Hello Des, thank you, so it seems I'll have to suggest to buy VMWare for each laptop. To be sincere at first glance this would be replied from my short-seeing management as a new expense and a new need for resources (i.e. RAM). A bit of a problem as our laptop have generally only 64 MB. Anyway as you already said, let's be hopeful for the future. Many thanks and what about the Athlon 850 you mentioned? Which motherboard do you suggest for such a powerful machine? Ciao, Stefano Des Aubery wrote:

Hi Stefan,

I have also found the Office Suites to be a little "young" when compared to their Winxx counterparts.

To solve this, I am running win98 as a virtual machine using VMware. This solves my short-term compatability problem. Out of interest - many winxx applications run better in VMware than directly on virgin hardware - interesting!!!

I will continue to convert applications directly to Linux equivalents, as they reach maturity. Even packages like ApplixWare have a number of inconsistencies, and often remind me of winxx-based software of some 6 years ago.

In the long-term, I trust that I will no longer run any winxx based programs - and will not be upgrading my current suites.

So - the now - and hopeful then...

Best regards,

Des Aubery... (adTherm Technologies, East London, E.Cape, South Africa)

Stefano Papini wrote:

...

I'm already begging your pardon for generic question, BUT I've in my mind a small project to push linux in the "office side" of my company.

That's feasible iff on our laptops can run something like an office suite (koffice, abisuite, siag, wpo2000) able to manage complex and heavy doc. (even heavvier than reasonable because generated by crappy word...) containing tables, images, graphs, etc..

This is an absolute pre-requisite.

Up to know I had not so good experiences with staroffice 5.x and abisuite as they still are immature products, so I even tried to switch to a wine based solution, but I still didn't get wine working with word, excel and ppt. Should any know tricks on wine..., in particular on wine.conf tricks (dll loading order, etc).

Any suggestion from this great list is much more than welcome.

cheers,

Stefano

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I hav to say i am impress with star office.... Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq -- Rolando Roman icq=3783184 -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

I have been using ApplixWare Office for quite some time now. It's not the *greatest* interface, but it's certainly useable, and has most of the features most people use. It will read and write .PPT, .XLS and .DOC files upto and including MS Office 2000. It's about $90US for the package, but also includes a DB front end and custom app development tool. - Herman On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Derek Fountain wrote: ->>I think you're onto a looser here. The best office suite for ->>Linux is probably WPO2000 from Corel, but it's a bit wobbly ->>and requires maintenance. It's OK for me, because I'm a bit ->>of a hacker, but my girlfriend, despite really wanting to ->>dump Windows, has given up on it. Shame. ->> ->>Vmware is not a very good solution for your needs. A laptop ->>with 64MB of RAM will make a lousy platform for Vmware, and, ->>as you say, it just means extra expense which doesn't, at ->>the end of the day, get you off Windows. Unless Applixware ->>or Staroffice will suit your needs, I don't think there's a ->>Linux solution just yet. ->> ->>My experience says that Linux should only be introduced as a ->>solution when it is genuinely better than the alternative, ->>otherwise you just do more harm than good. ->> ->>> thank you, so it seems I'll have to suggest to buy VMWare for each ->>> laptop. ->>> To be sincere at first glance this would be replied from my short-seeing ->>> management as a new expense and a new need for resources (i.e. RAM). A ->>> bit of a problem as our laptop have generally only 64 MB. ->> ->>-- ->>To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com ->>For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com ->>Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq ->> -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

Stefano, Another alternative to VMWare to have a look at is Win4Lin - It is far less resource hungry and applications run considerably faster than VMWare. Also considerably cheaper to buy. Drawbacks - Will only run Win95/98 OS's. No sound. I have had no problems running MS Office on it. - Prefer StarOffice but it won't handle some complex docs and spreadsheets I exchange with clients. htttp://www.trelos.com Regards Graham Smith --------------------------------- On 02-Aug-2000 Stefano Papini wrote:

Hello Des, thank you, so it seems I'll have to suggest to buy VMWare for each laptop. To be sincere at first glance this would be replied from my short-seeing management as a new expense and a new need for resources (i.e. RAM). A bit of a problem as our laptop have generally only 64 MB.

Anyway as you already said, let's be hopeful for the future.

Many thanks and what about the Athlon 850 you mentioned? Which motherboard do you suggest for such a powerful machine?

Ciao,

Stefano

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http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/FredMoody/moody.html

Come on come on now, take it out side :) -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

Isn't it kind of odd that they didn't present any of the bugs in the OS? If linux is the worst, how come tons of servers use it on the net? Netcraft did a survey on it some time ago.. Weaknesses in linux: -The media hates it. -M$ peons are jelous. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Shrimpton" To: "SuSE" Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 12:31 PM Subject: [SLE] M$ FUD

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/FredMoody/moody.html

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Kinda looks like the pot calling the kettle black to me... and no, I do not troll... I could take or leave M$ software. Though I do have to support sevral W2k servers.... I am by habit and perferance a Linux (SuSE) user, and steer my customers that way. -- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Shrimpton" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 6:40 PM Subject: RE: [SLE] M$ FUD - All about the Author

Hi,

I have done my research on the author of the article..

http://www.pjprimer.com/moody.html

Cheers

Phil

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Hi all, BTW wouln't it be possible to arrange a choral mail to be sent to abcnews guys and eventually to other (more serious) magazines to point out the fact? I think that the sentences there contained are quite heavy and beyond the freedom of anybody to express its own opinions. Phil and SJ I'm on your side, Kirk if I were you I'd take it easier. Ciao, Stefano James Harr wrote:

Isn't it kind of odd that they didn't present any of the bugs in the OS?

If linux is the worst, how come tons of servers use it on the net? Netcraft did a survey on it some time ago..

Weaknesses in linux: -The media hates it. -M$ peons are jelous.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Shrimpton" To: "SuSE" Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 12:31 PM Subject: [SLE] M$ FUD

...

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/FredMoody/moody.html

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Re the article attacking Linux as unreliable and buggy: the article cites BugTrak as the source. Rather than issuing ad hominem attacks on the author of the article, I think it would be more productive if someone could actually look at the BugTrak data and see what it says and what might be wrong with it. Is BugTrak an unbiased source? I really don't know.

Paul Abrahams

IMHO BugTrak is a realiable source. It could be biased either way though. It could post more Linux bugs to it's site for the sole purpose of making Linux look bad. Or it could post more Linux bugs to it's site, because it likes Linux and wants Linux admins to be more informed then Windows Admins. It could be biased either way. IMHO I have seen anything to indact that it could be. If you have a bug that affects security and send it to them, they will post it, regardless of the OS (with expections, they probably won't post any DOS 2.1, MVS info, etc). BugTrak IIRC only release reports dealing with security. If there is a bug in a web browser (like html not rendering properly) and can't been used in a malice way, they don't report it. They only post if the bug can (or could) be exploited in some way. First it only deals with security holes or bugs that can be used in a exploitive type of way. Not overall bugs in the system, just bugs (or "feartures") that effect security. Second, it is true, BugTrak does have more listing for all Linux Distro's than for MicrosoftsWindows2000/NT server. This is a fact, this is a statistic. Statistics can be leading to push someones agurement in one direction or another %14 of all people know that :) It just lists more Linux bugs in BugTrak then Microsoft, what does this mean? Not a whole lot. I could use this statistic to say "Linux finds bugs quicker due to it's open source nature, look at BugTrak for example, Linux Distro's have found and fixed more problems in the past year then Microsoft." You can't base an entire argument (or article) off one little fact or statistic that can be misleading or leading. Again you can use a statistic (especailly this one) to force your view and make it seem like fact. Another Example: "The Linux group activally seeks out and fixes bugs dealing with security issuses. Security is Linux's number 1 concern, if you just look at BugTrak, the Linux group has sought out and found more bugs in there software then the multi-billion dollar Microsoft. What does this say about the state of commerical software? Lets going into this in detail...." Also the author _could_ be a troll. I am not saying he is a troll, but there is that possiablity. You have to ask why would an author for zdnet (or whoever, I forgot) want to troll? Think about it, he posts something he knows Linux geeks will get mad at, they get mad and post it to SuSE mailing list or slashdot. The site gets thousands of hits for pissed off Linux users. You know what, with each of those hits zdnet (or whoever) gets to push up 3-5 banner ads. Would seem like an easy way to make money. You don't have to check facts, no research, crank out a shotty article in 15 minutes later you are telling possiable adversting customers "Yea we get over 200,000 hits per day on this page, if you want your ad up there, you got to fork out some major cash" I am not saying they are doing this, but could this work? Most companies bottom line is the almightly dollar and truth comes second (if at all). omething to think about or am I just rambling? I also do think there should be a seperate list for this type of stuff. When someone has a problem getting there hard drive back and going they don't want to fumble though 60 messages of "stuff that isn't realtive (aka crap)" J(ust)MHO Jack -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

Victor wrote:

How much software is included on a standard install of Linux compared with a standard install of NT?

This is surely the point. If someone produced a car that consisted of just one wheel and nothing else it would be completely safe. If microsoft include only a limited subset of software compared to linux, (any distro), then it will be probably be more secure but so what? Andy -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

Hi again Stefan, After your discussions, I have been experimenting with Star Office 5.1. I must say, I am rather impressed. I have not found any stability problems, so far. I think that a lot has to do with the version of Java which one uses. I have recently had the most sucess with the Java Runtime 1.1.7 environment. I had problems with JRE 1.1.8 running some other software, and have tended to stick with JRE 1.1.7 - it seems the most stable - at least for me. Best regards, Des Aubery... (adTherm Technologies, East London, E.Cape, South Africa) Des Aubery wrote:

Hi Stefan,

I have also found the Office Suites to be a little "young" when compared to their Winxx counterparts.

To solve this, I am running win98 as a virtual machine using VMware. This solves my short-term compatability problem. Out of interest - many winxx applications run better in VMware than directly on virgin hardware - interesting!!!

I will continue to convert applications directly to Linux equivalents, as they reach maturity. Even packages like ApplixWare have a number of inconsistencies, and often remind me of winxx-based software of some 6 years ago.

In the long-term, I trust that I will no longer run any winxx based programs - and will not be upgrading my current suites.

So - the now - and hopeful then...

Best regards,

Des Aubery... (adTherm Technologies, East London, E.Cape, South Africa)

Stefano Papini wrote:

...

I'm already begging your pardon for generic question, BUT I've in my mind a small project to push linux in the "office side" of my company.

That's feasible iff on our laptops can run something like an office suite (koffice, abisuite, siag, wpo2000) able to manage complex and heavy doc. (even heavvier than reasonable because generated by crappy word...) containing tables, images, graphs, etc..

This is an absolute pre-requisite.

Up to know I had not so good experiences with staroffice 5.x and abisuite as they still are immature products, so I even tried to switch to a wine based solution, but I still didn't get wine working with word, excel and ppt. Should any know tricks on wine..., in particular on wine.conf tricks (dll loading order, etc).

Any suggestion from this great list is much more than welcome.

cheers,

Stefano

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Hi Patrick, When I mentioned that many winxx apps run better in VMware than directly on virgin hardware, I was referring to program compatibility. Some of the programs had a number of bugs when running on a Toshiba, which just disappeared in VMware... I am running on a 850MHz AMD Athlon - 750Mb ram system, so the VMware speed is more than acceptable. VMware also seems to grab most of the processor time (+93%) and so runs well. With this size of memory, Win98 will not even run on the virgin hardware - it seems it can only address 256Mb of ram!!! Even in this environment, win98 always takes its time to load - I guess that that is Windoze... Out of interest, I have also set up another experimental work-station in VMware - running SuSE 6.4 - for purely experimental purposes. This system runs well... By the way, what system are you running? Best regards, Des Aubery... (adTherm Technologies, East London, E.Cape, South Africa) Patrick wrote:

At 13:09 2/08/00 +0200, Des Aubery wrote:

...

Out of interest - many winxx applications run better in VMware than directly on virgin hardware - interesting!!!

I'm a bit astonnished to what you're saying about the speed under VMware. I tried it once (only, indeed) and was really discouraged by the horribly long time to start the OS (win98). Are there some requirements to get that speed improvement?

Patrick

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