[SLE] Go SUSE - Nice note in LinuxPlanet
Saw this article on Linux Planet, mentioning how Windows Workstation 2003 had less downtime than most Linux servers. The reason given was not one of software, rather lack of knowledge by the admins when something did happen. http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/6248/1/ Of note, SUSE was well-regarded. However, it doesn't appear to be widespread. (Where are those sales guys? None have contacted me yet.) "...while SUSE Linux from Novell had the best performance, even topping some of the big Unixes. But it's used so little as to be statistically irrelevant, said DiDio." -- k -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Thursday 15 June 2006 9:49 am, Kai Ponte wrote:
Saw this article on Linux Planet, mentioning how Windows Workstation 2003 had less downtime than most Linux servers. The reason given was not one of software, rather lack of knowledge by the admins when something did happen.
http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/6248/1/
Of note, SUSE was well-regarded. However, it doesn't appear to be widespread. (Where are those sales guys? None have contacted me yet.)
"...while SUSE Linux from Novell had the best performance, even topping some of the big Unixes. But it's used so little as to be statistically irrelevant, said DiDio."
k
This is suse-ot related. Please send it there. You even quote that DiDio schill and dare to put it on this list? Please, please, please send it to suse-ot where this is accepted. Thanks, Stan -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Thursday 15 June 2006 12:02 pm, S Glasoe wrote:
This is suse-ot related. Please send it there. You even quote that DiDio schill and dare to put it on this list? Please, please, please send it to suse-ot where this is accepted.
Please, please, please lighten up. *************************************** Powered by Mepis Linux 3.4-3 KDE 3.5.2 KMail 1.8.3 This is a Microsoft-free computer Bryan S. Tyson bryantyson@earthlink.net *************************************** -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
tor, 15,.06.2006 kl. 13.30 -0400, skrev Bryan S. Tyson:
On Thursday 15 June 2006 12:02 pm, S Glasoe wrote:
This is suse-ot related. Please send it there. You even quote that DiDio schill and dare to put it on this list? Please, please, please send it to suse-ot where this is accepted.
Please, please, please lighten up.
*************************************** Powered by Mepis Linux 3.4-3 KDE 3.5.2 KMail 1.8.3 This is a Microsoft-free computer
Bryan S. Tyson bryantyson@earthlink.net ***************************************
No he shouldn't. This list is getting bogged down with insane amounts of OT posts. Some people even have the nerve to put OT in the topic, trying to justify posting OT posts, when we have a perfectly good OT mailing-list. I remember someone being told to post in suse-ot. The moron managed to reply: No, he wouldn't cause less people would read it then...... Bjørn Lie -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Bjørn Lie wrote:
No he shouldn't. This list is getting bogged down with insane amounts of OT posts. Some people even have the nerve to put OT in the topic, trying to justify posting OT posts, when we have a perfectly good OT mailing-list.
I'm one of those people, and personally I'm not trying to justify anything. I think it's a decent way of indicating that a posting isn't exactly on-topic, yet also does not really belong on suse-ot. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Per Jessen wrote:
Bjørn Lie wrote:
No he shouldn't. This list is getting bogged down with insane amounts of OT posts. Some people even have the nerve to put OT in the topic, trying to justify posting OT posts, when we have a perfectly good OT mailing-list.
I'm one of those people, and personally I'm not trying to justify anything. I think it's a decent way of indicating that a posting isn't exactly on-topic, yet also does not really belong on suse-ot.
/Per Jessen, Zürich
But if it does not 'belong' on the OT list, where does it belong? The OT list is an excellent catch-all for non-SLE, etc., issues J -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
John wrote:
But if it does not 'belong' on the OT list, where does it belong? The OT list is an excellent catch-all for non-SLE, etc., issues
Somehow I doubt that. Surely nothing can be on-topic on a off-topic list :-) Regardless, as per Ken Schneider my own posting/question was entirely on-topic here. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
tor, 15,.06.2006 kl. 20.44 +0200, skrev Per Jessen:
Bjørn Lie wrote:
No he shouldn't. This list is getting bogged down with insane amounts of OT posts. Some people even have the nerve to put OT in the topic, trying to justify posting OT posts, when we have a perfectly good OT mailing-list.
I'm one of those people, and personally I'm not trying to justify anything. I think it's a decent way of indicating that a posting isn't exactly on-topic, yet also does not really belong on suse-ot.
/Per Jessen, Zürich
This is a quote from this lists faq (send a empty mail to suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com ) Q17. I was being polite and prefixed the subject of my off-topic posting with '[OT]'. After posting it I received a nasty message about the thread being blocked and that if I persist in trying to start off-topic threads I'll be unsubscribed and blocked from resubscribing. What's up with that? A17. Sorry, we really have no choice. We've asked nicely over the years for people to take their off-topic threads elsewhere in the interest of keeping the messages per day on SLE under 200 and, well, that just didn't work. We now have a list, suse-ot, that's devoted solely to off-topic discussions. That's right, all off-topic all the time. Email suse-ot-subscribe@suse.com to subscribe. Bjørn Lie -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
You can argue policy back and forth until the list is sick. Policy is for people who like to debate. The fact remains that policy _never_ works because people _disagree_. Not only that, but people use it as a way to "get back" at someone they dislike. God knows here in the US, we have some great ones -- "School Prayer", "Flag Burning," etc... that people want to legislate to death. The whole reason for such alleged "policy" -- the student, the teacher, the citizen, the soldier, etc... -- actually get _lost_ in that debate. And then you just have a lot politicans, lawyers and media people telling us what we want -- without bothering to ask those people they say they speak for. ;-> Now I try to take stuff to OT, or I at least try to answer a Linux question in there and move the OT to a "P.S." or something. But I flounder and response on-list all-the-time. It happens. I'm sure I'm not a good example of "the best policy" either. I fully admit that, and that's why I often stop posting on-list for awhile and just help people off-list. Wwe can individually decide to respond and join the 5-6 people who respond when something is OT, or we can ignore it, or we can drop a blurb that we're answering it on the OT list or just answer it on the OT without a blurb. In any case, the more noise about it here doesn't do anything. Meta-discussions tend to be self-perpetuating and tangent well away from the original course. That also is a given. But when all else fails, Golden Rule is the best individual policy. Think of how you might want to be treated if you "honestly screwed up" when you respond (or decide not to) to someone, regardless of what you think the "intent" of the original person is. I personally _never_ argue policy, but I try to follow the general views of the list. Unfortunately, some people just don't care what your intentions are, and trying to please everyone often _fails_ miserably. So some things are better let go instead of being argued about on the list. Especially things like policy, because it's often a self-perpetuating meta-discussion in itself. One I just hypocritically added to myself just now. ;-> But I promise this will be my only post on (yeah right!). -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Bjørn Lie wrote:
This is a quote from this lists faq (send a empty mail to suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com )
Hi Bjørn, just FYI, I appreciate you volunteering the FAQ, but I never asked any question about the OTness of my posting, I just stated my opinion. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 20:44 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Bjørn Lie wrote:
No he shouldn't. This list is getting bogged down with insane amounts of OT posts. Some people even have the nerve to put OT in the topic, trying to justify posting OT posts, when we have a perfectly good OT mailing-list.
I'm one of those people, and personally I'm not trying to justify anything. I think it's a decent way of indicating that a posting isn't exactly on-topic, yet also does not really belong on suse-ot.
Wrong! If the post does not ask for help or offer a solution it belongs on the OT list. As other people have stated that is what it was created for. It's time to get this list back to what it was intended for, helping people that are having problems with there SUSE installation. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Thursday 15 June 2006 07:09 pm, Ken Schneider wrote:
Wrong! If the post does not ask for help or offer a solution it belongs on the OT list. As other people have stated that is what it was created for. It's time to get this list back to what it was intended for, helping people that are having problems with there SUSE installation.
Strange, a single post about Linux Planet and SUSE brings indignation while countless posts on the World Cup were just fine. Bryan *************************************** Powered by Mepis Linux 3.4-3 KDE 3.5.2 KMail 1.8.3 This is a Microsoft-free computer Bryan S. Tyson bryantyson@earthlink.net *************************************** -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 21:00 -0400, Bryan S. Tyson wrote:
On Thursday 15 June 2006 07:09 pm, Ken Schneider wrote:
Wrong! If the post does not ask for help or offer a solution it belongs on the OT list. As other people have stated that is what it was created for. It's time to get this list back to what it was intended for, helping people that are having problems with there SUSE installation.
Strange, a single post about Linux Planet and SUSE brings indignation while countless posts on the World Cup were just fine.
Well you missed the point as well. The point was about putting [OT] in the subject and expecting it to be OK to post here. It's not. And yes the world cup stuff should have been on the OT list as well. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Thursday 15 June 2006 21:00, Bryan S. Tyson wrote:
On Thursday 15 June 2006 07:09 pm, Ken Schneider wrote:
Wrong! If the post does not ask for help or offer a solution it belongs on the OT list. As other people have stated that is what it was created for. It's time to get this list back to what it was intended for, helping people that are having problems with there SUSE installation.
Strange, a single post about Linux Planet and SUSE brings indignation while countless posts on the World Cup were just fine.
I'd like to know where the official constitution of suse-linux-e can be found where it states only asking for help or offering solutions are on topic, becasue I've been looking: I sent an email to suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com and received a reply from suse-linux-e-help@suse.com. I skimmed it rather quickly, but didn't see anything specific about what discussion is on topic or off topic -- just a mention of some common questions that don't need to be asked for the millionth time and that off topic posts go on another list. I didn't see anything at the archives on lists.suse.com about the subject of the list other than "SuSE Linux english discussion". At Novell, the mailing list sign-up form http://www.suse.com/en/private/support/online_help/mailinglists/ says only "Discussions about SUSE LINUX (english)." And, no, I don't have the initial sign-on message when I joined some 3-odd years ago. (While I have 1300 posts saved from the list, half of this discussion thread already made it to the Trash before I noticed it.) I vaguely recall a warning about it being a high-volume, unmoderated list of suse Linux and to keep advocacy and flames to yourself (or another list somewhere). I guess the memory starts to go at 40. If the parameters of the list are not obvious to someone who is looking for it then perhaps we need suse-linux-help-* lists to help Ken Schneider from getting his shorts in a knot over news and informational posts that discuss Suse. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On 16/06/06, Ken Jennings
I'd like to know where the official constitution of suse-linux-e can be found where it states only asking for help or offering solutions are on topic, becasue I've been looking:
I sent an email to suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com and received a reply from suse-linux-e-help@suse.com. I skimmed it rather quickly, but didn't see anything specific about what discussion is on topic or off topic -- just a mention of some common questions that don't need to be asked for the millionth time and that off topic posts go on another list.
I didn't see anything at the archives on lists.suse.com about the subject of the list other than "SuSE Linux english discussion".
At Novell, the mailing list sign-up form http://www.suse.com/en/private/support/online_help/mailinglists/ says only "Discussions about SUSE LINUX (english)."
And, no, I don't have the initial sign-on message when I joined some 3-odd years ago. (While I have 1300 posts saved from the list, half of this discussion thread already made it to the Trash before I noticed it.) I vaguely recall a warning about it being a high-volume, unmoderated list of suse Linux and to keep advocacy and flames to yourself (or another list somewhere). I guess the memory starts to go at 40.
If the parameters of the list are not obvious to someone who is looking for it then perhaps we need suse-linux-help-* lists to help Ken Schneider from getting his shorts in a knot over news and informational posts that discuss Suse.
Personally, I prefer the OT approach in the subject line and having just one list. It's easy enough to set up a filter that filters out any subject starting with OT. This works very well with all the other mailing lists I subscribe to. Yes, sometimes people digress or forget to put OT at the subject start, it's soon spotted and they are told 'politely'...to start with. Anybody who persistently offended could easily be barred from the list for a month or so. However, I realise that, like another issue with the SuSE list ;-)))) this will never happen. It is purely personal opinion. -- ============================================== I am only human, please forgive me if I make a mistake it is not deliberate. ============================================== PLEASE DON'T drink and drive it's not clever, it's just stupid. Kevan Farmer Linux user #373362 Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Friday 16 June 2006 6:03 am, Ken Jennings wrote:
If the parameters of the list are not obvious to someone who is looking for it then perhaps we need suse-linux-help-* lists to help Ken Schneider from getting his shorts in a knot over news and informational posts that discuss Suse.
Those were my shorts that actually got in a bunch over that useless news post. Since the OP didn't even read the thing what was the point? That was a seriously flawed article to begin with and had zero technical merit even though SUSE was mentioned. The suse-ot was created because this list was getting seriously polluted with OT stuff and the discussions that followed and no one was getting any real SUSE Linux help. That's where that stuff belongs now. The decision was made to keep suse-linux-e's Topic as limited as possible to a technical nature about SUSE Linux so that anyone could get help with running, installing, configuring any thing SUSE Linux related. The list FAQ needs updating so we all could re-write it and submit it and see if its accepted. ImageMagick is on-topic because it comes with SUSE Linux. Laura DiDio's non-news, passive-aggressive anti-Linux and pro-Microsoft spew belongs on suse-ot. Negative views of the way the 10.1 package management release happened are on-topic here. Positive ones also. For those that think OT in the message subject line is OK for the suse-linux-e list - go back to pay per byte dial-up and then tell me its OK when you desperately need help with 10.1's package management. If we could have a Chris Mahmood back moderating the list... ah those were the days... Stan -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On 16/06/06, S Glasoe
If we could have a Chris Mahmood back moderating the list... ah those were the days...
Stan
We could certainly do with somebody actively moderating the list. I'm fed up of the bounces from people who subscribe then are too lazy (or otherwise) to unsub themselves. Add to those the idiots who on holiday and leave an out of office reply going :-((( -- ============================================== I am only human, please forgive me if I make a mistake it is not deliberate. ============================================== PLEASE DON'T drink and drive it's not clever, it's just stupid. Kevan Farmer Linux user #373362 Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Ken Schneider wrote:
On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 20:44 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Bjørn Lie wrote:
No he shouldn't. This list is getting bogged down with insane amounts of OT posts. Some people even have the nerve to put OT in the topic, trying to justify posting OT posts, when we have a perfectly good OT mailing-list. I'm one of those people, and personally I'm not trying to justify anything. I think it's a decent way of indicating that a posting isn't exactly on-topic, yet also does not really belong on suse-ot.
Wrong! If the post does not ask for help or offer a solution it belongs on the OT list. As other people have stated that is what it was created for. It's time to get this list back to what it was intended for, helping people that are having problems with there SUSE installation.
Ummmm....Ken, this whole rant by you and others in this thread is OT so would you please take it to the OT forum? Cheers. -- Indecision is the key to flexibility. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Ken Schneider wrote:
On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 20:44 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
I'm one of those people, and personally I'm not trying to justify anything. I think it's a decent way of indicating that a posting isn't exactly on-topic, yet also does not really belong on suse-ot.
Wrong! If the post does not ask for help or offer a solution it belongs on the OT list.
Uh, that's a bit too strict IMHO. You're saying that complaints and comments on e.g. SUSE Linux are off-topic here? The OT question I posted was not SUSE related at all, but only to do with Imagemagick. According to your definition it was entirely on-topic, so ... /Per Jessen, Zürich -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Friday 16 June 2006 05:24, Per Jessen wrote:
Wrong! If the post does not ask for help or offer a solution it belongs on the OT list.
Uh, that's a bit too strict IMHO. You're saying that complaints and comments on e.g. SUSE Linux are off-topic here?
Can't hand out Linux *information*?? How about that nice link to the eReader that just showed up. C'mon everyone, lighten up just a little bit. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Thursday 15 June 2006 02:34 pm, Bjørn Lie wrote:
This list is getting bogged down with insane amounts of OT posts.
I agree, like the seemingly hundreds of posts about the World Cup. Where were the self-appointed OT police then? Complaining about a post on a Linux Planet article that mentions SuSE is nitpicky. Lighten up. Bryan *************************************** Powered by Mepis Linux 3.4-3 KDE 3.5.2 KMail 1.8.3 This is a Microsoft-free computer Bryan S. Tyson bryantyson@earthlink.net *************************************** -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
participants (12)
-
Basil Chupin -
Bjørn Lie -
Bruce Marshall -
Bryan J. Smith -
Bryan S. Tyson -
John -
Kai Ponte -
Ken Jennings -
Ken Schneider -
Kevanf1 -
Per Jessen -
S Glasoe