-----Original Message----- From: Carlos E. R. [mailto:robin1.listas@tiscali.es] Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 5:58 PM To: SLE Subject: Re: [SLE] Problem with YOU On Friday, 2005-03-04 at 5:58 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

The Friday 2005-03-04 at 17:34 -0900, Greg Wallace wrote:

...

I have been trying to use YOU to check for the latest updates since yesterday afternoon. I keep getting - ... Anyone else experiencing this problem? I'm running 8.1, if that makes any difference.

It should... 8.1 is no longer mantained:

| Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 17:08:47 +0100 (MET) | From: Roman Drahtmueller | To: suse-security-announce@ | Subject: [suse-security-announce] Discontinued SUSE Linux Distributions: 8.1 | | Mon Jan 10 17:00:00 MET 2005 | | Dear suse-security-announce subscribers and SUSE LINUX users, | | With the release of the SUSE Linux 9.2 FTP edition today, SUSE Security | announces that the SUSE Linux 8.1 version of our home user product will | be discontinued soon. Having provided security-relevant fixes for more | than two years, vulnerabilities found in SUSE Linux 8.1 after January | 31st 2005 will not be fixed any more for this product. | | As a consequence, the SUSE Linux 8.1 distribution directories on our ftp | server ftp.suse.com has been moved from /pub/suse/i386/8.1/ to the | /pub/suse/discontinued/ directory tree structure to free space on our | mirror sites for the SUSE Linux 9.2 FTP edition; the 8.1 directory in | the update tree /pub/suse/i386/update/8.1 will follow later in | February/March 2005, as soon as all updates have been published.

So, the updates are not probably in the same place, and what you will find there are old patches.

-- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

Thanks again for letting me know that I was just spinning my wheels trying to do a YOU update in my old (sigh) 8.1. Is it possible to run YOU against the "discontinued" directory. I made a couple of stabs at it but don't know whether YOU just can't be used against that directory or if it's because I don't know how to specify the path properly. I tried specifying it at various levels, but either I never got the it specified correctly or YOU simply can't be used against "discontinued". If I have a crash before I FINALLY get around to upgrading (I have all of the CDs from 8.2 to 9.2), it might be nice to be able to at least get back to the last level of patches, once I've done my usual YAST recovery. Thanks, Greg W

The Friday 2005-03-04 at 23:17 -0900, Greg Wallace wrote:

Thanks again for letting me know that I was just spinning my wheels trying to do a YOU update in my old (sigh) 8.1.

Yeap. I have a machine right here running 7.3... Old, but fine for old computers with little memory. I would like SuSE maintaining a small footprint minidistro ;-)

Is it possible to run YOU against the "discontinued" directory. I made a couple of stabs at it but don't know whether YOU just can't be used against that directory or if it's because I don't know how to specify the path properly. I tried specifying it at various levels, but either I never got the it specified correctly or YOU simply can't be used against "discontinued".

I think it should be possible, but giving the path manually, ie, dissabling the search for servers YOU does when starting. I'd have to look at the ftp server to give you the specific path.

If I have a crash before I FINALLY get around to upgrading (I have all of the CDs from 8.2 to 9.2), it might be nice to be able to at least get back to the last level of patches, once I've done my usual YAST recovery.

You can save your patches on a CD, ie, create a patch CD. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

-----Original Message----- From: Carlos E. R. [mailto:robin1.listas@tiscali.es] Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 10:55 AM To: SLE Subject: RE: [SLE] Problem with YOU On Sunday, March 06 @ 2005 10:55 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote: -The Sunday 2005-03-06 at 01:34 +0100, I wrote: - -> I'd have to look at the ftp server to give you the specific path. -> - -I had a look, and I think you have to point it to:- -ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/discontinued/ - -And, you probably will not find mirrors (my usual mirror does not have it, -I know). --- -Cheers, - Carlos Robinson I tried that site and that exact path (that's the only one I tired), and that didn't work. I had used that server most of the time for my YOU processing. Maybe there's some additional software in place on the regular link to that site that isn't provided on "discontinued". The only reason I would go there anyway, now that it's no longer supported, would be if I had to do a recovery from YAST backup. If you do that, you don't get back all of the updates. Not sure why, but I suspect it may have something to do with the fact that there was a major upgrade to the YOU process some time back. I say that, because when I did a recovery, I had to do an update to this one YOU package before it would find most of the newer ones (probably the ones implemented with that new software). Regarding why I haven't upgraded in the past, even though I have all of the versions in between, is that I have had the exact same experience going to 8.2, 9.0, and 9.1 (haven't tried 9.2 yet, but I have the CDs, along with those other versions). 8.1 to 8.2 1) Upgrade 2) Test my Oracle software, it all works (Apache, Oracle Net, Oracle database) 3) Do a backup of the new system 4) Do a test of a recovery from backup by installing out of the box and doing a full recovery of the backup I made 5) One or more parts of my Oracle system no longer work 6) Re-install 8.1 7) Recover the 8.1 backup 8) Test everything out -- all ok I went through that same process for 8.1 to 9.0 and 8.1 to 9.1, same results. As a matter of fact, trying to recover 8.2 or 9.0 wouldn't even work. YAST recovery ran for about 24 hours before I finally figured out nothing was going on. 9.1 was better, in that it actually did recover my data, though as I said, the processes still wouldn't work. So, and here I'm drifting a bit, but not too much. When is SuSE going to get the equivalent of a Windows ASR backup? I lost my Windows machine at one time, ran the ASR recovery, and EVERYTHING was back just as it was before I lost it! It was pretty much mouse clicking the whole way. A child could do it with about 5 minutes training. So, I'm now looking at having to go 3rd party software so I can have some sort of decent backup once I convert, which is why I've kept putting it off. Yeah, I probably should have done that before, but just haven't found the time. Still, if Linux is really going to compete with Windows long term, this needs to be addressed. To me, nothing could be more important (and may I say basic) than being able to get your system back if you have a corrupted hard drive. Thanks and yours truly, Greg W.

The Monday 2005-03-07 at 04:34 -0600, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

...

...

ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/discontinued/

...

I tried that site and that exact path (that's the only one I tired), and that didn't work. I had used that server most of the time for my YOU processing. Maybe there's some additional software in place on the regular

The actual path you would need to use is <blahblah>/discontinued/<arch>/updates/<version>/

Are you sure? I looked at the path YOU in my 9.1 uses, and the "<arch>/updates/<version>/" is not there. YOU knows and expects to add that part.

...

So, and here I'm drifting a bit, but not too much. When is SuSE going to get the equivalent of a Windows ASR backup? I lost my Windows machine at

Probably when someone who really wants/needs it, and could actually write such a thing, gets around to writing it. This is definitely one big area where Linux is way behind the competition, though the argument probably will be made that, with mass storage media so cheap now, RAID is within reach of everyone. I'll buy that argument the day that all mass storage devices are hot-pluggable (without having to pay high-end server prices to get it).

Er... no. No administrator would substitute a backup for a raid. Raid is certainly safer than single disks, but there is simply no excuse for not having a backup scheme. Absolutely no excuses! -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

On Thursday 10 March 2005 00:47, Greg Wallace wrote:

On Monday, March 07, 2005 @ 4:34 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The Monday 2005-03-07 at 04:34 -0600, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

...

...

...

ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/discontinued/

I tried that site and that exact path (that's the only one I tired),

and

...

...

...

that didn't work. I had used that server most of the time for my YOU processing. Maybe there's some additional software in place on the

regular

...

...

The actual path you would need to use is <blahblah>/discontinued/<arch>/updates/<version>/

Are you sure? I looked at the path YOU in my 9.1 uses, and the "<arch>/updates/<version>/" is not there. YOU knows and expects to add that part. . . (snip) . -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

Carlos:

I looked at the paths on ftp.suse.com and it looks like the only difference between the regular update folder and the discontinued folder is the addition of that "discontinued" folder in the path. I. e., --

ftp.suse.com/pub/SuSE/i386/update

looks just like

ftp.suse.com/pub/SuSE/discontinued/i386/update

with the exception that after update, there is no longer an 8.1 node on the non-discontinued path and it shows up in the discontinued path. So, under YOU under "choice of installation source", I tried chose "expert" and tried --

*) For type of URL: -- FTP *) For Directory path, each of the following -- discontinued discontinued/i386 discontinued/i386/update discontinued/i386/update/8.1 discontinued/i386/update/8.1/patches

None worked, so that makes me think that maybe you just can't use YOU on the discontinued releases(?).

Sure you can. Have a look at the file /var/adm/YaST/ProdDB/prod_00000001 (or whatever the file is called that you have in the ProdDB directory) and look for the line that starts with =YouPath: Take the path you have on the ftp server, cut off what you see in YouPath, and put the remaining bit in the Directory Path input in YOU. I've even updated an old 7.x machine that way (albeit a SLES7) If it still doesn't work, try looking in /var/log/YaST2/y2log for any revealing error messages

On Monday, March 07, 2005 1:34 AM, Darryl Gregorash wrote --

...

Greg Wallace wrote:

...

-----Original Message----- From: Carlos E. R. [mailto:robin1.listas@tiscali.es] Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 10:55 AM To: SLE Subject: RE: [SLE] Problem with YOU

On Sunday, March 06 @ 2005 10:55 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote: -The Sunday 2005-03-06 at 01:34 +0100, I wrote: - -> I'd have to look at the ftp server to give you the specific path. -> - -I had a look, and I think you have to point it to:-

-ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/discontinued/ - -And, you probably will not find mirrors (my usual mirror does not have it, -I know).

--- -Cheers, - Carlos Robinson I tried that site and that exact path (that's the only one I tired), and that didn't work. I had used that server most of the time for my YOU processing. Maybe there's some additional software in place on the regular

The actual path you would need to use is <blahblah>/discontinued/<arch>/updates/<version>/

...

So, and here I'm drifting a bit, but not too much. When is SuSE going to get the equivalent of a Windows ASR backup? I lost my Windows machine at

Probably when someone who really wants/needs it, and could actually write such a thing, gets around to writing it. This is definitely one big area where Linux is way behind the competition, though the argument probably will be made that, with mass storage media so cheap now, RAID is within reach of everyone. I'll buy that argument the day that all mass storage devices are hot-pluggable (without having to pay high-end server prices to get it).

I tried ftp.suse.com/pub/SuSE/discontinued/i386/update/8.1/patches and a few other paths in that same area and still couldn't get it to work. Thanks, Greg W

On march 07, 2005 @ 1:34 AM, Darryl Gregorash wrote-- Greg Wallace wrote: . . .

...

So, and here I'm drifting a bit, but not too much. When is SuSE going to get the equivalent of a Windows ASR backup? I lost my Windows machine at

Probably when someone who really wants/needs it, and could actually write such a thing, gets around to writing it. This is definitely one big area where Linux is way behind the competition, though the argument probably will be made that, with mass storage media so cheap now, RAID is within reach of everyone. I'll buy that argument the day that all mass storage devices are hot-pluggable (without having to pay high-end server prices to get it).

. . . SuSE (Linux in general? -- no experience with other releases) definitely needs to get caught up on this. I assume this would be an extension of YAST -- another option for the type of backup you want to create under the backup utility. What really had me confused in the beginning was that the YAST backup does create something called autoinstall.txt. The "autoinstall" term made me think this was something similar to the diskette information that comes out of a Windows ASR backup. However, I posted questions about this file on this site trying to figure out what the heck it is and never got a response. I even posted mail to the "autoinstall" site. Same thing -- no response. Of course, if you don't get complete package backups out of your YAST backup, then, of course, an autoinstall couldn't really work anyway, not in the sense of a full system recovery. Greg W

On Tuesday, March 08, 2005 @ 3:36 AM, Ken Schneider wrote:

On Mon, 2005-03-07 at 23:34, Greg Wallace wrote:

...

On march 07, 2005 @ 1:34 AM, Darryl Gregorash wrote-- Greg Wallace wrote: SuSE (Linux in general? -- no experience with other releases) definitely needs to get caught up on this. I assume this would be an extension of YAST -- another option for the type of backup you want to create under the backup utility. What really had me confused in the beginning was that the YAST backup does create something called autoinstall.txt. The "autoinstall" term made me think this was something similar to the diskette information that comes out of a Windows ASR backup. However, I posted questions about this file on this site trying to figure out what the heck it is and never got a response. I even posted mail to the "autoinstall" site. Same thing -- no response. Of course, if you don't get complete package backups out of your YAST backup, then, of course, an autoinstall couldn't really work anyway, not in the sense of a full system recovery.

Greg W

Not being familure with ASR is this something included with MS server software? There are commercial products available that can do a recovery directly from backup tape/cd/dvd etc.. Check out BackupEdge and Lonetar. They are not too terribly expensive US$200-300.

...

-- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998

* Only reply to the list please*

"The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge

It comes with both Windows Home and Windows Pro. With Windows Home, you have to install it from the Windows CD. With Pro, it's automatically installed. It does backups of all sorts of varieties -- roll your own, everything on you system (the ASR variety I was talking about), deltas since last full backup, and deltas since last daily backup. The output is a diskette and a backup file. If your entire hard drive is wiped out, you start an installation from the CD (just like Linux), and there's a point along the way where it says something like "Press PF2 if you want to do Automated System Recovery). It then prompts you to insert that diskette and from there, it re-formats your disk and boots. The first thing after the boot, it asks you where the backup file is. It then validates that it syncs with the diskette you put in early and then recovers your entire system exactly like it was when you did that back up. For my Linux machine, I just purchased some software called Storix Linux Linux/86 Desktop Edition for SuSE Linux (there's a different edition for each Linux release -- Red Hat and many more). The web site said it went beyond a "bare metal" restore in that you could do things like change file systems during a recovery. It cost $79.00. I was also looking at Acronis True Image for app $50 dollars, which seems to be a bare metal recovery. I have heard positive things about it before on this site, so I may even buy it and do dual backups. Hopefully, one or both of these can bring my system back just like I left it. Not sure how these compare to BackupEdge or Lonetar, but I'm making note of those in case neither of these do the trick. Thanks, Greg W

On Tuesday, March 08, 2005 @ 7:15 PM, Ken Schneider wrote:

On Tuesday, March 08, 2005 @ 3:36 AM, Ken Schneider wrote: . . . This link will give some idea of what BackupEdge has for disaster recovery (RecoverEdge):

http://www.microlite.com/BackupEDGE_Products/02_01_01_Crash_Recovery/02_01_ 01_crash_recovery.html

Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998

* Only reply to the list please*

"The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge

This looks like it has everything that Window's ASR has (a fully automated recovery) and then some. I'm going to take a look at this Storix software that's already in the mail to me, but if I don't like what I see, I may give this another look. It definitely looks like it would do what I'm looking for. Do you know anything about Storix? My impression was that it had this same type of automated recovery, but I may find out when I get it that it doesn't. Thanks, Greg W

The Sunday 2005-03-06 at 21:08 -0900, Greg Wallace wrote:

I tried that site and that exact path (that's the only one I tired), and that didn't work. I had used that server most of the time for my YOU processing. Maybe there's some additional software in place on the regular link to that site that isn't provided on "discontinued".

I don't know, I don't have that version, son I can't try.

The only reason I would go there anyway, now that it's no longer supported, would be if I had to do a recovery from YAST backup.

You can easily create a patch CD. WIth it, you can install from yast, then tell YOU to use the CD for the update. Most of what has to go there you already have on your HD.

I went through that same process for 8.1 to 9.0 and 8.1 to 9.1, same results. As a matter of fact, trying to recover 8.2 or 9.0 wouldn't even work. YAST recovery ran for about 24 hours before I finally figured out nothing was going on. 9.1 was better, in that it actually did recover my data, though as I said, the processes still wouldn't work.

I have never liked Yast backup/recovery. It has been getting better every version, but I don't trust it. I would like to have something as good as the old, trusty, pcbackup for dos (central point software): 1991 vintage or even older is far better than what I have tried in Linux. I prefer to simply do a full copy on compressed CDs or DVDs, manually because I still don't know how to automate it to my liking. You could try mindi/mondo, people talk well about it.

To me, nothing could be more important (and may I say basic) than being able to get your system back if you have a corrupted hard drive.

Linux has some serious backup programs, like Amanda. But it is not designed for home use, but networks - it is included by SuSE: This is a release of Amanda, the Advanced Maryland Automatic Network Disk Archiver. Amanda is a backup system designed to archive many computers on a network to a single large-capacity tape drive. . See? It does not mention dvds, for example. Nor "single computer". Have a look in Yast, Group "Productivity/Archiving/Backup". There are several programs: partimage, pax, star... -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

Yep. Carlos just pointed that out to me. Thanks, Greg W -----Original Message----- From: Carl E. Hartung [mailto:suselinux@cehartung.com] Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 6:05 PM To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] Problem with YOU On Friday 04 March 2005 21:34, Greg Wallace wrote:

I have been trying to use YOU to check for the latest updates since yesterday afternoon. I keep getting -

ERROR Initialization failed. Try again. If failure continues, choose another SuSE FTP /HTTP Server.

Hi Greg, Don't hold me to this, but I seem to recall seeing an 'end of life' notice posted hereabouts or somewhere on the Novell website saying, in effect, no further development or patching or updates of any kind will be forthcoming and the ftp directories will be moved to the discontinued branch. cu, - Carl -- _______________________________________________________________________ C. E. Hartung Business Development & Support Services http://www.cehartung.com/ carlh@cehartung.com Dover Foxcroft, Maine, USA Public Keys 68396713 & F8207216 Reg. Linux User #350527 http://counter.li.org/