On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 20:32 -0400, David Johanson wrote:

Preston Crawford wrote:

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On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 20:03 -0400, Andy Coleman wrote:

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I figure I can't be the only one with this problem but I can't seem to find any answers.

I'm running 9.2 with all of the YOU updates.

You're not the only one running into problems with Mozilla or Firefox. I personally rolled back to the last patch and I'm ignoring the red exclamation point right now, weighing whether I need to think about switching to another distribution. For now, I'm waiting this out to see how long it's going to take SuSE to get a decent set of RPMs into YOU to fix this. I hope it's sometime soon. I don't want to run Firefox insecure, but I also need to be able to run it.

Preston

Go ahead and run YOU; select only the mozilla update. I did this on Monday and it fixed the Mozilla problem it created a week prior. Sure would be NICE if SUSE bothered to identify that this update repaired the damage caused by the previous junk they uploaded.

dave

So are you saying that downloading the Mozilla patch will fix Firefox as well or just Mozilla? Because the main problem I'm having with Firefox are lost themes, lost bookmarks, etc. I saw the Mozilla update pop up there a couple days ago (I've been in surgery/the hospital from Monday to today) and wasn't sure if it was safe to run since they are kind of connected. I'm willing to give it a shot, though, if you think it will help. And maybe I'll go to the default Firefox, since Bruce (in between the rant) mentioned that it worked well. I just hate to have to stray too much from SuSE sources. Especially since they often put software in different places (/opt/ vs. /usr/local/, etc.) Preston

On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 19:46 -0700, Kastus wrote:

On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 06:33:10PM -0700, Preston Crawford wrote:

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well or just Mozilla? Because the main problem I'm having with Firefox are lost themes, lost bookmarks, etc. I saw the Mozilla update pop up

Preston, the update of firefox to v.1.0.3 via YOU went smoothly for me on one 9.2 system but cause symptoms similar to yours on another 9.2 system. Remembering the fix from early versions of firebird/firefox, I renamed my ~/.mozilla/firefox directory (use just anything, e.g. ~/.mozilla/firefox-OLD), then started firefox and it offered to import my old settings, I confirmed that and got all my old setup back.

Maybe give this method a try.

I just tried this and it imported my settings from mozilla, but not from Firefox. Dang. Thanks, though. If I'm doing something wrong, let me know. Preston

On Thu, 2005-05-05 at 10:46 +0100, Kevanf1 wrote:

Huh, I updated my 9.2 tin last night via YOU. Came to try Firefox, guess what? Broken. The icon has completely vanished from the taskbar and it will not run from the KDE menu. So you are not alone

That's a new one. That will teach you. Use slrn. :-) Seriously, though, what do they have to do with each other. Weird.

with these problems, Preston. As for the rather unkind comments about somebody having had it with your Firefox problems....is there really any need for that? I thought that sort of attitude had disappeared years ago with the stupid flame wars in the newsgroups. I shall try

No, actually it seems to have gotten worse here. This used to be a place where, if you had a problem with the distro, you could talk about it. It's sad too. I love SuSE and push it everywhere I can. Have done so for years. And I used to hold the SuSE community in the highest regard. I hope this (both the software problems and the flaming when you complain) are just a blip. Preston

On Thu, 2005-05-05 at 14:16 +0100, Kevanf1 wrote:

Right. I tried first to re-install from the DVD. Nope, didn't want to know. So I then wiped it and did a clean install. Ok, Firefox is now working. I then tried the YOU update (what is slrn?). It went

Just a different text-based newsreader. It's what I use.

smoothly and seemingly installed. Huh, back to square one, Firefox not working. So this time I downloaded the package from Mozilla intending to install from this - which I have in the past. But this will not even attempt to install. What am I doing wrong?

No idea. If I knew I wouldn't be trying so many different things. What do you mean that it "will not even attempt to install"? Is it an RPM, tarball? Preston

On Thu, 2005-05-05 at 15:24 +0200, Anders Johansson wrote:

On Thursday 05 May 2005 15:09, Preston Crawford wrote:

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No, actually it seems to have gotten worse here. This used to be a place where, if you had a problem with the distro, you could talk about it. It's sad too. I love SuSE and push it everywhere I can. Have done so for years. And I used to hold the SuSE community in the highest regard. I hope this (both the software problems and the flaming when you complain) are just a blip.

Not really, Preston. Lots of people are discussing problems they have here without getting flamed. It's just that most people don't accompany their discussions with repeated threats to switch distros. That has always been a very good way to piss people off on this list.

It's not a threat. If people take it that way, then that's them. What I'm trying to convey is the point that (for me at least) the value I get out of SuSE is in the level of quality of the distro and in the updates after I purchase it. So when I talk about other distros my point is to say that the distro I know and love is losing its one HUGE advantage over these other distros. It's not a threat. It's me expressing a concern. To the average Linux newbie, they won't even think about *paying* for a distro. Linux is "free" to them, so they don't want to spend a dime on it. So already SuSE is fighting an uphill battle by selling a distro in a market where almost every other user-oriented distro is free. However, they bring craftsmanship and ease of updating to the equation, so it's possible to convince people of the value of paying for it. So the reason I raise the issue of other distros is (as I've said before), because once SuSE loses that edge, there really is no reason for SuSE Pro to become anything other than another community-supported free Fedora-like distro. And I'd hate to see that happen. I like paying for a good quality distro.

It is also a fact that not everyone sees the problem you had with firefox. I for instance didn't have it. A friend of mine updated four machines, on three of them firefox worked, on the fourth it didn't. That should be a clue that this problem is tricky and not something guaranteed to be found before release.

I understand that not everyone is having the problem. But if you had a friend (just anecdotal evidence) who had it happen on 1 of 4 machines, I would think semi-rigorous testing on SuSE's part would have turned this up on at least a couple machines, just the same, and caused them to pause. Preston

On Thu, 2005-05-05 at 14:58 +0100, Ben Higginbottom wrote:

On 5/5/05, Preston Crawford wrote:

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It's not a threat. If people take it that way, then that's them.

<snip>

Preston you've been doing the chickenlittle routine for years, every new release you complain about how bad it is and say your switching. When SCO started making noises you said it looked like it was time to switch to the HURD, and IIRC the Novell buyout you never shut up about how it was the end of days.

You're right. I have been chicken little many times over the years. Mostly because I love Linux and I really love SuSE. And when it appears either may be in danger I will be the first to admit that I overreact (although I don't recall ever *seriously* considering the HURD). It's not because I'm a troll, hate SuSE, or can't admin a Linux distro, though. It's because I want SuSE to continue to survive as a high quality, well thought-out and supported (update-wise) distro. I know there are hiccups. I deal with probably 10 times more hiccups than I talk about, even though it may not seem like that. I roll with them, though. I make backups, I continue to use SuSE. Life goes on. I only pop up when something major breaks or when something major happens (like SCO). Once again, I didn't think there was anything wrong with worrying about/caring about the state of the SuSE. I now know in the future never to bring this up. I've been told by a vocal number of you that this is just not welcome here. Message received. I won't stop trying to solve the individual problems that crop up. I'll keep my comments about switching to myself. And if one day the problems make the $90 every 6 months not worth it I'll just walk away (for another distro, not an abacus). I've always thought this was a place where we, as a community, could discuss the direction the distribution was headed. I'm sorry I got this wrong. Preston

On Thursday 05 May 2005 9:22 am, Preston Crawford wrote:

...

Preston you've been doing the chickenlittle routine for years, every new release you complain about how bad it is and say your switching. When SCO started making noises you said it looked like it was time to switch to the HURD, and IIRC the Novell buyout you never shut up about how it was the end of days. <snip> Once again, I didn't think there was anything wrong with worrying about/caring about the state of the SuSE. I now know in the future never to bring this up. I've been told by a vocal number of you that this is just not welcome here. Message received. I won't stop trying to solve

On Thu, 2005-05-05 at 14:58 +0100, Ben Higginbottom wrote: the individual problems that crop up. I'll keep my comments about switching to myself. And if one day the problems make the $90 every 6 months not worth it I'll just walk away (for another distro, not an abacus). I've always thought this was a place where we, as a community, could discuss the direction the distribution was headed. I'm sorry I got this wrong.

Preston

Take the discussion of the health, wealth, direction, mis-direction, and personal opinions of, for or about SuSE Linux to the suse-ot list. Leave the technical issues about SuSE Linux for the English language here. Simple. Thanks, Stan

On Wed, 4 May 2005, Preston Crawford wrote:

On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 20:32 -0400, David Johanson wrote:

...

Preston Crawford wrote:

...

On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 20:03 -0400, Andy Coleman wrote:

...

I figure I can't be the only one with this problem but I can't seem to find any answers.

I'm running 9.2 with all of the YOU updates.

You're not the only one running into problems with Mozilla or Firefox. I personally rolled back to the last patch and I'm ignoring the red exclamation point right now, weighing whether I need to think about switching to another distribution. For now, I'm waiting this out to see how long it's going to take SuSE to get a decent set of RPMs into YOU to fix this. I hope it's sometime soon. I don't want to run Firefox insecure, but I also need to be able to run it.

Preston

Go ahead and run YOU; select only the mozilla update. I did this on Monday and it fixed the Mozilla problem it created a week prior. Sure would be NICE if SUSE bothered to identify that this update repaired the damage caused by the previous junk they uploaded.

dave

So are you saying that downloading the Mozilla patch will fix Firefox as well or just Mozilla? Because the main problem I'm having with Firefox are lost themes, lost bookmarks, etc. I saw the Mozilla update pop up there a couple days ago (I've been in surgery/the hospital from Monday to today) and wasn't sure if it was safe to run since they are kind of connected. I'm willing to give it a shot, though, if you think it will help. And maybe I'll go to the default Firefox, since Bruce (in between the rant) mentioned that it worked well. I just hate to have to stray too much from SuSE sources. Especially since they often put software in different places (/opt/ vs. /usr/local/, etc.)

What, precisely, is the problem with Mozilla/Firefox? Does it involve the SuSE Mozilla/Firfox 1.0.3 update? I am using Mozilla/Firefox 1.0.3. The bookmarks toolbar is displayed just below the location toolbar but it is blank. I believe that this problem was introduced when SuSE released the 1.0.3 update. However, I can't be sure because I was distracted by the problems caused by SaX2 changing my display manager and window manager during the upgrade from SuSE 9.2 to SuSE 9.3. Anyway, the ~/.mozilla/firefox/.default/bookmarks.html file used to generate the contents of the bookmarks toolbar is still present. It contains the Novell: Support link and all of the links that I added to the toolbar. It just isn't used to generate the bookmarks toolbar. Initially, clicking Bookmarks on the menu toolbar displayed an empty drop down list. Your bookbarks can be displayed by clicking View in the menu toolbar and clicking Bookmarks in the sidebar submenu. After doing this, the Bookmarks drop-down in the menu toolbar will be populated will all your saved bookmarks. This is interesting! I had the Bookmarks sidebar displayed and clicked on the View > Toolbars > Bookmarks Toolbar. All of a sudden, the Bookmarks Toolbar is now displaying all of the links. After a few quick tests, it looks like the Bookmarks Toolbar will only be rendered when either the Bookmarks or History Sidebar is displayed. If the Sidebar is closed when you exit Firefox, the Bookmarks Toolbar is not rendered the next time that you open Firefox and the Bookmarks drop-down is blank. This behaviour does not occur on a SuSE 9.2 system that has had the Mozilla/Firefox 1.0.3 patch applied using YOU. Strange! Merton Campbell Crockett -- BEGIN: vcard VERSION: 3.0 FN: Merton Campbell Crockett ORG: General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems; Intelligence and Exploitation Systems N: Crockett;Merton;Campbell EMAIL;TYPE=internet: mcc@CATO.GD-AIS.COM TEL;TYPE=work,voice,msg,pref: +1(805)497-5045 TEL;TYPE=work,fax: +1(805)497-5050 TEL;TYPE=cell,voice,msg: +1(805)377-6762 END: vcard

Preston Crawford wrote:

On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 20:32 -0400, David Johanson wrote:

...

Preston Crawford wrote:

...

On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 20:03 -0400, Andy Coleman wrote:

...

I figure I can't be the only one with this problem but I can't seem to find any answers.

I'm running 9.2 with all of the YOU updates.

You're not the only one running into problems with Mozilla or Firefox. I personally rolled back to the last patch and I'm ignoring the red exclamation point right now, weighing whether I need to think about switching to another distribution. For now, I'm waiting this out to see how long it's going to take SuSE to get a decent set of RPMs into YOU to fix this. I hope it's sometime soon. I don't want to run Firefox insecure, but I also need to be able to run it.

Preston

Go ahead and run YOU; select only the mozilla update. I did this on Monday and it fixed the Mozilla problem it created a week prior. Sure would be NICE if SUSE bothered to identify that this update repaired the damage caused by the previous junk they uploaded.

dave

So are you saying that downloading the Mozilla patch will fix Firefox as well or just Mozilla? Because the main problem I'm having with Firefox are lost themes, lost bookmarks, etc. I saw the Mozilla update pop up there a couple days ago (I've been in surgery/the hospital from Monday to today) and wasn't sure if it was safe to run since they are kind of connected. I'm willing to give it a shot, though, if you think it will help. And maybe I'll go to the default Firefox, since Bruce (in between the rant) mentioned that it worked well. I just hate to have to stray too much from SuSE sources. Especially since they often put software in different places (/opt/ vs. /usr/local/, etc.)

Preston

No, downloading the mozilla patch only fixed mozilla. To be more specific. I was not able to get firefox to run at all or mozilla to provide full function until I did the latest download. I'm running things pretty vanilla, so I can't address the impact of themes and so forth. I haven't tried to re-install firefox yet as I haven't the time. However, at the moment thunderbird is fully functional with addresses and all with the exception of embedded links not working correctly. I know that has to be set in KDE BUT I have set it up in KDE and it is still not working. Mozilla is working correctly, so I have both browser and mail now functioning. When I get back from travel in a week I plan to attempt the re-install of firefox on the 9.2 box. Then, once I'm satisfied that I can fix that problem, I'm going to slick the drive and do a clean install of 9.3. That will likely bring its own share of growing pains, but I think I'm up for it. As long as the biggest problem from my perspective in 9.1 and 9.2 has been fixed, or so it seems, the USB stuff, I'm game to play a while with 9.3. Once I get 9.2 and the "browser" stuff finalized, I'll add to this discussion; perhaps it will be helpful to others. Thanks for your initial guidance. dave -- David C. Johanson Linux Counter # 116410 Powered by SuSE Linux 7.3 People who behold a phenomenon will often extend their thinking beyond it; people who merely hear about the phenomenon will not be moved to think at all. -- Goethe

On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 20:39 -0400, Bruce Marshall wrote:

On Wednesday 04 May 2005 08:24 pm, Preston Crawford wrote:

...

On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 20:03 -0400, Andy Coleman wrote:

...

I figure I can't be the only one with this problem but I can't seem to find any answers.

I'm running 9.2 with all of the YOU updates.

You're not the only one running into problems with Mozilla or Firefox. I personally rolled back to the last patch and I'm ignoring the red exclamation point right now, weighing whether I need to think about switching to another distribution. For now, I'm waiting this out to see how long it's going to take SuSE to get a decent set of RPMs into YOU to fix this. I hope it's sometime soon. I don't want to run Firefox insecure, but I also need to be able to run it.

Preston

Doesn't take much to get you to quit, does it??

As I said earlier, I pay SuSE so I can run services like YOU. If YOU isn't functioning, SuSE becomes less valuable to me as a distro.

No problems here with stock firefox 1.0.3 from the mozilla site.

I've had problems with the stock firefox from SuSE's ftp server. It gave me problems as well. Haven't tried the stock Firefox, but then I was trying to keep YOU in order.

Does everything you do have to come from SuSE?

Of course not. However, why bother buying SuSE if YOU doesn't work? I've explained the reasons why I use SuSE over and over again. Do I need to explain it again? Apparently. I use SuSE because it's a well built, well tested distro. I just want to work, not have to worry about updates. So I gladly fork over the $80 (now $90) nearly every release so that I don't have to think about updates or where to get them from. Of course I get my multimedia and DVD apps, Java, Mono, etc. from other places. I just like to stick to SuSE produced RPMs as much as possible, generally. Otherwise, why not run my own distro. I've put together Linux

From Scratch before. So I'd have no problem running Fedora, Gentoo, or any number of distros. I choose SuSE because of its quality and the security updates.

Sorry for the rant but I've about had it with your firefox/mozilla problems...

"Had it"? I'm confused. Honestly. Preston