On Tue, 2005-05-10 at 08:20 -0500, Peter B Van Campen wrote:

On Tuesday 10 May 2005 08:00, SuSE Ground Zero wrote:

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http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23123

The only purpose of this site and their paper version is to stir up controversy. Most of their stories are full of "no truth" and "half truth" stories. If any of their stories are based on actual fact I would be surprised. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge

On Tuesday 10 May 2005 05:46 am, Gideon Hallett wrote:

On Tuesday 10 May 2005 14:26, Ken Schneider wrote:

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The only purpose of this site and their paper version is to stir up controversy. Most of their stories are full of "no truth" and "half truth" stories. If any of their stories are based on actual fact I would be surprised.

That's not fair. The Inq is a decent enough rag; and Mike Magee (who also founded the Register) is apparently an OK bloke.

What the Inquirer is not is the whole, complete, and unvarnished truth. It's a tabloid site, and includes speculation, rumour and "we heard $foo from $bar". It holds gossip; some of which is correct and some of which isn't.

cheers,

Gideon.

So then it would seem that Ken and Gideon agree 100% on the quality and believability of the rag in question.... Next !!..... -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

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What the Inquirer is not is the whole, complete, and unvarnished truth. It's a tabloid site, and includes speculation, rumour and "we heard $foo from $bar". It holds gossip; some of which is correct and some of which isn't.

One says that there is no factual basis to ANY of the INQ stories: the other says that, in common with the rest of the world's media, that some of it may not be "the whole, complete, and unvarnished truth". I don't think the latter creature exists ( and I know of no fossilised remains, either).

I don't see an equilvalence here. The first is merely silly, the second, a rational approach to what is offered on the INQ site.

Why on Earth are you guys arguing about a stupid news blurb site that is a 50/50 hit and miss, with controversy and speculation! SUSE 9.3 has already received many,many good reviews; I for one love it and it's feel. KDE is not leaving and GNOME will not rule the SUSE brand. They gave us choice as to which one we want. It's not really based on any false pretense arguments you guys are producing amongst one another. It's just says Mr. Seibt left Novell. Are we not human and not have family and functions to attend to? Are we not allowed to choose which direction we should go? Let's get over this thread and start helping people with their Linux problems. JD

On Wednesday 11 May 2005 16:25, Ben Rosenberg wrote:

If I had a dollar for every post that I read about SUSE going under when the Oakland office had massive layoffs.. well.. I'd be a friggin millionaire right now... or at least I could be that Dual G5 w/ a 30 inch monitor. :)

For the love pete.. this is just silly. Just use the damn product if you enjoy it and if Novell fucks it up.. then go find something better. It's just how it is. SUSE has changed managers and management several times since I been using it (circa 1997) and it's still around..

Hi Ben, Yeah, that's me LovePete. Or were you refering to the first Pope? I agree, these trolls get way too much attention. Kill this thread, or go to the OT list. PeterB ........... aka The LovePete

On 5/10/05, Ken Schneider and others who read email wrote

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http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23123

As one of its sauces told it: "Novell Was it a BBQ,Tomato,Curry ? sauce lol

Aha .. so Seibt did not really left ... it is just a jurnalistic joke. Get real ... So am I am a SuSE user from 5.3 version, for whom might it concern yes I hate Novell also Microsoft but I learned that I have to live with it. Lately Novell smashed everything about SuSE QA it is a fact, demonstrated by a every time lower quality 9.0 was best also 9.1 but 9.2 and 9.3 are jokes about the real linux experience. It is buying Imunix, why ? It was already present in Linux business ! Fred A. Miller wrote:

On Tuesday 10 May 2005 9:26 am, Ken Schneider wrote:

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On Tue, 2005-05-10 at 08:20 -0500, Peter B Van Campen wrote:

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On Tuesday 10 May 2005 08:00, SuSE Ground Zero wrote:

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http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23123

The only purpose of this site and their paper version is to stir up controversy. Most of their stories are full of "no truth" and "half truth" stories. If any of their stories are based on actual fact I would be surprised.

QUITE right, Ken!! I reviewed some of their "old junk," and it's ALL the same slime ball drivel. ANYONE who gives them any credibility must be a total moron!

Fred

Agreed, base on experience with SuSE since 5.0. The best SuSE 6.4, 7.2, 9.0, and of run. And this is on purpose ( in my opinion ). I start to understand why Munchen Germany is dropping SuSE and going for Debian.

Jul

Why? Love to know what people do with their Linux that every time a new version comes out they have to say it's rubbish?! I've been in IT for 6 years, back then all our systems ran Debian and then after 2 years Red Hat then after a year SuSE, have to say that SuSE is by far the most polished and complete distro, always had a ballache getting Debian and RH to work and experience few problems with SuSE. Been running Suse on my desktop since 6.4 and other than the standard linux problems of getting videos to work it's never let me down. Just building a platform on 20 DL380 servers on SES9 because of the endless config tweaks we had to do using RH-AS4 SuSE was the only viable platorm. I think with the Novel Partnership there will be big things ahead for SuSE. Matthew

On Wed, 11 May 2005 09:53:43 +0300 SuSE Ground Zero wrote:

Aha .. so Seibt did not really left ... it is just a jurnalistic joke. Get real ...

So am I am a SuSE user from 5.3 version,

And you still top post. lol Terence

On Wednesday 11 May 2005 01:53, SuSE Ground Zero wrote:

So am I am a SuSE user from 5.3 version, for whom might it concern yes I hate Novell also Microsoft but I learned that I have to live with it. Lately Novell smashed everything about SuSE QA it is a fact, demonstrated by a every time lower quality 9.0 was best also 9.1 but 9.2 and 9.3 are jokes about the real linux experience.

Balderdash! That's absolute drivel and rubbish. I too have been using SUSE since 5.3, and I say 9.3 is by far the best ever (and it's getting rave reviews, even from eWeek!). Talk to some of the beta testers before you say QA is "smashed". -- ====================================================== Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682) ====================================================== "Greater coherence cannot be achieved. Not even the Netherlanders have managed this." -Anton Webern ======================================================

On Thursday 12 May 2005 12:22, Glenn Holmer wrote:

On Wednesday 11 May 2005 01:53, SuSE Ground Zero wrote:

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So am I am a SuSE user from 5.3 version, for whom might it concern yes I hate Novell also Microsoft but I learned that I have to live with it. Lately Novell smashed everything about SuSE QA it is a fact, demonstrated by a every time lower quality 9.0 was best also 9.1 but 9.2 and 9.3 are jokes about the real linux experience.

Balderdash! That's absolute drivel and rubbish. I too have been using SUSE since 5.3, and I say 9.3 is by far the best ever (and it's getting rave reviews, even from eWeek!). Talk to some of the beta testers before you say QA is "smashed".

Hate to do a "me too" but I've bought every SUSE since 6.1. 9.3 is without any doubt the best yet. I've also played around with some other distros recently, mostly a couple of Slackwares (10.1 and minislack) and a couple of the debian/knoppix clones (Mepis, Kanotix) and 9.3 is far superior to any of them. I posted this in frustration at the series of " Novell is ruining SUSE" rants which seem to be based largely on a mix of paranoia and taking seriously some really idiotic reviews and articles, notably those from The Inquirer. I just wish it would stop. Mike

On Tuesday, May 10, 2005 09:00 am, SuSE Ground Zero wrote:

Predictable ... now I guess we gonna see some damage control and smoke screens from Novell.

FWIW, I did technology and media mergers and acquisitions for thirteen years, and these sorts of management changes are quite common, and although painful and sometimes disruptive in the short-term, are often beneficial in the mid-to-long-term. Managers who thrive in an entrepreneurial atmosphere frequently do not do well post-acquisition. They may perceive their authority as having been reduced (which is often true) and they may also perceive an increase in bureaucracy. The acquiring company may have a different corporate culture than the acquired company, which can lead to culture clashes. Companies that do post-acquisition integrations really well (Cisco comes to mind) have full-time teams to manage every detail, to make the acquired company's employees feel a part of the team--and to weed out early on those in the acquired company who won't fit in the new regime. Although there are always many sides to every story, my observation is that Novell gave the SuSE execs a lot of free rein (and budget) this past year to integrate the best of Novell with SuSE. The results have been disappointing, so now Novell is taking a more hands-on approach. I have a personal example where SuSE execs disappointed me: We build SLES9 servers for customers to replace NT4 and Windows 2000 servers. These SLES9 servers act essentially as competitors for, or replacements for Microsoft Small Business Server servers. We were very excited to see Novell release their own SBS offering based on SLES9 and Novell directory services. What a terrific best-of-breed combination. Novell offered special upgrade pricing for Microsoft SBS users, Novell users, etc., but no special upgrade pricing for any SLES9 users. When I asked Novell sales about this, I was told that no SLES9 -> Novell SBS upgrade path was possible, because the two products' licensing models were different. SLES9 has no limit on client connections whereas the Novell SBS product does. So what? No trade-in, no nothing. The only option to avoid having unused licenses is to wait out the expiration of an existing SLES9 maintenance agreement, and then buy the Novell SBS product. Oh, and forget about migrating existing user accounts or other settings. I was told you can only do a fresh install of the Novell SBS product and there is no way to import user account settings from an existing SLES9 installation. So, not only did Novell punish existing small business users with higher prices for being early adopters of vanilla SLES9, but they did nothing to help existing SLES9 users migrate to a new, enhanced product bundle. Separately, this list has a number of comments from long time SuSE users who believe that the legendary SuSE QA controls have somehow slipped recently. All this while the SuSE execs were apparently running the show. So, I am welcoming these executive changes. I respect the substantial achievements these now-departed executives made in taking SuSE to the level it has reached. But to take SuSE Linux to the next level, as part of a larger entity, it seems to me that new faces are needed. If you long for the SuSE of old, we cannot turn back the clocks. I hope that the new executives in charge at Novell/SuSE will build on the best that SuSE has to offer, integrate that with the best that Novell has to offer, and market it in a customer-friendly way. And I think it only fair that we give them a shot at doing so. With best regards to all, Mark -- _________________________________________________________ A Message From... L. Mark Stone Reliable Networks of Maine, LLC "We manage your network so you can manage your business." 477 Congress Street Portland, ME 04101 Tel: (207) 772-5678 Web: http://www.rnome.com

On Tuesday, May 10, 2005 09:54 am, Ben Higginbottom wrote:

On 5/10/05, SuSE Ground Zero wrote:

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Predictable ... now I guess we gonna see some damage control and smoke screens from Novell. SuSE brand was mortified from 9.2 version allready, now it is just dying faster.

Why are you and Preston never seen together? :-) Shhhh! You'll give away the secret! ;-)

Seibert seemed to have been parachuted into the role as boss of Suse in order to ease the Novell buyout. Thats happened, the Suse business unit is seems to be generating a tidy sum for Novell. Looks like he's done a pretty good job and decided to move on, more than likely back to IBM with a comfortable VP role in the Linux division.

Seibert has also been with Suse for ~ 2 1/2 years which is a pretty good run for someone at that level.

No disagreement in principle from me. I just expected more "1+1=3" offerings from Novell/SuSE in the past year. And the one "1+1=3" offering I tried to use I found would work only for new, not existing clients. I think they could have done a better job there. Plus, SLES9 unit sales were not up as much as I think anyone expected/hoped, given the backing of Novell's sales force, IBM's support, and all the free publicity from the acquisition. -- _________________________________________________________ A Message From... L. Mark Stone Reliable Networks of Maine, LLC "We manage your network so you can manage your business." 477 Congress Street Portland, ME 04101 Tel: (207) 772-5678 Web: http://www.rnome.com

On Tuesday 10 May 2005 10:23, SuSE Ground Zero wrote:

Here comes the 1st smoke screen:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news/index_mail.shtml?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/0 5-10-2005/0003592022&EDATE=

um, ah, Ground Zero, The provided link doesn't say anything about Sebit leaving, or for that matter about any personell changes at SUSE. SUSE is a "Novell Business" and is in Germany; Sebit was a Novell execuitive and no longer a part of SUSE. Can we just stop FUD'ing, please? PeterB

On Tue, 10 May 2005 18:23:49 +0300 SuSE Ground Zero wrote:

Here comes the 1st smoke screen:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news/index_mail.shtml?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/05-10-2005/0003592022&EDATE=

L. Mark Stone wrote:

On Tuesday, May 10, 2005 09:00 am, SuSE Ground Zero wrote:

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Predictable ... now I guess we gonna see some damage control and smoke screens from Novell.

Please, pretty please, don't top post on this list. Thank you. Terence

On Wednesday 11 May 2005 01:53, Terry Eck wrote:

Mike wrote:

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On Tuesday 10 May 2005 08:38, Basil Chupin wrote:

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..is the heading of an article at

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23123

Hmmm. I wonder if this is what the ex-Ximian GNOMErs were cheering mysteriously about this morning? Bye-bye KDE?

If this is true (about KDE) then Bye-bye SuSE!

-- SuSE Linux 9.2 (i586) ---- 2.6.8-24.14-default --- Tue 05/10/05 19:50 7:50pm up 3 days 2:56, 3 users, load average: 0.40, 0.35, 0.29

Like wise no KDE NO Suse ! -- If Bill Gates had gotten LAID at High School do YOU think there would be a Microsoft ? Of course NOT ! You gotta spend a lot of time at your school Locker stuffing underware up your ass to think , I am going to take on the worlds Computer Industry -------:heard on Cyber Radio.:-------

Fergus Wilde wrote: [snip]

The article says nothing at all about KDE or Gnome, what are we talking about here?

Oh who knows. Maybe some chitchat on IRC or something. People come and go from IT companies all the time, just as they do in any other industry. Good luck to the guy. The same site is reporting that Michael Dell's private investment firm has just pumped 100 million dollars into Red Hat, which is arguably more newsworthy. :) Fish

On Wednesday 11 May 2005 01:02, Mike wrote:

Hmmm. I wonder if this is what the ex-Ximian GNOMErs were cheering mysteriously about this morning? Bye-bye KDE?

Where was this cheering taking place? KDE isn't likely to disappear anytime soon. It's far too popular in Europe, where so far the main linux business is