On Sun, 2005-11-06 at 22:57 -0500, BandiPat wrote:

On Sunday 06 November 2005 11:03 am, James Ogley wrote:

...

...

When I have two YAST repositories (e.g., SUSE's and Packman) and I want to get online updates from both, how do I configure that?

At present this is a shortcoming in YaST - of having separate components for software management and updates. Also that the former can have multiple sources and the latter only one enabled at a time.

Future versions (perhaps not 10.1 though) will hopefully consolidate the two such that YaST's software management behaves (in that respect) more like APT/SMART (ie you can have base, update, packman, usr-local-bin etc etc all available to ensure you get the latest version). -- James Ogley james@usr-local-bin.org Packages for SUSE: http://usr-local-bin.org/rpms Make Poverty History: http://makepovertyhistory.org

---

I'm sorry, did I miss something or are you guys smoking something that should be shared with all of us? ;o)

You can add as many sources in YaST2 software management, System Update as you like, through the Installation Sources module! Just click add and fill in the blanks, enable & refresh and there ya go! YaST2 is every bit as capable as any of the others, guys. I think that was the point Ken was trying to make, but for some reason everything took a wrong turn to YOU.

The OP was wanting to use the command line version of Online_Update to update packages from repositories other than standard SuSE ones, i.e. packman. Online_Update only supports patching SuSE blessed packages. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998

Hi, Anders, On Sunday 06 November 2005 20:27, Anders Johansson wrote:

On Monday 07 November 2005 05:16, Ken Schneider wrote:

...

Online_Update only supports patching SuSE blessed packages.

Not at all. It only supports the repository format used in online update, which is different from the other YaST repository format, but you can set your own URL, and there is nothing preventing other people from setting up such repositories

Sigh. I guess my timing was bad. I wish I'd seen this first, before I contributed misinformation. I'll post a correction as a reply to my incorrect posting in order to minimize the damage. Randall Schulz

Not at all. It only supports the repository format used in online update, which is different from the other YaST repository format, but you can set your own URL, and there is nothing preventing other people from setting up such repositories

Absolutely, thing is that it remains the case that online_update can only have one repository enabled at any given time. Want to ease the pain? As has been commented already, use APT or SMART. -- James Ogley james@usr-local-bin.org Packages for SUSE: http://usr-local-bin.org/rpms Make Poverty History: http://makepovertyhistory.org

James have you tried smart out yet ? any good ?

Not as yet, more through laziness than an ideological commitment to the one true way, erm, I mean APT :) Nah, that said, SMART sounds like the way forward, especially if & when someone implements YaST repository support. For anyone who doesn't know, SMART supports APT, YUM, and a bunch of other package repository formats (Red Carpet?). -- James Ogley james@usr-local-bin.org Packages for SUSE: http://usr-local-bin.org/rpms Make Poverty History: http://makepovertyhistory.org

On Tue, 2005-11-08 at 10:55 +0000, Kevanf1 wrote:

On 07/11/05, James Ogley wrote:

...

...

James have you tried smart out yet ? any good ?

Not as yet, more through laziness than an ideological commitment to the one true way, erm, I mean APT :)

Nah, that said, SMART sounds like the way forward, especially if & when someone implements YaST repository support.

For anyone who doesn't know, SMART supports APT, YUM, and a bunch of other package repository formats (Red Carpet?). -- James Ogley james@usr-local-bin.org Packages for SUSE: http://usr-local-bin.org/rpms Make Poverty History: http://makepovertyhistory.org

Please excuse my ignorance but could somebody briefly run through the differences in these package managers?

They are all front ends to rpm, just different eye candy with each. Some other underlying differences as well. Smart seems to be 'smarter' than the others. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:53:53 -0500 Hans Krueger wrote:

... have you tried smart out yet ? any good ?

Been trying it out myself (mainly the GUI version). Pro: - If a package is available from more than one depository, it can show them all (the user could then select which he wants). - The user can select a package, and be shown immediately if something must be back-leveled. (If he doesn't want that, he can cancel that selection.) - It can perform all needed upgrades with just one or two clicks. (For those who like it simple.) Con: - Haven't figured out if the equivalent of "suggested packages" is available. So I ADD packages manually (see below). - I like it that smart starts multiple downloads simultaneously. But I suspect that my overall data transfer speed with smart is slower than with apt. - I'm on a dial-up line. The current smart shows the transfer speed measured over too small an interval. The number shown "bounces" all over the place, and to me is NOT informative. - If I'm looking for something, the smart index has so many categories that my mind is overloaded. Instead, I've had to resort to 'search'. I prefer the arrangement in YaST's Software Management --> Package Groups. I had problems using the gui facility to ADD depositories. Besides, *all* the information had to be typed into various fields anyway. I found it easier to manually copy from an existing file in the channels directory, then use a text editor to put in directory specifics. Note: when displaying, smart COMBINES channel contents if the string (before '-') in the first line of the channel file *matches* for several files (e.g., first lines [packman-apt] and [packman-i686-apt]). I'm still learning the "useability" of the smart gui. One thing I do, to find out if packages not installed on my system have been added or updated in the depositories, is to specify 'hide old' and 'expand'. I then look over the shown names (and their descriptions), to see if I'm interested in installing any of them. Still learning, mikus

On Sunday 06 November 2005 17:03, James Ogley wrote:

...

When I have two YAST repositories (e.g., SUSE's and Packman) and I want to get online updates from both, how do I configure that?

At present this is a shortcoming in YaST - of having separate components for software management and updates. Also that the former can have multiple sources and the latter only one enabled at a time.

Future versions (perhaps not 10.1 though) will hopefully consolidate the two such that YaST's software management behaves (in that respect) more like APT/SMART (ie you can have base, update, packman, usr-local-bin etc etc all available to ensure you get the latest version).

I think it's a good idea to have security fixes separate from other repositories. I like being able to run online update without worrying if I'm suddenly going to get the latest pre-alpha version of something else I would like to see a subscription model in the package repositories, where I can, say, subscribe to "mplayer", so when I run an update I only get updates to mplayer no matter what else I have installed on my system. I don't like having to run through the whole list of suggested updates just to see if someone has decided to upload something new to the package repository that I don't want to have updated

Ken Schneider wrote:

On Sun, 2005-11-06 at 14:47 +0100, Joachim Schrod wrote:

...

When I have two YAST repositories (e.g., SUSE's and Packman) and I want to get online updates from both, how do I configure that?

You are confusing "Online Update" offered only by SuSE with newer packages offered by third party repos.

No, I don't confuse that, believe me. :-) I asked if there is a way to get "Online Update" also for other repositories and I meant that. I don't want to select available packages manually, that would be 90s-style update management and is not appropriate for today. The situation: I have installed packages both from the SUSE DVD and from other sources. I get automated update management support for the SUSE packages by online_update. I don't get it for the other sources, but I want it for these packages as well. I.e., when there are updates for Packman or usr-local-bin or Guru packages, I want to get notified and want to be able to install them with one command. I also want to do that for a whole set of computers, and not just for one. Since I pay for my traffic by volume, downloads shall happen only once. Patch rpms should be supported, if possible, for the same reason. As James Ogley pointed out already, this is not possible with online_update. (Since James is the maintainer of usr-local-bin, I trust him fully on that answer. :-) This means I will have to decide if I go with apt or with smart. -- apt has the advantage that I know it from Debian. But I have not seen apticron up to now, which I use for Debian systems. So it might not be as convenient, I might need to put some work in it. -- smart has the advantage that SUSE seems to be going down that road. So it's a better investment of time for the long term. I wanted to postpone that decision and use online_update in the mean time; but I think that's not possible and I have to decide it now. Cheers, Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod Email: jschrod@acm.org Roedermark, Germany

Ken Schneider wrote:

On Sun, 2005-11-06 at 21:04 +0100, Joachim Schrod wrote:

...

As James Ogley pointed out already, this is not possible with online_update. (Since James is the maintainer of usr-local-bin, I trust him fully on that answer. :-)

Then why don't you understand that Online_Update won't do what you want it to?

???? I understand that. I wrote that I understand that in the paragraph that you cited. Ken, in my book, there is a difference between `I don't understand' and `I don't know, ask, get an answer, and acknowledge that answer'. My email expressed the latter not the former. If not understanding and not knowing is the same in your book, don't mind, that's fine with me, too. Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod Email: jschrod@acm.org Roedermark, Germany

Stan Glasoe wrote:

YOU (YaST Online Update) only applies to SUSE supplied packages that have security fixes and once in a great while major updates i.e. from OpenOffice.org beta 2 to the released version 2 when it became available. For non-SUSE packages we are on our own to manually run apt/smart/whatever and check for updates. We aren't told via apt/smart why these packages are updated: that is a manual exercise to go find out from package maintainers, blogs, websites, etc.

Hmm, but maybe that's not too difficult to build. On Debian, I use apticron. That's a script that emails me information about pending updates and has also information about the packages. I don't think that one can use it as-is, since there is no dpkg. But a similar script might be able to diff rpm -q --changelog between the installed and the new package and include that in the email. As I far as I have seen, no such script exists for apt4rpm yet. Or does it and I haven't seen it? Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod Email: jschrod@acm.org Roedermark, Germany

Hi, Right after I wrote the following message I read Anders J's post which made it clear that what I wrote is not correct. On Sunday 06 November 2005 20:31, Randall R Schulz wrote:

Joachim,

On Sunday 06 November 2005 05:47, Joachim Schrod wrote:

...

Hello,

When I have two YAST repositories (e.g., SUSE's and Packman) and I want to get online updates from both, how do I configure that?

In case it hasn't yet become clear, the answer is: you don't.

Wrong. It is technically possible, though _to my knowledge_ no package repository makes available the kind of updates YOU processes.

YaST Online Update only handles packages that were part of an original SuSE distribution. Packages installed from other repositories (via YaST or otherwise) will not participate in YOU updates. In fact, if you replace a SuSE-supplied package with a version from an alternate source (e.g., a KDE upgrade), those packages will no longer be updated by YOU.

Again, this is wrong. Just an incorrect extrapolstion I made based on limited empirical evidence.

...

Randall Schulz