G T Smith wrote:

Billie Walsh wrote:

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And will fail miserably in a the real-world, where people do things like put coffee-cups, magazines, and other assorted items on their tables. Luddite!

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It's intended to have things put on it. It's a completely interactive surface. Put your keys on the table. Someone else puts down a couple magazines. You move things around to get your music going. Now your keys are under a magazine. Next morning you can't find your keys. The house computer knows they are on the coffee table under the November QST. Why? Because it recognizes the magazine and your keys and can keep track of whats where. Can't find yopur cheaters? The house computer knows you left them on your desk under that manual you printed out last night. Taken to another extreme. You put down your coffee cup and the "surface" recognizes the need and heats the surface where the cup is sitting. Take off you coffee cup and put down a glass of iced tea and it now cools that spot.

Will it do toast :-D

Right that would be OK for coffee, but not so much use if you put your beer down (unless you are drinking gluh bier ...).. :-)

On a more serious note, the kind of AI to this kind of thing is still a a very long way away, and we are not talking a few years, more like a few decades.....

I don't think I've ever seen anyone give a time frame for this sort of thing. It IS in the future somewhere. But not impossible to achieve.

a) To do this you need good pattern recognition. Neural net based applications a still more than a bit limited in accuracy, reliability and range of usage. Finger scanning yes, facial recognition not yet by a long way.

b) The cognitive A.I. to deal with the semantics, intent, and action interpretation of human activity does not exist outside the lab.

"outside the lab" Does that mean that it's IN the lab?

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I'm sure such things are still a few years in the future but............

It's a ridiculously stupid idea to think that this sort of thing will be in a coffee-table in every one's home

While I would not call it stupid, I think something like holographic keyboards and displays are likely to be more cost effective (and you would not need a special table).... This kind of stuff is not new or original ....

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Never count out technology. About a hundred years ago todays world would have been completely inconceivable to most people. When Star Trek came out it was beyond cutting edge. I now have a communicator laying on my desk that is smaller and has more power and features that Kirk's communicator. It's called a Motorola Razor. My car has more raw

Umm.. I have heard it reported that the Scandinavians were inspired by the Star Trek communicator in their early mobile phone designs...

Remember the old Motorola "Star Tak". I can't say for a fact but I would suspect from it's design and name it was.

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People said the Wright brothers were "ridiculous" but Boing is getting ready to unveil a one thousand (1000) passenger airliner. People said that going to the moon was "ridiculous" but we have been there and could be there to stay if the will was there. People used to say it was "ridiculous" to think anyone would want/need a computer in their home. How many do you have. We have five that run pretty much 24/7 and have had as high as eight or ten at any given time.

People also were saying that we would be have an active base on the Moon by 2000, and we have not been back for 20 years or so....

If you look some of the futurogist predictions from the 1950, 1960 and 1970 of what we would have and be doing now and compare them to what we actually have the incongruences can be startling.

But, on the other hand some of the congruences are startling also. That's the problem with predicting the future. It changes from where you are to where you wind up. "We" could have moon bases if things had progressed from where we were to that end. We had the ability but not the will. People said it was costing WAY to much money to fire people up into space. What wasn't seen was that money went into jobs here in the good ol' USofA. Once Kennedy's vision was met the whole country lost the will for space travel. It wasn't a failure of technology.

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Then there's the Star Trek computer. Well.............maybe not quite THAT computer but voice interface. I've never actually tried working with it but I have seen demos of voice recognition software that were

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THEN, there's something that is still pretty much in the toy phase, but looks like a REALLY neat toy. It's looks like an ink pen. You write on paper then plug it into the computer and it puts what you wrote in a document. I've seen it at Wal Mart at Christmas time. Sells for about $80US. Name is "Fly...... " [ something ].

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They've been on the market for several years now. That's an idea that's actually useful and innovative. I just can't quite turn loose with $80US for an "ink pen". No matter how neat a toy it is.

Old hat! been around for more than five years but people only buy the things as a gimmick.... I think it a bit interesting how some technology that some technophiles think is really cool never quite make it in the rest of the world...

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I wouldn't count out the keyboard just yet but there are technologies out there that could go a long way towards moving it to the back of the desk. Also wouldn't say that the keyboard will ever go completely away. When the high tech stuff breaks the keyboard will still work. And more than that, among someone who is skilled, it's far more reliable than voice recognition ever will be. Fingers don't have drawls, twangs, or other vocal accents.

I still remember trying to train Via Voice when it was set to train from an American accent... the training slightly self destructed on the occasional outbursts of hysterical laughter caused by some of the more ridiculous interpretations of what was being said...

UK english was only marginally better (or worse depending on viewpoint..)

I saw a demonstration at a computer show several years ago. A VERY nice looking young lady [ probably more of the guys were watching her than the screen ] and it was remarkable. Now that was a set script, optimized, with, I'm sure, many MANY hours of practice with that particular computer and young lady. Nothing like a "real world" test of the software, but it did show some possibilities.

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Voice recognition software is still very much in it's infancy. For people that work with it every day it can be VERY effective. The trick right now is that you have to be one person and one computer every time. BUT, that doesn't mean that it would be impossible to improve it to the point where anyone could use it on any computer. Just that there hasn't been any "need" to do the work to get it there. Right now it's kind of a niche software.

The problem with voice recognition and computer control is not only has the computer got correctly identify what has been said but also correctly interpret what has been said. (There was interesting blooper this year By microsoft when they seemed to have cloned Santa with Eliza and got a Santa which gave some rather inappropriate responses).

On the interpretation element an English speaking human would have problems with the following statement...

"She killed the man with the knife"

It's been a long time but I think she had to voice any punctuation.

which has two meanings. Poor dumb computer has no chance with this one at the moment....

( and of course you have got to take into account the bright spark who shouts delete all over your shoulder ... :-) )....

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Billie Walsh wrote:

G T Smith wrote:

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Billie Walsh wrote:

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I don't think I've ever seen anyone give a time frame for this sort of thing. It IS in the future somewhere. But not impossible to achieve.

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a) To do this you need good pattern recognition. Neural net based applications a still more than a bit limited in accuracy, reliability and range of usage. Finger scanning yes, facial recognition not yet by a long way.

b) The cognitive A.I. to deal with the semantics, intent, and action interpretation of human activity does not exist outside the lab.

"outside the lab" Does that mean that it's IN the lab?

Been in the 'lab' for quite some time... since 1960s at least...

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I'm sure such things are still a few years in the future but............

It's a ridiculously stupid idea to think that this sort of thing will be in a coffee-table in every one's home While I would not call it stupid, I think something like holographic keyboards and displays are likely to be more cost effective (and you would not need a special table).... This kind of stuff is not new or original ....

<snip>

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People also were saying that we would be have an active base on the Moon by 2000, and we have not been back for 20 years or so....

If you look some of the futurogist predictions from the 1950, 1960 and 1970 of what we would have and be doing now and compare them to what we actually have the incongruences can be startling.

But, on the other hand some of the congruences are startling also. That's the problem with predicting the future. It changes from where you are to where you wind up. "We" could have moon bases if things had progressed from where we were to that end. We had the ability but not the will. People said it was costing WAY to much money to fire people up into space. What wasn't seen was that money went into jobs here in the good ol' USofA.

Once Kennedy's vision was met the whole country lost the will for space travel. It wasn't a failure of technology.

futurology reminds of the the Monty Python sketch ... the one where the old women agree that astrology reading was good that although it got the green six foot lizard bit wrong they were right about the glasses...

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Then there's the Star Trek computer. Well.............maybe not quite THAT computer but voice interface. I've never actually tried working with it but I have seen demos of voice recognition software that were <snip>

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I wouldn't count out the keyboard just yet but there are technologies out there that could go a long way towards moving it to the back of the desk. Also wouldn't say that the keyboard will ever go completely away. When the high tech stuff breaks the keyboard will still work. And more than that, among someone who is skilled, it's far more reliable than voice recognition ever will be. Fingers don't have drawls, twangs, or other vocal accents. I still remember trying to train Via Voice when it was set to train from an American accent... the training slightly self destructed on the occasional outbursts of hysterical laughter caused by some of the more ridiculous interpretations of what was being said...

UK english was only marginally better (or worse depending on viewpoint..)

I saw a demonstration at a computer show several years ago. A VERY nice looking young lady [ probably more of the guys were watching her than the screen ] and it was remarkable. Now that was a set script, optimized, with, I'm sure, many MANY hours of practice with that particular computer and young lady. Nothing like a "real world" test of the software, but it did show some possibilities.

Yes punctuation has to be defines. However, while we still use written documentation the keyboard is the fastest and most efficient way of creating text. A good keyboard can achieve data input speeds that exceed speech, stylus or any other current or proposed input mechanism. What voice recognition could provide is a humanised interface in situations where keyboard is not appropriate or required. <snip> - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHhzjgasN0sSnLmgIRAnSGAJoDzIWhOOaYYXTs2J1XeTcyclSSRACfXrPA kVJbI6sFxxUgIIiEsfQAago= =16Fn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Billie Walsh wrote:

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G T Smith wrote:

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Billie Walsh wrote:

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I don't think I've ever seen anyone give a time frame for this sort of thing. It IS in the future somewhere. But not impossible to achieve.

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a) To do this you need good pattern recognition. Neural net based applications a still more than a bit limited in accuracy, reliability and range of usage. Finger scanning yes, facial recognition not yet by a long way. <snip> In England they are setting up a new airport screening device. You "register" with the agency and they take a computer picture of your face. When you get to the airport you slide in your passport and look into the camera. It "reads" a chip in your passport and compares the

On 01/11/2008 G T Smith wrote: picture to the one in the database. If there's a match, independent of hairstyle/color, makeup, etc., you get a "pass" to proceed. If no match you get t he cops called on you. In Oklahoma when you get your drivers license they take a picture for the computer database. When you renew your license you stand in front of the camera and if the pictures match you get a new license. If not............. Admittedly, when they first instituted the process several years ago they had some problem with things like hair style and length, but they have been working on the software and it is getting much better. Buy from the lowest bidder and you get cheap products. Facial recognition is becoming quite good. </snip>

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b) The cognitive A.I. to deal with the semantics, intent, and action interpretation of human activity does not exist outside the lab.

"outside the lab" Does that mean that it's IN the lab?

Been in the 'lab' for quite some time... since 1960s at least...

<snip> But, it is still possible to do these things. Technology just has to catch up to the dream/idea. </snip>

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futurology reminds of the the Monty Python sketch ... the one where the old women agree that astrology reading was good that although it got the green six foot lizard bit wrong they were right about the glasses...

<snip> *<[:oD Back in the late fifties and early sixties we all thought we would have moon bases by the end of the century. There has to be the "will" to do things. If the will isn't there .......... Then again, sometimes technology has to catch up to our ideas/dreams. It was a science fiction writer that envisioned global communications with geostationary satellites long before there were even satellites of any type. Arthur C. Clarke. He also envisioned the space elevator which only now some are beginning to think might just be possible. Someone reads the idea and says,"Hey what a neat idea. I think I know how to do it." So begins years of research. Then someone makes a breakthrough in technology and by george it does work. For how many thousands of years "we" had to walk or ride beasts of burden. A couple hundred years ago the rail road came along. That was cutting edge transportation for over a hundred years. Just over a hundred years ago the automobile started to appear on the scene. Just about a hundred years ago men learned how to fly in heavier than air craft. Today we have the ability to go the other planets. The point I'm trying to make is that technology has "exploded" in the last hundred years. At this point, barring Armageddon, if technology keeps going as it has there's no telling where we will be in another hundred years. </snip>

Yes punctuation has to be defines. However, while we still use written documentation the keyboard is the fastest and most efficient way of creating text. A good keyboard can achieve data input speeds that exceed speech, stylus or any other current or proposed input mechanism. What voice recognition could provide is a humanised interface in situations where keyboard is not appropriate or required.

<snip>

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I think that would depend on ones typing prowess. I can definitely talk faster than I can type. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

G T Smith wrote:

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Billie Walsh wrote:

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And will fail miserably in a the real-world, where people do things like put coffee-cups, magazines, and other assorted items on their tables. Luddite!

It's intended to have things put on it. It's a completely interactive surface. Put your keys on the table. Someone else puts down a couple magazines. You move things around to get your music going. Now your keys are under a magazine. Next morning you can't find your keys. The house computer knows they are on the coffee table under the November QST. Why? Because it recognizes the magazine and your keys and can keep track of whats where. Can't find yopur cheaters? The house computer knows you left them on your desk under that manual you printed out last night. Taken to another extreme. You put down your coffee cup and the "surface" recognizes the need and heats the surface where the cup is sitting. Take off you coffee cup and put down a glass of iced tea and it now cools that spot.

Will it do toast :-D

Right that would be OK for coffee, but not so much use if you put your beer down (unless you are drinking gluh bier ...).. :-)

On a more serious note, the kind of AI to this kind of thing is still a a very long way away, and we are not talking a few years, more like a few decades.....

a) To do this you need good pattern recognition. Neural net based applications a still more than a bit limited in accuracy, reliability and range of usage. Finger scanning yes, facial recognition not yet by a long way.

b) The cognitive A.I. to deal with the semantics, intent, and action interpretation of human activity does not exist outside the lab.

Nor inside it, either. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org