculous. I mean, what's the point of an extra daemon that completely invalidates the use of perfectly good, old-fashioned device permissions? Why the extra layer on top of logindevperm? Note that I'm not saying Windows is perfect, though. In fact, I loved the fact that I had to hold up a conference call with my manager today while my laptop had to reboot after running the NetMeeting wizard for the first time. And that sort of thing drives me nuts as well. I just want it to work. dk
David Krider writes:
... The ease of use and strong laptop support in Windows makes these sorts of problems all the more obvious and ridiculous.
Herein lies the problem. Windows, like it or not, still represents a huge majority of the OS running on desktops and laptops. Numbers count, so makers of hardware devices automatically supply drivers and software support for their products, either by including it with the product or giving to MS to be included within Windows. Linux, on the other hand, works on a totally different model. Most drivers and software for devices are developed by people not connected with their makers. In a significant percentage of cases it is done without any documentation or support. Given that, it is quite amazing that Linux works on such a large array of computers and devices at all. Linux is gaining, but it will take time for more vendors to provide direct support. Also, many vendors haven't really figured out the open source philosophy and that sometimes gets to be a problem. As for SCSI CD/DVD drives, most makers of these drives have abandoned SCSI. Sad to say, but their (much) higher prices compared to the IDE counterparts don't help at all. If people don't buy the product then they stop making them. SCSI is alive and strong in the server disk drive business, however, where businesses are willing to pay more for the extra performance and reliability. It's interesting that most of the big servers include an IDE interface specifically for the CD or DVD drive. It's because 1). It's cheaper, and CD/DVD devices are not usually mission critical; 2) They, like us, can't buy SCSI CD/DVD drives anymore. All that said, I still have some older SCSI CD-ROM drives in my machines and they work just fine under SuSE 9.1. -Ti -- Ti Kan http://www.amb.org/ti Vorsprung durch Technik
On 05-Nov-04 Ti Kan wrote:
[...] Linux, on the other hand, works on a totally different model. Most drivers and software for devices are developed by people not connected with their makers. In a significant percentage of cases it is done without any documentation or support. Given that, it is quite amazing that Linux works on such a large array of computers and devices at all. Linux is gaining, but it will take time for more vendors to provide direct support. Also, many vendors haven't really figured out the open source philosophy and that sometimes gets to be a problem. [...]
Things used to be different (in increasingly long time ago ... ).
When I got my first "personal computer" -- a Sharp MZ80B (Z-80 based
64K CP/M machine), *in the box* was a complete technical manual with
the machine code for the operating system and the specs for the
interrupts and data registers for the attached devices (screen RAM
and tape drive in the first istance). When I bought serial board and
floppy drive add-ons, these too came with the same full specs.
Likewise the independently manufactured Anderson-Jacobson 300-baud
modem I got later.
So you could program anything with your own bare hands (and I did:
anyone interested in a serial modem comms program, "terminal
emulator", written in FORTRAN??? [guess why]).
But things have changed. I really wonder what manufacturers think
they gain by concealing the interface specs for their devices.
Maybe it's just too much trouble and expense for the no doubt
small fraction of the market that really wants to know. However,
there's no doubt that it can make the going very sticky for Linux.
Best wishes to all,
Ted.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail: (Ted Harding)
On Friday 05 November 2004 13:06, Ted Harding wrote:
On 05-Nov-04 Ti Kan wrote:
Things used to be different (in increasingly long time ago ... ).
When I got my first "personal computer" -- a Sharp MZ80B (Z-80 based 64K CP/M machine), *in the box* was a complete technical manual with the machine code for the operating system and the specs for the interrupts and data registers for the attached devices (screen RAM and tape drive in the first istance). When I bought serial board and floppy drive add-ons, these too came with the same full specs. Likewise the independently manufactured Anderson-Jacobson 300-baud modem I got later.
So you could program anything with your own bare hands (and I did: anyone interested in a serial modem comms program, "terminal emulator", written in FORTRAN??? [guess why]).
But things have changed. I really wonder what manufacturers think they gain by concealing the interface specs for their devices. Maybe it's just too much trouble and expense for the no doubt small fraction of the market that really wants to know. However, there's no doubt that it can make the going very sticky for Linux.
It's all about the bucks. Doesn't matter which kind. They don't want everyone to have their secrets. Once they do, then they automatically assume that someone will copy their idea and they will lose money. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 9.2 Kernel 2.6.8 KDE 3.3.0 Kmail 1.7.1 For Mondo/Mindi backup support go to http://www.mikenjane.net/~mike 4:32pm up 1 day 22:40, 5 users, load average: 2.89, 2.72, 2.68
Ti Kan wrote:
David Krider writes:
... The ease of use and strong laptop support in Windows makes these sorts of problems all the more obvious and ridiculous.
All that said, I still have some older SCSI CD-ROM drives in my machines and they work just fine under SuSE 9.1.
Well, back to my original point, I don't think it's the fact that I have SCSI, per-se. The hardware is fine, as are the drivers. It's just that the people writing and bundling resmgr into the OS don't seem to notice the problems that they're creating for SCSI users. dk
On Friday 05 November 2004 04:51, David Krider wrote:
On Thu, 2004-11-04 at 21:52 -0500, BandiPat wrote:
Just curious, but have you tried disconnecting the IDE dvd drive and just leave nothing but the scsi devices connected?
I've had this problem (of hassling with resmgr) since 9.0 and before I got the DVD. You can even google up this sort of thing and see the problem played out on this list back then. On my work machine, I had a SCSI DVD and CD-RW and an IDE CD-ROM. Same sorts of problems. I worked through the resmgr config back then, but now I can't get it to work at all.
The bottom line is that if the answer lies in moving cables around, I'm through with Linux. I'm tired of this sort of thing. I have to stomp all sorts of little problems like this with every release. I keep thinking that it will all be great with the next rev, but it's always the same story.
I recently got a new laptop at work -- a top of the line Dell M60, which is nice -- but I got told by my new manager that I couldn't run Linux on it. The whole job sort of sucks for various reasons, but I'm trying to give it my best, so I bit the bullet, and just installed Windows on it. This is the first time I've "lived" in Windows for 6 or 7 years now. Of course, I've always had some Windows lying around for gaming and such, but I've been running a Linux desktop at home and work for that long.
The ease of use and strong laptop support in Windows makes these sorts of problems all the more obvious and ridiculous. I mean, what's the point of an extra daemon that completely invalidates the use of perfectly good, old-fashioned device permissions? Why the extra layer on top of logindevperm? Note that I'm not saying Windows is perfect, though. In fact, I loved the fact that I had to hold up a conference call with my manager today while my laptop had to reboot after running the NetMeeting wizard for the first time. And that sort of thing drives me nuts as well.
I just want it to work.
dk
Do yourself a favor... Bite the Bullet, and either.... Trash the Blasted SCSI CDROM... or pay someone to fix-it... Which is one option more you have than if you ran out of support for for your hardware on windows.... No I'm not joking... I've got a logitech webcam in my closet... Not supported on windows 2000, nor XP, nor Linux!... Though I haven't tried under ME, wine, cause I spent way too much time playing with it (on every single operating system release) so that to save me time (and thereby money) I went and bought a new webcam. The price was irrelevant since there is noway I could justify the amount of time I spent on that stupid thing... Sure the answer is not perfect, but trashing linux cause it's not working on your old "exotic" hardware is rather silly... (Before you start bitch'n, you wanna ask for a count on how many people have SCSI CDROMs and DVDs now-a-days?) Just my Humble Opion... Jerry
On Friday 05 Nov 2004 16:04, Jerry Westrick wrote:
On Friday 05 November 2004 04:51, David Krider wrote:
On Thu, 2004-11-04 at 21:52 -0500, BandiPat wrote:
Just curious, but have you tried disconnecting the IDE dvd drive and just leave nothing but the scsi devices connected?
I've had this problem (of hassling with resmgr) since 9.0 and before I got the DVD. You can even google up this sort of thing and see the problem played out on this list back then. On my work machine, I had a SCSI DVD and CD-RW and an IDE CD-ROM. Same sorts of problems. I worked through the resmgr config back then, but now I can't get it to work at all.
The bottom line is that if the answer lies in moving cables around, I'm through with Linux. I'm tired of this sort of thing. I have to stomp all sorts of little problems like this with every release. I keep thinking that it will all be great with the next rev, but it's always the same story.
I recently got a new laptop at work -- a top of the line Dell M60, which is nice -- but I got told by my new manager that I couldn't run Linux on it. The whole job sort of sucks for various reasons, but I'm trying to give it my best, so I bit the bullet, and just installed Windows on it. This is the first time I've "lived" in Windows for 6 or 7 years now. Of course, I've always had some Windows lying around for gaming and such, but I've been running a Linux desktop at home and work for that long.
The ease of use and strong laptop support in Windows makes these sorts of problems all the more obvious and ridiculous. I mean, what's the point of an extra daemon that completely invalidates the use of perfectly good, old-fashioned device permissions? Why the extra layer on top of logindevperm? Note that I'm not saying Windows is perfect, though. In fact, I loved the fact that I had to hold up a conference call with my manager today while my laptop had to reboot after running the NetMeeting wizard for the first time. And that sort of thing drives me nuts as well.
I just want it to work.
dk
Do yourself a favor... Bite the Bullet, and either.... Trash the Blasted SCSI CDROM... or pay someone to fix-it...
Which is one option more you have than if you ran out of support for for your hardware on windows....
No I'm not joking... I've got a logitech webcam in my closet... Not supported on windows 2000, nor XP, nor Linux!...
Though I haven't tried under ME, wine, cause I spent way too much time playing with it (on every single operating system release) so that to save me time (and thereby money) I went and bought a new webcam. The price was irrelevant since there is noway I could justify the amount of time I spent on that stupid thing...
Sure the answer is not perfect, but trashing linux cause it's not working on your old "exotic" hardware is rather silly...
(Before you start bitch'n, you wanna ask for a count on how many people have SCSI CDROMs and DVDs now-a-days?)
Just my Humble Opion...
Jerry you need to be VERY HUMBLE AS WELL a lot more than you think jst cause you are on of the SATA brigade dont trash what is STILL an MAINSTREAM interface .
Pete . PS Slack ware supports scsi no problem.. -- Linux user No: 256242 Machine No: 139931 G6NJR Pete also MSA registered "Quinton 11" A Linux Only area Happy bug hunting M$ clan, The time is here to FORGET that M$ Corp ever existed the world does not NEED M$ Corp the world has NO USE for M$ Corp it is time to END M$ Corp , Play time is over folks time for action approaches at an alarming pace the death knell for M$ Copr has been sounded . Termination time is around the corner ..
On Friday 05 November 2004 10:05, peter Nikolic wrote:
On Friday 05 Nov 2004 16:04, Jerry Westrick wrote:
On Friday 05 November 2004 04:51, David Krider wrote:
On Thu, 2004-11-04 at 21:52 -0500, BandiPat wrote:
Just curious, but have you tried disconnecting the IDE dvd drive and just leave nothing but the scsi devices connected? <snip>
Do yourself a favor... Bite the Bullet, and either.... Trash the Blasted SCSI CDROM... or pay someone to fix-it...
<snip>
Just my Humble Opion...
Jerry
you need to be VERY HUMBLE AS WELL a lot more than you think jst cause you are on of the SATA brigade dont trash what is STILL an MAINSTREAM interface .
Pete .
PS Slack ware supports scsi no problem..
Upps, in that case... I withdraw my humble and NOT SO GOOD opinion.. (a very humbled) Jerry
On Friday 05 Nov 2004 01:51, David Krider wrote:
I think I've lost more time to this cotton-pickin' "resmgr" than any other problem in Linux. Once again, with this new version (9.2), I have to sort out why programs like Grip and sound-juicer can't read from my SCSI CD-ROM. Now, mind you, Grip can read the CD, and lookup the info in the CDDB, but I can't actually, you know, READ IT for actually playing the CD or ripping from it.
Explain that one to me.
Apparently, I'm the only mortal on the planet who has an actual, real-life SCSI CD-ROM. Because this problem has existed ever since SuSE decided to start using this infernal "resmgr" software.
I've once again hacked up /etc/resmgr.conf, restarted the daemon, and as root done both ``resmgr logout <user>'' and ``resmgr login <user> :0''. As my user, I can see:
rws- /dev/cdrom rws- /dev/cdrom11 rw-p /dev/dvd rws- /dev/sr0 rws- /dev/sr1
Which shows that I *ought* to have read-write access to my SCSI CD-ROM, my SCSI CD-RW, my IDE DVD ($10 after rebate!), and the base SCSI devices pointed to by the /dev/cdrom and /dev/cdrom11 devices. I've even got this on the actual device:
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 Nov 2 18:43 /dev/cdrom -> sr0 brw------- 1 david disk 11, 0 Oct 2 03:38 /dev/sr0
I'm at a loss. Again. Can anyone out there tell me how many chickens I'm going to have to sacrifice before resmgr lets me access my hardware?
And just to head it off early, yeah, I can rip a CD from the IDE DVD, but this same problem is also preventing me from burning discs with K3B.
Thanks, dk
I used to run an scsi cdw/rw derive plus 2 scsi hdd's but since the upgrade to 9.2 i have had to re-site them into an slackware box to gain access to them as someone has broken the Advansys driver i need for my scsi card it seems to me that people are trying to force us to switch to this darn full of problems SATA stuff i only got one thing to say there less chance than no chance. It seem Suse is going away from things like scsi which makes no sense at all when you consider the amount of installed scsi there is out there , Either that or switch to an Adaptec card well the last few of those i tried were all but useless door stops . Have fun (i dont think so) Pete . -- Linux user No: 256242 Machine No: 139931 G6NJR Pete also MSA registered "Quinton 11" A Linux Only area Happy bug hunting M$ clan, The time is here to FORGET that M$ Corp ever existed the world does not NEED M$ Corp the world has NO USE for M$ Corp it is time to END M$ Corp , Play time is over folks time for action approaches at an alarming pace the death knell for M$ Copr has been sounded . Termination time is around the corner ..
On Thursday 04 November 2004 08:51 pm, David Krider wrote:
I think I've lost more time to this cotton-pickin' "resmgr" than any other problem in Linux. Once again, with this new version (9.2), I have to sort out why programs like Grip and sound-juicer can't read from my SCSI CD-ROM. Now, mind you, Grip can read the CD, and lookup the info in the CDDB, but I can't actually, you know, READ IT for actually playing the CD or ripping from it.
Explain that one to me.
Apparently, I'm the only mortal on the planet who has an actual, real-life SCSI CD-ROM. Because this problem has existed ever since SuSE decided to start using this infernal "resmgr" software.
Nope.... I've got one too as well as a dvd writer on /dev/hda. grip was working well on 9.1 but yesterday I installed 9.2 and discovered that I wasn't able to use the cd reader (actually a dvd reader) to install extra pieces of software. The /dev/hda device works fine for that but not the cd player. At one point, I put the install dvd in sr0 and I could see files there, but when I went to do an rpm on one, I got a read error. Strange. I haven't loaded up lame yet to try grip but I'll let you know how it goes.
I've once again hacked up /etc/resmgr.conf, restarted the daemon, and as root done both ``resmgr logout <user>'' and ``resmgr login <user> :0''. As my user, I can see:
rws- /dev/cdrom rws- /dev/cdrom11 rw-p /dev/dvd rws- /dev/sr0 rws- /dev/sr1
Which shows that I *ought* to have read-write access to my SCSI CD-ROM, my SCSI CD-RW, my IDE DVD ($10 after rebate!), and the base SCSI devices pointed to by the /dev/cdrom and /dev/cdrom11 devices. I've even got this on the actual device:
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 Nov 2 18:43 /dev/cdrom -> sr0 brw------- 1 david disk 11, 0 Oct 2 03:38 /dev/sr0
I'm at a loss. Again. Can anyone out there tell me how many chickens I'm going to have to sacrifice before resmgr lets me access my hardware?
And just to head it off early, yeah, I can rip a CD from the IDE DVD, but this same problem is also preventing me from burning discs with K3B.
Thanks, dk
I think I've lost more time to this cotton-pickin' "resmgr" than any other problem in Linux. Once again, with this new version (9.2), I have to sort out why programs like Grip and sound-juicer can't read from my SCSI CD-ROM. Now, mind you, Grip can read the CD, and lookup the info in the CDDB, but I can't actually, you know, READ IT for actually playing the CD or ripping from it.
Explain that one to me.
Apparently, I'm the only mortal on the planet who has an actual, real-life SCSI CD-ROM. Because this problem has existed ever since SuSE decided to start using this infernal "resmgr" software.
I've once again hacked up /etc/resmgr.conf, restarted the daemon, and as root done both ``resmgr logout <user>'' and ``resmgr login <user> :0''. As my user, I can see:
rws- /dev/cdrom rws- /dev/cdrom11 rw-p /dev/dvd rws- /dev/sr0 rws- /dev/sr1
Which shows that I *ought* to have read-write access to my SCSI CD-ROM, my SCSI CD-RW, my IDE DVD ($10 after rebate!), and the base SCSI devices pointed to by the /dev/cdrom and /dev/cdrom11 devices. I've even got this on the actual device:
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 Nov 2 18:43 /dev/cdrom -> sr0 brw------- 1 david disk 11, 0 Oct 2 03:38 /dev/sr0
I'm at a loss. Again. Can anyone out there tell me how many chickens I'm going to have to sacrifice before resmgr lets me access my hardware?
And just to head it off early, yeah, I can rip a CD from the IDE DVD, but this same problem is also preventing me from burning discs with K3B.
Thanks, dk I might not be able to solve your problem but.... What SCSI adapter are you using? I heard the advansys one is broken in 9.2 which is why I'm not upgrading.... Also, which version of K3b are you using? I was using v0.11.15 but I could not get it to accept my IDE or SCSI CD writers, upgrading to 0.11.17 cured that
On Friday 05 November 2004 01:51, David Krider wrote: problem. I still had the problem that I couldn't write mp3's to CD because the 0.11.17.pm.2 K3b rpm was dependant on id3lib-3.8.2.pm.2 rpm, but the actual program was linked against id3lib-3.8.2-233 so a quick rpm --force sorted things out. For me the SCSI & IDE CD Devices are both working now, although, I had to remove grip when I upgraded the id3lib rpm and have'nt re-installed it. I use kaudiocreator instead now. There is a thread that leads through the tail of woe, look for mp3 to cdda Best of luck Phil
On Thu, 2004-11-04 at 20:51 -0500, David Krider wrote:
rws- /dev/cdrom rws- /dev/cdrom11 rw-p /dev/dvd rws- /dev/sr0 rws- /dev/sr1
Just thought I'd followup my own post. I played with this some more this evening, and everything started working. I had gone back to the same config as above. I don't know what happened for sure, but my guess is that I didn't get a new "login" with resmgr properly, and I went on to trying other configs having missed the one that worked all along. Ah well. That's half the fun, I suppose. Regards all, dk
participants (9)
-
BandiPat -
Bruce Marshall -
David Krider -
Jerry Westrick -
Mike -
peter Nikolic -
Phil Burness -
Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk -
ti＠amb.org