[opensuse] RAID questions
I've just installed SUSE 10.2, using RAID 5, on an IBM Netfinity x232 server. I created one small partition for /boot, a RAID array over 4 disks for / and a 2nd RAID for swap. I assume I could replicate the /boot partition across all 4 drives and add them to GRUB. If I want LVM, do I create a RAID array first? Or can I create both RAID and LVM in LVM? Also, in the on line docs I found the following: "Check the file /proc/mdstats to find out whether a RAID partition has been destroyed. In the event of a system failure, shut down your Linux system and replace the defective hard disk with a new one partitioned the same way. Then restart your system and enter the command mdadm /dev/mdX --add /dev/sdX. Replace 'X' with your particular device identifiers. This integrates the hard disk automatically into the RAID system and fully reconstructs it." My system has hot swappable drives. Does it still require a shut down before replacing a drive? tnx jk -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2007-06-23 at 07:58 -0400, James Knott wrote:
I've just installed SUSE 10.2, using RAID 5, on an IBM Netfinity x232 server. I created one small partition for /boot, a RAID array over 4 disks for / and a 2nd RAID for swap. I assume I could replicate the /boot partition across all 4 drives and add them to GRUB.
I think you should. Not only /boot, but also the MBR part of grub, so that you can boot from any of the four disks. I'm not sure exactly of the best manner to do this; dd could do, but it is not just a single sector, I mean, not just the mbr. And overwriting the mbr overwrites the partition table. (I assume you mean software raid, of course) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGfRq1tTMYHG2NR9URAlOFAJ92O81YZy7+pXdX8K9Gt/+m+yWBaACdHeKG ikNEqDqAe+S32o0o6LwROnc= =uj90 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Saturday 2007-06-23 at 07:58 -0400, James Knott wrote:
I've just installed SUSE 10.2, using RAID 5, on an IBM Netfinity x232 server. I created one small partition for /boot, a RAID array over 4 disks for / and a 2nd RAID for swap. I assume I could replicate the /boot partition across all 4 drives and add them to GRUB.
I think you should. Not only /boot, but also the MBR part of grub, so that you can boot from any of the four disks. I'm not sure exactly of the best manner to do this;
IMHO, the best and easiest way is through the grub command line, i.e grub grub> root (hd0,1) grub> setup (hd0) grub> root (hd1,1) grub> setup (hd1) ...etc, then grub> quit hd0,1 corresponds to first hd, second partition (assuming swap is the first partition, adjust as needed. Then add corresponding entries in menu.lst, and add a fallback #, with #= the menu entry of the second disk, etc. Do a search for RAID+GRUB for a step by step set of instructions. HTH. -- Joe Morris Registered Linux user 231871 running openSUSE 10.2 x86_64 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Joe Morris (NTM) wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Saturday 2007-06-23 at 07:58 -0400, James Knott wrote:
I've just installed SUSE 10.2, using RAID 5, on an IBM Netfinity x232 server. I created one small partition for /boot, a RAID array over 4 disks for / and a 2nd RAID for swap. I assume I could replicate the /boot partition across all 4 drives and add them to GRUB. I think you should. Not only /boot, but also the MBR part of grub, so that you can boot from any of the four disks. I'm not sure exactly of the best manner to do this; IMHO, the best and easiest way is through the grub command line, i.e grub
grub> root (hd0,1) grub> setup (hd0) grub> root (hd1,1) grub> setup (hd1) ...etc, then grub> quit hd0,1 corresponds to first hd, second partition (assuming swap is the first partition, adjust as needed. Then add corresponding entries in menu.lst, and add a fallback #, with #= the menu entry of the second disk, etc. Do a search for RAID+GRUB for a step by step set of instructions. HTH.
I asked my boss if it would be worth adding a few hundred Euros in cost to get hot-plug and hardware raid where the only action neccessary for a disk replacement would be to stand in front of the server and simply plug in the replacement for the broken server. That way my stand-in would only need to know that the disk is broken and how to push the button to pop out the disk and then plug in the new disk. He immediately saw the light and signed the order for the server with hardware raid and hot-plug disks. I have little experience with software raid, but these steps don't entice me very much to start playing around with it. Compared to the costs of a standing server and the risk of a mistyped command on the command line when your blood pressure is already elevated due to the alert situation I am not convinced it is worth the hassle. It might be different for a server or workstation at home where cost is the most important factor. -- Sandy List replies only please! Please address PMs to: news-reply2 (@) japantest (.) homelinux (.) com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2007-06-23 at 16:19 +0200, Sandy Drobic wrote: ...
He immediately saw the light and signed the order for the server with hardware raid and hot-plug disks.
Lucky you :-p
I have little experience with software raid, but these steps don't entice me very much to start playing around with it. Compared to the costs of a standing server and the risk of a mistyped command on the command line when your blood pressure is already elevated due to the alert situation I am not convinced it is worth the hassle.
It might be different for a server or workstation at home where cost is the most important factor.
Exactly :-) Then there are many different situations. I have been in businesses where the cent is not trivial. Sometimes I have had to choose between getting my salary or getting some hardware instead, or getting a cheaper hardware as a compromise. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGfTYvtTMYHG2NR9URArDWAJ4ppVidlRC8xCmqfq+SV6CB+geuSgCfUxtG IMjX5oiq+Rt6Ba9EesSIiEk= =R6zW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
Then there are many different situations. I have been in businesses where the cent is not trivial. Sometimes I have had to choose between getting my salary or getting some hardware instead
So, what hardware did you get? ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2007-06-23 at 16:32 -0400, James Knott wrote:
Then there are many different situations. I have been in businesses where the cent is not trivial. Sometimes I have had to choose between getting my salary or getting some hardware instead So, what hardware did you get? ;-)
We opted for cheaper hardware, and we postponed our salaries for months in order to survive. Instead of buying nice 19" rack industrial rated PCs, we used a 19" tray with an office computer on it instead. Instead of using 19" rack monitors, we used 14" office monitor screwed somehow into an aluminum sheet, which we then screwed into the 19" rack. And so on. Cheap solutions. At the end I found another job and jumped boat. Finding jobs is not always easy or even possible. If you have a job that pays your needs, count your blessings. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGfaE3tTMYHG2NR9URAqv/AKCEUIwah3Iq4g8uTCIQyBWGxB3l8gCeLqAq rldHeEQZPzdvRjF4k2p0iiQ= =oV2W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Saturday 2007-06-23 at 16:32 -0400, James Knott wrote:
Then there are many different situations. I have been in businesses where the cent is not trivial. Sometimes I have had to choose between getting my salary or getting some hardware instead So, what hardware did you get? ;-)
We opted for cheaper hardware, and we postponed our salaries for months in order to survive.
Instead of buying nice 19" rack industrial rated PCs, we used a 19" tray with an office computer on it instead. Instead of using 19" rack monitors, we used 14" office monitor screwed somehow into an aluminum sheet, which we then screwed into the 19" rack. And so on.
That is what you do when you must have something and can't afford it. A miserable situation that I encountered as well. :-/
At the end I found another job and jumped boat. Finding jobs is not always easy or even possible. If you have a job that pays your needs, count your blessings.
If you find yourself in such a situation it is the most important conclusion you have to face, that you must find another job as the first priority and anything else next. After having gone through it once I learned this thoroughly and took it to heart. Congrats for finding another job. (^-^) -- Sandy List replies only please! Please address PMs to: news-reply2 (@) japantest (.) homelinux (.) com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Saturday 2007-06-23 at 16:19 +0200, Sandy Drobic wrote:
...
He immediately saw the light and signed the order for the server with hardware raid and hot-plug disks.
Lucky you :-p
Actually, I do consider myself lucky. (^-^)
It might be different for a server or workstation at home where cost is the most important factor.
Then there are many different situations. I have been in businesses where the cent is not trivial. Sometimes I have had to choose between getting my salary or getting some hardware instead, or getting a cheaper hardware as a compromise.
Often, when your boss or your client can't afford to pay for the most reasonable solution for such a lowlevel expense, this is an important sign to look for business or a job somewhere else. My previous company went south financially, but I learned to do the very best with the resources I had available. Then I had to unlearn all of that when I joined my current company. They don't mind to spend some money as long as they get their worth out of the expense. It really took a long time for me to change my mindset. -- Sandy List replies only please! Please address PMs to: news-reply2 (@) japantest (.) homelinux (.) com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2007-06-23 at 22:54 +0200, Sandy Drobic wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Saturday 2007-06-23 at 16:19 +0200, Sandy Drobic wrote:
...
He immediately saw the light and signed the order for the server with hardware raid and hot-plug disks.
Lucky you :-p
Actually, I do consider myself lucky. (^-^)
It might be different for a server or workstation at home where cost is the most important factor.
Then there are many different situations. I have been in businesses where the cent is not trivial. Sometimes I have had to choose between getting my salary or getting some hardware instead, or getting a cheaper hardware as a compromise.
Often, when your boss or your client can't afford to pay for the most reasonable solution for such a lowlevel expense, this is an important sign to look for business or a job somewhere else.
My previous company went south financially, but I learned to do the very best with the resources I had available. Then I had to unlearn all of that when I joined my current company. They don't mind to spend some money as long as they get their worth out of the expense. It really took a long time for me to change my mindset.
If the business (like for example insurance) acquires lots of data continually then the cost of downtime due to a disc failure is huge compared with the extra dollars for RAID with Hotswap. With hardware RAID5, if the yellow light comes on a HDD, you simply remove the bad disk, plug in the replacement, and watch for the new disc's lights to settle while it syncs up. Eventually the light goes out and flashes green only when the system flushes its buffers. During all this time the users keep working productively -- it's simply wonderful! No question in my mind that it is a Good Thing. John O'Gorman
-- Sandy
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John O'Gorman wrote:
If the business (like for example insurance) acquires lots of data continually then the cost of downtime due to a disc failure is huge compared with the extra dollars for RAID with Hotswap.
True. In most cases though the consequences of downtime might not be so apparent. That is the trouble. Once you start counting everything from delayed work of the users to the time of the admin better spend on productive work instead of repairing a miserable machine and many more things like your reputation if clients have to call for you notice that a machine broke down again, costs for downtime become prohibitive even for small companies.
With hardware RAID5, if the yellow light comes on a HDD, you simply remove the bad disk, plug in the replacement, and watch for the new disc's lights to settle while it syncs up. Eventually the light goes out and flashes green only when the system flushes its buffers. During all this time the users keep working productively -- it's simply wonderful!
No question in my mind that it is a Good Thing.
True again. All my systems are set up to complain if something is seriously wrong. In earlier times I could simply log in to the servers every day to check the logs and have a look at the machine. Now I prefer to have all servers report via email if some trouble occurs, either ServerView for the FSC machines or some scripts for the remaining noname machines. Too many servers and services to do it manually anymore. -- Sandy List replies only please! Please address PMs to: news-reply2 (@) japantest (.) homelinux (.) com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 23 June 2007 16:36, John O'Gorman wrote:
...
If the business (like for example insurance) acquires lots of data continually then the cost of downtime due to a disc failure is huge compared with the extra dollars for RAID with Hotswap.
Likewise for all customer-facing services. People get cranky—rightfully so—when they can't get the services you promise. They're especially irate when they're paying for those services. And when those services are part of your revenue stream (as in, e.g., on-line retailing), then everyone involved is upset when things go down. When I worked for an Amazon subsidiary (and not even one in a revenue stream), we were on call 24 hours per day. If the monitoring software detected a serious problem (one that was not being handled by the redundancy in the configuration), we got paged. (Never again...) Redundancy is the _only_ way to provide high reliability services.
...
John O'Gorman
Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2007-06-23 at 22:54 +0200, Sandy Drobic wrote:
Often, when your boss or your client can't afford to pay for the most reasonable solution for such a lowlevel expense, this is an important sign to look for business or a job somewhere else.
Absolutely. If possible, of course.
My previous company went south financially, but I learned to do the very best with the resources I had available. Then I had to unlearn all of that when I joined my current company. They don't mind to spend some money as long as they get their worth out of the expense. It really took a long time for me to change my mindset.
One of my jobs some time ago was with a nice and big company, with a five digit employee list and a long history, for which expense was no problem. I did have to change my mindset. Instead of going to the shop and buying things, I had to go trough the bureaucracy, which told me that their suppliers said that "there is no such thing as "SuSE 7.2 in our list". Good grief. They too went bankrupt. No, the ignorance of their bureaucracy about Linux didn't have to do with it: after all, it was them who had showed me how important Linux was, and it could be used for serious and important things. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGfa64tTMYHG2NR9URAh9UAJ9HmXGFLjzMVepFaminbf7RwdX0IgCfdO3r /VpiKAHPkTqIdQ+de9Lgwn0= =bY7y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Sandy Drobic wrote:
I asked my boss if it would be worth adding a few hundred Euros in cost to get hot-plug and hardware raid where the only action neccessary for a disk replacement would be to stand in front of the server and simply plug in the replacement for the broken server. That way my stand-in would only need to know that the disk is broken and how to push the button to pop out the disk and then plug in the new disk.
He immediately saw the light and signed the order for the server with hardware raid and hot-plug disks.
I have little experience with software raid, but these steps don't entice me very much to start playing around with it. Compared to the costs of a standing server and the risk of a mistyped command on the command line when your blood pressure is already elevated due to the alert situation I am not convinced it is worth the hassle.
It might be different for a server or workstation at home where cost is the most important factor.
I bought this server "refurbished" for only $150 (CDN). It also makes a great space heater! ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
James Knott wrote:
Sandy Drobic wrote:
I have little experience with software raid, but these steps don't entice me very much to start playing around with it. Compared to the costs of a standing server and the risk of a mistyped command on the command line when your blood pressure is already elevated due to the alert situation I am not convinced it is worth the hassle.
It might be different for a server or workstation at home where cost is the most important factor.
I bought this server "refurbished" for only $150 (CDN). It also makes a great space heater! ;-)
I also bought my current main server here at home used at Ebay. It's an old FSC Primergy 470. I just added some bigger SCSI-disks and a second CPU. It is still running here after years of service despite the high temperatures in summer. But no software raid either, only true hardware raid and hot-plug. (^-^) Better used and a bit older but professional hardware than fast but fragile hardware. -- Sandy List replies only please! Please address PMs to: news-reply2 (@) japantest (.) homelinux (.) com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Sandy Drobic wrote:
James Knott wrote:
Sandy Drobic wrote:
I have little experience with software raid, but these steps don't entice me very much to start playing around with it. Compared to the costs of a standing server and the risk of a mistyped command on the command line when your blood pressure is already elevated due to the alert situation I am not convinced it is worth the hassle.
It might be different for a server or workstation at home where cost is the most important factor.
I bought this server "refurbished" for only $150 (CDN). It also makes a great space heater! ;-)
I also bought my current main server here at home used at Ebay. It's an old FSC Primergy 470. I just added some bigger SCSI-disks and a second CPU. It is still running here after years of service despite the high temperatures in summer.
But no software raid either, only true hardware raid and hot-plug. (^-^) Better used and a bit older but professional hardware than fast but fragile hardware.
I didn't know IBM Netfinity servers were "fragile". Mine's built like a tank and weighs almost as much as one. I bought it from a store that has a lot of electronic clearance items, not just computers. The server is still listed in this week's flyer, so if anyone in the Toronto area wants one, they should stop by Factory Direct. -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
James Knott wrote:
Sandy Drobic wrote:
James Knott wrote:
I bought this server "refurbished" for only $150 (CDN). It also makes a great space heater! ;-)
I also bought my current main server here at home used at Ebay. It's an old FSC Primergy 470. I just added some bigger SCSI-disks and a second CPU. It is still running here after years of service despite the high temperatures in summer.
But no software raid either, only true hardware raid and hot-plug. (^-^) Better used and a bit older but professional hardware than fast but fragile hardware.
I didn't know IBM Netfinity servers were "fragile".
The "fragile" wasn't aimed at your server, it was meant for the home servers where at best software raid is used or even no raid at all.
Mine's built like a tank and weighs almost as much as one. I bought it from a store that has a lot of electronic clearance items, not just computers. The server is still listed in this week's flyer, so if anyone in the Toronto area wants one, they should stop by Factory Direct.
Sigh, some weeks ago I saw a used sun E450 at Ebay and actually considered buying the monster. Then I tried to imagine where I could put it up to run and gave up. There's simply no space for such a machine in my small appartment. What a pity, though my electricity bill is definitely glad I reconsidered my fancy. (^-^) That thing alone is filling half of a full-sized rack. -- Sandy List replies only please! Please address PMs to: news-reply2 (@) japantest (.) homelinux (.) com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Saturday 2007-06-23 at 07:58 -0400, James Knott wrote:
I've just installed SUSE 10.2, using RAID 5, on an IBM Netfinity x232 server. I created one small partition for /boot, a RAID array over 4 disks for / and a 2nd RAID for swap. I assume I could replicate the /boot partition across all 4 drives and add them to GRUB.
I think you should. Not only /boot, but also the MBR part of grub, so that you can boot from any of the four disks. I'm not sure exactly of the best manner to do this; dd could do, but it is not just a single sector, I mean, not just the mbr. And overwriting the mbr overwrites the partition table.
(I assume you mean software raid, of course)
Yes. It doesn't appear the SCSI controllers have hardware raid. This is on a cheap server I picked up recently, so I'm just experimenting with different things as a learning experience. -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Carlos E. R. -
James Knott -
Joe Morris (NTM) -
John O'Gorman -
Randall R Schulz -
Sandy Drobic