[opensuse] Spamassassin Dependency in kde?
I have the opensuse repository for kde3 in my list of updates. Today it has 77 updates, but in the process it wants to install spamassassin 3.1.3, which is back level by several releases. I run SA 3.1.7 and install from CPAN, and I don't want to go back to 3.1.3. So which of kde packages insists on installing SA. Question 2: Is the Software updater ever going to be less brain dead than it is now so that you can find out about these things, and over ride them when you know the package is already installed? -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
John Andersen wrote:
Today it has 77 updates, but in the process it wants to install spamassassin 3.1.3, which is back level by several releases. I run SA 3.1.7 and install from CPAN, and I don't want to go back to 3.1.3.
So which of kde packages insists on installing SA.
Don't know, but unless the rpm database knows about the install, it can only act on what it knows.
Question 2: Is the Software updater ever going to be less brain dead than it is now so that you can find out about these things, and over ride them when you know the package is already installed? Since they all rely on rpm on a rpm based distro, unless you allow it to work as designed, that answer is no. If CPAN installed it via rpm, then yes.
-- Joe Morris Registered Linux user 231871 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 01 December 2006 20:35, Joe Morris (NTM) wrote:
If CPAN installed it via rpm, then yes.
Thats an option? Never heard of it. But If I just knew which package in the repository had the dependency I could choose to ignore that package, no? -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
On Saturday 02 December 2006 06:01, John Andersen wrote:
So which of kde packages insists on installing SA.
kdepim3 recommends now, not requires, Spamassassin. Bye, Steve -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 01 December 2006 23:12, Stephan Binner wrote:
On Saturday 02 December 2006 06:01, John Andersen wrote:
So which of kde packages insists on installing SA.
kdepim3 recommends now, not requires, Spamassassin.
Bye, Steve
The software updater (zmd) pops up a message saying it is going to install spamassassin. Your only choice is Ok or Cancel. If you select OK, it totally hozes your spamassassin with a back level version. If you click Cancel, it cancels ALL updates. GRRRRRR! So, the way I look at it, it does REQUIRE SA. So I thought I would do this upgrade using Yast and outsmart the software updater. Went into Yast update, selected all updates from the KDE:/KDE3 repository, then did a search for Spamassassin, and marked it tabo. Then I did the update. The damn thing updated (backdated) Spamassassin anyway ignoring the tabo. GRRRRRRR! Back to CPAN and re-install. Its still broken, even tho its running, nothing is being sent thru SA. I have to start from scratch and see what's going on. Spamassassin is one of those packages that has to be up to date or it is essentially useless. If Suse is going to make it required (even if you only THINK it is recommended) then you have to keep it up to date. Either that, or don't bother. Just install all the perl prerequsites and a shell script to get what ever is the current SA via cpan. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
On Saturday 02 December 2006 09:50, John Andersen wrote:
or it is essentially useless. If Suse is going to make it required (even if you only THINK it is recommended) then you have to keep
I know that it's only recommended, feel free to file bugs against the package management at https://bugzilla.novell.com/ Bye, Steve -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2006-12-01 at 23:50 -0900, John Andersen wrote:
The software updater (zmd) pops up a message saying it is going to install spamassassin. Your only choice is Ok or Cancel. If you select OK, it totally hozes your spamassassin with a back level version.
In Yast/you, select the view to see what is going to be installed, or search for the spamassassin package, then mark is as "taboo". You can then go on with the update, it will not be installed. Unfortunately, you will have to do this every time, the setting doesn't use to keep, not always. Another trick is to create an almost empty rpm named like the package it wants to install, or even better, like the new version you in fact have, and install it. Then the rpm database will not propose to install what it thinks it has installed. You can create that rpm with: md spamassassin-3.1.3-3.2 (or newer) cd checkinstall touch whatever
Spamassassin is one of those packages that has to be up to date or it is essentially useless.
SuSE's version is fine and catches something like 99% of the spam I get, and I get it by the hundred per day. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFcV0+tTMYHG2NR9URAnsGAJ9hKv9/O2iW51NFjUEZ89l0khkpwwCdHeIr Bv6msA1dh6dP5njH2RLKxCM= =jF5j -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 02 December 2006 02:02, Carlos E. R. wrote:
In Yast/you, select the view to see what is going to be installed, or search for the spamassassin package, then mark is as "taboo". You can then go on with the update, it will not be installed
Tried that, it installed it anyway. Apparently the Yast developers work on a different definition of taboo than you or I. I might try creating the fake rpm trick. Have to read up on checkinstall. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-12-02 at 02:06 -0900, John Andersen wrote:
On Saturday 02 December 2006 02:02, Carlos E. R. wrote:
In Yast/you, select the view to see what is going to be installed, or search for the spamassassin package, then mark is as "taboo". You can then go on with the update, it will not be installed
Tried that, it installed it anyway.
Apparently the Yast developers work on a different definition of taboo than you or I.
Ah :-O :-(
I might try creating the fake rpm trick. Have to read up on checkinstall.
Nothing to read, actually... it just creates an rpm out of the output of whatever command you give it. The typical use is with no parameters, in which case it runs "make install", the standard installation command for most projects. The rpm is given the name of the directory in which the compilation is made. Everything can be overridden with options. It has a simple text menu. It doesn't create optimum rpms, but they are rpms, keeps the database happy, and makes easy to uninstall your own compiled packages. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFcWN/tTMYHG2NR9URAoTOAJsH7Wyjv+OpgajT5lcXDjDDPc/FkgCeNXjP W1FEugRHZtejmOWR7qf6SFo= =xOnl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 02 December 2006 03:50, John Andersen wrote:
On Friday 01 December 2006 23:12, Stephan Binner wrote:
On Saturday 02 December 2006 06:01, John Andersen wrote:
So which of kde packages insists on installing SA.
kdepim3 recommends now, not requires, Spamassassin.
Bye, Steve
The software updater (zmd) pops up a message saying it is going to install spamassassin. Your only choice is Ok or Cancel. If you select OK, it totally hozes your spamassassin with a back level version.
If you click Cancel, it cancels ALL updates. GRRRRRR!
[...] ============= Yep, John, they still haven't fixed that yet! I submitted a bug report on that months ago, yet they still don't seem to be able to comprehend that "Cancel" should only mean that one file or update problem, not the entire update?!? Is it so hard to understand that cancel should NOT abort the entire update process?!? Maybe it's just too simple a request while they're trying to figure out how to make Mono into a new less workable Yast! I agree... GRRRR! bye, Lee -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
I have the opensuse repository for kde3 in my list of updates.
Today it has 77 updates, but in the process it wants to install spamassassin 3.1.3, which is back level by several releases. I run SA 3.1.7 and install from CPAN, and I don't want to go back to 3.1.3.
Try http://repos.opensuse.org/home:/wrosenauer/[your_suse_ver]/, it has updated spamassassin rpm packages -- Adi Pircalabu -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 05 December 2006 13:45, Adi Pircalabu wrote:
John Andersen wrote:
I have the opensuse repository for kde3 in my list of updates.
Today it has 77 updates, but in the process it wants to install spamassassin 3.1.3, which is back level by several releases. I run SA 3.1.7 and install from CPAN, and I don't want to go back to 3.1.3.
Try http://repos.opensuse.org/home:/wrosenauer/[your_suse_ver]/, it has updated spamassassin rpm packages
Well Its not that I don't appreciate that, but historically suse has been extreemly late getting out updates to very time sensitive packages such as SpamAssassin. These packages are a month old. Cpan at most 24 hours old. The real problem is a "recommended" package is treated like a dependency by the Software Updater. A generic question: Why would it be so hard for a software updater package to check for the existance of packages installed by other means? -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
John Andersen wrote:
On Tuesday 05 December 2006 13:45, Adi Pircalabu wrote:
John Andersen wrote:
I have the opensuse repository for kde3 in my list of updates.
Today it has 77 updates, but in the process it wants to install spamassassin 3.1.3, which is back level by several releases. I run SA 3.1.7 and install from CPAN, and I don't want to go back to 3.1.3. Try http://repos.opensuse.org/home:/wrosenauer/[your_suse_ver]/, it has updated spamassassin rpm packages
Well Its not that I don't appreciate that, but historically suse has been extreemly late getting out updates to very time sensitive packages such as SpamAssassin. These packages are a month old.
Cpan at most 24 hours old.
1. What is important for you may not be that important for others 2. Newer does not always mean better/safer/faster. It rather means untested. For example: are you ready to offer tech support to companies for bleeding-edge software? Well, all you should do is remastering. from a technical standpoint. This usually is the most simple part. But is not enough. You, as an individual, are probably prepared to deal with newer versions of software (you are confortable to using CPAN). But how about your clients? Are you prepared to offer support on a contract basis using latest versions?
The real problem is a "recommended" package is treated like a dependency by the Software Updater.
A generic question: Why would it be so hard for a software updater package to check for the existance of packages installed by other means?
Why would you want this mix-up of package & source installed software? Especially, how can a vendor be able to offer support (a generic term for, let's say, software assurance) If a client requires a particular version of some software, so be it, you'll tailor the solution for them. But the stock version should always contain tested software. -- Adi Pircalabu -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2006-12-06 13:54, Adi Pircalabu wrote:
John Andersen wrote:
extreemly late getting out updates to very time sensitive packages such as SpamAssassin. These packages are a month old.
Cpan at most 24 hours old.
1. What is important for you may not be that important for others
Having the most recent virus definition files is not important?
2. Newer does not always mean better/safer/faster. It rather means untested.
Certainly not in the case of virus definition files.
A generic question: Why would it be so hard for a software updater package to check for the existance of packages installed by other means?
Why would you want this mix-up of package & source installed software? Especially, how can a vendor be able to offer support (a generic term for, let's say, software assurance) If a client requires a particular version of some software, so be it, you'll tailor the solution for them. But the stock version should always contain tested software.
I guess you don't care about your clients missing the occasional new virus that is only caught in the virus definition update that was released today. -- The best way to accelerate a computer running Windows is at 9.81 m/s² -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Darryl Gregorash wrote:
On 2006-12-06 13:54, Adi Pircalabu wrote:
John Andersen wrote:
extreemly late getting out updates to very time sensitive packages such as SpamAssassin. These packages are a month old.
Cpan at most 24 hours old.
1. What is important for you may not be that important for others
Having the most recent virus definition files is not important?
Any serious antivirus vendor must have a decent updating procedure for the most important part: virus definitions and scanning engines. They are the "core" of every AV solution and do not usually depend on a specific package version. I have not seen yet an AV software which forces me to update my entire installation on a daily basis, for every new virus signature update. I should be able to update the engines only.
2. Newer does not always mean better/safer/faster. It rather means untested.
Certainly not in the case of virus definition files.
A generic question: Why would it be so hard for a software updater package to check for the existance of packages installed by other means?
Why would you want this mix-up of package & source installed software? Especially, how can a vendor be able to offer support (a generic term for, let's say, software assurance) If a client requires a particular version of some software, so be it, you'll tailor the solution for them. But the stock version should always contain tested software.
I guess you don't care about your clients missing the occasional new virus that is only caught in the virus definition update that was released today.
If you're talking about SA here, there is always sa-update(1) to update the .cf files. -- Adi Pircalabu -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 06 December 2006 20:18, Darryl Gregorash wrote:
On 2006-12-06 13:54, Adi Pircalabu wrote:
John Andersen wrote:
extreemly late getting out updates to very time sensitive packages such as SpamAssassin. These packages are a month old.
Cpan at most 24 hours old.
1. What is important for you may not be that important for others
Having the most recent virus definition files is not important?
But SA is a spam flagging engine, not an AV system. I use SA and bogofilter for antispam. The AV work is done by Clam and that is updated on the hour every hour.
2. Newer does not always mean better/safer/faster. It rather means untested.
Certainly not in the case of virus definition files.
Spam != Virus
A generic question: Why would it be so hard for a software updater package to check for the existance of packages installed by other means?
Why would you want this mix-up of package & source installed software? Especially, how can a vendor be able to offer support (a generic term for, let's say, software assurance) If a client requires a particular version of some software, so be it, you'll tailor the solution for them. But the stock version should always contain tested software.
I guess you don't care about your clients missing the occasional new virus that is only caught in the virus definition update that was released today.
See above. I have yet to catch a virus. I once spent an afternoon running all the dangerous .exe files in my quarantine folder through WINE to see if I could infect the system. Alas, the infection rate was low :) I still blew away my test luser account with the ~/.wine directory! Cheers Pete -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
<snip> But SA is a spam flagging engine, not an AV system. Yeah, oops and thanks. I won't bother trying to sidestep that brain-f**t by suggesting up-to-date spam catchers are also essential, and to us in
On 2006-12-06 16:17, Pete Connolly wrote: the Linux world, maybe more essential than trapping a virus. :-) That still doesn't address John Anderson's original questions, which AFAIAC are important questions, and without meaning to offend, I find Adi's remarks to John spurious and purely argumentative. It is quite irrelevant if any person decides to mix rpm with non-rpm packages, and there should be a simple way to update the system database from within the package management system, ie. without having to resort to the commandline. However, to John I would quickly add that resolving this issue is probably going to be non-trivial. -- The best way to accelerate a computer running Windows is at 9.81 m/s² -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (8)
-
Adi Pircalabu -
BandiPat -
Carlos E. R. -
Darryl Gregorash -
Joe Morris (NTM) -
John Andersen -
Pete Connolly -
Stephan Binner