On Thursday 28 April 2005 21:06, Leen de Braal wrote:

Pieter Hulshoff zei:

...

As mentioned in the thread about my glorious cooling problems: I seem to be in a posession of a CPU that dies when it reaches 53-55C. Is it time to buy myself a new CPU, should I just get a better cooler, or should I change both while I'm at it? Any suggestions on a brand/type for the cooler?

Had this with an AMD2000+. I also thought it was the CPU-cooler, but it turned out to be the powersupply with a very slow going fan. The PS was getting much hotter than usual and this one froze everything, also because of this there was no airflow through the case. When this happened, CPU temp reached about 50C - 55C, getting me into changing the cooler after a while. Problems came back, but after changing the PS, CPU stays at 40-45, no freezes anymore.

I've already got a new 480W Tagan PSU, installed just a few weeks ago, so I'm kinda hoping that isn't it. :) From your story I gather though that dying at 50-55C isn't _that_ strange, so a new cooler sounds like a good idea. Regards, Pieter

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 14:28:54 -0500 Stan Glasoe wrote:

53-55C is considered safe operating temps for most CPUs these days.

Yes. My opterons are running in the range 46 - 56 day by day, and have operated like this for about 9 months. The maximum operating temperature for my chips is, I believe, 69 C. I guess I would be unhappy if the temperature went above 60C. - Richard -- Richard Kimber British General Election 2005 http://www.psr.keele.ac.uk/area/uk/ge05.htm

On Thursday 28 April 2005 23:28, "Rikard Johnels" wrote:

Its not a matter of a watchdog shutting the thing off when you reacha certain temp? Check BIOS, and/or eventual powersaved and the such for something that shuts the cpu down or throttles it

I didn't have this behaviour in the past, not even last summer when it was quite hot in here, and I haven't changed any such settings since then. Now it's possible my CPU fan is not doing his job as well as he should, but I seem to remember it working fine at these (and higher) temperatures in the past. Since I didn't change my BIOS/power settings, I don't think they're the issue. Regards, Pieter

Doug McGarrett wrote:

<snip>

Before spending a whole lot of money, see if you can't get some thermal grease, from Thermaloy or someone like them. Take off the heatsink, coat it with a LIGHT layer of thermal grease, and reinstall it on the CPU. Make sure ir fits down tight to the CPU, and is not cockeyed. Try the system again.

Bzzzt!! Sorry, but right after magnets, grease or oil of any kind is the absolute last thing you want to be putting inside your computer -- interiors of fans excepted. There is proper heatsink material on the market for uses like this. Pieter, as far as brand names of fans is concerned, I really have nothing to suggest. Maybe what is available here isn't even on the market where you are; all I know is that you don't want to look for anything other than airflow rates as your primary concern. If you have to get a noisy fan to get decent airflow, so be it -- you are protecting your computer, not your ears. The noise a fan produces is definitely not the first criterion on your list, at best it is second, and a poor second at that. Add up what all your computer equipment cost you, and ask yourself if it is worth the risk to save a few bucks on a fan that is quieter, but moves very little cooler air into your case. If you really need a reference point to start from, go to http://www.a-power.com/ (in Vancouver, BC, Canada). In the bottom left is a popup menu with a choice for "Heatsinks and Cooling Fans". That will at least give you something to start with, except for prices, which are usually much higher in Canada that anywhere else on the planet. All this talk of Athlons and heat makes me wonder if people on this list have forgotten that the Athlon is notorious, always has been, for the heat it produces. I don't know if you can get an AMD processor anymore that does not include a fan, and this is why.

On Friday 29 April 2005 07.13, Pieter Hulshoff wrote:

On Friday 29 April 2005 06:30, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

...

All this talk of Athlons and heat makes me wonder if people on this list have forgotten that the Athlon is notorious, always has been, for the heat it produces. I don't know if you can get an AMD processor anymore that does not include a fan, and this is why.

How are the fans that come with a "boxed" CPU? Are they any good, or should they be tossed out the door asap?

Regards,

Pieter

I've been running my Dual Celeron 433 with original boxed fans for a few years now. I even ran them overclocked (up around 500-550) a while, without so much as a hickup, just some 10 degrees Celcius hotter, thats about all. So in my case they have been more than adequate. I am running them at standard (433) today at some 32-35 degrees (light load) And i if press them, i end up around 50 C. And i have three disks running fairly warm inside that case too. I cant say for sure if newer and faster CPU's coming with boxed are any better or worse, but i suspect that depends on the box... A big culprit is the disks. They generate quite a lot of heat too. So one step to lower case temp's are to install diskfans, and extra case fans too. I would set a fast overly hot system up as follows: Two bigger fans for the case: One to puch cool air in, and one to pull warm out. Disk fans (if needed) and maybe a bigger heatsink/cpufan (if the boxed seems too small). Chipset fans for the bridges, and also a graphic chip cooler (if not supplied). Anything to get heat OF system is good in my point of view. Sure, it will be a bit noisier, but power costs... -- /Rikard " Sharing knowledge is the most fundamental act of friendship. Because it is a way you can give something without loosing something." -R. Stallman --------------------------------------------------------------- Rikard Johnels email : rikjoh@norweb.se Web : http://www.rikjoh.com/users/rikjoh Mob : +46 735 05 51 01 PGP : 0x461CEE56 ---------------------------------------------------------------

All this talk about CPU heat. On many PCs, the BIOS ACPI function not only allows software to display the CPU and motherboard temperatures and fan speeds, but also provides user-configurable temperature thresholds where the fans will switch from normal speed to high speed, and possibly produce an alert and/or shutdown when the temps get too high. Go through your BIOS setup menus and see if your computer has these features, and set them to sane values. I run gkrellm and lm_sensors on two SuSE 9.1 machines (Intel P4 1.6GHz and an Intel Celeron 2.8GHz), and it is amusing to see the CPU temps rise as much as 15-20 deg C when a couple of very CPU intensive apps run, and as soon as they are done, the temps drop right back down. -Ti -- Ti Kan http://www.amb.org/ti Vorsprung durch Technik

Pieter Hulshoff wrote:

In itself true, but I'm currently planning to take out the HDs from my current computer, and place them in that new case, with a new MB, RAM, etc. That leaves my old computer in a less warming state (only 1 HD), but it might still suffer from the heat problem. I'm just trying to find out if it's wise to invest in a new CPU or if a new set of fans will do the trick. That 300 euro case already comes with a reasonable set of built in fans, and excellent heat distribution.

The better the fan, the lower the temperature. If the temperature inside the case is kept down, then the processor can easily be kept even cooler, so go for a 30 euro processor fan :) My own processor does not get much above 40oC on a bad day. But you do have to put up with the noise - which is why the machines are in a rack outside in a nice cold garage ;) -- Lester Caine ----------------------------- L.S.Caine Electronic Services

Pieter Hulshoff wrote:

How are the fans that come with a "boxed" CPU? Are they any good, or should they be tossed out the door asap?

The one that came on my retail boxed 2.4G Celeron a year ago is quiet enough, but the one on my retail boxed P4 2.8G last month had an annoying howl, so I bought a low speed, large diameter "quiet" Masscool model from Newegg to replace it. Temps went up 1C-2C to max 43C. -- "Love your neighbor as yourself." Matthew 22:39 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/

Bryan Tyson wrote:

On Friday 29 April 2005 00:30, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

...

Doug McGarrett wrote:

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get some thermal grease, from Thermaloy or someone like them. Take off the heatsink, coat it with a LIGHT layer of thermal grease, and reinstall it on the CPU.

Bzzzt!!

Sorry, but right after magnets, grease or oil of any kind is the absolute last thing you want to be putting inside your computer -- interiors of fans excepted. There is proper heatsink material on the market for uses like this.

That's what he just told him - apply some thermal grease between the heatsink and CPU. I see nothing wrong with this advice, in fact I would do this if it were my computer.

When someone says "grease" I think of petroleum-based lubricants, which is what grease normally is. You can also get things like molybdenum dioxide, which aren't technically greases but sometimes are called that -- whatever you call it, any grease is a lubricant, and you do not want those inside your computer case, ever. Heatsink material is not grease. The stuff I use is an off-white substance almost like putty. When exposed to air or heat, it hardens. When applied between two surfaces, it forms a high heat-transfer bond between the two substances (fills in all the little holes), and hardens from the heat. Hardly a grease.

The Friday 2005-04-29 at 16:08 -0600, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

...

That's what he just told him - apply some thermal grease between the heatsink and CPU. I see nothing wrong with this advice, in fact I would do this if it were my computer.

When someone says "grease" I think of petroleum-based lubricants, which is what grease normally is. You can also get things like molybdenum dioxide, which aren't technically greases but sometimes are called that -- whatever you call it, any grease is a lubricant, and you do not want those inside your computer case, ever.

Heatsink material is not grease. The stuff I use is an off-white substance almost like putty. When exposed to air or heat, it hardens. When applied between two surfaces, it forms a high heat-transfer bond between the two substances (fills in all the little holes), and hardens from the heat. Hardly a grease.

The thermal compound that was normally used in electronics, even before processors needed heatsinks, was called "silicon grease", and most certainly stayed as a grease even years after applying it to transistors heatsinks and such. I must have a tube of it somewhere. That's probably why modern compounds are still named "grease", even if they aren't. On the other hand, I have seen a PC working happily submerged completely in vegetable oil (sunflower seed oil, in fact - they didn't though of using transformers oil). Messy stuff. I'd hate to be the chap doing changes to the motherboard. :-p That was two years ago or roundabouts, I wonder if it is still running. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

On Tuesday 03 May 2005 16:33, Peter B Van Campen wrote:

On Tuesday 03 May 2005 14:45, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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The Friday 2005-04-29 at 16:08 -0600, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

...

...

That's what he just told him - apply some thermal grease between the

****************************************snip***************

...

...

between the two substances (fills in all the little holes), and hardens from the heat. Hardly a grease.

The thermal compound that was normally used in electronics, even before processors needed heatsinks, was called "silicon grease", and most certainly stayed as a grease even years after applying it to transistors heatsinks and such. I must have a tube of it somewhere.

That's probably why modern compounds are still named "grease", even if they aren't.

Right on Carlos! Thermal compound is usually a 'doped' up silicone grease. The most common dopant is Zinc-oxide powder. <snip>

And zinc oxide paste. You buy it in the drugstore. Your mon used to smear this white paste on your nose to keep it from getting sunburned. Works fine - Have used it for years. Bob S.

On 5/4/05, James Knott wrote:

B. Stia wrote:

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On Tuesday 03 May 2005 16:33, Peter B Van Campen wrote:

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On Tuesday 03 May 2005 14:45, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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The Friday 2005-04-29 at 16:08 -0600, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

...

...

That's what he just told him - apply some thermal grease between the

****************************************snip***************

...

...

between the two substances (fills in all the little holes), and hardens from the heat. Hardly a grease.

The thermal compound that was normally used in electronics, even before processors needed heatsinks, was called "silicon grease", and most certainly stayed as a grease even years after applying it to transistors heatsinks and such. I must have a tube of it somewhere.

That's probably why modern compounds are still named "grease", even if they aren't.

Right on Carlos! Thermal compound is usually a 'doped' up silicone grease. The most common dopant is Zinc-oxide powder.

<snip>

And zinc oxide paste. You buy it in the drugstore. Your mon used to smear this white paste on your nose to keep it from getting sunburned.

And also on the other end, for diaper rash. ;-)

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

Hmmm, is that true? About zinc oxide paste being used ofr heatsinks? If so the heatsink compound manufacturers are making a massive, massive profit. Zinc oxide cream/paste is very cheap from chemists shops/baby shops (pharmacies in the US). -- Take care. Kevan Farmer 34 Hill Street Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR

On Wednesday 04 May 2005 08:56, James Knott wrote:

Kevanf1 wrote:

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On 5/4/05, James Knott wrote:

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B. Stia wrote:

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On Tuesday 03 May 2005 16:33, Peter B Van Campen wrote:

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On Tuesday 03 May 2005 14:45, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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The Friday 2005-04-29 at 16:08 -0600, Darryl Gregorash wrote: >>That's what he just told him - apply some thermal grease >>between the

****************************************snip***************

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...

<snip>

And zinc oxide paste. You buy it in the drugstore. Your mon used to smear this white paste on your nose to keep it from getting sunburned.

And also on the other end, for diaper rash. ;-)

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

Hmmm, is that true? About zinc oxide paste being used ofr heatsinks? If so the heatsink compound manufacturers are making a massive, massive profit. Zinc oxide cream/paste is very cheap from chemists shops/baby shops (pharmacies in the US).

It could be that it's made specifically for such use and that the other stuff contains ingredients that are not suitable for electronic devices. At least your computer won't get diaper rash. ;-)

http://www.heatsink-guide.com/content.php?content=compound.shtml

Hi, NO NO NO!!! The medicinal zinc oxide is made on a cosmetic base oil or creame. You would never want to put any grease or oil from a vegetable or petroleum base in your electronics! They are not thermally stable and the vegetable oils can turn rancid. They also have very poor insulating qualities compared to silicone. Good URL tho. PeterB

On 5/4/05, James Knott wrote:

Kevanf1 wrote:

Also, please don't reply to both the list and sender. One copy is enough.

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

Oops, was that me James? Sorry if it was. I have to cut and paste the return using GMail otherwise the reply automatically goes to teh sender not the list. I may forget to delete one or the other sometimes. -- Take care. Kevan Farmer 34 Hill Street Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR

Doug McGarrett wrote:

/snip/

The thermal grease, from Thermaloy, is _specifically_ made for this application. Practically every heatsink in any power supply or audio amplifier, or professionally assembled computer, will have this

I know this kind of stuff is available. I've only mentioned this kind of material how many times now? Don't call it a "grease"; it isn't.

Before you spend any money: carefully open your computer and remove the fuzz that has accumulated on/in your heat sink, fan, in the power supply, in the vent ports/slots etc. If you can remove the cpu heat sink, hose it off and let it dry (after having removed the fan!!!). Clean the contact surface from old paste(sometimes that's a thermal tape instead of paste), re-attach the fan to the heat sink, wipe off the old compound from the cpu, put a small dab of new thermal compound on the cpu and re-attach the heat sink. Be extra careful, some designs require a lot of force and a slip of the screwdriver can wipe out the mobo. After all that, your system should be good until it either gets dirty again or until a fan dies. Do keep your thermal shut down protection in your bios, but you could bump it up to 60 degrees. That's where I keep mine. good luck, d. On Sunday 01 May 2005 01:56, James Knott wrote:

Darryl Gregorash wrote:

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Doug McGarrett wrote:

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/snip/

The thermal grease, from Thermaloy, is _specifically_ made for this application. Practically every heatsink in any power supply or audio amplifier, or professionally assembled computer, will have this

I know this kind of stuff is available. I've only mentioned this kind of material how many times now?

Don't call it a "grease"; it isn't.

I guess it depends on how you use it. ;-)

Actually, check http://www.intek-uk.com/TCGheatdata.htm