Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Basil Chupin

29 Oct 2006 29 Oct '06

05:12

http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:Most_Annoying_Bugs Read this before insalling. It's got something there which has been plaguing me for ~ installs now :-( . Perhaps my next (re)install will now go smoothly--maybe, possibly, fingers crossed. Cheers. -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing.

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Clayton

29 Oct 29 Oct

07:06

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

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http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:Most_Annoying_Bugs

Read this before insalling.

It's got something there which has been plaguing me for ~ installs now :-( . Perhaps my next (re)install will now go smoothly--maybe, possibly, fingers crossed.

I've definitely been hit by at least a couple of those bugs... particularly annoying was the one where adding additional sources broke the install. I've also opened a bug on the Segfault I keep having (over multiple clean installs). :-) It's definitely a Beta 1. C

Basil Chupin

07:23

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Clayton wrote:

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http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:Most_Annoying_Bugs

Read this before insalling.

It's got something there which has been plaguing me for ~ installs now :-( . Perhaps my next (re)install will now go smoothly--maybe, possibly, fingers crossed.

I've definitely been hit by at least a couple of those bugs... particularly annoying was the one where adding additional sources broke the install.

*This* is what I wanted to hear from you right at the beginning when I asked if you could let me know how your installation went. So, you DID have this problem which has been sending me around the bend for 2 days now. The failed install is what causes one to have to login in as root only. But the real hassle with ignoring to install the additional sources is that when you go into Yast2 to look at which packages are installed or to go and create new install sources, Yast2 simply exits back to the window and there is no way to see what is installed so that one can add from the CD/DVD.

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I've also opened a bug on the Segfault I keep having (over multiple clean installs).

:-) It's definitely a Beta 1.

To me a beta is something which should only contain the most hidden bugs. All bugs like the ones mentioned in the Annoying Bugs should NOT be there but should have been picked up by alpha 3 at least. For chrissake, the act of simply *installing* the bloody thing is tainted! Now how braindead is that? Doesn't anyone install the damn thing if only to see that the thing will install before placing on the server for people to download and install?! There is some very funny thinking behind all this. Makes one wonder... Cheers. -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing.

Clayton

31 Oct 31 Oct

07:16

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

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*This* is what I wanted to hear from you right at the beginning when I asked if you could let me know how your installation went. So, you DID have this problem which has been sending me around the bend for 2 days now. The failed install is what causes one to have to login in as root only.

Well... yes and no. This only happened on the second full install I tried. When it failed, I rebooted to 10.1, and went looking in Bugzilla and in the Most Annoying Bugs list. When I spotted my problem as a known problem and a workaround, I started the 10.2 install over again... so while I did bump into the broken install thing after enabling Additional Sources, I did not take it any further - I didn't attempt to complete the install after it broke... so didn't come across the root only login issue.

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to go and create new install sources, Yast2 simply exits back to the window and there is no way to see what is installed so that one can add from the CD/DVD.

This might be related to the bug I opened regarding a repeatable SegFault I get with Yast... maybe?

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To me a beta is something which should only contain the most hidden bugs. All bugs like the ones mentioned in the Annoying Bugs should NOT be there but should have been picked up by alpha 3 at least.

Yah true, but the install base on the Alpha versions is a LOT smaller than on the Beta. Plus loads of people are installing Alpha in a VM... so real world testing on the menagerie of computers out there doesn't actually start happening until it's released on us unwashed masses. C.

Basil Chupin

10:28

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Clayton wrote: [pruned]

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To me a beta is something which should only contain the most hidden bugs. All bugs like the ones mentioned in the Annoying Bugs should NOT be there but should have been picked up by alpha 3 at least.

...

Yah true, but the install base on the Alpha versions is a LOT smaller than on the Beta. Plus loads of people are installing Alpha in a VM... so real world testing on the menagerie of computers out there doesn't actually start happening until it's released on us unwashed masses.

You don't need to be a George W Bush to burn a few copies of the CDs, take them home and hand one set to the kids and another/the others to the neighbour(')s(') kids and tell them to try and install the latest and greatest new version of Suse which is about to be foisted on the great unwashed who will spend time (and money) downloading the thing and becoming guinea pigs to be "gotcha"-ed by the little hidden "treasures" inside the OS. As it now stands, I have a copy and you have a copy which cannot be fixed by any patch to be issued as a fix because there is no upgrade/fixing mechanism available. (Were have I seen this before, hm?) I tried installing the version of smart which is on the Suse site but it collapses with a dependency error showing that version <2.9 of something (??glib--can't recall at the moment) is needed. I am going to try and install a copy of smart put together by Pascal Bleser and see what this produces. Cheers. -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing.

John Andersen

10:33

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On Tuesday 31 October 2006 01:28, Basil Chupin wrote:

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As it now stands, I have a copy and you have a copy which cannot be fixed by any patch to be issued as a fix because there is no upgrade/fixing mechanism available. (Were have I seen this before, hm?)

So its not ready for prime time. Give it a week or two Basil and try Kubuntu in the mean time. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

Basil Chupin

10:43

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

John Andersen wrote:

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On Tuesday 31 October 2006 01:28, Basil Chupin wrote:

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As it now stands, I have a copy and you have a copy which cannot be fixed by any patch to be issued as a fix because there is no upgrade/fixing mechanism available. (Were have I seen this before, hm?)

So its not ready for prime time. Give it a week or two Basil and try Kubuntu in the mean time.

I'm trying to try kubuntu, John. It won't install on my computer--well, it starts but when the Live version(1) kicks in the screen is all gibberish (best way to describe it is that it is in 4-bit, pre-CGA, mode :-) ). The RC1 seemed OK but the final is just a bit 'different'. I'll be trying an install again shortly but this time I won' fiddle with the F-keys at boot stage :-) . (1) The final 6.10 boots up as a Live version and you then have the option of actually installing it on the HD. Cheers. -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing.

John Andersen

1 Nov 1 Nov

04:38

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On Tuesday 31 October 2006 01:43, Basil Chupin wrote:

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The final 6.10 boots up as a Live version and you then have the option of actually installing it on the HD.

Yup, that's also the way it was for 6.01. I've been trying to download the 6.10 torrent, but inspite of having 62 peers at least 20 of which have 100% availability its barely loafing along. I don't know if Ktorrent 2.0.3 still has issues, or what, but with that many peers I would expect it to fill my connection to max bandwidth. As it is I'm uploading just as as downloading. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

Basil Chupin

11:08

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

John Andersen wrote:

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On Tuesday 31 October 2006 01:43, Basil Chupin wrote:

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The final 6.10 boots up as a Live version and you then have the option of actually installing it on the HD.

Yup, that's also the way it was for 6.01.

I didn't know. I had downloaded the 6.10 RC1 and that wasn't a Live copy so I assumed that the final would be the same- an installable like SUSE for example. Cheers. -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing.

Felix Miata

31 Oct 31 Oct

12:15

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On 06/10/31 02:32 (GMT-0800) John Andersen apparently typed:

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On Tuesday 31 October 2006 01:28, Basil Chupin wrote:

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As it now stands, I have a copy and you have a copy which cannot be fixed by any patch to be issued as a fix because there is no upgrade/fixing mechanism available. (Were have I seen this before, hm?)

...

So its not ready for prime time. Give it a week or two Basil and try Kubuntu in the mean time.

If you use Matrox, you will be an unhappy camper if you do. Matrox driver was broken long before latest Ubuntu was released last week and still isn't fixed. -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/

Basil Chupin

13:11

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Felix Miata wrote:

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On 06/10/31 02:32 (GMT-0800) John Andersen apparently typed:

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On Tuesday 31 October 2006 01:28, Basil Chupin wrote:

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...
As it now stands, I have a copy and you have a copy which cannot be fixed by any patch to be issued as a fix because there is no upgrade/fixing mechanism available. (Were have I seen this before, hm?)

...
So its not ready for prime time. Give it a week or two Basil and try Kubuntu in the mean time.

If you use Matrox, you will be an unhappy camper if you do. Matrox driver was broken long before latest Ubuntu was released last week and still isn't fixed.

The nVidia driver is also broken I am sure--but I say this with a qualification: the driver does not like the nVidia 6600 card I have; however, I think it is OK with the 5500 card I have on the other computer. I'll check this out later (after I install 10.1 there to test an idea I have about the nVidia driver problem Carlos and Fred are having). Cheers. -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing.

Clayton

11:01

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

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the neighbour(')s(') kids and tell them to try and install the latest and greatest new version of Suse which is about to be foisted on the great unwashed who will spend time (and money) downloading the thing and becoming guinea pigs to be "gotcha"-ed by the little hidden "treasures" inside the OS.

I don't see the issue... it's a Beta 1 release. If everything worked perfectly in a Beta 1 release, it wouldn't be a Beta 1 release... it'd be a formal release. If you're installing 10.2 Beta 1 expecting a fully functioning release, you're in for a nasty shock. Yes, if you're handing this release out to everyone, it's going to fail and rather spectacularly too. Did you read the info when you installed... it clearly stated it was a Beta version :-) Anyway... hang in there... Beta 2 is due out soon. Maybe the update mechanism will be fixed with Beta 2 C.

Basil Chupin

11:50

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Clayton wrote:

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the neighbour(')s(') kids and tell them to try and install the latest and greatest new version of Suse which is about to be foisted on the great unwashed who will spend time (and money) downloading the thing and becoming guinea pigs to be "gotcha"-ed by the little hidden "treasures" inside the OS.

I don't see the issue... it's a Beta 1 release. If everything worked perfectly in a Beta 1 release, it wouldn't be a Beta 1 release... it'd be a formal release. If you're installing 10.2 Beta 1 expecting a fully functioning release, you're in for a nasty shock. Yes, if you're handing this release out to everyone, it's going to fail and rather spectacularly too.

Did you read the info when you installed... it clearly stated it was a Beta version :-)

Here is what the wikipedia, in part, has to say about beta version: QUOTE beta release (pronounced "beetah" or "bayta") usually represents the first version of a computer program that implements all features in the initial software requirements specification. It is likely to be unstable but useful for internal demonstrations and previews to select customers, but not yet ready for release. Some developers refer to this stage as a preview, as a technical preview (TP) or as an early access. UNQUOTE It then goes on to say- QUOTE When a beta becomes available to the general public it is often widely used by the technologically savvy and those familiar with previous versions as though it were the finished product. UNQUOTE

...

Anyway... hang in there... Beta 2 is due out soon. Maybe the update mechanism will be fixed with Beta 2

Once bitten twice shy :-) . I'll wait till version 11.0, thanks. Cheers. -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing.

Clayton

12:07

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

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Here is what the wikipedia, in part, has to say about beta version:

Wikipedia is a source you need to take with the proverbial grain of salt.

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QUOTE beta release (pronounced "beetah" or "bayta") usually represents the first version of a computer program that implements all features in the initial software requirements specification. It is likely to be unstable but useful for internal demonstrations and previews to select customers, but not yet ready for release. Some developers refer to this stage as a preview, as a technical preview (TP) or as an early access. UNQUOTE

OK.. did you miss this key part? QUOTE It is likely to be unstable UNQUOTE or this bit? QUOTE but not yet ready for release. UNQUOTE So.. openSUSE Beta 1 is feature complete, but... "unstable"... and... "not yet ready for release".... exactly as you're definition of Beta states. And exactly as Novell/SUSE claims it is. So your point is what? You proved my point with your own reply.. that its Beta 1... you cannot expect it to be working 100%.

...

I'll wait till version 11.0, thanks.

You're more than welcome to wait :-) but... openSUSE 11.0 Beta 1 will also be a bit wobbly. I work in software development... been in some aspect of development for years... NEVER have I even seen a rock solid Beta. There has always been some issue that was classed a Blocker or Critical... and that was fixed by Beta 2 or Beta 3. <shrug> If you load up a Beta 1 release expecting that it's the final release, you will ALWAYS be disappointed. As an alternative perspective, look at the disaster that MS Vista was in the Beta 1 round. It was horrible. it crashed all the time. it was slow and clunky. Things didn't work right... as subsequent Betas were released the code was cleaned up and it's become at least marginally usable (as much as we can expect from Microsoft anyway). C.

Darryl Gregorash

12:17

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On 31/10/06 05:49, Basil Chupin wrote:

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<snip> Here is what the wikipedia, in part, has to say about beta version: Basil, if you are relying on wikipedia as being definitive, I have some farmland to sell you -- about 350 km due east of Sydney :-)

QUOTE beta release (pronounced "beetah" or "bayta") usually represents the first version of a computer program that implements all features in the initial software requirements specification. It is likely to be unstable but useful for internal demonstrations and previews to select customers, but not yet ready for release. Some developers refer to this stage as a preview, as a technical preview (TP) or as an early access. UNQUOTE

It then goes on to say-

QUOTE When a beta becomes available to the general public it is often widely used by the technologically savvy and those familiar with previous versions as though it were the finished product. UNQUOTE And general availability of the 10.2 alphas does what to this statement? This statement naturally extends to "a beta is generally regarded by the techoids and the experienced user as a finished product".. note the subtle difference, "regarded to be finished" vs. "used as if it were finished". IMO, both views are ludicrous. A beta is there to be broken (ie. you're the end user, try it, break it, and let us know what bugs you find).

The first quote you cite is quite accurate, particularly the part that says "not yet ready for release". The second one is a world full of rose-coloured glasses.

Basil Chupin

13:05

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Darryl Gregorash wrote:

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On 31/10/06 05:49, Basil Chupin wrote:

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<snip> Here is what the wikipedia, in part, has to say about beta version:

...

Basil, if you are relying on wikipedia as being definitive, I have some farmland to sell you -- about 350 km due east of Sydney :-)

Not interested in farmland--there's a drought you know. But I'm in the market for a good Bridge, preferably with Harbour views, if you have something in this line.

...

...
QUOTE beta release (pronounced "beetah" or "bayta") usually represents the first version of a computer program that implements all features in the initial software requirements specification. It is likely to be unstable but useful for internal demonstrations and previews to select customers, but not yet ready for release. Some developers refer to this stage as a preview, as a technical preview (TP) or as an early access. UNQUOTE

It then goes on to say-

QUOTE When a beta becomes available to the general public it is often widely used by the technologically savvy and those familiar with previous versions as though it were the finished product. UNQUOTE

...

And general availability of the 10.2 alphas does what to this statement? This statement naturally extends to "a beta is generally regarded by the techoids and the experienced user as a finished product".. note the subtle difference, "regarded to be finished" vs. "used as if it were finished". IMO, both views are ludicrous. A beta is there to be broken (ie. you're the end user, try it, break it, and let us know what bugs you find).

I think both you and Clayton are missing the point here. I fully understand and accept that a beta may be unstable and there to be broken (but strangely, every beta of Firefox has performed almost flawlessly; the same I can say about Thunderbird and I am now using the beta1 of v2.0 without any problems [except one very minor one which doesn't affect its daily use]). Before you can find out if the program is unstable or can be broken you must be able to *install* the damn thing. Beta1 won't even install correctly for chrissake! :-) . You cannot even find out what has been installed when you do install it after doing the "workaround" because one of the key components--for which 10.1 has now become infamous--is not installed by the installation module! If you look at the Most Annoying Bugs list you will see that there was no mention for the need of a "workaround" during installation in alpha5 --it came in at the beta 1 stage. Now, surely any fair minded person would take this as progress, a natural step necessary for the software to now come under the definition of a beta and therefore be deemed as possibly unstable and probably full of bugs. How can you take a piece of software called v10.1 which works, work on it for months to fix any discovered bugs as well as introduce new features, eg the latest Linux kernel and the new-look menus, call the work-in-progress alphas, reach alpha5 stage and then put out a beta which won't even install?! [pruned] Cheers. -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing.

Darryl Gregorash

23:13

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On 31/10/06 07:05, Basil Chupin wrote:

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Darryl Gregorash wrote:

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On 31/10/06 05:49, Basil Chupin wrote:

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<snip> Here is what the wikipedia, in part, has to say about beta version:

...
Basil, if you are relying on wikipedia as being definitive, I have some farmland to sell you -- about 350 km due east of Sydney :-)

Not interested in farmland--there's a drought you know. But I'm in the market for a good Bridge, preferably with Harbour views, if you have something in this line. Sorry, have no bridges. How about some beachfront property near Alice Springs?

...

I think both you and Clayton are missing the point here. I fully understand and accept that a beta may be unstable and there to be broken (but strangely, every beta of Firefox has performed almost flawlessly; the same I can say about Thunderbird and I am now using the beta1 of v2.0 without any problems [except one very minor one which doesn't affect its daily use]). Given the number of open severe bugs I just found in the mozilla core alone, I have to say you are very lucky.

Before you can find out if the program is unstable or can be broken you must be able to *install* the damn thing. Beta1 won't even install correctly for chrissake! :-) . You cannot even find out what has been installed when you do install it after doing the "workaround" because one of the key components--for which 10.1 has now become infamous--is not installed by the installation module! Is Yast not installed?

I won't try to suggest that the problem is a trivial one, because it isn't. Beyond suggesting it might be the unintentional byproduct of some other bug fix (which probably happens a lot more often than anyone might wish to believe), I wont' even speculate how or why it arose. But that is what you get when you sign up for a beta. If you don't even have Yast, the old standby, at your disposal, then yes, it is irreparably broken. Is it really that bad?

Patrick Shanahan

1 Nov 1 Nov

00:23

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

* Darryl Gregorash [10-31-06 18:15]:

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Sorry, have no bridges. How about some beachfront property near Alice Springs?

Near Anzac Hill ?? -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2

Basil Chupin

11:22

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Darryl Gregorash wrote:

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On 31/10/06 07:05, Basil Chupin wrote:

...
Darryl Gregorash wrote:

...
On 31/10/06 05:49, Basil Chupin wrote:

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<snip> Here is what the wikipedia, in part, has to say about beta version: Basil, if you are relying on wikipedia as being definitive, I have some farmland to sell you -- about 350 km due east of Sydney :-) Not interested in farmland--there's a drought you know. But I'm in the market for a good Bridge, preferably with Harbour views, if you have something in this line.

...

Sorry, have no bridges. How about some beachfront property near Alice Springs?

What's the asking price?

...

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I think both you and Clayton are missing the point here. I fully understand and accept that a beta may be unstable and there to be broken (but strangely, every beta of Firefox has performed almost flawlessly; the same I can say about Thunderbird and I am now using the beta1 of v2.0 without any problems [except one very minor one which doesn't affect its daily use]).

...

Given the number of open severe bugs I just found in the mozilla core alone, I have to say you are very lucky.

Rubbish. Name 50!

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Before you can find out if the program is unstable or can be broken you must be able to *install* the damn thing. Beta1 won't even install correctly for chrissake! :-) . You cannot even find out what has been installed when you do install it after doing the "workaround" because one of the key components--for which 10.1 has now become infamous--is not installed by the installation module!

...

Is Yast not installed?

Yast2 Control Centre is but none of the YOU bits work. Each pretends to start then suddenly disappears. The YOU Software Management, eg, starts, states that it is preparing a list of software, announces that it is Downloading something (?the Source), then poof! just vanishes.

...

I won't try to suggest that the problem is a trivial one, because it isn't. Beyond suggesting it might be the unintentional byproduct of some other bug fix (which probably happens a lot more often than anyone might wish to believe), I wont' even speculate how or why it arose.

But that is what you get when you sign up for a beta. If you don't even have Yast, the old standby, at your disposal, then yes, it is irreparably broken. Is it really that bad?

It's all relative, isn't it? To me, yes, but to some others it's accepted as a natural occurrence in betas and therefore nothing of any import. Cheers. -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing.

Clayton

11:59

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

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Yast2 Control Centre is but none of the YOU bits work. Each pretends to start then suddenly disappears. The YOU Software Management, eg, starts, states that it is preparing a list of software, announces that it is Downloading something (?the Source), then poof! just vanishes.

It's Segfaulting... there are a few bugs open on this. If you start YaST form the command line, you get the privilege of seeing the segfault :-) Not too helpful if you don't know how to fix it, but it takes the poof out of what's happeneing.

...

It's all relative, isn't it? To me, yes, but to some others it's accepted as a natural occurrence in betas and therefore nothing of any import.

I wouldn't say it's nothing of any import. It's something that absolutely needs to be fix, and as soon as possible... but... the fact that it exists in 10.2 Beta 1 is not something that should scare you off until 11.0. Your earlier comments on Beta 1 made it sound as if you were expecting a fully functional and 100% working SUSE release.... something you can and should never expect from a Beta 1 release. If the same problem is still there in Beta 2 and Beta 3... then it's time to panic. :-) Meanwhile... if you are like me and not able to really contribute to the actual repair work, you do like we all do.. try it out on a non-critical system... report the bugs... and provide any additional information the developers need to find the cause of the problem. Then in the end.. there's (hopefully) a 10.2 release in December that works almost perfectly. C.

Basil Chupin

13:35

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Clayton wrote:

...

...
Yast2 Control Centre is but none of the YOU bits work. Each pretends to start then suddenly disappears. The YOU Software Management, eg, starts, states that it is preparing a list of software, announces that it is Downloading something (?the Source), then poof! just vanishes.

It's Segfaulting... there are a few bugs open on this. If you start YaST form the command line, you get the privilege of seeing the segfault :-) Not too helpful if you don't know how to fix it, but it takes the poof out of what's happeneing.

So instead of going "poof" it goes "clunk" in front of your eyes, eh? :-) I'm glad someone has submitted reports on this "poof"/"clunk" phenomenon.

...

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It's all relative, isn't it? To me, yes, but to some others it's accepted as a natural occurrence in betas and therefore nothing of any import.

I wouldn't say it's nothing of any import. It's something that absolutely needs to be fix, and as soon as possible... but... the fact that it exists in 10.2 Beta 1 is not something that should scare you off until 11.0. Your earlier comments on Beta 1 made it sound as if you were expecting a fully functional and 100% working SUSE release.... something you can and should never expect from a Beta 1 release.

Never! I expect very little at all times. My needs are simple.

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If the same problem is still there in Beta 2 and Beta 3... then it's time to panic. :-)

Beta 2 is due out next Thursday. What are the odds this problem will be fixed? :-)

...

Meanwhile... if you are like me and not able to really contribute to the actual repair work, you do like we all do.. try it out on a non-critical system... report the bugs... and provide any additional information the developers need to find the cause of the problem. Then in the end.. there's (hopefully) a 10.2 release in December that works almost perfectly.

It would be a nice Christmas present all 'round if 10.2 came out as a functional release. Cheers. -- "They misunderestimated me." George W. Bush 6 November 2000

Anders Johansson

12:25

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On Wednesday 01 November 2006 12:22, Basil Chupin wrote:

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Yast2 Control Centre is but none of the YOU bits work. Each pretends to start then suddenly disappears. The YOU Software Management, eg, starts, states that it is preparing a list of software, announces that it is Downloading something (?the Source), then poof! just vanishes.

Who are you calling a poof? :) Anyway, please file a bug for it in bugzilla.novell.com. It sounds as if something is crashing

Basil Chupin

12:37

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Anders Johansson wrote:

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On Wednesday 01 November 2006 12:22, Basil Chupin wrote:

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Yast2 Control Centre is but none of the YOU bits work. Each pretends to start then suddenly disappears. The YOU Software Management, eg, starts, states that it is preparing a list of software, announces that it is Downloading something (?the Source), then poof! just vanishes.

Who are you calling a poof? :)

HE knows who I mean, HE knows! :-)

...

Anyway, please file a bug for it in bugzilla.novell.com. It sounds as if something is crashing

You mean, you mean...nobody has reported this?! Oh my gosh. (I'm going to go and take a red pill now.) Cheers. -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing.

Anders Johansson

12:47

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On Wednesday 01 November 2006 13:36, Basil Chupin wrote:

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You mean, you mean...nobody has reported this?! Oh my gosh.

I don't know, I haven't checked. But step 1 when filing a bug is to search bugzilla to see if there already are matching entries, and if so add a "me too" in it, with the particulars of your system, if they don't match the ones in the existing report. This can help narrow down the cause of the crash

Basil Chupin

13:14

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Anders Johansson wrote:

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On Wednesday 01 November 2006 13:36, Basil Chupin wrote:

...
You mean, you mean...nobody has reported this?! Oh my gosh.

I don't know, I haven't checked. But step 1 when filing a bug is to search bugzilla to see if there already are matching entries, and if so add a "me too" in it, with the particulars of your system, if they don't match the ones in the existing report. This can help narrow down the cause of the crash

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Last Sunday in our local 'paper there was the 'Dilbert' cartoon which I cannot but feel captures what may now be happening with SUSE. If not then it is just simply funny. Unfortunately this mail list doesn't accept attachments and I don't think it would be possible to insert the jpg image (I scanned the cartoon) into a message here. Pity. If you get a chance go to the Dilbert author's site - www.dilbert.com - and have a look at the cartoon dated 12/11/05. Cheers. -- "They misunderestimated me." George W. Bush 6 November 2000

Anders Johansson

13:42

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On Wednesday 01 November 2006 14:14, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Anders Johansson wrote:

...
On Wednesday 01 November 2006 13:36, Basil Chupin wrote:

...
You mean, you mean...nobody has reported this?! Oh my gosh.

I don't know, I haven't checked. But step 1 when filing a bug is to search bugzilla to see if there already are matching entries, and if so add a "me too" in it, with the particulars of your system, if they don't match the ones in the existing report. This can help narrow down the cause of the crash

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Last Sunday in our local 'paper there was the 'Dilbert' cartoon which I cannot but feel captures what may now be happening with SUSE. If not then it is just simply funny. Unfortunately this mail list doesn't accept attachments and I don't think it would be possible to insert the jpg image (I scanned the cartoon) into a message here. Pity. If you get a chance go to the Dilbert author's site - www.dilbert.com - and have a look at the cartoon dated 12/11/05.

It doesn't look like the archive goes back that far. I'm not sure what you're driving at though. Asking for details about a bug so it can be fixed was the subject of a Dilbert strip?? ps. date formats are icky. Does that mean December 11 or November 12? In future, please write it out, it's not even a common format in the English speaking world, let alone the rest of the world, so on a list like this, confusion is dominant

Felix Miata

15:05

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On 06/11/01 14:42 (GMT+0100) Anders Johansson apparently typed:

...

ps. date formats are icky. Does that mean December 11 or November 12? In future, please write it out, it's not even a common format in the English speaking world, let alone the rest of the world, so on a list like this, confusion is dominant

Writing out isn't necessary if you use the ISO 8601 format, which is like writing ordinary numbers, with most significant digits to the left. 2005.11.12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format#yyyy-mm-dd_.28year.2C_month.2C_day.... -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/

Darryl Gregorash

21:32

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On 01/11/06 09:05, Felix Miata wrote:

...

On 06/11/01 14:42 (GMT+0100) Anders Johansson apparently typed:

...
ps. date formats are icky. Does that mean December 11 or November 12? In future, please write it out, it's not even a common format in the English speaking world, let alone the rest of the world, so on a list like this, confusion is dominant

Writing out isn't necessary if you use the ISO 8601 format, which is like writing ordinary numbers, with most significant digits to the left. 2005.11.12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format#yyyy-mm-dd_.28year.2C_month.2C_day....

You have no idea of the confusion I cause here when I write a date in this format. However, I am slowly educating the masses :-) Diverging slightly, have you managed to convince Seamonkey to use ISO 8601? KDE on my system is set to use it, but Mozilla continues to hold out for the archaic way of doing things.

Felix Miata

21:59

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On 06/11/01 15:32 (GMT-0600) Darryl Gregorash apparently typed:

...

On 01/11/06 09:05, Felix Miata wrote:

...

...
Writing out isn't necessary if you use the ISO 8601 format, which is like writing ordinary numbers, with most significant digits to the left. 2005.11.12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format#yyyy-mm-dd_.28year.2C_month.2C_day....

...

You have no idea of the confusion I cause here when I write a date in this format. However, I am slowly educating the masses :-)

Anything else in an international forum such as this is little other than a disregard for clear communication.

...

Diverging slightly, have you managed to convince Seamonkey to use ISO 8601? KDE on my system is set to use it, but Mozilla continues to hold out for the archaic way of doing things.

I don't remember whether the format you see above is purely taken from the OS, or if a hidden pref plays a part. It's possible mailnews.reply_header_type may have something to do with it. The time you see above is actually a semi-manual entry. SM lays it out, but the TZ is fixed via hidden pref and I have to adjust it manually before sending or else it looks like the post quoted from looks like it originated in my TZ whether it did or not. -- "Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven." Matthew 5:12 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/

James Knott

4 Nov 4 Nov

20:15

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Darryl Gregorash wrote:

...

On 01/11/06 09:05, Felix Miata wrote:

...
On 06/11/01 14:42 (GMT+0100) Anders Johansson apparently typed:

...
ps. date formats are icky. Does that mean December 11 or November 12? In future, please write it out, it's not even a common format in the English speaking world, let alone the rest of the world, so on a list like this, confusion is dominant

Writing out isn't necessary if you use the ISO 8601 format, which is like writing ordinary numbers, with most significant digits to the left. 2005.11.12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format#yyyy-mm-dd_.28year.2C_month.2C_day....

You have no idea of the confusion I cause here when I write a date in this format. However, I am slowly educating the masses :-)

I thought ISO 8601 required hyphens, not periods.

Anders Johansson

1 Nov 1 Nov

21:53

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On Wednesday 01 November 2006 16:05, Felix Miata wrote:

...

On 06/11/01 14:42 (GMT+0100) Anders Johansson apparently typed:

...
ps. date formats are icky. Does that mean December 11 or November 12? In future, please write it out, it's not even a common format in the English speaking world, let alone the rest of the world, so on a list like this, confusion is dominant

Writing out isn't necessary if you use the ISO 8601 format, which is like writing ordinary numbers, with most significant digits to the left. 2005.11.12

This is actually the normal format in Sweden, so I'm quite used to that. But it completely misses the point, which is that people have different standards in their everyday lives. Unless you write it out, you will cause confusion, this is a simple fact which cannot be solved by an ISO standard

James Knott

4 Nov 4 Nov

03:46

New subject: SPAM: Re: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Anders Johansson wrote:

...

On Wednesday 01 November 2006 14:14, Basil Chupin wrote:

...
Anders Johansson wrote:

...
On Wednesday 01 November 2006 13:36, Basil Chupin wrote:

...
You mean, you mean...nobody has reported this?! Oh my gosh. I don't know, I haven't checked. But step 1 when filing a bug is to search bugzilla to see if there already are matching entries, and if so add a "me too" in it, with the particulars of your system, if they don't match the ones in the existing report. This can help narrow down the cause of the crash ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Last Sunday in our local 'paper there was the 'Dilbert' cartoon which I cannot but feel captures what may now be happening with SUSE. If not then it is just simply funny. Unfortunately this mail list doesn't accept attachments and I don't think it would be possible to insert the jpg image (I scanned the cartoon) into a message here. Pity. If you get a chance go to the Dilbert author's site - www.dilbert.com - and have a look at the cartoon dated 12/11/05.

It doesn't look like the archive goes back that far.

I'm not sure what you're driving at though. Asking for details about a bug so it can be fixed was the subject of a Dilbert strip??

ps. date formats are icky. Does that mean December 11 or November 12? In future, please write it out, it's not even a common format in the English speaking world, let alone the rest of the world, so on a list like this, confusion is dominant

Or perhaps just post the URL of that Dilbert.

Randall R Schulz

1 Nov 1 Nov

15:27

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Basil, On Wednesday 01 November 2006 05:14, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

...

Last Sunday in our local 'paper there was the 'Dilbert' cartoon which I cannot but feel captures what may now be happening with SUSE. If not then it is just simply funny. Unfortunately this mail list doesn't accept attachments and I don't think it would be possible to insert the jpg image (I scanned the cartoon) into a message here. Pity. If you get a chance go to the Dilbert author's site - www.dilbert.com - and have a look at the cartoon dated 12/11/05.

I assume you're referring to Dec. 11, 2005. Do you know how to see installments older than a month? I can't see back further than Oct 1, 2006. RRS

Fergus Wilde

16:07

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On Wednesday 01 November 2006 15:27, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

Basil,

On Wednesday 01 November 2006 05:14, Basil Chupin wrote:

...
...

Last Sunday in our local 'paper there was the 'Dilbert' cartoon which I cannot but feel captures what may now be happening with SUSE. If not then it is just simply funny. Unfortunately this mail list doesn't accept attachments and I don't think it would be possible to insert the jpg image (I scanned the cartoon) into a message here. Pity. If you get a chance go to the Dilbert author's site - www.dilbert.com - and have a look at the cartoon dated 12/11/05.

I assume you're referring to Dec. 11, 2005.

Round my part of the world that would be 12 November 2005 - just for clarity, given that lots of Europeans and lots of North Americans are on the list, might it be good for people to put the month as Jan, Feb etc? Just a thought, Best to all Fergus

...

Do you know how to see installments older than a month? I can't see back further than Oct 1, 2006.

RRS

-- Fergus Wilde Chetham's Library Long Millgate Manchester M3 1SB Tel: 0161 834 7961 Fax: 0161 839 5797 http://www.chethams.org.uk

Carlos E. R.

8 Nov 8 Nov

23:01

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2006-11-01 at 16:06 -0000, Fergus Wilde wrote:

...

...
I assume you're referring to Dec. 11, 2005.

Round my part of the world that would be 12 November 2005 - just for clarity,

In mine too.

...

given that lots of Europeans and lots of North Americans are on the list, might it be good for people to put the month as Jan, Feb etc? Just a thought,

Or iso if numbers only, year in four digit format - remember 2000? That's what standards are good for, after all. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFUmG7tTMYHG2NR9URAgckAJ9kgGW/8gi07hMZdckmTey2j8kHMACfRwgo bn8Ke3KoPT7dGjU8PRLEAjw= =Bnsl -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Anders Johansson

23:06

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On Thursday 09 November 2006 00:01, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The Wednesday 2006-11-01 at 16:06 -0000, Fergus Wilde wrote:

...
...
I assume you're referring to Dec. 11, 2005.

Round my part of the world that would be 12 November 2005 - just for clarity,

In mine too.

...
given that lots of Europeans and lots of North Americans are on the list, might it be good for people to put the month as Jan, Feb etc? Just a thought,

Or iso if numbers only, year in four digit format - remember 2000? That's what standards are good for, after all.

No, because then you're back to confusion again. People default to their own local way of writing dates if you use numbers. If you do, you'd have to point out explicitly every time that "this date is in ISO format", and in the end it's just easier and less confusing to just write out the month name in letters

HG

9 Nov 9 Nov

20:53

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Hi! On 11/9/06, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

On Thursday 09 November 2006 00:01, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
Or iso if numbers only, year in four digit format - remember 2000? That's what standards are good for, after all.

No, because then you're back to confusion again. People default to their own local way of writing dates if you use numbers. If you do, you'd have to point out explicitly every time that "this date is in ISO format", and in the end

(Getting far away to OT land here...) I agree with Carlos. ISO format is a standard, so IMO you do not have to state that the date is according to the standard, rather the other way around: "this date is no by the standard." :-) But I do get what you are saying. Except that I believe you are wrong. If we were to agree that the standard virtually anything else, then it would be confusing. All "confusing" date that are used seem to start with either month or day - and you never know which. Or if the year is expressed with only 2 numbers, then ... well that should not be done anyways. The ISO format, 2006-11-09, differs clearly from all other common formats (starts with full year, doesn't use dot or slash) and therefore doesn't cause confusions. I have never seen a format that looks like ISO, but has day and month swapped around... Of course, I might be wrong as I do not know *all* the used date formats. So you are welcome to prove me wrong. I do not mind. -- HG.

Anders Johansson

21:13

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On Thursday 09 November 2006 21:53, HG wrote:

...

But I do get what you are saying. Except that I believe you are wrong. If we were to agree that the standard virtually anything else, then it would be confusing.

This sentence is confusing. There seems to be words missing In any case, the problem is that there are an incredible number of people who grew up thinking mm/dd was the only way of giving a date, and another incredible number of people who learned dd/mm was the only way, and they have all been doing it just about every day of their entire lives. You cannot come along and say "ok, we will now all do it the ISO way". Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind if this worked, because the ISO way is actually the standard way in Sweden, so for me it would be easy :) But it just won't ever work, without a massive amount of marketing and education, which is obviously way beyond the means of a mailing list. You have a much easier time getting Americans and Brits to use decimal measuring systems (which can (and will eventually) happen, but not without confusion and airplane accidents)

Carlos E. R.

23:19

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2006-11-09 at 22:13 +0100, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

But it just won't ever work, without a massive amount of marketing and education, which is obviously way beyond the means of a mailing list.

Ahem! I do my little bit - see my greeting line ;-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFU7dctTMYHG2NR9URAhZ0AKCOFwbjk4J4aDKQ24vXlzhZvljicgCePtxD mtzP6GqVctykvK/xYpk2T+E= =J75w -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

HG

10 Nov 10 Nov

06:28

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Hi! On 11/9/06, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

On Thursday 09 November 2006 21:53, HG wrote:

...
But I do get what you are saying. Except that I believe you are wrong. If we were to agree that the standard virtually anything else, then it would be confusing.

This sentence is confusing. There seems to be words missing

Heh, yes there are... but not that many 8-)

...

In any case, the problem is that there are an incredible number of people who grew up thinking mm/dd was the only way of giving a date, and another incredible number of people who learned dd/mm was the only way, and they have

Where do they all write the year? You left that out. I think that you are actually saying that people will confuse mm/dd/yy with dd/mm/yy or mm.dd.yy (is that even used?) and dd.mm.yy. And the same with mm/dd/yyyy and dd/mm/yyyy (as with the dots). Right? My point: none of those resemble ISO at all. ISO is not going to be confused with those.

...

all been doing it just about every day of their entire lives. You cannot come along and say "ok, we will now all do it the ISO way".

Sure we can! ;-) -- HG.

Carl William Spitzer IV

1 Nov 1 Nov

23:21

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 00:14 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Anders Johansson wrote:

...
On Wednesday 01 November 2006 13:36, Basil Chupin wrote:

...
You mean, you mean...nobody has reported this?! Oh my gosh.

I don't know, I haven't checked. But step 1 when filing a bug is to search bugzilla to see if there already are matching entries, and if so add a "me too" in it, with the particulars of your system, if they don't match the ones in the existing report. This can help narrow down the cause of the crash

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Last Sunday in our local 'paper there was the 'Dilbert' cartoon which I cannot but feel captures what may now be happening with SUSE. If not then it is just simply funny. Unfortunately this mail list doesn't accept attachments and I don't think it would be possible to insert the jpg image (I scanned the cartoon) into a message here. Pity. If you get a chance go to the Dilbert author's site - www.dilbert.com - and have a look at the cartoon dated 12/11/05.

Archive does not appear to go back that far. Cheers. CWSIV

Clayton

12:44

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

...

Anyway, please file a bug for it in bugzilla.novell.com. It sounds as if something is crashing

Something is crashing... I filed a bug on at least one aspect of this... and from the looks of it, there are a few others in there too. C.

Ed McCanless

20:46

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Darryl Gregorash wrote: <CUT>

...
Is Yast not installed?

Yast2 Control Centre is but none of the YOU bits work. Each pretends to start then suddenly disappears. The YOU Software Management, eg, starts, states that it is preparing a list of software, announces that it is Downloading something (?the Source), then poof! just vanishes. I had a very similar problem with YaST2, in 10.1 back when everyone was having trouble with the updater. Is it possible that 10.2 has found another conflict with the zen stuff (please excuse the high tech language)? Also, I would like to say, my experience with the 10.1 release was more beta-like than any of the betas I have tried in the past. However, I should qualify this by saying they were simple apps, not OS's.

-- ED --

Darryl Gregorash

21:22

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=Core&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_severity=blocker&bug_severity=critical&rep_platform=PC&op_sys=Linux&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=exact&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailtype2=exact&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Bug+Number&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=Core&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_severity=blocker&bug_severity=critical&rep_platform=PC&op_sys=Linux&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=exact&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailtype2=exact&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Bug+Number&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=On 01/11/06 05:22, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Darryl Gregorash wrote:

...
On 31/10/06 07:05, Basil Chupin wrote:

...
Darryl Gregorash wrote:

...
On 31/10/06 05:49, Basil Chupin wrote:

...
<snip> Here is what the wikipedia, in part, has to say about beta version: Basil, if you are relying on wikipedia as being definitive, I have some farmland to sell you -- about 350 km due east of Sydney :-) Not interested in farmland--there's a drought you know. But I'm in the market for a good Bridge, preferably with Harbour views, if you have something in this line.

...
Sorry, have no bridges. How about some beachfront property near Alice Springs?

What's the asking price? How much money do you have? :-)

(For Patrick: I have no idea where Anzac Hill is. I don't manage the beachfront property, I merely own it :) )

...

...
Given the number of open severe bugs I just found in the mozilla core alone, I have to say you are very lucky.

Rubbish. Name 50!

Here are only 33, all critical, all status "assigned" or "reopened", all for Linux/PC, all in the mozilla core: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=Core &long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr &status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED &bug_severity=blocker&bug_severity=critical&rep_platform=PC&op_sys=Linux&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=exact &email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailtype2=exact&email2=&bugidtype=include &bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Bug+Number&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0= That is all one line, BTW. There are a further 43 bugs with severity=major, other criteria the same.

...

...
Is Yast not installed?

Yast2 Control Centre is but none of the YOU bits work. Each pretends to start then suddenly disappears. The YOU Software Management, eg, starts, states that it is preparing a list of software, announces that it is Downloading something (?the Source), then poof! just vanishes.

That is not good news. However, before you give up all hope, I noted just a minute ago that the 10.2 updates repository doesn't yet exist. Perhaps YOU is simply choking on a null field. It's still a rather large bug, but not necessarily a complete killer.

Patrick Shanahan

21:40

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

* Darryl Gregorash [11-01-06 16:25]:

...

(For Patrick: I have no idea where Anzac Hill is. I don't manage the beachfront property, I merely own it :) )

Was on the north side of Alice Springs, NT, Australia. Guess you buy sight unseen.... -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2

Darryl Gregorash

2 Nov 2 Nov

01:21

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On 01/11/06 15:40, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Darryl Gregorash [11-01-06 16:25]:

...
(For Patrick: I have no idea where Anzac Hill is. I don't manage the beachfront property, I merely own it :) )

Was on the north side of Alice Springs, NT, Australia.

Guess you buy sight unseen....

Ahh, yes.. north. All the desert.... er, beachfront.. property I have there is to the south. I do have a couple of ski resorts to the north though. You interested in picking up one of them?

Patrick Shanahan

04:00

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

* Darryl Gregorash [11-01-06 20:22]:

...

Ahh, yes.. north. All the desert.... er, beachfront.. property I have there is to the south. I do have a couple of ski resorts to the north though. You interested in picking up one of them?

I believe that you would have to go quite a ways north, possibly Darwin to see beaches ??? And ski resorts would be south and east, also a considerable distance. But things may have changed in the 40+ years since I was there..... -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2

Basil Chupin

05:11

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Darryl Gregorash [11-01-06 20:22]:

...
Ahh, yes.. north. All the desert.... er, beachfront.. property I have there is to the south. I do have a couple of ski resorts to the north though. You interested in picking up one of them?

I believe that you would have to go quite a ways north, possibly Darwin to see beaches ??? And ski resorts would be south and east, also a considerable distance. But things may have changed in the 40+ years since I was there.....

Patrick, Darryll should be accorded the title of an Honourary Australian - if he isn't an Australian already :-D . The Tropic of Capricorn runs through Australia about 40 km north of Alice Springs. The closest we have to Mount Kilimanjaro (5895 metres) is Mount Kosciuszko (2228 metres) in southern part of New South Wales (just south of where I am). And even the snows of Kilimanjaro have all but disappeared :-( . Cheers. -- When the going gets tough, the tough get SUSE.

Darryl Gregorash

05:17

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On 2006-11-01 22:00, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Darryl Gregorash [11-01-06 20:22]:

...
Ahh, yes.. north. All the desert.... er, beachfront.. property I have there is to the south. I do have a couple of ski resorts to the north though. You interested in picking up one of them?

I believe that you would have to go quite a ways north, possibly Darwin to see beaches ??? And ski resorts would be south and east, also a considerable distance. But things may have changed in the 40+ years since I was there.....

Well, if you don't want the beachfront property, how about that farm I have, 350 km east of Sydney? Basil seems uninterested.

John Andersen

1 Nov 1 Nov

04:40

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On Tuesday 31 October 2006 04:05, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

...
Basil, if you are relying on wikipedia as being definitive, I have some farmland to sell you -- about 350 km due east of Sydney :-)

Not interested in farmland--there's a drought you know.

Not where this farm land is..... -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

Basil Chupin

11:32

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

John Andersen wrote:

...

On Tuesday 31 October 2006 04:05, Basil Chupin wrote:

...
...
Basil, if you are relying on wikipedia as being definitive, I have some farmland to sell you -- about 350 km due east of Sydney :-) Not interested in farmland--there's a drought you know.

Not where this farm land is.....

What, Wyalong? Slap bang in the middle of the driest part? Cheers. -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing.

Anders Johansson

12:26

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On Wednesday 01 November 2006 12:32, Basil Chupin wrote:

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John Andersen wrote:

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On Tuesday 31 October 2006 04:05, Basil Chupin wrote:

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Basil, if you are relying on wikipedia as being definitive, I have some farmland to sell you -- about 350 km due east of Sydney :-)

Not interested in farmland--there's a drought you know.

Not where this farm land is.....

What, Wyalong? Slap bang in the middle of the driest part?

350km *east* of Sydney would be somewhere in the Pacific ocean, I'm pretty sure that doesn't qualify as dry.

Basil Chupin

12:30

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Anders Johansson wrote:

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On Wednesday 01 November 2006 12:32, Basil Chupin wrote:

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John Andersen wrote:

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On Tuesday 31 October 2006 04:05, Basil Chupin wrote:

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Basil, if you are relying on wikipedia as being definitive, I have some farmland to sell you -- about 350 km due east of Sydney :-) Not interested in farmland--there's a drought you know. Not where this farm land is..... What, Wyalong? Slap bang in the middle of the driest part?

350km *east* of Sydney would be somewhere in the Pacific ocean, I'm pretty sure that doesn't qualify as dry.

Aaaah, s***! :-) . Fell for that one hook, line and sinker :-) . (Must stop taking those red pills.) Cheers. -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing.

Ed McCanless

21:02

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Basil Chupin wrote:

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Aaaah, s***! :-) .

Fell for that one hook, line and sinker :-) .

(Must stop taking those red pills.)

Cheers.

Must be the cinnamon flavor, they're quite strong. -- ED --

Darryl Gregorash

21:35

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On 01/11/06 06:30, Basil Chupin wrote:

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Anders Johansson wrote:

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On Wednesday 01 November 2006 12:32, Basil Chupin wrote:

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John Andersen wrote:

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On Tuesday 31 October 2006 04:05, Basil Chupin wrote:

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...
Basil, if you are relying on wikipedia as being definitive, I have some farmland to sell you -- about 350 km due east of Sydney :-) Not interested in farmland--there's a drought you know. Not where this farm land is..... What, Wyalong? Slap bang in the middle of the driest part?

350km *east* of Sydney would be somewhere in the Pacific ocean, I'm pretty sure that doesn't qualify as dry.

Aaaah, s***! :-) .

Fell for that one hook, line and sinker :-) .

And the beachfront property at Alice Springs -- now *there* is a place with a serious drought problem :-)

...

(Must stop taking those red pills.)

Or more of them :-)

Randall R Schulz

31 Oct 31 Oct

14:42

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Darryl, On Tuesday 31 October 2006 04:17, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

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And general availability of the 10.2 alphas does what to this statement?

I believe the Wikipedia definition to be the "classic" software development one and does not reflect practice of today's "community" software projects such as Fedora Core or openSUSE.

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Randall Schuzl

Randall R Schulz

14:40

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Hi, On Tuesday 31 October 2006 03:49, Basil Chupin wrote:

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Here is what the wikipedia, in part, has to say about beta version:

QUOTE beta release (pronounced "beetah" or "bayta") usually represents the first version of a computer program that implements all features in the initial software requirements specification. It is likely to be unstable but useful for internal demonstrations and previews to select customers, but not yet ready for release. Some developers refer to this stage as a preview, as a technical preview (TP) or as an early access. UNQUOTE

It then goes on to say-

QUOTE When a beta becomes available to the general public it is often widely used by the technologically savvy and those familiar with previous versions as though it were the finished product. UNQUOTE

To which we should add that users of beta software must be willing to accept bugs and generally unpredictable behavior and should not put it into any kind of mission-critical use. I'm currently running 10.2 beta1 (I started with alpha5) because I'm bringing a new machine into service and its hardware is so new as to require the latest and greatest. Neither the beta of Ubuntu (of three weeks ago) nor the then-current FC 6 beta were capable of installing because they lacked sufficient hardware drivers. SuSE is still king! Randall Schulz

Darryl Gregorash

12:07

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

On 31/10/06 05:01, Clayton wrote:

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<snip> I don't see the issue... it's a Beta 1 release. If everything worked perfectly in a Beta 1 release, it wouldn't be a Beta 1 release... it'd be a formal release. No, it wouldn't.. it'd be a beta 1 with no bugs found as yet :-)

In reality, probably the only significant difference between alpha<last> and beta 1 is that a first beta of anything is usually the first feature-complete release. Historically, beta 1 has been the first release to go "out of house" for testing. When the prospective end users get their hands on something, you don't want it to be a moving target. OpenSuSE has upset that cart a bit, by making the 10.2 alphas available to those end users, but only beta 1 is marked "feature complete".

Carlos E. R.

29 Oct 29 Oct

19:43

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2006-10-29 at 16:12 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:

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http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:Most_Annoying_Bugs

Read this before insalling.

| * During installation you will be asked if you want to add additional | installation sources. That will often fail and cause the installation | routine to abort leaving you with an incomplete configured system. | Workaround: don't agree to add additional sources. Bug 214886 That means that I'll have to wait till they solve it before I try :-/ - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFRQRjtTMYHG2NR9URAkczAJ9BaP/YvbHXGljctPSQb26HbQB/qACgl7DR iSR933RL8HzFrV+liRJ+97A= =SBcc -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Basil Chupin

30 Oct 30 Oct

05:34

New subject: [SLE] Installing 10.2 beta 1: read this BEFORE installing

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

The Sunday 2006-10-29 at 16:12 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:

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http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:Most_Annoying_Bugs

Read this before insalling.

| * During installation you will be asked if you want to add additional | installation sources. That will often fail and cause the installation | routine to abort leaving you with an incomplete configured system. | Workaround: don't agree to add additional sources. Bug 214886

That means that I'll have to wait till they solve it before I try :-/

You bet. The work around only give yous the opportunity to see what the layout is like and try out the applications which WERE installed during the installation. But if you want to know what actually WAS installed or want to delete/add software you have as much chance of doing so as flying by flapping your arms. Pitiful. Cheers. -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing.

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14 participants

participants (14)

Anders Johansson
Basil Chupin
Carl William Spitzer IV
Carlos E. R.
Clayton
Darryl Gregorash
Ed McCanless
Felix Miata
Fergus Wilde
HG
James Knott
John Andersen
Patrick Shanahan
Randall R Schulz