Stopping the monitor going into nap-mode
Can anyone tell me how to make the darn monitor turning itself off every 10 minutes when there is no activity? I have the screen saver set to OFF, and the power management set to IGNORE (off) but still the damn thing goes into standby mode - most annoying. And setting the screensaver to activate after 240 minutes has no effect- the standby mode still kicks in. Cheers. -- Don't argue with an idiot, people may not see the difference.
On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 16:55 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to make the darn monitor turning itself off every 10 minutes when there is no activity? I have the screen saver set to OFF, and the power management set to IGNORE (off) but still the damn thing goes into standby mode - most annoying. And setting the screensaver to activate after 240 minutes has no effect- the standby mode still kicks in.
Cheers.
Assuming you are using KDE: In control center Peripherals-->Display Power Control tab Adjust settings according to your wishes. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998
Ken Schneider wrote:
On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 16:55 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to make the darn monitor turning itself off every 10 minutes when there is no activity? I have the screen saver set to OFF, and the power management set to IGNORE (off) but still the damn thing goes into standby mode - most annoying. And setting the screensaver to activate after 240 minutes has no effect- the standby mode still kicks in.
Cheers.
Assuming you are using KDE:
In control center
Peripherals-->Display Power Control tab
Adjust settings according to your wishes.
I had this OFF. I have now ENABLED this feature and set everything to 120 minutes and will now see what will happen. (I seem to recall that I had this set to 120 mins already some days ago but still had the monitor go biddy-byes every 10 minutes - but I may be wrong.) Cheers. -- Don't argue with an idiot, people may not see the difference.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2005-10-16 at 16:55 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to make the darn monitor turning itself off every 10 minutes when there is no activity? I have the screen saver set to OFF, and the power management set to IGNORE (off) but still the damn thing goes into standby mode - most annoying. And setting the screensaver to activate after 240 minutes has no effect- the standby mode still kicks in.
You don't mention where are configuring those settings, because there are several. I'd have a look at /etc/X11/xorg.conf: Section "ServerFlags" Option "AllowMouseOpenFail" Option "RandR" "on" # Option "BlankTime" "10" Option "StandbyTime" "20" Option "SuspendTime" "25" Option "OffTime" "30" EndSection - -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFDUkFKtTMYHG2NR9URAn79AJ9X2Iv6aNvF76dZHfvAaZUUY1LElACfVS8G jRy95SVG5zG83PKn3pyHbhc= =g9Uv -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Sunday 16 October 2005 05:02, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Sunday 2005-10-16 at 16:55 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to make the darn monitor turning itself off every 10 minutes when there is no activity? I have the screen saver set to OFF, and the power management set to IGNORE (off) but still the damn thing goes into standby mode - most annoying. And setting the screensaver to activate after 240 minutes has no effect- the standby mode still kicks in.
You don't mention where are configuring those settings, because there are several. I'd have a look at /etc/X11/xorg.conf:
Section "ServerFlags" Option "AllowMouseOpenFail" Option "RandR" "on" # Option "BlankTime" "10" Option "StandbyTime" "20" Option "SuspendTime" "25" Option "OffTime" "30" EndSection
-- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
Another thought is to check your BIOS for power savings options and disable them there. Bernd
On Sunday 16 October 2005 07:02, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Sunday 2005-10-16 at 16:55 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to make the darn monitor turning itself off every 10 minutes when there is no activity?
0) right-click kpowersave (looks like an electric plug in the tray) 1) select "Configure Powersave" 2) select "Disable display power management" -- ====================================================== Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682) ====================================================== "Greater coherence cannot be achieved. Not even the Netherlanders have managed this." -Anton Webern ======================================================
Carlos E. R. wrote:
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The Sunday 2005-10-16 at 16:55 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to make the darn monitor turning itself off every 10 minutes when there is no activity? I have the screen saver set to OFF, and the power management set to IGNORE (off) but still the damn thing goes into standby mode - most annoying. And setting the screensaver to activate after 240 minutes has no effect- the standby mode still kicks in.
You don't mention where are configuring those settings, because there are several. I'd have a look at /etc/X11/xorg.conf:
Section "ServerFlags" Option "AllowMouseOpenFail" Option "RandR" "on" # Option "BlankTime" "10" Option "StandbyTime" "20" Option "SuspendTime" "25" Option "OffTime" "30" EndSection
Confuguring them on the Desktop, Control Centre, and Yast Modules. I only one entry under the Section you show above and that is the first one, "AllowMouse..." which, in effect, means that I do not have BlankTime nor StandByTime nor any of the others. Yet the monitor insists on falling asleep after 10 minutes. Cheers. -- Don't argue with an idiot, people may not see the difference.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2005-10-18 at 21:33 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
Confuguring them on the Desktop, Control Centre, and Yast Modules.
I only one entry under the Section you show above and that is the first one, "AllowMouse..." which, in effect, means that I do not have BlankTime nor StandByTime nor any of the others. Yet the monitor insists on falling asleep after 10 minutes.
Perhaps... in the section "Monitor", perhaps you have: Option "DPMS" Comment it out, and kill the server (log out, then ctrl-alt-backspace). Or try the command "xset -dpms" to dissable it on the fly. - -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFDVacutTMYHG2NR9URAuCqAJ9m7cA+W8/StP2U/5W+t2qJHuqWgACfXGxw H7TINJd3Pomt1pm9IZ4GQuQ= =WwSq -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Carlos E. R. wrote:
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The Tuesday 2005-10-18 at 21:33 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
Confuguring them on the Desktop, Control Centre, and Yast Modules.
I only one entry under the Section you show above and that is the first one, "AllowMouse..." which, in effect, means that I do not have BlankTime nor StandByTime nor any of the others. Yet the monitor insists on falling asleep after 10 minutes.
Perhaps... in the section "Monitor", perhaps you have:
Option "DPMS"
Comment it out, and kill the server (log out, then ctrl-alt-backspace).
Or try the command "xset -dpms" to dissable it on the fly.
Nope, don't have DPMS as an option :-). I have everything that I know of switched OFF and yet the darn thing keeps going to sleep. Ah, never a dull moment..... (Oh, I have anotheree to bamboozle everyone but I'll keep it for a later day (or night) :-). But stay alert.) Cheers. -- Don't argue with an idiot, people may not see the difference.
Basil Chupin wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
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The Tuesday 2005-10-18 at 21:33 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
Confuguring them on the Desktop, Control Centre, and Yast Modules.
I only one entry under the Section you show above and that is the first one, "AllowMouse..." which, in effect, means that I do not have BlankTime nor StandByTime nor any of the others. Yet the monitor insists on falling asleep after 10 minutes.
Perhaps... in the section "Monitor", perhaps you have:
Option "DPMS"
Comment it out, and kill the server (log out, then ctrl-alt-backspace).
Or try the command "xset -dpms" to dissable it on the fly.
Nope, don't have DPMS as an option :-).
I have everything that I know of switched OFF and yet the darn thing keeps going to sleep. Ah, never a dull moment.....
(Oh, I have anotheree to bamboozle everyone but I'll keep it for a later day (or night) :-). But stay alert.)
Cheers.
I suspect this started happening after I upgraded to KDE 3.5beta (3.4.91) and likewise settings don't affect the behaviour. I wonder if that's the problem or if anyone with the updated KDE isn't having this problem. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, licensed Private Pilot Retired IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2005-10-20 at 12:27 +0100, Sid Boyce wrote:
I suspect this started happening after I upgraded to KDE 3.5beta (3.4.91) and likewise settings don't affect the behaviour. I wonder if that's the problem or if anyone with the updated KDE isn't having this problem.
Then you certainly must try with another desktop before doing any more head scratching! That's a new variable I didn't know about. - -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFDWNTrtTMYHG2NR9URAmBOAJ92onbRIuPB/xkpeGlQZaXgwajBXACfdqBV atk7fzq1M/yl4RyxxI8j+S8= =Tdb5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Tuesday, October 18, 2005 @ 3:33 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
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The Sunday 2005-10-16 at 16:55 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to make the darn monitor turning itself off every 10 minutes when there is no activity? I have the screen saver set to OFF, and the power management set to IGNORE (off) but still the damn thing goes into standby mode - most annoying. And setting the screensaver to activate after 240 minutes has no effect- the standby mode still kicks in.
You don't mention where are configuring those settings, because there are
several. I'd have a look at /etc/X11/xorg.conf:
Section "ServerFlags" Option "AllowMouseOpenFail" Option "RandR" "on" # Option "BlankTime" "10" Option "StandbyTime" "20" Option "SuspendTime" "25" Option "OffTime" "30" EndSection
Confuguring them on the Desktop, Control Centre, and Yast Modules.
I only one entry under the Section you show above and that is the first one, "AllowMouse..." which, in effect, means that I do not have BlankTime nor StandByTime nor any of the others. Yet the monitor insists on falling asleep after 10 minutes.
Cheers.
-- Don't argue with an idiot, people may not see the difference.
Make sure that -- Configure Desktop / Display / Power Control has the "Enbable display power management" unchecked. Greg Wallace
Greg Wallace wrote:
On Tuesday, October 18, 2005 @ 3:33 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
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The Sunday 2005-10-16 at 16:55 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to make the darn monitor turning itself off every
10
minutes when there is no activity? I have the screen saver set to OFF,
and the
power management set to IGNORE (off) but still the damn thing goes into standby mode - most annoying. And setting the screensaver to activate
after
240 minutes has no effect- the standby mode still kicks in.
You don't mention where are configuring those settings, because there are
several. I'd have a look at /etc/X11/xorg.conf:
Section "ServerFlags" Option "AllowMouseOpenFail" Option "RandR" "on" # Option "BlankTime" "10" Option "StandbyTime" "20" Option "SuspendTime" "25" Option "OffTime" "30" EndSection
Confuguring them on the Desktop, Control Centre, and Yast Modules.
I only one entry under the Section you show above and that is the first one, "AllowMouse..." which, in effect, means that I do not have BlankTime nor StandByTime nor any of the others. Yet the monitor insists on falling asleep after 10 minutes.
Cheers.
-- Don't argue with an idiot, people may not see the difference.
Make sure that --
Configure Desktop / Display / Power Control has the "Enbable display power management" unchecked.
Greg Wallace
Yep, one of the very first things to be turned off when I first booted 10.0. Cheers. -- Don't argue with an idiot, people may not see the difference.
Greg Wallace wrote:
On Tuesday, October 18, 2005 @ 3:33 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
The Sunday 2005-10-16 at 16:55 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to make the darn monitor turning itself off every
10
minutes when there is no activity? I have the screen saver set to OFF,
and the
power management set to IGNORE (off) but still the damn thing goes into standby mode - most annoying. And setting the screensaver to activate
after
240 minutes has no effect- the standby mode still kicks in.
You don't mention where are configuring those settings, because there are
several. I'd have a look at /etc/X11/xorg.conf:
Section "ServerFlags" Option "AllowMouseOpenFail" Option "RandR" "on" # Option "BlankTime" "10" Option "StandbyTime" "20" Option "SuspendTime" "25" Option "OffTime" "30" EndSection
Confuguring them on the Desktop, Control Centre, and Yast Modules.
I only one entry under the Section you show above and that is the first one, "AllowMouse..." which, in effect, means that I do not have BlankTime nor StandByTime nor any of the others. Yet the monitor insists on falling asleep after 10 minutes.
Cheers.
-- Don't argue with an idiot, people may not see the difference.
Make sure that --
Configure Desktop / Display / Power Control has the "Enbable display
On Wednesday, October 19, 2005 @ 3:14 AM, Basil Chupin wrote: power
management" unchecked.
Greg Wallace
Yep, one of the very first things to be turned off when I first booted 10.0.
Cheers.
-- Don't argue with an idiot, people may not see the difference.
Here's what I have set under /etc/sysconfig/powersave/scheme_Desktop, the one I'm using (set via YaST). I spent a few days trying to solve the same problem you're having and this is what ended up working for me (along with the screensaver settings, etc., discussed earlier under configure desktop). I have posted this before, but I think it was in an earlier thread with someone else. POWERSAVE_SCHEME_NAME="Desktop" POWERSAVE_SCHEME_DESCRIPTION="Desktop" POWERSAVE_CPUFREQUENCY="performance" POWERSAVE_ALLOW_THROTTLING="no" POWERSAVE_MAX_THROTTLING="50" POWERSAVE_DISK_STANDBY_MODE="off" POWERSAVE_DISK_ACOUSTIC="performance" POWERSAVE_USER_INPUT_TIMEOUT="100" POWERSAVE_ACTION_USER_INPUT_TIMEOUT="screen_saver" POWERSAVE_COOLING_POLICY="active" POWERSAVE_ALWAYS_THROTTLE="no" POWERSAVE_DISABLE_DISPLAY_SETTINGS="no" POWERSAVE_DISABLE_SCREEN_SAVER="no" POWERSAVE_DISABLE_DPMS="no" POWERSAVE_DPMS_STANDBY="5" POWERSAVE_DPMS_SUSPEND="7" POWERSAVE_DPMS_OFF="10" Greg Wallace -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Greg Wallace wrote:
On Wednesday, October 19, 2005 @ 3:14 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
Make sure that --
Configure Desktop / Display / Power Control has the "Enbable display
power
management" unchecked.
Greg Wallace
Yep, one of the very first things to be turned off when I first booted
10.0.
Cheers.
-- Don't argue with an idiot, people may not see the difference.
Here's what I have set under /etc/sysconfig/powersave/scheme_Desktop, the one I'm using (set via YaST). I spent a few days trying to solve the same problem you're having and this is what ended up working for me (along with the screensaver settings, etc., discussed earlier under configure desktop). I have posted this before, but I think it was in an earlier thread with someone else.
POWERSAVE_SCHEME_NAME="Desktop" POWERSAVE_SCHEME_DESCRIPTION="Desktop" POWERSAVE_CPUFREQUENCY="performance" POWERSAVE_ALLOW_THROTTLING="no" POWERSAVE_MAX_THROTTLING="50" POWERSAVE_DISK_STANDBY_MODE="off" POWERSAVE_DISK_ACOUSTIC="performance" POWERSAVE_USER_INPUT_TIMEOUT="100" POWERSAVE_ACTION_USER_INPUT_TIMEOUT="screen_saver" POWERSAVE_COOLING_POLICY="active" POWERSAVE_ALWAYS_THROTTLE="no" POWERSAVE_DISABLE_DISPLAY_SETTINGS="no" POWERSAVE_DISABLE_SCREEN_SAVER="no" POWERSAVE_DISABLE_DPMS="no" POWERSAVE_DPMS_STANDBY="5" POWERSAVE_DPMS_SUSPEND="7" POWERSAVE_DPMS_OFF="10"
Greg Wallace
Thanks for this, Greg. I didn't have a file called scheme_Desktop so created it with the parameters you state above. I'll see what will now happen re the monitor. Cheers. -- Don't argue with an idiot, people may not see the difference.
On Thursday, October 20, 2005 @ 11:58 PM, Basil Chupin wrote
Greg Wallace wrote:
On Wednesday, October 19, 2005 @ 3:14 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
Make sure that --
Configure Desktop / Display / Power Control has the "Enbable display
power
management" unchecked.
Greg Wallace
Yep, one of the very first things to be turned off when I first booted
10.0.
Cheers.
-- Don't argue with an idiot, people may not see the difference.
Here's what I have set under /etc/sysconfig/powersave/scheme_Desktop, the one I'm using (set via YaST). I spent a few days trying to solve the same problem you're having and this is what ended up working for me (along with the screensaver settings, etc., discussed earlier under configure desktop). I have posted this before, but I think it was in an earlier thread with someone else.
POWERSAVE_SCHEME_NAME="Desktop" POWERSAVE_SCHEME_DESCRIPTION="Desktop" POWERSAVE_CPUFREQUENCY="performance" POWERSAVE_ALLOW_THROTTLING="no" POWERSAVE_MAX_THROTTLING="50" POWERSAVE_DISK_STANDBY_MODE="off" POWERSAVE_DISK_ACOUSTIC="performance" POWERSAVE_USER_INPUT_TIMEOUT="100" POWERSAVE_ACTION_USER_INPUT_TIMEOUT="screen_saver" POWERSAVE_COOLING_POLICY="active" POWERSAVE_ALWAYS_THROTTLE="no" POWERSAVE_DISABLE_DISPLAY_SETTINGS="no" POWERSAVE_DISABLE_SCREEN_SAVER="no" POWERSAVE_DISABLE_DPMS="no" POWERSAVE_DPMS_STANDBY="5" POWERSAVE_DPMS_SUSPEND="7" POWERSAVE_DPMS_OFF="10"
Greg Wallace
Thanks for this, Greg. I didn't have a file called scheme_Desktop so created it with the parameters you state above. I'll see what will now happen re the monitor.
Cheers.
-- Don't argue with an idiot, people may not see the difference.
The way I got this is by going into YaST and going through the step by step of creating a new scheme. I just picked Desktop and that's what ended up going into that directory. I somehow managed to pick the right answers to the questions going through that step by step. At least it worked for me. Since it did work, I decided to save off a copy of all of the parameters. That's where this came from. I would go to YaST and confirm that this scheme is indeed being set as your computer's scheme. Worst case is you could go through the step by step and then verify what it created against my list and tune accordingly (via manual modification). Greg Wallace
On Saturday, October 15, 2005 @ 10:55 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to make the darn monitor turning itself off every 10 minutes when there is no activity? I have the screen saver set to OFF, and the power management set to IGNORE (off) but still the damn thing goes into standby mode - most annoying. And setting the screensaver to activate after 240 minutes has no effect- the standby mode still kicks in.
Cheers.
-- Don't argue with an idiot, people may not see the difference.
I had the same problem. If you go into YaST under Powersave and create a brand new scheme, it walks you through a step by step with some decent descriptions of what each option is doing on the left. Here's a new scheme that I ended up with. My screen saver comes on after 4 minutes and stays on. POWERSAVE_SCHEME_NAME="Desktop" POWERSAVE_SCHEME_DESCRIPTION="Desktop" POWERSAVE_CPUFREQUENCY="performance" POWERSAVE_ALLOW_THROTTLING="no" POWERSAVE_MAX_THROTTLING="50" POWERSAVE_DISK_STANDBY_MODE="off" POWERSAVE_DISK_ACOUSTIC="performance" POWERSAVE_USER_INPUT_TIMEOUT="100" POWERSAVE_ACTION_USER_INPUT_TIMEOUT="screen_saver" POWERSAVE_COOLING_POLICY="active" POWERSAVE_ALWAYS_THROTTLE="no" POWERSAVE_DISABLE_DISPLAY_SETTINGS="no" POWERSAVE_DISABLE_SCREEN_SAVER="no" POWERSAVE_DISABLE_DPMS="no" POWERSAVE_DPMS_STANDBY="5" POWERSAVE_DPMS_SUSPEND="7" POWERSAVE_DPMS_OFF="10" Greg Wallace
Greg Wallace wrote:
On Saturday, October 15, 2005 @ 10:55 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to make the darn monitor turning itself off every 10 minutes when there is no activity? I have the screen saver set to OFF, and the power management set to IGNORE (off) but still the damn thing goes into standby mode - most annoying. And setting the screensaver to activate after 240 minutes has no effect- the standby mode still kicks in.
Cheers.
-- Don't argue with an idiot, people may not see the difference.
I had the same problem. If you go into YaST under Powersave and create a brand new scheme, it walks you through a step by step with some decent descriptions of what each option is doing on the left. Here's a new scheme that I ended up with. My screen saver comes on after 4 minutes and stays on.
POWERSAVE_SCHEME_NAME="Desktop" POWERSAVE_SCHEME_DESCRIPTION="Desktop" POWERSAVE_CPUFREQUENCY="performance" POWERSAVE_ALLOW_THROTTLING="no" POWERSAVE_MAX_THROTTLING="50" POWERSAVE_DISK_STANDBY_MODE="off" POWERSAVE_DISK_ACOUSTIC="performance" POWERSAVE_USER_INPUT_TIMEOUT="100" POWERSAVE_ACTION_USER_INPUT_TIMEOUT="screen_saver" POWERSAVE_COOLING_POLICY="active" POWERSAVE_ALWAYS_THROTTLE="no" POWERSAVE_DISABLE_DISPLAY_SETTINGS="no" POWERSAVE_DISABLE_SCREEN_SAVER="no" POWERSAVE_DISABLE_DPMS="no" POWERSAVE_DPMS_STANDBY="5" POWERSAVE_DPMS_SUSPEND="7" POWERSAVE_DPMS_OFF="10"
Greg Wallace
As my original message states, I have the screen saver set to OFF - I don't like screen savers, they're a waste of time. And as my reply to Carlos states, I have (or so it would appear) all the powersaving parameters de-activated. However, you seem to suggest that creating a new profile with the above may solve the problem. OK, thanks for the above - I'll give it a try. Cheers. -- Don't argue with an idiot, people may not see the difference.
On Tuesday 18 October 2005 07:37 am, Basil Chupin wrote:
As my original message states, I have the screen saver set to OFF - I don't like screen savers, they're a waste of time.
Remove 'Option DPMS' from the monitor section of your /etc/X11/xorg.conf
Bruce Marshall wrote:
On Tuesday 18 October 2005 07:37 am, Basil Chupin wrote:
As my original message states, I have the screen saver set to OFF - I don't like screen savers, they're a waste of time.
Remove 'Option DPMS' from the monitor section of your
/etc/X11/xorg.conf
It ain't there to begin with :-). Cheers. -- Don't argue with an idiot, people may not see the difference.
On Tuesday 18 October 2005 04:37, Basil Chupin wrote:
Greg Wallace wrote: ...
As my original message states, I have the screen saver set to OFF - I don't like screen savers, they're a waste of time.
If your system runs something such as one of the distributed computing projects, then this argument is valid, otherwise not. Note, too, that the KDE screen-saver control panel has three priority settings. And there are screen-savers that consume minimal CPU. Vermiculate is a good choice from that perspective as well as from a visual appeal point of view (which is, of course, entirely a matter of taste). What's more to the point is that most of screen savers don't save the screen! The pattern is not fixed, but they still send a lot of electrons at the phosphor. Up until I got an LCD flat-panel, I used plain old screen blanking (as well as timed power-down, of course). Now I can use one of the eye-candy "savers."
...
Randall Schulz
participants (9)
-
Basil Chupin
-
Bernd
-
Bruce Marshall
-
Carlos E. R.
-
Glenn Holmer
-
Greg Wallace
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Ken Schneider
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Randall R Schulz
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Sid Boyce