Hello, On Sun, 17 Jul 2011, Arun Khan wrote:

Experience with Nvidia BLOB has also been good, except that in 11.4 I have not been able to get them to work (get blank screen).

Try the 270.41.06 from nVidia's website. That's a "known" good version. I don't know what's current in the nvidia Repo but there are some "bad" drivers out there that can fry some older cards (8xxx and 9xxx) reportedly. Ah, found it: avoid 270.61 and 275.33. HTH, -dnh -- Less is more or less more -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stan Goodman wrote: [snip]

But if you say that Intel support for their chip is "right around the corner", that opens up a more appealing possibility. Since you seem to know the neighborhood and its corners, and I don't, can you give us a clue of what "right around" means? And how confident your are about your estimate?

I have used both ATI and Nvidia, but not Intel so I am not quite as knowledgeable in the area as I probably "sound". I think Intel provided the guy at Phoronix with a laptop to help with testing out and assisting with fixes. For the last couple of months, or so, he has pretty well provided a fairly up-to-date running account of the status of Intel drivers. I've been interested in this and reading up on it because I am thinking about a new desktop box about the time Ivy Bridge comes out. An example: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel_windows_sna&num=1

The driver that the system has chosen as its best shot is not impossible to work with, for simple purposes anyway. I can view film clips on the websites I use for news, and the Web in general is not suffering. The difficulty so far is pop-up menus that have an artifact that makes them hard or impossible to read (thin white bars, horizontal and vertical) obscuring the text of the menu; that has got to go. But I can tolerate it for a time, if I have some notion of how much time is involved.

What I would do if it were me is essentially what Felix said in his [OT: Sandy Bridge] post. Getting ahold of all the freshest source code for everything needed and building it yourself is probably not a good idea for any one of several reasons. But going the route Felix suggested will get you newer Intel drivers than what you currently have, and which just might make enough difference for now. It's also the easiest thing you can do right away. Whether it will be a magic silver bullet, or not, I can't really say. If it improves your situation that's great, if not time for plan "B". :-) -Mike [snip] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 07/17/2011 09:24 PM, Michael Powell wrote:

Stan Goodman wrote:

...

But if you say that Intel support for their chip is "right around the corner", that opens up a more appealing possibility. Since you seem to know the neighborhood and its corners, and I don't, can you give us a clue of what "right around" means? And how confident your are about your estimate? Not confident at all, as it would really only be crystal-ball gazing, at best. My gut feeling is maybe to look again in something like a 3 month time

[snip] frame. Just because engineers are rapidly trying to get something together in the sources, it will still take time for distros to package and begin distributing to users. And even this is just a huge wild guess 'feeling' on my part, certainly nothing to take to the bank.

[snip] Thanks. I'm glad I asked what "right around the corner" meant. -Mike

-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

2011/7/18 Karl-Heinz tm : [snip]

In my view, the way to go to get Sandybridge graphics support in OS11.4 is what Felix described in an earlier post.  Concerning Tumbleweed, I'm running another box on it (because I needed a feature from Kernel 2.6.39), and there is absolutely no problem.  Unfortunately there's no Sandybridge on that box so I can't verify if Tumbleweed or the other method described by Felix will make it work.

I have a Sandybridge i7 with Intel HD3200 graphics which I am running on Tumbleweed, and it is working perfectly (including all the default KDE desktop effects. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 16:18, Sebastian Siebert wrote:

I have experienced the same story with NVIDIA in the past (ago 3-4 years). This was the reason that I switched to AMD graphics card. I have not regretted it.

I have a ATI Radeon 3870 in my computer. It works with the radeon driver (depended of used kernel version, but sometimes not really good) or the proprietary ATI Catalyst Display Driver from AMD (That is currently a better choice).

There is also one other reason to buy an AMD graphics card. ;-) I am the openSUSE Packaging Script Maintainer for ATI Catalyst and a intensive beta tester of ATI Catalyst Driver for next versions since November 2010 and have a direct contact with AMD. I like to mediate between openSUSE user and AMD, if any problems arise with the driver. I help the user in setting up the graphics card, but often is not necessary. It is easy to install on openSUSE.

http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:ATI_drivers

Everyone gets the graphics card, which he deserves. ;-)

One thing to keep in mind... if you're a gamer and/or like to play games in Wine, ATI is nothing but a headache and then some. The vast majority of games that work perfect in Wine using nVidia cards fail in odd ways on ATI cards. Of course, if you're not a gamer, it's not so much of an issue. I've had nothing but trouble with ATI, but that's been with the older card models. If you want an idea of the scope of the problems with ATI cards, look back in the list history here with the detailed emails (from David Rankin) of the significant issues encountered with ATI dropping binary driver support for cards, and the problems getting cards working... the discussions were late 2009, and early 2010. Yah, I know, a long time ago, and drivers change, but it's well worth the dig through the archive to get an idea of the pain people have had with ATI. I've got a couple computers with ATI video (can't remember the model numbers.. it's been a while since I used them), and ATI dropped binary driver support for the cards... last openSUSE release that worked on install with the video card was 11.0, and 11.1 with workarounds provided by David Rankin. The cards do work with the FLOSS drivers, but I can't get any performance out of them... that means video playback is next to useless... HDMI doesn't work... Flash is nothing sort of terrible... as a result the computers are stuck either running Windows where the native Windows drivers work fine, or stuck in storage... they are both in storage... replaced by a machine with Intel video. I actually get significantly better performance out of the Intel 3150 video card than I did with the ATI card. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 07/17/2011 05:18 PM, Sebastian Siebert wrote:

On 17.07.2011 15:05, Stan Goodman wrote:

...

Since there is no available driver for the Intel HD Integrated Graphics card on the Intel MB I bought last week, I've inquired about supported PCI Express cards that I could install instead. My usual merchant carries cards of Ndivia and ATI, and has in stock ATI HD3650.

A web search assures me that this card belongs to the Redeon series; <man ati> says that Radeon is supported, so I assume that this one is.

He also has similar Nvidia cards. I am shying away from Nvidia because I have seen over the years so many discussions about difficulties, perhaps quirks in the available drivers, that make them seem like avoidable trouble. And yet I know that many buy and use them, so I am perhaps exaggerating the risk. I'd be happy to read any comment anyone has to offer about this.

Hi Stan,

I have experienced the same story with NVIDIA in the past (ago 3-4 years). This was the reason that I switched to AMD graphics card. I have not regretted it.

I have a ATI Radeon 3870 in my computer. It works with the radeon driver (depended of used kernel version, but sometimes not really good) or the proprietary ATI Catalyst Display Driver from AMD (That is currently a better choice).

There is also one other reason to buy an AMD graphics card. ;-) I am the openSUSE Packaging Script Maintainer for ATI Catalyst and a intensive beta tester of ATI Catalyst Driver for next versions since November 2010 and have a direct contact with AMD. I like to mediate between openSUSE user and AMD, if any problems arise with the driver. I help the user in setting up the graphics card, but often is not necessary. It is easy to install on openSUSE.

http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:ATI_drivers

Everyone gets the graphics card, which he deserves. ;-)

That last line is scary! -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 07/17/2011 07:16 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2011/07/17 09:05 (GMT-0400) Stan Goodman composed:

...

Since there is no available driver for the Intel HD Integrated Graphics card on the Intel MB I bought last week, I've inquired about supported PCI Express cards that I could install instead. My usual merchant carries cards of Ndivia and ATI, and has in stock ATI HD3650.

...

A web search assures me that this card belongs to the Redeon series; <man ati> says that Radeon is supported, so I assume that this one is.

...

He also has similar Nvidia cards. I am shying away from Nvidia because I have seen over the years so many discussions about difficulties, perhaps quirks in the available drivers, that make them seem like avoidable trouble. And yet I know that many buy and use them, so I am perhaps exaggerating the risk. I'd be happy to read any comment anyone has to offer about this.

http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2011-07/msg00172.html is the last thread on this subject in this forum, less than two weeks ago. I'll view it. If you find spending money because your Intel hardware is too new for full support annoying: neither, at least until you've tried Tumbleweed, and failing that as a solution, thought about accepting 1024x768 for a few weeks or months until full Sandy Bridge support shows up in 11.4+Tumbleweed. I investigated Tumbleweed when you mentioned it a few days ago. I didn't find that there was a ready solution for the problem, and the introductory page was careful to emphasize the as-is nature of the goal of Tumbleweed. As I wrote to Mike in this thread, I am all for waiting for a proper driver for the graphics card I have, not least, but not only, because it will be free (as in free beer). That's why I asked him about his estimate of a time frame. Weeks is trivial; months is bearable; more than that is unnecessary.

If games and/or maximum 3D performance matter to you: NV I don't play games.

I stay away from games and infrequently fuss over lack of performance, so stick mostly to Intel, ATI, & even MGA, and always to FOSS drivers. I get frustrated attempting to use NV, as evidenced just last night: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=706305

I mentioned in my query that this was my impression from years of seeing discussions on forums, and not only on Linux forums.

More NV frustration sitting in my SUSE mailboxes: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=706024#c3 http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2011-07/msg00259.html http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-xorg/2011-07/msg00000.html http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2010-10/msg00241.html http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2011-03/msg00705.html https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=675793#c8 Multiple private threads between myself and Bob S, who frequently comes here for openSUSE on NV help.

I begin to comprehend your point. Thanks, to you and the others... -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 17 July 2011, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2011/07/17 16:05 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...

Since there is no available driver for the Intel HD Integrated Graphics card on the Intel MB I bought last week...

I wouldn't give up on Sandy Bridge yet. IIRC, another frequent participant here, Randall R Schulz, came here for Sandy Bridge help with 11.4 not too long ago, and I'll bet he got if working. Maybe a list mail archive search will produce hits you can use to that end.

...

I recently built and am now using a Sandy Bridge system based on an ASUS P8P67-family mainboard. I chose an nVidia graphics card. Note that this particular ASUS board does not include the Intel graphics hardware, so a discrete graphics card is required. While I'm not a graphics-intensive users (no gaming, e.g.) I do make some use of the KDE 4 desktop effects and some 3D applications like Stellarium, Celestia. Google Earth and Second Life. I have had no trouble installing and using the binary nVidia driver. On the other hand, this board seems prone to generating spurious interrupts, which leads the kernel to disable a particular IRQ. I don't think it has anything to do with the nVidia board, though sometimes it is that IRQ that acts up. BIOS updates released since the board was manufactured seem to have reduced the problem considerably, though not entirely eliminated it. Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 07/17/2011 07:54 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2011/07/17 16:05 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...

Since there is no available driver for the Intel HD Integrated Graphics card on the Intel MB I bought last week...

I wouldn't give up on Sandy Bridge yet. IIRC, another frequent participant here, Randall R Schulz, came here for Sandy Bridge help with 11.4 not too long ago, and I'll bet he got if working. Maybe a list mail archive search will produce hits you can use to that end.

Saving http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/XOrg/openSUSE_11.4/X11:XOrg.r... to /etc/zypp/repos.d/ will provide zypper and YaST access to install newer Xorg, including the latest Intel driver. I have guess that's all you really need, but maybe for it to work you'd need a newer kernel as well.

I need to ask a question here, to ensure that I not screw the operation up. I have visited the above URL and see that it returns a few lines resembling the content of other files in the target directory. Trying to save it to that directory, however, gets this response: ***** /etc/zypp/repos.d/X11:XOrg.txt could not be saved, because you cannot change the contents of that folder. Change the folder properties and try again, or try saving in a different location. ***** It says "properties", not "permissions", which is what usually happens in similar cases. Does it want a (temporary) change permissions or ownership, or something else?

Saving either of: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Kernel:/stable/standard/Kernel:sta...

http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/openSUSE:/Tumbleweed/standard/open...

to /etc/zypp/repos.d/ will provide zypper and YaST access to install 2.6.39 kernels, which surely by now have full Sandy Bridge support. I suggest you test with Xorg first, and if that's not enough, go for the stable kernel, and then if it isn't enough, switch from stable to Tumbleweed, which will _convert_ your 11.4 to "Tumbleweed". If you go either kernel route, be sure to goto /etc/zypp/zypp.conf and remove "#" from the line including "multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)". That way your old kernel(s) will remain installed as fallback in case you have a problem with newer. Most of my 11.4 systems run a 2.6.39 kernel from one of these two "kernel" repos.

FWIW in case dead dinosaur consumption matters to you, separate graphic cards normally do consume more power than onboard chips. AIUI, one of the advantages of Sandy Bridge is having the GPU on the CPU die, saving even more power.

I think it it isn't the whole dinosaur that is the concern, only the schmaltz. But in general, I hold that any deceased creature, whether edible or no, deserves not to be immolated. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2011/07/18 23:29 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...

On 07/17/2011 07:54 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

...

...

Saving http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/XOrg/openSUSE_11.4/X11:XOrg.r...

to /etc/zypp/repos.d/ will provide zypper and YaST access to install newer Xorg, including the latest Intel driver. I have guess that's all you really need, but maybe for it to work you'd need a newer kernel as well.

...

I need to ask a question here, to ensure that I not screw the operation up. I have visited the above URL and see that it returns a few lines resembling the content of other files in the target directory. Trying to save it to that directory, however, gets this response:

...

***** /etc/zypp/repos.d/X11:XOrg.txt could not be saved, because you cannot change the contents of that folder.

...

Change the folder properties and try again, or try saving in a different location. *****

...

It says "properties", not "permissions", which is what usually happens in similar cases. Does it want a (temporary) change permissions or ownership, or something else?

If you look at the permissions on /etc/zypp/repos.d you'll see it isn't writable except by root. I don't know what "it" is making the claim, but permissions are directory properties. Pretty much anything you wish to change directly yourself, as opposed to using some tool like YaST2, in the /etc tree, needs to be done by root or sudo. So it means "permissions" and not something else. That's the answer to

On 07/19/2011 12:45 AM, Felix Miata wrote: the question. Thanks. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 19/07/11 00:12, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2011/07/19 01:45 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...

On 07/19/2011 12:45 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

...

...

On 2011/07/18 23:29 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...

...

...

It says "properties", not "permissions", which is what usually happens in similar cases. Does it want a (temporary) change permissions or ownership, or something else?

...

...

If you look at the permissions on /etc/zypp/repos.d you'll see it isn't writable except by root. I don't know what "it" is making the claim, but permissions are directory properties. Pretty much anything you wish to change directly yourself, as opposed to using some tool like YaST2, in the /etc tree, needs to be done by root or sudo.

...

So it means "permissions" and not something else. That's the answer to the question. Thanks.

Presumably, since you failed to define the "it" that used the word "properties". What had you tried to save it there with?

I would guess Firefox / a web browser, given it tried to change the extension :P Anyway, Stan, the quickest way to do it is to on the command line, as root (so first su/sudo) enter zypper ar --repo http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/XOrg/openSUSE_11.4/X11:XOrg.r... or even zypper ar --repo http://r.opensu.se/X11:XOrg.repo Regards, Tejas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2011/07/19 01:45 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...

On 07/19/2011 12:45 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

...

...

On 2011/07/18 23:29 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...

...

...

It says "properties", not "permissions", which is what usually happens in similar cases. Does it want a (temporary) change permissions or ownership, or something else?

...

...

If you look at the permissions on /etc/zypp/repos.d you'll see it isn't writable except by root. I don't know what "it" is making the claim, but permissions are directory properties. Pretty much anything you wish to change directly yourself, as opposed to using some tool like YaST2, in the /etc tree, needs to be done by root or sudo.

...

So it means "permissions" and not something else. That's the answer to the question. Thanks.

Presumably, since you failed to define the "it" that used the word "properties". What had you tried to save it there with? Sorry, I thought I was clear; apparently I was not. As I said, I had entered the URL with the browser (Firefox), and tried to <Save as> to

On 07/19/2011 02:12 AM, Felix Miata wrote: the target directory, and received the error message. I did see that the directory's privileges required root for writing, but wanted to be certain that this was the only reason for the refusal, because of what seemed an unclear wording of the error message, so I asked, in the interest of clarity -- "better to be safe than sorry". My solution last night (wee hours), which seemed simple enough, was to save the file instead to the Desktop, and then, as root, to move it in a terminal to the target directory. As I understand from a previous message from you, the presence of this new file makes it possible for YaST to see newer versions of Xorg; searching in YaST for "graphics", or "xorg", or "intel", I do not notice anything that looks like a newer Xorg, so it's possible I have omitted a step. I won't progress to the matter of the kernel until I'm sure that the Xorg matter is resolved. Meanwhile, I've got the page http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Configuring_graphics_cards#Symptom on the browser, and will read it now. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 07/19/2011 01:58 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2011/07/19 13:22 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...

Sorry, I thought I was clear; apparently I was not. As I said, I had entered the URL with the browser (Firefox), and tried to<Save as> to the target directory, and received the error message.

Absent running FF as root, that would be expected behavior.

...

I did see that the directory's privileges required root for writing, but wanted to be certain that this was the only reason for the refusal, because of what seemed an unclear wording of the error message, so I asked, in the interest of clarity -- "better to be safe than sorry". My solution last

Without knowing you were trying to save with FF, it wasn't possible to be certain why you got the message you got. What I wrote was:

I need to ask a question here, to ensure that I not screw the operation up. I have visited the above URL and see that it returns a few lines resembling the content of other files in the target directory. Trying to save it to that directory, however, gets this response: ***** "Visited the URL" implied to me "browser". "Save", in the context of "browser", seemed clear to me to mean "saving from the browser". I can see that I might have written more explicitly.

...

night (wee hours), which seemed simple enough, was to save the file instead to the Desktop, and then, as root, to move it in a terminal to the target directory.

Saving somewhere other than the ultimate destination, then moving or copying it is usually prudent. That procedure provides some insurance against against overwriting a file for which you have no ready or any backup, and might dearly wish you had.

That is why I do not generally move files, but first copy the original, then delete the original instead.

...

As I understand from a previous message from you, the presence of this new file makes it possible for YaST to see newer versions of Xorg; searching in YaST for "graphics", or "xorg", or "intel", I do not notice

Without adding that repo, YaST Software immediately after an installation was completed but before any updates were applied would show: xorg-x11-driver-video-7.6-52.4.x86_64.rpm currently installed, which from http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.4/repo/oss/suse/x86_64/ you can see was built in February. It would also show xorg-x11-driver-video-7.6-53.56.1.x86_64.rpm as the newer available version you probably have now which http://download.opensuse.org/update/11.4/rpm/x86_64/ shows was built in April. Compare those to the obviously very much newer xorg-x11-driver-video-7.6-229.1.x86_64.rpm from http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/XOrg/openSUSE_11.4/x86_64/ that you'd get now by adding the new repo and updating, and you should see a pretty substantial likelihood that time's been ample to incorporate Sandy Bridge support, even if it hadn't been mentioned elsewhere in the thread that that is indeed the case.

The current driver is now 7.6-53.58.1. I'll update to it now (although I'm not sure this is a necessary step), then add the new repo, and post what happened.

...

anything that looks like a newer Xorg, so it's possible I have omitted a step. I won't progress to the matter of the kernel until I'm sure that the Xorg matter is resolved.

No thread participant has proffered any reason not to use a newer kernel whether or not the newer drivers solve your problem independently.

...

Meanwhile, I've got the page http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Configuring_graphics_cards#Symptom on the browser, and will read it now.

-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

* Stan Goodman [07-19-11 08:31]:

The attempt to add the repo to the list brought the following: "Unable to create repository from URL http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/XOrg/openSUSE_11.4/x86_64".

from the control-line as root, issue (all one line): zypper ar -r http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/XOrg/openSUSE_11.4/X11:XOrg.r... -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 07/19/2011 04:08 PM, Karl-Heinz tm wrote:

...

Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 08:37:54 -0400 From: paka@opensuse.org To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] Nvidia vs ATI [OT: Sandy Bridge]

* Stan Goodman [07-19-11 08:31]:

...

The attempt to add the repo to the list brought the following: "Unable to create repository from URL http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/XOrg/openSUSE_11.4/x86_64". you need to create the repository from http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/XOrg/openSUSE_11.4/

as opposed to http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/XOrg/openSUSE_11.4/x86_64

/K.-H.

Aha! Thanks.

...

from the control-line as root, issue (all one line):

zypper ar -r http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/XOrg/openSUSE_11.4/X11:XOrg.r...

-- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stan Goodman said the following on 07/19/2011 09:09 AM:

On 07/19/2011 03:37 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Stan Goodman [07-19-11 08:31]:

...

The attempt to add the repo to the list brought the following: "Unable to create repository from URL http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/XOrg/openSUSE_11.4/x86_64". from the control-line as root, issue (all one line):

zypper ar -r http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/XOrg/openSUSE_11.4/X11:XOrg.r...

Thank you, Patrick. That installed the repo. I am not clear on why YaST was unable to do the same thing.

Dunno, but when I added that I now get # yast2 sw_single YaST got signal 11 at YCP file PackagesUI.ycp:273 /sbin/yast2: line 423: 6541 Segmentation fault $ybindir/y2base $module "$@" "$SELECTED_GUI" $Y2_GEOMETRY $Y2UI_ARGS ARGH! So I manually deleted it from /etc/zypp/repos/ and I still have that problem. ARGH! -- "Is Penetration Testing Worth it? There are two reasons why you might want to conduct a penetration test. One, you want to know whether a certain vulnerability is present because you're going to fix it if it is. And two, you need a big, scary report to persuade your boss to spend more money. If neither is true, I'm going to save you a lot of money by giving you this free penetration test: You're vulnerable. Now, go do something useful about it." -- Bruce Schneier http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/05/is_penetration.html -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 07/19/2011 02:59 PM, Stan Goodman wrote:

On 07/19/2011 01:58 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

...

On 2011/07/19 13:22 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...

Sorry, I thought I was clear; apparently I was not. As I said, I had entered the URL with the browser (Firefox), and tried to<Save as> to the target directory, and received the error message.

Absent running FF as root, that would be expected behavior.

...

I did see that the directory's privileges required root for writing, but wanted to be certain that this was the only reason for the refusal, because of what seemed an unclear wording of the error message, so I asked, in the interest of clarity -- "better to be safe than sorry". My solution last

Without knowing you were trying to save with FF, it wasn't possible to be certain why you got the message you got. What I wrote was:

---

I need to ask a question here, to ensure that I not screw the operation up. I have visited the above URL and see that it returns a few lines resembling the content of other files in the target directory. Trying to save it to that directory, however, gets this response: ***** "Visited the URL" implied to me "browser". "Save", in the context of "browser", seemed clear to me to mean "saving from the browser". I can see that I might have written more explicitly.

...

...

night (wee hours), which seemed simple enough, was to save the file instead to the Desktop, and then, as root, to move it in a terminal to the target directory.

Saving somewhere other than the ultimate destination, then moving or copying it is usually prudent. That procedure provides some insurance against against overwriting a file for which you have no ready or any backup, and might dearly wish you had.

That is why I do not generally move files, but first copy the original, then delete the original instead.

...

...

As I understand from a previous message from you, the presence of this new file makes it possible for YaST to see newer versions of Xorg; searching in YaST for "graphics", or "xorg", or "intel", I do not notice

Without adding that repo, YaST Software immediately after an installation was completed but before any updates were applied would show: xorg-x11-driver-video-7.6-52.4.x86_64.rpm currently installed, which from http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.4/repo/oss/suse/x86_64/ you can see was built in February. It would also show xorg-x11-driver-video-7.6-53.56.1.x86_64.rpm as the newer available version you probably have now which http://download.opensuse.org/update/11.4/rpm/x86_64/ shows was built in April. Compare those to the obviously very much newer xorg-x11-driver-video-7.6-229.1.x86_64.rpm from http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/XOrg/openSUSE_11.4/x86_64/ that you'd get now by adding the new repo and updating, and you should see a pretty substantial likelihood that time's been ample to incorporate Sandy Bridge support, even if it hadn't been mentioned elsewhere in the thread that that is indeed the case.

The current driver is now 7.6-53.58.1. I'll update to it now (although I'm not sure this is a necessary step), then add the new repo, and post what happened.

The new repo is installed. YaST shows these two new packages: xorg-x11-driver-video-debuginfo v7.6.29.1 (also for 32bit) xorg-x11-driver-video-debugsource v7.6.29.1 I assume I am to compile the source file, probably using the info file. Where will I find information on how to do this? [If someone would like to enlighten me about why YaST refused to update the existing driver with the update it suggested (just as it refused recently to update FF, although there too it had suggested an update), I would be much indebted.] -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

----------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:17:04 +0300 From: stan.goodman@hashkedim.com To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] Nvidia vs ATI [OT: Sandy Bridge]

/snip

...

I've found this page on a blog site: http://lslezak.blogspot.com/2011/04/installing-latest-intel-graphics-driver..... It is a discussion of installation of the graphics on the i5 CPU, so the same hardware I have here. His procedure seems, just at first blush, to be different from that in this thread.

I have to read it more thoroughly.

/snip What Ladislav is describing on his blog is the hard way. The first comment on the blog suggests that there is also an easy way ("I think that you can just enable the following repo:  http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/XOrg/openSUSE_11.4/ that includes the latest intel driver. After that just "Switch Packages" from yast to this repo").  This easy way is exactly what I and others on this thread have suggested you to try. On the blog that you quote, it seems some people were successful using the easy way while others were not. Strangely, according to Intel's Linux driver page, Sandybridge graphics support is already in the Q4/10 driver release, and all the components of this driver release are in OS11.4 - which would explain that someone on this thread had it work out of the box for him.  However, I myself had the same problem with stock OS11.4 as Ladislav explains on his blog.  This should be fixed by updating to the Intel Q1/11 release, either the hard way or easy way as explained above. There is also a mention on Intel's driver page about mode setting issues in driver release Q4/10 (equivalent with stock OS11.4), so that may in fact be the problem you got. I do not understand completely the background of this problem presented on the Intel page, but it is stated that upgrading the kernel solves it. So here's what I would do: 1) do the X11 upgrade from the above repo; 2) upgrade the kernel e.g. from Tumbleweed; I don't think that upgrading the hard way will help on top of these steps as it doesn't give you anything different than the easy way, except all the headaches of circumventing your distribution's SW management system, but you could still try that if it is still not working after step 1 and 2 above. /K.-H.

-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

* Stan Goodman [07-19-11 12:52]:

On 07/19/2011 06:37 PM, Karl-Heinz tm wrote:

...

1) do the X11 upgrade from the above repo; That is where I am stuck at the moment. I have installed the new XOrg repo, which has presented me with only source/debug package which I assume I must compile. If so, how do I compile it?

It is an opensuse repo which provides rpm files. You install them, not compile them.

...

2) upgrade the kernel e.g. from Tumbleweed; I.e. visit one of the two URLs that Felix lists, and store its content in /etc/zypp/repo.d? Then, by analogy with what I did for the XOrg repo, install a new repo in YaST -- what URL?

look for "tumbleweed" .... PLEASE, consider trimming your replies. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2011/07/19 21:46 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

Sorry, this does not help me interpret what I see. After adding the new XOrg repo and searching YaST again for changes, I see only the three lines I have reported: xorg-x11-driver-video-debuginfo v7.6.29.1 (also for 32bit) xorg-x11-driver-video-debugsource v7.6.29.1

Debuginfo and debugsource rpms have nothing to do with what you need. That there is no plain xorg-x11-driver-video (which is what you need) shown suggests YaST thinks you have the latest driver version already installed, but 7.6.29.1 ain't it. Or maybe you need to restart X and/or YaST and really get the repos refreshed, with 7.6-229.1 the goal.

What I do understand is that we are trying to get a new driver and a now a new kernel from Tumbleweed. Is the URL for the kernel the same as that for the XOrg case?

7.6-229.1 doesn't come from Tumbleweed. AFAICT, Tumbleweed offers no Intel driver newer than 11.4's updates. Tumbleweed's 2.6.39 kernel comes from the Tumbleweed subsection of OBS (openSUSE repositories aka build service), while the driver comes from the X11 section of OBS. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 07/19/2011 10:04 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2011/07/19 19:49 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...

I.e. visit one of the two URLs that Felix lists, and store its content in /etc/zypp/repo.d? Then, by analogy with what I did for the XOrg repo, install a new repo in YaST -- what URL?

Someone should have suggested trying 1-click from http://software.opensuse.org/search?q=xorg-x11-driver-video&baseproject=openSUSE%3A11.4&lang=en&include_home=true&exclude_debug=true early in the thread. xorg-x11-driver-video-7.6-229.1.x86_64.rpm is listed there. 1-click gets you the requisite repo installed and enabled (if not already), then installs the package.

Duck soup! I know that the driver is installed because I can read the pop-up menus. That makes the system usable, which it was not before, and which was another source of frustration. But the best display resolution offered in System Settings is still 1028x768 as before, and I know the monitor can do better. System Settings shows "VGA1 Connected"; I don't see where to change to something better.

Tumbleweed's kernel-default-2.6.39.2-36.1.x86_64.rpm is at http://software.opensuse.org/search?q=kernel-default&baseproject=openSUSE%3A11.4&lang=en&include_home=true&exclude_debug=true too.

The difficulty you've run into has gotten way out of hand,

You've noticed this?

likely complicated by that X desktop updater thingie I never use, but also the too many cooks syndrome, coupled with worry of irreparable screwup syndrome.

YaST uses the same repos as zypper, but they can get out of sync when you're changing repos and repo configurations, something an X restart would fix. Both use the basic repo configuration files stored in /etc/zypp/repos.d/. That's why I gave you what _I_ consider the "easy" method, copying that .repo file from the URL I gave you to that directory. Once it exists there, the next refresh by zypper (or YaST) will enable either to find and install xorg-x11-driver-video-7.6-229.1.x86_64.rpm.

One could install that driver rpm "manually" ('zypper in' or 'rpm -Uvh'), without doing any repo futzing, after fetching it manually via ftp or web browser from either of

I saved it and ran "rpm".

http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/XOrg/openSUSE_11.4/x86_64/ or http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/X11:/XOrg/openSUSE_11.4/x86_64...

or (any other comparable mirror)

The fully manual method may initially fail due to a missing dep, but tell you so, allowing you to fetch any such deps manually in same manner and try again by including all on the cmdline.

If anything was missing, there was no notification to tell me so.

I use the gwdg repos, because I do it others' "hard way" via FTP with MC, and the openSUSE devs in their infinite wisdom have seen fit to make its own repos unavailable via FTP. To fetch the repo file, I would navigate to http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/X11:/XOrg/ in MC, where I would visibly see and put the highlight on X11:XOrg.repo, then tab to the opposite pane, where I would navigate to /etc/zypp/repos.d/. Then I would tab back to the gwdg pane, and press the F5 key and ENTER, thereby copying that file directly from gwdg to repos.d same as I would had I previously downloaded it to Desktop or elsewhere. At this point the latest stable X11 repo would be enabled, allowing zypper (or YaST) to install xorg-x11-driver-video-7.6-229.1.x86_64.rpm. I'd do 'zypper ref; zypper in -d xorg-x11-driver-video' to get it downloaded and verified to be the desired version, then 'zypper in xorg-x11-driver-video' to actually install it.

The process using MC would be the same for Tumbleweed and the 2.6.39 kernel it offers, starting with openSUSE:Tumbleweed.repo from http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/openSUSE:/Tumbleweed/standard/.

You could install the Tumbleweed kernel without enabling all of Tumbleweed a couple of different ways. One would be to enable the repo, then install only the kernel, then disable the repo and lock the kernel with 'zypper al kernel-<flavor>' (e.g. kernel-default if that's what you normally use). Alternatively you could just download its kernel from http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/openSUSE:/Tumbleweed/standard/... and use zypper or rpm to install it.

For purposes of this thread, you should assume anything I write, and most if not all of what I've already posted, presumes X is not running and you are logged in as root on a tty. You should pick only one fork, YaST or zypper, and stick to it until your thread subject problem is solved. If you're going to use the YaST fork, you should probably ignore me until you've solved this using someone else's recipe. In spite of all we've written, getting what you need installed should not and need not be as complicated as it apparently seems to you.

-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stan,

both Felix and I gave you solutions to your problem (though different methods to do it) but apparently what was help from our side didn't get you anywhere. Let's just back down a little bit so that we can get this solved. I am very grateful for your help, as well as for that of others. That Felix popped up with the one-click installation site was a gift from heaven, that not only solved the problem in less than a minute, but also illustrated how much the alternate/competitive paths had disguised

On 07/20/2011 12:42 AM, Karl-Heinz tm wrote: the fact that the process is so simple that it could be reduced to a simple action by a non-biological player. What remains is the matter of widening the array of available display modes. That's for tomorrow. Other than that, I am extremely happy with the new board. The audio system produces speech I can actually hear, which wasn't true with the former board (R.I.P.). Video clips from news sites play continuously, with no pauses to recharge the buffers. Thanks for this note. I'll read it tomorrow; it's nearlt 0300 now.

For updating the driver, it is necessary to add that X11 repo. For updating the kernel, there are several options; if you don't like Tumbleweed you can also use the dedicated kernel update repo from the opensuse build service (I am actually using both).

There is no need to get involved with source or debug packets, nor to compile anything. We just need to install the proper rpm packages, i.e. what the repositories provide for "normal usage".

There is also no need to haggle with config files on the console, YaST has a GUI for all of this.

Let's start with checking/adding needed repos. Open YaST, click "software repositories" (I'm translating from a german system so bear with me if you don't see *exactly* what I put here), then in the next window check if you have repos there with URL http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/XOrg/openSUSE_11.4 and http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Kernel:/stable/standard If they are there, close this window ("OK"). If not, click "add", make sure "specify URL" is checked in the next dialog, and then after clicking "continue" input a repo name of your choice and the URL of the missing repo in the next window. You might be asked about accepting a GPG key when adding a repo, make sure you do this (we normally trust the opensuse repos ;-))

Once the repos are added, open "install software" in the main YaST window. In the window that opens, click "show" button (upper left, below the "file" menu") and select "installation sources" (hope this translation from the German GUI fits). This will give you a list of configured repos, including the two new ones. Select the X11 repo and then, above the list of software packages, click on "switch system packages to this repo". Clicking "ok" (or "accept") will install the new X11 drivers and all dependencies. If you like or need to upgrade the kernel, do the same with the new kernel repo. You may need to open the "install software" again after upgrading the first repo as YaST standard behaviour is to close this window after an update run.

Once the packages are installed, restart your system and it should now give you proper graphics support.

Hope this helps, K.-H.

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

----------------------------------------

...

Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 02:47:04 +0300 From: stan.goodman@hashkedim.com To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] Nvidia vs ATI [OT: Sandy Bridge]

On 07/20/2011 12:42 AM, Karl-Heinz tm wrote:

...

Stan,

both Felix and I gave you solutions to your problem (though different methods to do it) but apparently what was help from our side didn't get you anywhere. Let's just back down a little bit so that we can get this solved.

We need to find out what driver your system is actually using, i.e. if it is correctly using the Intel driver. You need to be root for most of the following steps. Check if /etc/X11/xorg.conf exists on your system - it shouldn't but if it does: - rename it to something different and restart your system; see if there is a difference to before. You can also check in xorg.conf what driver is configured - look for a "Driver" section and replace the driver by intel if it says something different (e.g. vesa). If you do that, again restart and see if there is a difference. - ideally xorg.conf does not exist. Then check the video driver that your system is using by typing cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep intel (note it's a zero between Xorg and log, and a capital X). This command should produce lines that contain intel_drv.so if the Intel driver is running; if nothing is output, then try the above command by replacing the word intel by vesa, to see if the vesa driver is used instead.

Rights, let's go through these steps and see where they take us to.

/K.-H. If you already did the upgrades using the one-click installation then there is nothing of the actions I described that you still need to perform. You may double-check the versions by opening a console and typing (you may need to become root): Yes, as I've said, I did the one-click installatioin (the only one that hasbeen mentioned). That is why I am able to use the GUI desktop, since without the new driver, pop-up menus were illegible, and now I can read

On 07/20/2011 03:15 PM, Karl-Heinz tm wrote: them. I looked for a file /etc/X11/xorg.conf early this morning, but found only directory dated 15 July (the date on which I installed openSuSE), and file dated 20 July (the date and time at which I ran the one-click installation). The check for the current driver is intel; apparently i810. The long display also mentions Sandy Bridge. It gives a long list of possible resolutions, most of which are labeled as not used because out of range. The resolutions offered in Personal Settings are all at 60Hz, apparently too fast (?).

rpm -qa | grep video-7 (this should output "xorg-x11-driver-video-7.6.52.4.x86_64.rpm if it is still the stock OS11.4 version, or "xorg-x11-driver-video-7.6.229.1.x86_64.rpm" if it is the newer version from the X11 repo) It's the newer one. uname -r (this will output a kernel version number that includes 2.6.37 if it's still the stock OS11.4 kernel, or something including 2.6.39 after upgrading). I have not yet updated the kernel.

So, I think, it is necessary only to change the refresh rate. But Personal Settings > Display and Monitor offers onlly 60Hz (or Auto, which doesn't help). It is very hard to believe that this acclaimed (by the manufacturer) driver and hardware can support only one refresh rate (which doesn't seem demandingly fast), and that one is possible only for very modest resolutions (the greatest being 1024x768). There really has to be more to this -- or the question of a standalone graphics care arises again. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 07/20/2011 08:01 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2011/07/20 19:46 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...

So, I think, it is necessary only to change the refresh rate. But Personal Settings> Display and Monitor offers onlly 60Hz (or Auto, which doesn't help). It is very hard to believe that this acclaimed (by the manufacturer) driver and hardware can support only one refresh rate (which doesn't seem demandingly fast), and that one is possible only for

60 is standard for most LCDs. Anything other than 60 on a LCD is usually pointless, even if supported, possibly provided mainly for cards that don't support the native resolution at 60, but do at 72 or 75 or whatever.

...

very modest resolutions (the greatest being 1024x768). There really has to be more to this -- or the question of a standalone graphics care arises again.

What is your display type (CRT vs LCD/LED vs other)? What is the native resolution of your display? If you don't know the above, what make and model is it? What resolution were you using with the old motherboard (if you remember)? What resolution do you wish (if you know)? It's an LG Flatron LCD monitor, the model number of which slips my mind and is written on the back in letters too small to read, even when I put on my glasses.

With the previous board, i used the display with 1280x1024. My fallible memory of the refresh rate is 72, but it could well have been 60 or something else. I don't attach much importance to the refresh rate (all the usual rates are well above the flicker threshold), but I would like a higher resolution, as I had with the now defunct board. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2011/07/20 21:01 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...

It's an LG Flatron LCD monitor, the model number of which slips my mind and is written on the back in letters too small to read, even when I put on my glasses.

...

With the previous board, i used the display with 1280x1024. My fallible memory of the refresh rate is 72, but it could well have been 60 or something else. I don't attach much importance to the refresh rate (all the usual rates are well above the flicker threshold), but I would like a higher resolution, as I had with the now defunct board.

Some displays provide broken information to the driver via the EDID service. Try editing /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-monitor.conf so that it reads as follows, than restart X to see if that's all that's required:

Section "Monitor" Identifier "Default Monitor" Option "PreferredMode" "1280x1024" EndSection

If it doesn't work, provide us access to the resulting /var/log/Xorg.0.log so we can look for reasons why not. That was an adventure. After changing the file, I rebooted (CTRL-ALT-Backspace didn't restart X). The list of available monitor settings was much expanded, including one for 1280x1024x32 (labeled 31B), which I chose. This got me a warning that this is an invalid designation. That didn't surprise me, because the setting the system has been choosing for itself is given as 31A, which I was choosing

On 07/20/2011 09:13 PM, Felix Miata wrote: previously, only to be greeted by the same rejection, and the system chose it anyway. Letting the system choose its own settings again, it chose the easy way out by booting to level 3, even after I rebooted and specified "5" at the first graphic screen. In level 3, I went again to the file I had just edited, and removed the changes I had made. We are back again in level 5. I've extracted the Xorg.0.log file that you asked for, but I haven't yet installed an ftp client on this machine, so I can't upload it for your inspection, and it's two large (26kB) to send to the list. Unfortunately, the lines are not date/time-stamped, else I would know how to truncate it. If you can tell me how to define a short part that you want to see, I could send it now in a message. Else it will wait for tomorrow (?), when I may have FTP installed. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

I found a potential solution at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1321224 It is described in post #5 from rhythmiccycle. It did not work for me on my Sandybridge notebook which is not running opensuse, but it *did* work on my OS11.4 machine which features Intel X4500 chipset graphic that uses the same graphics driver as Sandybridge. The mode that I added on the X4500 machine was available for selecting via KDE System Settings' display/monitor adjustments. If this also works for you we will need to find a way to make this mode addition persistent across reboots. Given that X performs mode autodetection at each startup the new mode will not be available after a reboot. Configuring a proper xorg.conf that overrides autodetection may help but before digging into this first try the above if it works for you to set your desired resolution. /k.-h. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2011/07/20 22:54 (GMT+0200) karl-heinz_tm composed:

Stan Goodman composed:

...

That was an adventure. After changing the file, I rebooted (CTRL-ALT-Backspace didn't restart X).

In openSUSE one can restart X by a normal logout if logged in normally, but in any event in which keyboard works by switching to a tty, login root, and execute 'rcxdm restart' or 'rckdm restart' or 'init 3; init 5'.

this is normal behaviour in OS11.4 (changed from earlier versions) so

It happened before 11.4, maybe 11.2 or before, but certainly by 11.3.

people don't accidentally "zap" the X server. Pressing CTRL-ALT-Backspace twice will do the trick (unless there is another error)

Those who prefer the old behavior can add to 'Section "ServerFlags"' in xorg.conf, 'Option "ZapWarning" "off"', or create a new file in xorg.conf.d/ with any unique name ending in .conf, ift no file already there contains a 'Section "ServerFlags"' to add the above to, containing the following: Section "ServerFlags" Option "ZapWarning" "off" EndSection -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 07/21/2011 01:37 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2011/07/20 22:45 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...

Felix Miata wrote:

...

...

Some displays provide broken information to the driver via the EDID service. Try editing /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-monitor.conf so that it reads as follows, than restart X to see if that's all that's required:

...

...

Section "Monitor" Identifier "Default Monitor" Option "PreferredMode" "1280x1024" EndSection

...

...

If it doesn't work, provide us access to the resulting /var/log/Xorg.0.log so we can look for reasons why not.

...

That was an adventure. After changing the file, I rebooted (CTRL-ALT-Backspace didn't restart X). The list of available monitor settings was much expanded, including one for 1280x1024x32 (labeled 31B), which I chose. This got me a warning that this is an invalid designation. That didn't surprise me, because the setting the system has been choosing for itself is given as 31A, which I was choosing previously, only to be greeted by the same rejection, and the system chose it anyway.

31a and 31b are parameters for the vga= component of the Grub kernel line that traditionally only affects the ttys, and impact X not. Since KMS was implemented in Spring last year for 11.3, vga= doesn't actually do anything for most Intel, ATI & NVidia users. Please provide the output of your executing 'cat /proc/cmdline' if you're going to continue delaying our access to Xorg.0.log. It's not necessary if you give us Xorg.0.log, because it's included there.

The only difference between 31a and 31b is color bits, 16 vs 24 or 32 IIRC, and since it applies only to ttys, no one and nothing should care between them, if it even gets used in the first place.

For most Intel, ATI & NVidia users who want to specify tty mode via Grub kernel line in openSUSE 11.3 & up, vga= needs to be replaced with video=, in Stan's case, video=1280x1024 or video=1280x1024@60 or possibly another that includes also the bits number.

For users of other than the 3 chips above, and for those 3 who require KMS be disabled for whatever reason, vga= still works for the ttys. IOW, even with Intel, vga= will work if the same Grub line also includes nomodeset or i915.modeset=0.

FWIW https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=675793 is the bug about vga= I filed last year.

Please don't confuse what happens to, or Grub specifications for, tty video with X video. If you're not running *buntu, they aren't materially related, if related at all.

...

Letting the system choose its own settings again, it chose the easy way out by booting to level 3, even after I rebooted and specified "5" at the first graphic screen. In level 3, I went again to the file I had just edited, and removed the changes I had made. We are back again in level 5.

...

I've extracted the Xorg.0.log file that you asked for, but I haven't yet installed an ftp client on this machine, so I can't upload it for your

You don't have MC installed? It's the only FTP client I use.

...

inspection, and it's two large (26kB) to send to the list.

Two = 2^1, not usually anything to do with being oversize. ;-)

Golly, I committed a misspelling! And on the INTERNET, of all places!!! :-(

openSUSE list admins don't object to certain attachments, Xorg.0.log among them. Go for it.

I went for it. It is attached.

...

Unfortunately, the lines are not date/time-stamped, else I would know how to truncate it. If you can tell me how to define a short part that you want to see, I could send it now in a message. Else it will wait for tomorrow (?), when I may have FTP installed.

We want the whole thing. It gets written anew on each X start. It can run anywhere in size from under 10k to over 100k.

-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel

On 2011/07/21 02:34 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:

In 50-monitor.conf you need to try the following as 100% of the content (instead of the original file): Section "Monitor" Identifier "Default Monitor" VertRefresh 30-80 Option "TargetRefreshRate" "60" Option "DDC" "off" Option "DefaultModes" "on" Option "PreferredMode" "1280x1024" EndSection

A line like 'HorizSync 28-85' might also need to be added, while the DDC line may not be necessary. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2011/07/21 10:59 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

There appears to be a defect in the system. Once yesterday, and again just now, it rebooted spontaneously while I was writing (yesterday in the mailer, now in a terminal). Back to the merchant it goes. I'll be in touch.

Hmmm, I thought you bought a mobo/cpu to use with your old goodies, and not as PS. Are you sure that PS is up to task for a Sandy Bridge? If it was new old stock when purchased, it could be the infamous bad caps problem hitting you. PS testers are available online for about $20US, while to check for bad caps usually requires mere observation after cover removal. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 07/21/2011 09:34 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2011/07/21 08:43 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...

Felix Miata wrote:

...

...

openSUSE list admins don't object to certain attachments, Xorg.0.log among them. Go for it.

...

I went for it. It is attached.

(Next time, attach it inline, so that it can be read in all email apps without having to save to disk first. If you can't attach inline, change its name to something ending in .txt before attaching.) A 26kB inline message? It would never have occured to me. But.....OK.

Xorg.0.log has no EDID block, which means it's missing or broken. This is not a new monitor. I bought it when LCD monitors were still quite novel. Perhaps the necessity for a monitor to send its biography to its host hadn't yet been realized. Maybe what I really need is a new monitor. Except that they no longer come with a 4x3 aspect ratio, which is a bummer.

So, in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/:

In 50-monitor.conf you need to try the following as 100% of the content (instead of the original file): Section "Monitor" Identifier "Default Monitor" VertRefresh 30-80 Option "TargetRefreshRate" "60" Option "DDC" "off" Option "DefaultModes" "on" Option "PreferredMode" "1280x1024" EndSection

In 50-device.conf you need as 100% of the content the following: Section "Device" Identifier "Default Device" EndSection

In 50-screen.conf you need as 100% of the content the following: Section "Screen" Identifier "Default Screen" Device "Default Device" Monitor "Default Monitor" EndSection

Simply removing particular comment marks from the latter two files is probably easier than cut and paste from email, removing 3 from the former, 5 from the latter.

Those files' changes, to make up for bogus or missing EDID, should get you 1280x1024 @60 refresh, as long as /etc/X11/xorg.conf does not exist.

Before you do any of this config file futzing, be sure both ends of the VGA cable are secure, and try swapping end for end, and/or another cable. A bad cable connection or cable can make EDID fail, as can a defective motherboard VGA connector, and probably also the motherboard's video BIOS. Do you have any live CDs or DVDs you can boot to see if they get 1280x1024 without any fuss?

I can't swap, end for end or otherwise; there is no connector at the monitor end, it's connected permanently. Yes, I have a live Ubuntu 8.

If you lose keyboard and/or mouse by making those changes, 10-evdev.conf and/or 90-keytable.conf in xorg.conf.d/ may need tweaking, but let's not address how unless necessary.

-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 07/21/2011 11:29 AM, Karl-Heinz tm wrote:

----------------------------------------

...

Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 10:30:33 +0300 From: stan.goodman@hashkedim.com To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] Nvidia vs ATI [OT: Sandy Bridge]

snip

...

I can't swap, end for end or otherwise; there is no connector at the monitor end, it's connected permanently. Yes, I have a live Ubuntu 8. snip

just don't use such an old version if you try a live distribution, it's not going to give you any sort of Sandybridge support. Get ubuntu 11.04 (which gave me Sandybridge support otob) or OS11.4 live (which gave me proper resolution but a host of display errors; those can be fixed on an istalled system as described in "Ladislav's" thread that you mentioned earlier)

P.S.: *buntu doesn't use xorg.conf.d approach so my guess is that there you need the obsolete xorg.conf to override X's autodetection, but for OS11.4 Felix's method should be preferred.

/K.-H.

No problem. I'll d/l a current version of oS Live. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2011/07/21 10:30 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

Felix Miata wrote:

...

Xorg.0.log has no EDID block, which means it's missing or broken.

This is not a new monitor. I bought it when LCD monitors were still quite novel. Perhaps the necessity for a monitor to send its biography to its host hadn't yet been realized.

One LCD, rather old, built January 2003, but purchased by me off eBay only this year, that I use on a 24/7 machine has good EDID, which really wasn't that new even back then. Is yours even older?

Maybe what I really need is a new monitor. Except that they no longer come with a 4x3 aspect ratio, which is a bummer.

I too don't like TVs sold as puter displays. Less wide 16:10 models were still about last I looked, just less common than baby TVs. Yours wasn't 4:3 either. 1280x1024 is 5:4, which still exists online, though uncommonly in retail stores: http://tinyurl.com/3lrubvu 4:3 still can be had in 1600x1200 http://tinyurl.com/43yxfgz while to replace what I'm using to write this with ATM would require http://www.provantage.com/lg-electronics-l2000ce~7LGEL04K.htm or equivalent, rather less common but not yet dead.

I can't swap, end for end or otherwise; there is no connector at the monitor end, it's connected permanently.

I'm not sure I can recall ever seeing any LCD lacking separable cords, but as you say, yours is old.

Yes, I have a live Ubuntu 8.

No Sandy Bridge support in anything so old. To get something other than 1024x768 or worse you'd need something released this year, preferably post-11.4. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2011/07/21 13:50 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

Felix Miata wrote:

...

One LCD, rather old, built January 2003, but purchased by me off eBay only this year, that I use on a 24/7 machine has good EDID, which really wasn't that new even back then. Is yours even older?

It might well be older, who remembers? I know it was when I was using OS/2, but that doesn't mean anything.

You weren't supposed to remember. Most displays have a production date stamped somewhere on their backs near the model and serial numbers, and LCDs are small and light enough to easily turn to read same even if magnification is required to succeed.

...

I too don't like TVs sold as puter displays. Less wide 16:10 models were still about last I looked, just less common than baby TVs.

...

Yours wasn't 4:3 either. 1280x1024 is 5:4, which still exists online, though uncommonly in retail stores: http://tinyurl.com/3lrubvu

Yes. What I meant was that the only ones I see anymore are the wide screen kind. The merchant tells me that this is a strategic decision necessitated by gamers; they are ALL gamers apparently.

I doubt it has much to do with gamers. Less need for variety means more profitability. Selling 16:9 TVs as computer screens means less manufacturing tooling overhead, and thus less cost to pass upstream to merchants, while fewer model types to stock means less inventory overhead for wholesalers and retailers. For online merchants, either inventory overhead seems to be less of an issue, or niche market provision is more viable, or both, which in any event are reasons normal aspect can still be had.

...

4:3 still can be had in 1600x1200 http://tinyurl.com/43yxfgz while to replace what I'm using to write this with ATM would require http://www.provantage.com/lg-electronics-l2000ce~7LGEL04K.htm or equivalent, rather less common but not yet dead.

This, of course, is a much smaller market than the US, and one wouldn't expect importers to bring every possible sort of monitors, especially when the the market only wants wide screens.

Must everything in your country be purchased from local retailers? Is online purchasing from sources outside its borders not possible?

Additional example: I am supposed to take a buffered 325mg aspirin tablet every morning. There is only one (1), count 'em, one importer that brings aspirin, and the local Teva Pharmaceuticals (the worlds largest manufacturer of generic pharmaceuticals) doesn't make aspirin.

In the US, those using aspirin as phophylactic are usually recommended a much smaller dose, which is why stores here sell 81mg alongside 325mg, the latter for pain, the former for prophylaxis. I wonder if your case is rare, and/or your prescribing physician isn't up to speed

The importer decided, for his own convenience apparently, that he doesn't want to bother with large aspirin tablets. I now have to find a pharmacy or individual in Europe or the US to ship aspirin to me. Shameful, isn't it? Given that this is not an exotic substance.

I was recently prescribed Flomax, but found its US price prohibitive. I went online and found the made-in-Indonesia generic available delivered from a Canadian vendor for 1/5 the price. Waiting 2 weeks for delivery is inconvenient, but acceptable considering the alternative.

...

No Sandy Bridge support in anything so old. To get something other than 1024x768 or worse you'd need something released this year, preferably post-11.4.

POST 11.4? Is current Fedora new enough?

Should be. Ubuntu, about a month newer than 11.4, has been reported successfully supported with Sandy Bridge, and F15 is about a month newer still. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2011/07/21 14:34 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

Felix Miata wrote:

"...can be had" where you are.

...

Must everything in your country be purchased from local retailers? Is online purchasing from sources outside its borders not possible?

The question previously posed remains. Even if an unfortunate restriction applies, can not the local merchant(s) special order to your specifications? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

----------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 07:20:49 -0400 From: mrmazda@earthlink.net To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] Nvidia vs ATI [OT: Sandy Bridge]

On 2011/07/21 13:50 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...

Felix Miata wrote:

...

...

One LCD, rather old, built January 2003, but purchased by me off eBay only this year, that I use on a 24/7 machine has good EDID, which really wasn't that new even back then. Is yours even older?

...

It might well be older, who remembers? I know it was when I was using OS/2, but that doesn't mean anything.

You weren't supposed to remember. Most displays have a production date stamped somewhere on their backs near the model and serial numbers, and LCDs are small and light enough to easily turn to read same even if magnification is required to succeed.

...

...

I too don't like TVs sold as puter displays. Less wide 16:10 models were still about last I looked, just less common than baby TVs.

...

...

Yours wasn't 4:3 either. 1280x1024 is 5:4, which still exists online, though uncommonly in retail stores: http://tinyurl.com/3lrubvu

...

Yes. What I meant was that the only ones I see anymore are the wide screen kind. The merchant tells me that this is a strategic decision necessitated by gamers; they are ALL gamers apparently.

I doubt it has much to do with gamers. Less need for variety means more profitability. Selling 16:9 TVs as computer screens means less manufacturing tooling overhead, and thus less cost to pass upstream to merchants, while fewer model types to stock means less inventory overhead for wholesalers and retailers. For online merchants, either inventory overhead seems to be less of an issue, or niche market provision is more viable, or both, which in any event are reasons normal aspect can still be had.

Another theory is that they did it because they believe that we all (or we are all supposed to???) watch movies on those computer monitors. I also hated to see widescreen become mainstream a while ago but in the meantime, with 24" or even larger screens, I ended up finding the increased width quite convenient, for example if you want to work with a couple of larger windows open and visible at the same time (one left, on right) /K.-H.  

...

...

4:3 still can be had in 1600x1200 http://tinyurl.com/43yxfgz while to replace what I'm using to write this with ATM would require http://www.provantage.com/lg-electronics-l2000ce~7LGEL04K.htm or equivalent, rather less common but not yet dead.

...

This, of course, is a much smaller market than the US, and one wouldn't expect importers to bring every possible sort of monitors, especially when the the market only wants wide screens.

Must everything in your country be purchased from local retailers? Is online purchasing from sources outside its borders not possible?

...

Additional example: I am supposed to take a buffered 325mg aspirin tablet every morning. There is only one (1), count 'em, one importer that brings aspirin, and the local Teva Pharmaceuticals (the worlds largest manufacturer of generic pharmaceuticals) doesn't make aspirin.

In the US, those using aspirin as phophylactic are usually recommended a much smaller dose, which is why stores here sell 81mg alongside 325mg, the latter for pain, the former for prophylaxis. I wonder if your case is rare, and/or your prescribing physician isn't up to speed

...

The importer decided, for his own convenience apparently, that he doesn't want to bother with large aspirin tablets. I now have to find a pharmacy or individual in Europe or the US to ship aspirin to me. Shameful, isn't it? Given that this is not an exotic substance.

I was recently prescribed Flomax, but found its US price prohibitive. I went online and found the made-in-Indonesia generic available delivered from a Canadian vendor for 1/5 the price. Waiting 2 weeks for delivery is inconvenient, but acceptable considering the alternative.

...

...

No Sandy Bridge support in anything so old. To get something other than 1024x768 or worse you'd need something released this year, preferably post-11.4.

...

POST 11.4? Is current Fedora new enough?

Should be. Ubuntu, about a month newer than 11.4, has been reported successfully supported with Sandy Bridge, and F15 is about a month newer still. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 07/20/2011 01:01 PM, Stan Goodman wrote:

On 07/20/2011 08:01 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

...

On 2011/07/20 19:46 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...

So, I think, it is necessary only to change the refresh rate. But Personal Settings> Display and Monitor offers onlly 60Hz (or Auto, which doesn't help). It is very hard to believe that this acclaimed (by the manufacturer) driver and hardware can support only one refresh rate (which doesn't seem demandingly fast), and that one is possible only for

60 is standard for most LCDs. Anything other than 60 on a LCD is usually pointless, even if supported, possibly provided mainly for cards that don't support the native resolution at 60, but do at 72 or 75 or whatever.

...

very modest resolutions (the greatest being 1024x768). There really has to be more to this -- or the question of a standalone graphics care arises again.

What is your display type (CRT vs LCD/LED vs other)? What is the native resolution of your display? If you don't know the above, what make and model is it? What resolution were you using with the old motherboard (if you remember)? What resolution do you wish (if you know)? It's an LG Flatron LCD monitor, the model number of which slips my mind and is written on the back in letters too small to read, even when I put on my glasses.

With the previous board, i used the display with 1280x1024. My fallible memory of the refresh rate is 72, but it could well have been 60 or something else. I don't attach much importance to the refresh rate (all the usual rates are well above the flicker threshold), but I would like a higher resolution, as I had with the now defunct board.

LCD is almost always 60Hz. On the resolution problem, make sure you are not somehow invoking the vesafb (frame buffer) driver somewhere in the process before the driver you want to load is loaded (I'm still guessing your are playing with the "Intel HD Integrated Graphics"? -- or I might have missed the card switch somewhere in this thread) Regardless, I have had problems in the past with ATI drivers being installed, but the framebuffer driver loading when X loads. This was primarily an xorg.conf problem in the days before /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ setup. Check the files in this directory. The driver load section is usually in: /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-device.conf (or 50-device.conf.something) There you will find the familiar old: Section "Module" Disable "dri" Disable "dri2" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Default Device" Driver "radeonhd" Option "AccelMethod" "xaa" EndSection (of course your options and Driver will vary) Just check to make sure you are loading the Driver you think you are and that everything else makes sense. You can simply make backups of these files and play with the settings to try different drivers (restarting X in between changes) Xorg does a good job of choosing reasonable defaults now, but sometimes it still takes a bit of manual intervention. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org