[opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

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Joachim Schrod

7 Jun 2008 7 Jun '08

08:37

Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 12:31:46 +0200 (CEST), Carlos E. R. wrote:

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But then there is a large list listing every single file and directory that the rpm has to have.

You don't necessarily need such a large list. If you write your own spec file and use a build root (as nearly all packages do),

Here is your first and major misconception. Arbitrary source tar-balls from the Net do *NOT* usually use build roots. This discussion is *NOT* about rpm source packages or something like that. It's about source tar-balls from the Net. Something like the stuff you get from CPAN, where you call perl Makefile.pl, make, make test, make install to get it going. Where is the build root there? Many source tar-balls don't even support DISTDIR in the Makefile, and one has to go through hoops to get information what is installed my make install to create a spec file afterwards. And setting a (probably even chroot'ed) build root up is a task for an experienced programmer and not for someone who just wants a local RPM package quickly done (say, for a perl module that's not available at SUSE's repository). If you don't recognize that, you lost contact with the your user base. (Please note, I *know* how to handle these situations and I have my own build environments for cases like this. But I see the problem that Carlos and others are facing, while you don't seem to see them.) Cheers, Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod Email: jschrod@acm.org Roedermark, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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Clayton

7 Jun 7 Jun

08:45

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

...

And setting a (probably even chroot'ed) build root up is a task for an experienced programmer and not for someone who just wants a local RPM package quickly done (say, for a perl module that's not available at SUSE's repository).

If you don't recognize that, you lost contact with the your user base. (Please note, I *know* how to handle these situations and I have my own build environments for cases like this. But I see the problem that Carlos and others are facing, while you don't seem to see them.)

Well stated, and VERY accurate. I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you for being so clear and articulate on this Joachim. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

09:20

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2008-06-07 at 10:37 +0200, Joachim Schrod wrote:

...

...
...
But then there is a large list listing every single file and directory that the rpm has to have.

You don't necessarily need such a large list. If you write your own spec file and use a build root (as nearly all packages do),

Here is your first and major misconception. Arbitrary source tar-balls from the Net do *NOT* usually use build roots. This discussion is *NOT* about rpm source packages or something like that. It's about source tar-balls from the Net. Something like the stuff you get from CPAN, where you call perl Makefile.pl, make, make test, make install to get it going. Where is the build root there?

Many source tar-balls don't even support DISTDIR in the Makefile, and one has to go through hoops to get information what is installed my make install to create a spec file afterwards.

And setting a (probably even chroot'ed) build root up is a task for an experienced programmer and not for someone who just wants a local RPM package quickly done (say, for a perl module that's not available at SUSE's repository).

If you don't recognize that, you lost contact with the your user base. (Please note, I *know* how to handle these situations and I have my own build environments for cases like this. But I see the problem that Carlos and others are facing, while you don't seem to see them.)

Thanks. That's it. I wouldn't have the foggiest idea how to construct a chroot to build the things I do with checkinstall now. By the way, the checkinstall FAQ recognizes it doesn't work with SUID programs since 2002/11/25 at least! ] CheckInstall can't trace (yet) the actions of three kind of binaries: ] * SUID programs ] * SGID programs ] * Statically linked binaries ... ] $Id: FAQ,v 1.6 2002/11/25 21:54:19 izto Exp $ That's nothing new, I don't see why it would have to be dropped from the distro now - which fortunately was not, factory has checkinstall. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISlL5tTMYHG2NR9URAocNAJ9DmmoTIXEAQbI8RJVAGlG+Q4eRbQCeNmPL 1C1r8G6YJaXO7faYfKj/2/g= =HbeV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

11:01

On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 10:37:20 +0200, Joachim Schrod wrote:

...

Here is your first and major misconception. Arbitrary source tar-balls from the Net do *NOT* usually use build roots.

...

that. It's about source tar-balls from the Net. Something like the stuff you get from CPAN, where you call perl Makefile.pl, make, make test, make install to get it going. Where is the build root there?

For these there isn't one, but that's a case why you should be using the build script, i.e. build in a chroot environment.

...

And setting a (probably even chroot'ed) build root up is a task for an experienced programmer and not for someone who just wants a local RPM package quickly done

The chroot'ed build root is rather easy when you use our build script :) Take a random source package, put the packages you need for the real package in its BuildRequires and stop the script after it has set up the chroot environment: et voila, you have what you need.

...

If you don't recognize that, you lost contact with the your user base.

I tend to believe that most of our user base does not compile their own packages.

...

But I see the problem that Carlos and others are facing, while you don't seem to see them.

I do see the problems (to a degree) but I tend to not see them as being so severe. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Clayton

11:39

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

...

The chroot'ed build root is rather easy when you use our build script :) Take a random source package, put the packages you need for the real package in its BuildRequires and stop the script after it has set up the chroot environment: et voila, you have what you need.

This discussion is starting to sound like one side is Steve: http://www.ubergeek.tv/article.php?pid=54 and the other is normal people.

...

I tend to believe that most of our user base does not compile their own packages.

Based on what information? I tend to believe that a a significant portion of the user base does compile their own packages. There, my statement has just as much merit as yours. Neither has any proof and both are equally likely to be wrong. I use checkinstall in almost every openSUSE install I do. There are custom bits here and there I want to use, that I compile locally, and I want installed as RPMs. I don't have the time or interest to use the build service nor to chroot a local build environment. I'm not a Steve... well... not as much of a Steve as those here who are saying "it's just so easy" (to paraphrase)

...

I do see the problems (to a degree) but I tend to not see them as being so severe.

Why is that? Maybe because you are used to and familiar with the more complex methods of building an RPM? Something your average user is not knowledgeable enough to deal with... checkinstall is already at the limits... No one is saying that a chrooted environ is a bad way to do it.. we all likely recognize that it is a more "proper" way of building RPMs, but... but.. and here's the clincher... we're not building for redistribution.... we are building only for local needs. I do not want to futz around with a chrooted build environment... I want to do config, make, checkistall, rpm -ivh package.rpm and get on with life. The prime reason I use checkinstall and then install the rpm (instead of make install)... ease of maintenance. If I decide I want to remove the app, it's so much easier to do an rpm -e package than to hope I kept the source around, and that a make uninstall will work. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Damon Register

12:40

Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 10:37:20 +0200, Joachim Schrod wrote:

...
And setting a (probably even chroot'ed) build root up is a task for an experienced programmer and not for someone who just wants a local RPM package quickly done

The chroot'ed build root is rather easy when you use our build script :) This seems a lot like a discussion I am having in the gtkmm list and a lot like discussions I have had at work. Though I have been working with Linux for almost 10 years, I consider myself a novice comapared to users like you. Some things might be easy for you but not so obvious for the average user.

...

Take a random source package, put the packages you need for the real package in its BuildRequires and stop the script after it has set up the chroot environment: et voila, you have what you need. That might be easy for you to say but you could have written that in German and I would have been equally confused.

...

I tend to believe that most of our user base does not compile their own packages. I have to disagree. While I certainly can't speak for other users, I suspect that if a peasant user like me does it from time to time, probably others do too.

...

...
But I see the problem that Carlos and others are facing, while you don't seem to see them. If this is a problem for Carlos, I am doomed. I view Carlos as an expert and if he is having trouble, it would be worse for me.

...

I do see the problems (to a degree) but I tend to not see them as being so severe. I would like to ask (respectfully I hope) that you please try to view from the eyes of others for whom it isn't so easy.

Damon Register -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

16:30

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 4:01 AM, Philipp Thomas wrote:

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Joachim Wrote:

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If you don't recognize that, you lost contact with the your user base.

I tend to believe that most of our user base does not compile their own packages.

So Joachim was correct then... We are nut Ubuntu users here. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

16:32

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 9:30 AM, John Andersen wrote:

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We are nut Ubuntu users here.

I was going to correct my spelling error to say NOT Ubuntu users, but on second thought, in deference to Philipp, I will leave it as Nut. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

16:41

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 09:32:36 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

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on second thought, in deference to Philipp, I will leave it as Nut.

Sigh, I just should never have started the discussion. Let's just agree to disagree :( Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Wolfgang Woehl

18:33

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

Philipp Thomas:

...

Sigh, I just should never have started the discussion.

Right. What's there to discuss? You made a mistake, it happens. Nothing substantial in checkinstall or preload mechanism has changed. So checkinstall works of course and you will undrop it. Like on monday, ok? Thanks for your work. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

19:09

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2008-06-07 at 20:33 +0200, Wolfgang Woehl wrote:

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Philipp Thomas:

...
Sigh, I just should never have started the discussion.

Right. What's there to discuss? You made a mistake, it happens.

Nothing substantial in checkinstall or preload mechanism has changed. So checkinstall works of course and you will undrop it. Like on monday, ok? Thanks for your work.

+1 :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISt0KtTMYHG2NR9URAlZJAJ4g5yMf3XCLSSJaqq5ANwZqRBhdOQCeONFu 1zaIb6zX5bTJ9ORQt5oeygo= =Z6Ec -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

20:00

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:33:12 +0200, Wolfgang Woehl wrote:

...

Right. What's there to discuss? You made a mistake, it happens.

The only mistake I made was to think I had dropped it :) As I already wrote, I had wanted to do it but somehow never really did it, as an installation of openSUSE 11.0 RC2 showed me. Now the only thing left is to think of how I may possibly pass on the knowledge so that people stop using checkinstall. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

20:23

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

Now the only thing left is to think of how I may possibly pass on the knowledge so that people stop using checkinstall.

Philipp --

Or plan to find a better package than the one you intend to drop PRIOR to planning to drop something. Of course this first requires that you grant that a package has some purpose, even if not for you, and that the people who developed it in the first place as well as those who use it deserve a little respect. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hans Witvliet

22:27

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

On Sat, 2008-06-07 at 13:23 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

...

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Philipp Thomas wrote:

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Now the only thing left is to think of how I may possibly pass on the knowledge so that people stop using checkinstall.

Philipp --

Or plan to find a better package than the one you intend to drop PRIOR to planning to drop something.

Of course this first requires that you grant that a package has some purpose, even if not for you, and that the people who developed it in the first place as well as those who use it deserve a little respect.

Well, just to interrupt this friendly conversation.... Eventhough "package-management" decided to drop the package for probably good reasons, Nobody stops you from storing the package on the OBS, where it can live happily ever after, not? If it needs maintenance, drop a line to: "Felipe Eduardo Sanchez Diaz Duran " As he is the original author of the code. hw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

8 Jun 8 Jun

14:27

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse

On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 13:23:21 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

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Of course this first requires that you grant that a package has some purpose,

Guess why I maintain the SuSE package? A look at the changelog would have shown you that. And guess what, I wouldn't do that if I thought it had no value. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Andrei Verovski (aka MacGuru)

7 Jun 7 Jun

20:39

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

On Saturday 07 June 2008 11:00:14 pm Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

Now the only thing left is to think of how I may possibly pass on the knowledge so that people stop using checkinstall.

Or even better, how to tweak SuSE 11.0/Checkinstall to be compatible with each other :-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

James Knott

23:43

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:33:12 +0200, Wolfgang Woehl wrote:

...
Right. What's there to discuss? You made a mistake, it happens.

The only mistake I made was to think I had dropped it :) As I already wrote, I had wanted to do it but somehow never really did it, as an installation of openSUSE 11.0 RC2 showed me.

Now the only thing left is to think of how I may possibly pass on the knowledge so that people stop using checkinstall.

Philipp

Before you do that, make sure there's a viable replacement available. Otherwise you'll be creating a problem for many users. -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

8 Jun 8 Jun

00:03

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 4:43 PM, James Knott wrote:

...

Philipp Thomas wrote:

...
On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:33:12 +0200, Wolfgang Woehl wrote:

...
Right. What's there to discuss? You made a mistake, it happens.

The only mistake I made was to think I had dropped it :) As I already wrote, I had wanted to do it but somehow never really did it, as an installation of openSUSE 11.0 RC2 showed me.

Now the only thing left is to think of how I may possibly pass on the knowledge so that people stop using checkinstall.

Philipp

Before you do that, make sure there's a viable replacement available. Otherwise you'll be creating a problem for many users.

Which kind of points out a problem with the supposedly Community driven model that OpenSuse claims to follow here: https://users.opensuse.org/guidingprinciples (especially all of those things listed under "We Value...", such as openness, choice, transparency etc etc.) With no request for input, one guy decided to drop the Checkinstall package. The fact that it snuck thru anyway was due to the fact that he failed to communicate: even to his own team. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

14:42

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse

On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 17:03:16 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

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With no request for input, one guy decided to drop the Checkinstall package.

And? Where's would the problem have been? Whoever wants to maintain it would have been free to grab the source rpm and maintain it in the openSUSE buildservice.

...

The fact that it snuck thru anyway was due to the fact that he failed to communicate: even to his own team.

Nice try, but you failed :) The reason that it snuck through was because I never filed a real drop request, as a package maintainer can't simply drop it himself. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

14:47

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse

On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 19:43:19 -0400, James Knott wrote:

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Before you do that, make sure there's a viable replacement available.

Do what? Where did I speak of removing checkinstall? I just would like to try and show interested people that it isn't that hard to do rpms, specially for perl packages, believing that those who know how to do it directly will stop using checkinstall. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

20:00

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 7:47 AM, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 19:43:19 -0400, James Knott wrote:

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Before you do that, make sure there's a viable replacement available.

Do what? Where did I speak of removing checkinstall?

Precisely here: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2008-06/msg00374.html archives suck some times, don't they. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Damon Register

11:09

I was just reading again the messages in this thread and realized that I missed something when I wrote my last post on this. Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

For these there isn't one, but that's a case why you should be using the build script, i.e. build in a chroot environment. you are referring to the scipt and procedure described in http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Build_Tutorial and http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/11793.html ?

...

The chroot'ed build root is rather easy when you use our build script :) Take a random source package, put the packages you need for the real package in its BuildRequires and stop the script after it has set up the chroot environment: et voila, you have what you need. sounds easy enough but is that another case of being easy only if you're Philipp Thomas? :-)

...

I do see the problems (to a degree) but I tend to not see them as being so severe. So if you feel that it isn't so hard and that this is the way to go, are you willing to help the rest of us "see the light"? Can you teach an online class here is this list where you walk us through some real world example using the build procedure?

Damon Register -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

14:53

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 07:09:37 -0400, Damon Register wrote:

...

So if you feel that it isn't so hard and that this is the way to go, are you willing to help the rest of us "see the light"?

Yes.

...

Can you teach an online class here in this list where you walk us through some real world example using the build procedure?

I honestly don't know, as I've never done anything even remotely like it and this list wouldn't be the right place anyway. Maybe IRC would be a suitable media? Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

10:19

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse

On Sunday 08 June 2008 09:53:51 am Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 07:09:37 -0400, Damon Register wrote:

...
So if you feel that it isn't so hard and that this is the way to go, are you willing to help the rest of us "see the light"?

Yes.

...
Can you teach an online class here in this list where you walk us through some real world example using the build procedure?

I honestly don't know, as I've never done anything even remotely like it and this list wouldn't be the right place anyway. Maybe IRC would be a suitable media?

Philipp

The openSUSE wiki is good way. Write once, link many times. It is not necessary that article covers too much: Few examples are here http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Build_Tutorial -- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

17:43

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 05:19:34 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:

...

The openSUSE wiki is good way. Write once, link many times.

Nah, I don't think it's suitable for this as the interactivity is missing. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

19:55

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 10:43 AM, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 05:19:34 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:

...
The openSUSE wiki is good way. Write once, link many times.

Nah, I don't think it's suitable for this as the interactivity is missing.

What good does the interactivity do for the user wanting to learn this next summer? IRC is a total waste of time. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

15:10

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse

On Sunday 08 June 2008 02:55:09 pm John Andersen wrote:

...

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 10:43 AM, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 05:19:34 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:

...
The openSUSE wiki is good way. Write once, link many times.

Nah, I don't think it's suitable for this as the interactivity is missing.

What good does the interactivity do for the user wanting to learn this next summer?

IRC is a total waste of time.

Yes and no John. Each has its application. Wiki is good to document stuff, but if you have questions than IRC can be very fast help, although it has limitation in global community as it doesn't cut well when questions come from all time zones. I guess that Philip will do the best to lay basics on the wiki, and include links to IRC and packaging mail list. -- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

23:33

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 8:10 AM, Rajko M. wrote:

...

On Sunday 08 June 2008 02:55:09 pm John Andersen wrote:

...
On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 10:43 AM, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 05:19:34 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:

...
The openSUSE wiki is good way. Write once, link many times.

Nah, I don't think it's suitable for this as the interactivity is missing.

What good does the interactivity do for the user wanting to learn this next summer?

IRC is a total waste of time.

Yes and no John. Each has its application. Wiki is good to document stuff, but if you have questions than IRC can be very fast help, although it has limitation in global community as it doesn't cut well when questions come from all time zones.

I guess that Philip will do the best to lay basics on the wiki, and include links to IRC and packaging mail list.

I should have said IRC is a waste of Philipp's time, unless he plans to do it 24/7 for years to come. Do it once, put it in the wiki and edit the Wiki to include follow-up questions. Let others add to it, and pretty soon you have a complete How-To. Thats what wikis are for, No? -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

9 Jun 9 Jun

00:57

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 16:33:43 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

...

I should have said IRC is a waste of Philipp's time, unless he plans to do it 24/7 for years to come.

Ah, so tutorials/workshops are 24/7 for years to come?

...

Let others add to it, and pretty soon you have a complete How-To. Thats what wikis are for, No?

But not for something resembling an online workshop and that's what I have in mind. Be it as it may, I'd like people to propose packages that they would like to be packaged so that I have a list to choose from. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

01:40

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 16:33:43 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

...
I should have said IRC is a waste of Philipp's time, unless he plans to do it 24/7 for years to come.

Ah, so tutorials/workshops are 24/7 for years to come?

...
Let others add to it, and pretty soon you have a complete How-To. Thats what wikis are for, No?

But not for something resembling an online workshop and that's what I have in mind.

And that is what will largely be a waste of time. Yours and Mine and anyone else who need this knowledge but can't attend this particular event via IRC. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

10:37

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2008-06-08 at 18:40 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

...

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Philipp Thomas <> wrote:

...

...
But not for something resembling an online workshop and that's what I have in mind.

And that is what will largely be a waste of time. Yours and Mine and anyone else who need this knowledge but can't attend this particular event via IRC.

I have never attended any IRC meeting. I don't even know "how". However, if the result is compiled and posted in a wiki so that anybody can read it and learn, then it would be useful. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFITQfRtTMYHG2NR9URAnrhAKCWRj00GH7OU3HGBhhXyRlg4hhWWQCbB9YJ fCMZmfjUXvL4mwUsce62N/g= =dtxk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

02:23

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse

On Sunday 08 June 2008 07:57:11 pm Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 16:33:43 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

...
I should have said IRC is a waste of Philipp's time, unless he plans to do it 24/7 for years to come.

Ah, so tutorials/workshops are 24/7 for years to come?

...
Let others add to it, and pretty soon you have a complete How-To. Thats what wikis are for, No?

But not for something resembling an online workshop and that's what I have in mind.

Some paperwork^w document for those that can be in the right place and time to prepare for workshop?

...

Be it as it may, I'd like people to propose packages that they would like to be packaged so that I have a list to choose from.

That's another pair of shoes :-)

...

Philipp

-- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

10:44

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-06-09 at 02:57 +0200, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

Be it as it may, I'd like people to propose packages that they would like to be packaged so that I have a list to choose from.

Samples: xine-ui, xine-lib, because I compile them dieferently. Alpine, because it was Beta. yast2-trans-es, because I participated translating yast. Things I haave compiled at some time or other: gxine, oxine, balsa, djvu, zapping, mythtv, SearchAndRescue, libjsw, yiff, yconsole, fgfs, simgear, postfix, kshowmail, par2, aMule, aria2c, mldonkey, rosegarden, yast2-trans-es, manedit, lyx, exptools... - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFITQmntTMYHG2NR9URAsKkAJ97CdO9NqjzHIa6y52KfUfSIenV8wCfcaon 0PJwdxXjr60lOexSWegjx+4= =oM2k -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Damon Register

12:31

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse

Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

But not for something resembling an online workshop and that's what I have in mind. Were you referring to the IRC or this list? I noticed someone commented on the time zone issue with IRC so I hope that we just use this list and wait for each participant to complete. Since we aren't trying to fix some critical problem, time is not really an issue, right?

...

Be it as it may, I'd like people to propose packages that they would like to be packaged so that I have a list to choose from. I don't have any preference but perhaps a perl one could be included.

Damon Register -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

13:11

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Packaging tutorial (was: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse)

* Damon Register (damon.w.register@lmco.com) [20080609 14:32]:

...

Were you referring to the IRC or this list?

Neither :) I have been convinced that a tutorial in the openSUSE wiki is the best way. Additional questions could be dealt with on a mailing list, but it would be opensuse-packaging or opensuse-programming and not this ml.

...

I don't have any preference but perhaps a perl one could be included.

I guess I'll start with CPAN module. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hans Krueger

13:18

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Packaging tutorial

Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

* Damon Register (damon.w.register@lmco.com) [20080609 14:32]:

...
Were you referring to the IRC or this list?

Neither :) I have been convinced that a tutorial in the openSUSE wiki is the best way. Additional questions could be dealt with on a mailing list, but it would be opensuse-packaging or opensuse-programming and not this ml.

...
I don't have any preference but perhaps a perl one could be included.

I guess I'll start with CPAN module.

Philipp

this is getting good please keep us informed -- Hans Krueger hanskrueger007@roadrunner.com registered Linux user 289023 411024 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Constant Brouerius van Nidek

15:07

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Packaging tutorial

On Monday 09 June 2008, Hans Krueger wrote:

...

Philipp Thomas wrote:

...
* Damon Register (damon.w.register@lmco.com) [20080609 14:32]:

...
Were you referring to the IRC or this list?

Neither :) I have been convinced that a tutorial in the openSUSE wiki is the best way. Additional questions could be dealt with on a mailing list, but it would be opensuse-packaging or opensuse-programming and not this ml.

...
I don't have any preference but perhaps a perl one could be included.

I guess I'll start with CPAN module.

Philipp

this is getting good please keep us informed

Just to show you difficult it would be to go from Checkinstall to packaging or to writing a .spec file is the list of favored programs to include into preferred list. I had to look up CPAN. found "Comprehensive Perl Archive Network " and after reading the wiki I am still troubled. It is a area which I have never been in. Anything more difficult than the checkinstall mechanism is a travel into misery land. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

G T Smith

10 Jun 10 Jun

08:32

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Packaging tutorial

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

* Damon Register (damon.w.register@lmco.com) [20080609 14:32]:

<snip>

...

...
I don't have any preference but perhaps a perl one could be included.

I guess I'll start with CPAN module.

Philipp

I have not been checking the messages from this list for the last couple of days so response is a little late. CPAN and the cpan installation script are a very well organized distribution mechanism which includes a local database tracking locally installed modules. Both the cpan script and the modules change quite frequently and to generate static RPMs may not be the best way forward and does sail rather close to reinventing the wheel. What might be more appropriate would be to create a YaST front end to the CPAN local database and cpan script. One of the issues with at least compiled Perl modules is that often there is no immediately obvious indication of what development headers are required for the successful installation of the module. If the SuSE RPM based database and the CPAN requirements can be integrated in some way one may save a lot of people a lot of work. (and in giving the user community access to a large range of tools with relatively little effort). Just a thought (BTW a similar approach may be appropriate for PEAR)... In addition to what has been suggested. What would also be handy is some method of generating RPMs for some of the more useful eclipse plugins (EPIC for Perl, the PHP support and QT for Java and C/C++ ). For reasons that elude me the Eclipse plugin writers have a rather incoherent approach to installing an eclipse plugin (despite the fact they all end up in the same place). - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFITjwcasN0sSnLmgIRAuu4AKCDBUDAukeR7n26Jn+3j1OEGzWAbgCgqubv LR0g9K0/77wAtNqI5PNzmeg= =/4Pb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

11 Jun 11 Jun

00:26

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Packaging tutorial

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 09:32:29 +0100, G T Smith wrote:

...

Both the cpan script and the modules change quite frequently and to generate static RPMs may not be the best way forward and does sail rather close to reinventing the wheel.

What if non perl packages need perl modules? On an RPM system you need to use rpm to record dependencies.

...

What might be more appropriate would be to create a YaST front end to the CPAN local database and cpan script.

That might be so. Why don't you bring up the subject on opensuse-factory or enter it into our bugzilla as an enhancement request? If you do the latter, take me as pth@novell.com into CC as I'd be interested in the outcome.

...

Just a thought (BTW a similar approach may be appropriate for PEAR)...

Again, request it in bugzilla and/or discuss this on opensuse-factory.

...

In addition to what has been suggested. What would also be handy is some method of generating RPMs for some of the more useful eclipse plugins (EPIC for Perl, the PHP support and QT for Java and C/C++ ).

Oh no, I won't touch that can of worms, specially as I have no interest in eclipse. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

G T Smith

12 Jun 12 Jun

08:39

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Packaging tutorial

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 09:32:29 +0100, G T Smith wrote:

...
Both the cpan script and the modules change quite frequently and to generate static RPMs may not be the best way forward and does sail rather close to reinventing the wheel.

What if non perl packages need perl modules? On an RPM system you need to use rpm to record dependencies.

I agree that this something that needs to be considered. As you are probably aware CPAN have their own dependency mechanism which can identify which other Perl modules need to be downloaded and installed so a particular module can function correctly. However, a key difference from the RPM mechanism is that the CPAN script/Module downloads the latest version from CPAN site(s) directly and installs from that download. (Non CPAN modules usually require other measures). The Module usually will only be installed by the CPAN script if the Module and its dependencies successfully compile (if required) and (adequately) complete the test process. As I also understand it, the test component is also in part a feedback mechanism for users to report on any problems that occur when installing a module to the module authors and can be configured to automate sending the results to the authors. (I am not sure how useful it is for this is to be buried in a RPM). There is a further complication when Perl Modules have a dependency on a compiled or inLine Perl module. If the relevant development library support is not in place things can fragment somewhat when it attempts to compile for installing. Which is one area a method of integrating CPAN and RPM dependency capabilities might be very useful. It then gets a little more involved than just extracting the tar file and run the Perlish build commands, as in the example given on the build link quoted earlier.

...

...
What might be more appropriate would be to create a YaST front end to the CPAN local database and cpan script.

That might be so. Why don't you bring up the subject on opensuse-factory or enter it into our bugzilla as an enhancement request? If you do the latter, take me as pth@novell.com into CC as I'd be interested in the outcome.

OK, I will firm up my thinking on this a little before doing this, at the moment it is nothing more than a speculative idea (there is usually a good reason that someone has not done something which seems as obvious as this I think better try and find out what it is first :-) )...

...

...
Just a thought (BTW a similar approach may be appropriate for PEAR)...

Again, request it in bugzilla and/or discuss this on opensuse-factory.

At the moment I do not do much with PHP so it is whether anyone who is a currently an active PHP user/developer and a bit more knowledgeable in this area than I am would think it useful for such a thing to be available...

...

...
In addition to what has been suggested. What would also be handy is some method of generating RPMs for some of the more useful eclipse plugins (EPIC for Perl, the PHP support and QT for Java and C/C++ ).

Oh no, I won't touch that can of worms, specially as I have no interest in eclipse.

*sigh* well it was worth a shot :-)

...

Philipp

- -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIUODfasN0sSnLmgIRAnbuAKDbiZ5n1OJ1YpQ9NkTKizs9yab7YQCeNdkK rYFjrKcvJznEgSAIMIIkp0o= =nwb+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John E. Perry

9 Jun 9 Jun

16:39

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse

Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 16:33:43 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

...
I should have said IRC is a waste of Philipp's time, unless he plans to do it 24/7 for years to come.

Ah, so tutorials/workshops are 24/7 for years to come?

Uh, the point, Philipp, was that people all over the world need this, and those of us who miss it will still need it, and those of us who don't yet use suse will need it, and...

...

...
Let others add to it, and pretty soon you have a complete How-To. Thats what wikis are for, No?

But not for something resembling an online workshop and that's what I have in mind.

But Philipp, you started out saying this was all trivial, or at least easy. Now you're saying you have to hold our hands through the process?

...

Be it as it may, I'd like people to propose packages that they would like to be packaged so that I have a list to choose from.

Ok. Personally, I've never had to compile anything (that's one of the reasons I use suse -- almost everything imaginable is available already). Now, I'd like to use the Cisco vpn client to work from home on my employer's systems. Cisco has a linux version, which I have to compile. The version I have is apparently adapted for my employer's environment, and it has to be compiled for my machine, or at least for my distribution. The package here is larc-vpn-linux-4.8.01.0640-k9, and I don't know whether I can even give it to you (I'd have to ask), but since Cisco distributes it to their customers, maybe they will give you a general copy. This may be more specialized than what you are thinking of, but it's the only thing I've ever considered trying to compile. And, of course, it's a perfect illustration of the usefulness of checkinstall. Without checkinstall, I'd have to try to keep track of whether and what to uninstall every time Cisco updates the package. And, even with checkinstall available, I've dithered for a couple of weeks, now, trying to work up the courage to do this :-). John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kai Ponte

19:13

New subject: Cisco VPN Client (WAS: Re: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse )

On Monday 09 June 2008 09:39:22 am John E. Perry wrote:

...

Ok. Personally, I've never had to compile anything (that's one of the reasons I use suse -- almost everything imaginable is available already). Now, I'd like to use the Cisco vpn client to work from home on my employer's systems. Cisco has a linux version, which I have to compile.

Unfortunately, making an RPM for that is useless. For some stupid reason, the VPN client is tied into the kernel version. So, every time the kernel is updated the VPN client is borked and you have to reinstall. Here are some instructions I wrote on using the VPN client in *nix. http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/95 However, I often just use the XP VPN client under VMWare or Virtual Box. That way, I don't mess up my internet connection on the main machine and am only on the corporate network under the guest OS. Here's me using the Windows XP VPN client in VMWare to connect to my Vista machine and remoting into another openSUSE machine at work.... http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/2008/vmware_xp_remote_suse_1680x1050.jpg

...

The version I have is apparently adapted for my employer's environment, and it has to be compiled for my machine, or at least for my distribution. The package here is larc-vpn-linux-4.8.01.0640-k9, and I don't know whether I can even give it to you (I'd have to ask), but since Cisco distributes it to their customers, maybe they will give you a general copy.

The version is probably not specific, but may have your employers PCF file.

...

This may be more specialized than what you are thinking of, but it's the only thing I've ever considered trying to compile. And, of course, it's a perfect illustration of the usefulness of checkinstall. Without checkinstall, I'd have to try to keep track of whether and what to uninstall every time Cisco updates the package.

And, even with checkinstall available, I've dithered for a couple of weeks, now, trying to work up the courage to do this :-).

Again, I'm doubtful that checkinstall would work, since you use the Cisco installer. -- kai www.filesite.org || www.4thedadz.com || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Druid

19:26

New subject: Cisco VPN Client (WAS: Re: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse )

On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Kai Ponte wrote:

...

On Monday 09 June 2008 09:39:22 am John E. Perry wrote:

...
Ok. Personally, I've never had to compile anything (that's one of the reasons I use suse -- almost everything imaginable is available already). Now, I'd like to use the Cisco vpn client to work from home on my employer's systems. Cisco has a linux version, which I have to compile.

Unfortunately, making an RPM for that is useless. For some stupid reason, the VPN client is tied into the kernel version. So, every time the kernel is updated the VPN client is borked and you have to reinstall.

Its possible to make kernel dependent with KMPs, the issue with cisco would be the proprietary nature. I would, suggest to try vpnc (http://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~massar/vpnc/), an open source replacement for cisco vpn client (included in opensuse). As a bonus it doesn't have kernel specific deps. It doesn't work in all cases (works in cisco 3000 concentratorsand some others, check compat list), but works often. Check if it works. In 10.3, there is an update in YOU to fix a little bug, so if you try and its supported, and still not working, run YOU. Cheers Marcio --- Druid -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Matthias Bach

19:31

New subject: Cisco VPN Client (WAS: Re: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse )

Hi! Am Montag 09 Juni 2008 schrieb Kai Ponte:

...

On Monday 09 June 2008 09:39:22 am John E. Perry wrote:

...
Ok. Personally, I've never had to compile anything (that's one of the reasons I use suse -- almost everything imaginable is available already). Now, I'd like to use the Cisco vpn client to work from home on my employer's systems. Cisco has a linux version, which I have to compile.

Unfortunately, making an RPM for that is useless. For some stupid reason, the VPN client is tied into the kernel version. So, every time the kernel is updated the VPN client is borked and you have to reinstall.

Wouldn't the buildservice solve that problem, as it should rebuild the RPM anytime the kernel gets an update? That way you should get the Cisco Client Update along with the kernel, just as it works with the NVidia Graphics driver AFAIK. I could however imagine that the Cisco License prevents such a republishing of the client. Regards, Matthias -- Matthias Bach www.marix.org „Der einzige Weg, die Grenzen des Möglichen zu finden, ist ein klein wenig über diese hinaus in das Unmögliche vorzustoßen.“ - Arthur C. Clarke

Matthias Bach

20:40

New subject: Cisco VPN Client (WAS: Re: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse )

Hi! Am Montag 09 Juni 2008 schrieb Kai Ponte:

...

On Monday 09 June 2008 09:39:22 am John E. Perry wrote:

...
Ok. Personally, I've never had to compile anything (that's one of the reasons I use suse -- almost everything imaginable is available already). Now, I'd like to use the Cisco vpn client to work from home on my employer's systems. Cisco has a linux version, which I have to compile.

Unfortunately, making an RPM for that is useless. For some stupid reason, the VPN client is tied into the kernel version. So, every time the kernel is updated the VPN client is borked and you have to reinstall.

BTW: Another option would be to use vpnc, which is nicely integrated into the Network Manager and also has the standalone GUI kvpnc. For me this works nicely to connect to the university Cisco VPN. Regards, Matthias -- Matthias Bach www.marix.org „Der einzige Weg, die Grenzen des Möglichen zu finden, ist ein klein wenig über diese hinaus in das Unmögliche vorzustoßen.“ - Arthur C. Clarke

Kai Ponte

20:50

New subject: Cisco VPN Client (WAS: Re: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse )

On Monday 09 June 2008 01:40:47 pm Matthias Bach wrote:

...

Hi!

Am Montag 09 Juni 2008 schrieb Kai Ponte:

...
On Monday 09 June 2008 09:39:22 am John E. Perry wrote:

...
Ok. Personally, I've never had to compile anything (that's one of the reasons I use suse -- almost everything imaginable is available already). Now, I'd like to use the Cisco vpn client to work from home on my employer's systems. Cisco has a linux version, which I have to compile.

Unfortunately, making an RPM for that is useless. For some stupid reason, the VPN client is tied into the kernel version. So, every time the kernel is updated the VPN client is borked and you have to reinstall.

BTW: Another option would be to use vpnc, which is nicely integrated into the Network Manager and also has the standalone GUI kvpnc. For me this works nicely to connect to the university Cisco VPN.

I wish I could use that - nice GUI. Unfortunately, I've yet to be able to connect either to my current or previous employers' networks using it. In both cases, the VPN uses a SecureID card that changes the password every 60 seconds and is tied into my login. For some reason, the vpnc and kvpnc clients won't connect using the pcf file and the SecureID token. I've tried. -- kai www.filesite.org || www.4thedadz.com || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sloan

20:54

New subject: Cisco VPN Client (WAS: Re: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse )

Matthias Bach wrote:

...

Hi!

Am Montag 09 Juni 2008 schrieb Kai Ponte:

...
On Monday 09 June 2008 09:39:22 am John E. Perry wrote:

...
Ok. Personally, I've never had to compile anything (that's one of the reasons I use suse -- almost everything imaginable is available already). Now, I'd like to use the Cisco vpn client to work from home on my employer's systems. Cisco has a linux version, which I have to compile.

Unfortunately, making an RPM for that is useless. For some stupid reason, the VPN client is tied into the kernel version. So, every time the kernel is updated the VPN client is borked and you have to reinstall.

BTW: Another option would be to use vpnc, which is nicely integrated into the Network Manager and also has the standalone GUI kvpnc. For me this works nicely to connect to the university Cisco VPN.

Nicely integrated though it may be, I've never had any success with kvpnc and a cisco vpn connection, and I've noticed similar reports from others on this list, but no fix. So, I have been using the cisco vpn client from the command line, and it works well. Invariably, if I get the urge to use kvpnc to connect to the cisco vpn, I attempt to initiate the vpn connection, then network manager dies, disappears from the panel, and can't be restarted. Networking is hosed from then on. end of story. Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kai Ponte

20:59

New subject: Cisco VPN Client (WAS: Re: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse )

On Monday 09 June 2008 01:54:22 pm Sloan wrote:

...

Nicely integrated though it may be, I've never had any success with kvpnc and a cisco vpn connection, and I've noticed similar reports from others on this list, but no fix. So, I have been using the cisco vpn client from the command line, and it works well.

Invariably, if I get the urge to use kvpnc to connect to the cisco vpn, I attempt to initiate the vpn connection, then network manager dies, disappears from the panel, and can't be restarted. Networking is hosed from then on. end of story.

Now, that blows. I just tried connecting using kvpnc again and had no luck. Fortunately, Network Manager did not get FUBAR. -- kai www.filesite.org || www.4thedadz.com || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sloan

21:00

New subject: Cisco VPN Client (WAS: Re: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse )

Kai Ponte wrote:

...

On Monday 09 June 2008 01:54:22 pm Sloan wrote:

...
Nicely integrated though it may be, I've never had any success with kvpnc and a cisco vpn connection, and I've noticed similar reports from others on this list, but no fix. So, I have been using the cisco vpn client from the command line, and it works well.

Invariably, if I get the urge to use kvpnc to connect to the cisco vpn, I attempt to initiate the vpn connection, then network manager dies, disappears from the panel, and can't be restarted. Networking is hosed from then on. end of story.

Now, that blows.

I just tried connecting using kvpnc again and had no luck.

Fortunately, Network Manager did not get FUBAR.

Well that's progress, so I suppose there is some encouragement to be had from that. Perhaps some day in the not too distant future, the developers could have a look at that, and maybe even get it all working. Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kai Ponte

10 Jun 10 Jun

04:21

New subject: Cisco VPN Client (WAS: Re: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse )

On Monday 09 June 2008 02:00:11 pm Sloan wrote:

...

...
I just tried connecting using kvpnc again and had no luck.

Fortunately, Network Manager did not get FUBAR.

Well that's progress, so I suppose there is some encouragement to be had from that. Perhaps some day in the not too distant future, the developers could have a look at that, and maybe even get it all working.

If they do or not - I've got the cisco vpn working... http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/2008/20080609_vpn_connect_lacrr.jpg ...now I need to stop working and getting back to compiling quake... -- kai www.filesite.org || www.4thedadz.com || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Joe Sloan

05:48

New subject: Cisco VPN Client (WAS: Re: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse )

Kai Ponte wrote:

...

On Monday 09 June 2008 02:00:11 pm Sloan wrote:

...
...
I just tried connecting using kvpnc again and had no luck.

Fortunately, Network Manager did not get FUBAR. Well that's progress, so I suppose there is some encouragement to be had from that. Perhaps some day in the not too distant future, the developers could have a look at that, and maybe even get it all working.

If they do or not - I've got the cisco vpn working...

http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/2008/20080609_vpn_connect_lacrr.jpg

Sure, the cisco command line vpn client works for me too, no problem - it's vpnc that crashes and burns.

...

...now I need to stop working and getting back to compiling quake...

Compile it? I'm still running the q3demo I downloaded in 1999! Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kai Ponte

20:23

New subject: Cisco VPN Client (WAS: Re: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse )

On Monday 09 June 2008 10:48:04 pm Joe Sloan wrote:

...

Kai Ponte wrote:

...
On Monday 09 June 2008 02:00:11 pm Sloan wrote:

...
...
I just tried connecting using kvpnc again and had no luck.

Fortunately, Network Manager did not get FUBAR.

Well that's progress, so I suppose there is some encouragement to be had from that. Perhaps some day in the not too distant future, the developers could have a look at that, and maybe even get it all working.

If they do or not - I've got the cisco vpn working...

http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/2008/20080609_vpn_connect_lacrr.jpg

Sure, the cisco command line vpn client works for me too, no problem - it's vpnc that crashes and burns.

Yeah, I just stick with cisco vpnclient and re-run the configuration tool after a kernel update. I use it pretty much every night to connect to work and clean out my inbox. (I follow the David Allen (http://www.davidco.com/index.php) approach of having an empty inbox at the end of each day, in spite of getting 350+ emails daily.

...

...
...now I need to stop working and getting back to compiling quake...

Compile it? I'm still running the q3demo I downloaded in 1999!

Actually, it was one of the quake engines - fitzquake. I want to play one of the v1 or v2 games but can't seem to find what works. Apparently I need one of the CD's or something like that. http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/2008/20080607_pacman.jpg I still have the important games, though. :P -- kai www.filesite.org || www.4thedadz.com || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John E. Perry

16 Jun 16 Jun

16:45

New subject: Cisco VPN Client (WAS: Re: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse )

Kai Ponte wrote:

...

On Monday 09 June 2008 09:39:22 am John E. Perry wrote:

...
Ok. Personally, I've never had to compile anything (that's one of the reasons I use suse -- almost everything imaginable is available already). Now, I'd like to use the Cisco vpn client to work from home on my employer's systems. Cisco has a linux version, which I have to compile.

Unfortunately, making an RPM for that is useless. For some stupid reason, the VPN client is tied into the kernel version. So, every time the kernel is updated the VPN client is borked and you have to reinstall.

Here are some instructions I wrote on using the VPN client in *nix.

http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/95

Well, your compile went smoothly. I got the error "missing autoconf", with suggestions on how to generate the autoconf information. This seemed to work, but when I compiled again, I got a new set of errors, which I'm now trying to understand. ...Well, actually, I'll have to compile again, since I got interrupted and the messages disappeared from the terminal window before I got back to the machine. I've developed sofware under other unixes for many years, but never as a systems programmer. Doing system-level software is a different world! And I suppose linux is even more different?

...

...
The version I have is apparently adapted for my employer's environment, ...

The version is probably not specific, but may have your employers PCF file.

Yes, that looks right -- the source in the directory doesn't mention larc at all, but there are several .pcf's. There were also some executable binaries (cisco_cert_mgr, cvpnd, ipseclog, and vpnclient). I tried just jumping into vpnclient :-), but got no reaction. It just returned immediately to the command line. No messages of any sort. So I went into the compile process.

...

Again, I'm doubtful that checkinstall would work, since you use the Cisco installer.

I had gained that impression from subsequent messages in the thread. Thanks to all. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kai Ponte

18:45

New subject: Cisco VPN Client (WAS: Re: [opensuse] Re: Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse )

On Monday 16 June 2008 09:45:02 am John E. Perry wrote:

...

...
The version is probably not specific, but may have your employers PCF file.

Yes, that looks right -- the source in the directory doesn't mention larc at all, but there are several .pcf's.

The .pcf file will come from your employer. It has your connection-specific information. Mine looks like this: [main] !Description=vpn-b.lacounty.gov !Host=127.0.0.1 AuthType=1 !GroupName=acevpn GroupPwd= !enc_GroupPwd=E52B90CE96C8BF7F9157D6227C28DA113252E3D00E75ACD0B EnableISPConnect=0 ISPConnectType=1 ISPConnect= ISPCommand= Username=e5421 SaveUserPassword=0 UserPassword= enc_UserPassword= NTDomain= !EnableBackup=1 !BackupServer=127.0.0.1 EnableMSLogon=1 MSLogonType=0 !EnableNat=1 !TunnelingMode=0 !TcpTunnelingPort=10000

...

There were also some executable binaries (cisco_cert_mgr, cvpnd, ipseclog, and vpnclient). I tried just jumping into vpnclient :-), but got no reaction. It just returned immediately to the command line. No messages of any sort. So I went into the compile process.

the command for launching is vpnclient connect your_pcf_file

...

xwing:/home/kai # vpnclient connect lacrr

You then get...

...

Cisco Systems VPN Client Version 4.8.00 (0490) Copyright (C) 1998-2005 Cisco Systems, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Client Type(s): Linux Running on: Linux 2.6.22.17-0.1-default #1 SMP 2008/02/10 20:01:04 UTC i686 Config file directory: /etc/opt/cisco-vpnclient

...

Initializing the VPN connection. Contacting the gateway at your.ip.address.information User Authentication for lacrr...

...

The server has requested the following information to complete the user authentication:

...

Username [your_user_name]:

You then hit enter for your username and then type your password.

...

...
Again, I'm doubtful that checkinstall would work, since you use the Cisco installer.

I had gained that impression from subsequent messages in the thread. Thanks to all.

John Perry

-- kai www.filesite.org || www.4thedadz.com || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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participants (23)

Andrei Verovski (aka MacGuru)
Carlos E. R.
Carlos E. R.
Clayton
Constant Brouerius van Nidek
Damon Register
Damon Register
Druid
G T Smith
Hans Krueger
Hans Witvliet
James Knott
Joachim Schrod
Joe Sloan
John Andersen
John E. Perry
Kai Ponte
Matthias Bach
Philipp Thomas
Philipp Thomas
Rajko M.
Sloan
Wolfgang Woehl