On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 08:20:14AM +0100, Fred wrote:

Le Mardi 22 Mars 2005 07:31, Allen a écrit :

...

I use SUSE every day, and I am not afraid to defend it against people who think it's a wuss distro because it has a GUI tool set / application like YAST2.... To me it seems YAST2 is the absolute best admin tool ever made for ANY OS. errr... it's definitely the slower admin tool that exist for installing new RPMs ! What's the point of rewriting all the system config even if the package doesn't influence some parts of the system config ?

To be able to have the entire system at your control in ONE application? I think I'll take the waiting for it to finish writing the whole system config.

Let's say you like D4X and want to install it. Open Konqueror with this link : ftp://rpmfind.net/linux/SuSE-Linux/i386/9.2/suse/i586/d4x-2.5.0-2.1.i586.rpm

click on install with Yast

1- Yast starts (30seconds) 2- D4X is installed (20 seconds) 3- Yast update ALL the system configuration (Apache, X, Sound, etc) (30 seconds)

Total : 80 seconds to install for a small RPM package of 2,53Mo !

And it's getting worse if you have several RPM to install, system config will >e updated each time :-(

I don't want to have to search around for it. That was my point of this post, to get something into YAST2 that lets me just search for it in YAST2, download it and install it without dependency hell. http://www.eterm.org Go there and download the RPMs and make THAT work fast. Not so fast huh? With my application, you'd type Eterm in the search and it would install it for you. Mainly I just want something that could rival Free BSD's pkg_add -r tool. Anyone who has used that knows it is great.

Ok, don't tell me "use apt" ! I want my grand mother to use Yast to manage her RPMs so she's not gonna learn apt command lines

I think I pointed out that it could be an add on package not in the default install..... You know, like gaim.

(snipp)

...

On Free BSD I can type pkgadd -r naim

or "urpmi" on Mandrake

And nothing on SUSE.

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On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 09:50:19AM +0200, SuSE Ground Zero wrote: Can you JUST reply to the list? I'm getting two copies.

Well... I got smaller expectations, like keeping SuSE brand alive. I think Novell is already reducing speed towards linux devel in SuSE prefering to get down to zero the brand and see SuSE linux just as Novell linux and so on. The presence of SuSE is weaker by the day.

Novell and IBM both are adding to SUSE Linux, it's not going anywhere. Hell, SUSE Enterprise just got EAL4 making it OK for Gov use.

At this time asking for new services is IMHO inappropiate.

Uhhhh yea... And how else do you expect to get what you want? Companies pay a lot of money for surveys to see what a customer wants. I send an email and tell them. If you don't like it don't read it.

Allen wrote:

Ohhhhh a top poster!

...

I'm hoping someone who works at SUSE / Novell can read this, these are things I'd like to see in the next release of SUSE Linux.

I use SUSE every day, and I am not afraid to defend it against people who think it's a wuss distro because it has a GUI tool set / application like YAST2.... To me it seems YAST2 is the absolute best admin tool ever made for ANY OS.

I would love to see SUSE have something added into YAST2, like a new module, for packages. Free BSD and Debian and Slackware all have a tool now that is coming with the OS on the CDs, that allows you to install packages from the internet by typing a line in your terminal.

Now I know tools like this for SUSE exist, but I'd like to see something more. Debian has apt-get, Free BSD has portupdate and pkg_add -r ...OK here is my idea, I'd like to be able to open YAST, click on a module that has a search bar, type in, for example, Eterm, and it searches a list of servers that have Eterm for SUSE Linux, and then gives me the option to download and install it with all dependencies.

On Free BSD I can type pkgadd -r naim

It will go online, find naim, download it an all dependencies, and install it, then I type naim on my console, and it loads up. I'd like to be able to do this on SUSE.

Adding it into YAST2 would be great and keep it simple. Now obviously this kind of a thing can't be done overnight and would need a lot of testing and take a while, but it would be nice to be considered at least.

And of course keeping it so it can work in the text mode version of YAST2 so if you don't have X loaded or you're doing admin tasks over SSH you can still do this.

So SUSE / Novell, please add this into SUSE. I'm sure others would like it as I am thinking of the ease of use it would add.

Think about it, you open up YAST2, click on a module that pops up and you type in what application you want, and it looks for it on the internet and installs it with all dependencies, and then it's ready for use.

You could have the UI set up so that you can type in something if you know exacly what you want, or even make it so you can browse extra packages available that wouldn't fit on the DVDs and CDs or something.

Think about when GNOMe and KDE have a new version out, SUSE could make it easy for veryone to update that. And besides, it would help take away some of the Gentoo users when they realise SUSE is not only better but has one command package installs too.

It's something I've always loved about Free BSD. typing pkgadd -r naim and it dowenloads naim for me and installs it, I love it.

Oh and the Debian users would more likely try SUSE too!

Just think how you could add all these things to servers, and then XXMS skins, packages, and for people who came from Debian, they can do all their package tasks from this.

And for people who don't like it for some reason or another you could have it as a seperate package that isn't selected by the default install, so people who want it can just select it when they do a custom install and install it from the DVDs and then use it.

This would be awesome, because I really don't like APT. I like Swaret but only for updates, apt-get I don't like all that well (The packages are either old as crap or they dont' have the ones I want, Free BSD's method however works wonders).

-Allen / Gore.

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On Tue, 2005-03-22 at 01:48 -0700, JD. Brown wrote: <snip>

...

...

I know tools like this for SUSE exist, but I'd like to see something more. Debian has apt-get, Free BSD has portupdate and pkg_add -r ...OK

http://linux01.gwdg.de/apt4rpm/

This Apt-get for SUSE only works from the command line currently. Having more Apt-get repositories for SUSE would be great, In the likes of Gentoo,Fedora,Debian,FreeBSD, etc, etc.

"Apt-get for SUSE" works from the command line and has two gui interfaces, synaptic and kynaptic. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 * Only reply to the list please* "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge

On Tuesday 22 March 2005 08:19, SuSE Ground Zero wrote: <snip>

Just a little move out of european focus ... now primary ftp sites are in US.

News flashes ... not yet. SuSE dying ... oh yeah ... soon it will become a threat to american way of life and business, look at their president.

Keep your political views out of the list.

On Tue March 22 2005 2:16 pm, JD. Brown wrote: [snip]

As far as this threat to the "american way of life". I say bring it on. I love it to become a threat over here in the states. I want Microsoft to fall down and hurt themselves. Severely, I might add.

NO ONE wants that anymore than I do. It's the most immoral corp. in the USA, IMHO, and deserves to fail BIG TIME. Fred -- The only bug free software from MickySoft is still shrink-wrapped in their warehouse..."

On Tue March 22 2005 2:56 pm, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

NO ONE wants that anymore than I do. It's the most immoral corp. in the USA, IMHO, and deserves to fail BIG TIME.

Oh, there are far more immoral corporations in These United States. Most any health insurer is easily being more immoral than Microsoft. Ditto for mining, chemical and petroleum companies. A little closer to the same sphere, ChoicePoint is on the nefarious side of Microsfot. And there are many, many others.

Microsoft's a dirty dealer and they've clearly violated laws in many of the countries where they do business, they're not doing nearly as much damage as many other corporations.

I guess it's a matter of perception - I perceive them differently. :) Balmer is in particular a dishonest sort....worse than Gates. Fred -- The only bug free software from MickySoft is still shrink-wrapped in their warehouse..."

On Mar 22, 2005, at 21:18, CorvusE wrote:

Let's talk about cigarette companies for a moment. If knowing your product is deadly and making it more addictive anyway isn't evil, I don't know what is!

Perhaps people who willingly smoke and then gleefully sue the tobacco companies? Or maybe governments who enjoy the sale tax windfalls in the first place? So many evil choices 8^) Cheers -- PA, Onnay Equitursay http://alt.textdrive.com/

Op dinsdag 22 maart 2005 21:25, schreef Randall R Schulz:

On Tuesday 22 March 2005 12:18, CorvusE wrote:

...

On Tuesday 22 March 2005 02:56 pm, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

Microsoft's a dirty dealer and they've clearly violated laws in many of the countries where they do business, they're not doing nearly as much damage as many other corporations.

Let's talk about cigarette companies for a moment.  If knowing your product is deadly and making it more addictive anyway isn't evil, I don't know what is! --

Oy! How could I have overlooked them in coming up with examples of bad actors??

...

CorvusE

Time to go the off topic list.... -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless

On Mar 22, 2005, at 20:56, Randall R Schulz wrote:

Oh, there are far more immoral corporations

L'occasion fait le larron... http://www.vicefund.com/ Cheers -- PA, Onnay Equitursay http://alt.textdrive.com/

On Tue March 22 2005 3:12 pm, PA wrote:

On Mar 22, 2005, at 20:39, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

NO ONE wants that anymore than I do. It's the most immoral corp. in the USA, IMHO, and deserves to fail BIG TIME.

You are just being jealous.

No, being moral. Fred -- The only bug free software from MickySoft is still shrink-wrapped in their warehouse..."

On Tuesday 22 March 2005 14:27, PA wrote:

On Mar 22, 2005, at 21:24, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

...

You are just being jealous.

No, being moral.

Righteous?

Why are you trying so hard to put words in his mouth? Besides, this topic needs to finally get to the OT list, it's got ridiculous.

http://linux01.gwdg.de/apt4rpm/

This Apt-get for SUSE only works from the command line currently. Having more Apt-get repositories for SUSE would be great, In the likes of Gentoo,Fedora,Debian,FreeBSD, etc, etc.

JD

No it doesn't, you can use synaptic. Have a look at the apt for SUSE how to http://linux01.gwdg.de/apt4rpm/ Mike

On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 09:56:51AM +0100, Hartmut Meyer wrote:

Hi,

On Tuesday 22 March 2005 07:31, Allen wrote:

...

I'm hoping someone who works at SUSE / Novell can read this, these are things I'd like to see in the next release of SUSE Linux.

Next release? _Way_ too late for that.

I know, I was thinking maybe SUSE 10 or 11 though. Believe me I know it isn't something you just pop in and it's done.

Anyway: this list is good for discussions/help around SUSE Linux bit - not for providing feedback to SUSE (since this list is not systematically monitored by SUSE/Novell staff and those of us that read here typically do it in their leasure time).

I know man, I just wanted feed back form others. I can't be the only one that wants to see SUSE have a bit of a tool to compete with Free BSD's pkg_add -r system which works very well. I'd just like to see that on SUSE.

Use

http://www.suse.de/feedback

instead.

Greetings from Stuhr hartmut

Mich SUSE Fur Alle Toggen. :) (My German is REALLY bad but that should be right). Thaks for all the replies except of course the whining because of Novell. I have yet to see a SUSE employee complain about Novell.

On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 08:25:22PM +0100, Richard Bos wrote:

Op dinsdag 22 maart 2005 07:31, schreef Allen:

...

This would be awesome, because I really don't like APT. I like Swaret but only for updates, apt-get I don't like all that well (The packages are either old as crap or they dont' have the ones I want, Free BSD's method however works wonders).

Do you refer to suse's apt, or apt in general. In case of suse it looks like you have not checked the packages good enought as the packages in apt repository for suse are just linked to the packages provided by suse. If they are crap in the apt repository, they are in YOU as well....

I don't like Apt at all. I like pkg_add from Free BSD which is a great way of getting new packages. It seems some of what I was saying was mis read: OK, Free BSD: #pkg_add -r naim I press enter, it downloads naim and installs it. I'd like to have this on SUSE. That's all. It would be a great way to add packages that SUSE doesn't have on the DVDs. Then you could just upgrade those packages you add manually as to not make it a pain in the ass on SUSE.

Besides the packages provided by suse, the apt repository provided packages from 3rd parties as well.

Please explain, why you dislike apt as it provides what you ask for. Just use synaptic as a frontend.

-- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless

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On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 09:51:38PM -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Allen [03-22-05 21:47]:

...

#pkg_add -r naim

I press enter, it downloads naim and installs it.

Yeah, I guess it's much harder on SuSE.

apt install naim

Try apt install Eterm. I added a few to my list of sources for download and it couldn't find it. The main point of this though wasn't on which was better, but to get one added into SUSE instead of downloading and installing it yourself.

-- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery

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* Allen [03-23-05 02:24]:

Try apt install Eterm. I added a few to my list of sources for download and it couldn't find it. The main point of this though wasn't on which was better, but to get one added into SUSE instead of downloading and installing it yourself.

wahoo:~ # apt install Eterm Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done Selecting eterm for 'Eterm' eterm is already the newest version. 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 removed and 1 not upgraded. wahoo:~ # -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery

* Allen [03-23-05 08:34]: ...

I used it and it wouldn't load Eterm. Again this isn't about APT or something else being better. I think I pointed that out in my other message, this is about getting one of them to be added to SUSE.

Then *why* provide an example of a perceived failure of apt to do what you desire when the example merely shows that you have not provided the sources for the desired package(s)? You are inferring by example that apt will not or can not do what you require. -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery

On Thursday 24 March 2005 06:34, Allen wrote:

On Wed, Mar 23, 2005 at 09:21:59AM -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Allen [03-23-05 08:34]: ...

...

I used it and it wouldn't load Eterm. Again this isn't about APT or something else being better. I think I pointed that out in my other message, this is about getting one of them to be added to SUSE.

Then *why* provide an example of a perceived failure of apt to do what you desire when the example merely shows that you have not provided the sources for the desired package(s)? You are inferring by example that apt will not or can not do what you require.

Probably a mistake on my part. I haven't eaten or slept in two days.

-

...

Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery

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I cant see why we would want to include something like that in Suse an RedHat-ism if ever there was no thanks .. Pete . -- If Bill Gates had gotten LAID at High School do YOU think there would be a Microsoft ? Of course NOT ! You gotta spend a lot of time at your school Locker stuffing underware up your ass to think , I am going to take on the worlds Computer Industry -------:heard on Cyber Radio.:-------

On Thursday 24 March 2005 18:43, Peter Nikolic wrote:

On Thursday 24 March 2005 06:34, Allen wrote:

...

On Wed, Mar 23, 2005 at 09:21:59AM -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Allen [03-23-05 08:34]: ...

...

I used it and it wouldn't load Eterm. Again this isn't about APT or something else being better. I think I pointed that out in my other message, this is about getting one of them to be added to SUSE.

Then *why* provide an example of a perceived failure of apt to do what you desire when the example merely shows that you have not provided the sources for the desired package(s)? You are inferring by example that apt will not or can not do what you require.

Probably a mistake on my part. I haven't eaten or slept in two days.

-

...

Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery

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I cant see why we would want to include something like that in Suse an RedHat-ism if ever there was no thanks ..

Pete .

-- If Bill Gates had gotten LAID at High School do YOU think there would be a Microsoft ? Of course NOT !

Of course you know: On the night of his wedding, his wife said "Now I know why you called it microsoft."

You gotta spend a lot of time at your school Locker stuffing underware up your ass to think , I am going to take on the worlds Computer Industry

-------:heard on Cyber Radio.:-------

On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 08:40:02AM +0000, Fergus Wilde wrote:

On Thursday 24 March 2005 06:34, Allen wrote:

...

On Wed, Mar 23, 2005 at 09:21:59AM -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Allen [03-23-05 08:34]: ...

...

I used it and it wouldn't load Eterm. Again this isn't about APT or something else being better. I think I pointed that out in my other message, this is about getting one of them to be added to SUSE.

Then *why* provide an example of a perceived failure of apt to do what you desire when the example merely shows that you have not provided the sources for the desired package(s)? You are inferring by example that apt will not or can not do what you require.

Probably a mistake on my part. I haven't eaten or slept in two days.

Good grief man, eat a sandwich and go to bed at once! Your computing experience will improve and you will stay sane. And stop doing whatever is

I ate today, I finally got to bed at 5 PM and when I woke up I was half hungry which is rare.

keeping you awake ... now, never say this list doesn't provide good

I couldn't go to sleep, I couldn't sleep the night before and I had to be up early for my Uncle's funeral and I was helping carry the casket so I had no choice in going to sleep. I think I got this (..) close to OD on coffee.

...

-

...

Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery

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-- Fergus Wilde Chetham's Library Long Millgate Manchester M3 1SB

Tel: +44 161 834 7961 Fax: +44 161 839 5797

http://www.chethams.org.uk

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On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 09:45:23PM -0500, Allen wrote:

I don't like Apt at all. I like pkg_add from Free BSD which is a great way of getting new packages.

That's what you said in your previous email as well. The question is what you dislike about apt, can you explain?

It seems some of what I was saying was mis read:

OK, Free BSD:

#pkg_add -r naim

I press enter, it downloads naim and installs it.

I'd like to have this on SUSE. That's all. It would be a great way to add packages that SUSE doesn't have on the DVDs. Then you could just upgrade those packages you add manually as to not make it a pain in the ass on SUSE.

What naim project (url)? -- Richard