Perfectly agree, didnt know.abt that list.. will definitely advise everyone i know to stay away from licenses and updates ..and Vistas...etc...as far as possible and check that URL before buying stuff... on a more realistic front though.... for whatever practical reasons mainly Hardware vendors not readily embracing OpenSource or OpenSuse ;-) somebody who has bought that wrong laptop and wants to run linux.now..can easily give up with a very sad excuse like : "Ah Linux just doesnt work on my laptop" .... again not trying to be rude ...but am I being really mean if I speculate 20-30% of first time Linux users give up for lack of "stuff not working" and fallback on that M$ thing...and live happily ever after... Thx Digz On 1/9/07, Martin Mielke wrote:

Hi there,

far from wanting to sound rude... maybe it would be a good idea to check the so called Hardware Compatibility List (http://hardwaredb.suse.de/?LANG=en_UK) before compulsively buying anything... :-)

A for your question... maybe not for "all" but for most of them.

Cheers (and good night!), Martin

----- Original Message ---- From: Digvijoy Chatterjee To: opensuse@opensuse.org Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:33:48 AM Subject: Re: [opensuse] Can you say ripoff - OT

As much as I hate M$ , let me share my experiences with my new HP dv6171cl , laptop with AMD TL-52 dual core , 2GB Ram , M$ Media Centre. blabla.... I pick it off of the store , i run to my house to shrink the windows partition and install Opensuse-10.2 ok 1) Normal install breaks in partitioning ......good no worries 2) Safe Install goes through....uses nv for Nvidia GeForce Go 6150 ..kernel crashes repeatedly on trying to install libstdc++41-x86_64 , 3) Safe Install Suse-10.0 , hoping kernel is stable , now it crashes more randomly 4) Try and upgrade 10.0 to 10.2 ..install breaks in removal of unused packages 4.1) Install 10.2 in safe mode again... 5) i file X.org bugs in bugzilla.novell.com, reply is 'WONTFIX' please use nvidias proprietary drivers 6) I take another 2 days to get my nvidia driver compiled and running , by googling for hours to figure out that i gotta boot the kernel with noapic 7) In these two days , I try Ubuntu Dapper Drake , for all its worth , the live CD cannot even start X talk abt use friendly...ironic 8) I manage to insert nvidia.ko and restart X using sax , i have had an uptime of 3 days now. 9) My broadcom wireless ( bcm43xx.ko ) doesnot work gotta do some firmware stuff...etc..

I love Linux and Suse ,and i had no qualms abt struggling for 2 weeks before I am all set , do u expect a newbie to buy a laptop and break his head like this , or would he rather pay those exorbitant charges and get a peace of mind and use his laptop....

Is Linux really really ready for "ALL" Desktops ..????

Thanks Digz

[ snip ]

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Martin Mielke wrote:

Hi there,

far from wanting to sound rude... maybe it would be a good idea to check the so called Hardware Compatibility List (http://hardwaredb.suse.de/?LANG=en_UK) before compulsively buying anything... :-)

A for your question... maybe not for "all" but for most of them.

Cheers (and good night!), Martin

----- Original Message ---- From: Digvijoy Chatterjee To: opensuse@opensuse.org Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:33:48 AM Subject: Re: [opensuse] Can you say ripoff - OT

As much as I hate M$ , let me share my experiences with my new HP dv6171cl , laptop with AMD TL-52 dual core , 2GB Ram , M$ Media Centre. blabla.... I pick it off of the store , i run to my house to shrink the windows partition and install Opensuse-10.2 ok 1) Normal install breaks in partitioning ......good no worries 2) Safe Install goes through....uses nv for Nvidia GeForce Go 6150 ..kernel crashes repeatedly on trying to install libstdc++41-x86_64 , 3) Safe Install Suse-10.0 , hoping kernel is stable , now it crashes more randomly 4) Try and upgrade 10.0 to 10.2 ..install breaks in removal of unused packages 4.1) Install 10.2 in safe mode again... 5) i file X.org bugs in bugzilla.novell.com, reply is 'WONTFIX' please use nvidias proprietary drivers 6) I take another 2 days to get my nvidia driver compiled and running , by googling for hours to figure out that i gotta boot the kernel with noapic 7) In these two days , I try Ubuntu Dapper Drake , for all its worth , the live CD cannot even start X talk abt use friendly...ironic 8) I manage to insert nvidia.ko and restart X using sax , i have had an uptime of 3 days now. 9) My broadcom wireless ( bcm43xx.ko ) doesnot work gotta do some firmware stuff...etc..

I love Linux and Suse ,and i had no qualms abt struggling for 2 weeks before I am all set , do u expect a newbie to buy a laptop and break his head like this , or would he rather pay those exorbitant charges and get a peace of mind and use his laptop....

Is Linux really really ready for "ALL" Desktops ..????

Thanks Digz

[ snip ]

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well have quite a lot sympathy for Digz, and agree with that way of thinking. Have bought Suse box before and latest buy is the 10.2, have a lot of problems to get it running. have got quite a lot of assistance from Penguins in this list too. Know that some newbies just have given up, some critizised the list here to be hostile etc. it looks like there is a gap concerning getting started as a newbie with an installation or solving a problem and the knowledge one can get from wiki's, howto's, or readme texts. To me it looks like the Linux-Penguins (:) ) is taking some basic knowledge for granted that is needed as a newbie. Here I also think of the growing interest from many now ready to leave mr. Gates-greedy and tries to give Linux a try. Most of them gives up and returns to win. Some of the information (probably boring standard knowledge for the Linux-pinguins)) is still needed to assist the migration away from Mr Gready. Fx setting up multimedia there is the neccesary newbie information in the article "Hacking Suse 10.2) = from scratch step by step guide on what to do to get that part working. For newbies it gives indirect information on how to work with setups, another ways to install elements than what a windows user does. Only an extraordinary effort from newbies will let them have a PC/laptop running. Most will give up or try other Linux systems. Or the elite people; everything works from the beginning. As with Digz, I have too problems with Broadcom wiki = a lot of time lies ahead to figure out what is the content of the newbie-gap-linux aspect, what is it the take for granted that I should find/learn out of the blue. So far have struggled the "exam" in Dr.Professor.Niels-Multimedia, Dr.Professor.Niels-USB get working, Dr.Professor.Niels-Sound on laptop, Dr.Professor.Niels-printer working Educations lying ahead (if I live that long): Dr.Professor.Niels-Samba network Dr.Professor.Niels-Broadcom_wiki Dr.Professor.Niels-wxwidgets and ....... well have mentioned the newbie-gap-linux aspect before, just called it the Linux Wall. Well gents and ladies just some thoughts :) Niels -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFpKDs0F77CaBDYxMRAkBRAJ4yC5jMCSYUn5YIPt1VhbqJnPkptACeIczq clnhiYFIiFHWgpyS6aijuMU= =S5ZP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org