[opensuse] /tmp/systemd-private-NNNNNN ?
On 12.3, I seem to be collecting a few of these in /tmp, right now 187. I've added a cronjob to clean them up, but shouldn't systemd be a bit tidier? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.2°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 24/10/13 02:57, Per Jessen escribió:
On 12.3, I seem to be collecting a few of these in /tmp, right now 187. I've added a cronjob to clean them up, but shouldn't systemd be a bit tidier?
This is a bug.. it has been fixed in 13.1 however, remeber to disable the cronjob when you upgrade. -- "Judging by their response, the meanest thing you can do to people on the Internet is to give them really good software for free". - Anil Dash -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 02:57, Per Jessen escribió:
On 12.3, I seem to be collecting a few of these in /tmp, right now 187. I've added a cronjob to clean them up, but shouldn't systemd be a bit tidier?
This is a bug.. it has been fixed in 13.1
No update for 12.3 ?
however, remeber to disable the cronjob when you upgrade.
:-) -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.2°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 24/10/13 03:12, Per Jessen escribió:
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 02:57, Per Jessen escribió:
On 12.3, I seem to be collecting a few of these in /tmp, right now 187. I've added a cronjob to clean them up, but shouldn't systemd be a bit tidier?
This is a bug.. it has been fixed in 13.1
No update for 12.3 ?
Nope.. pretty invasive change.. internal API changes across the board.. if it bothers you that much, just upgrade. or use /tmp as tmpfs ;-P -- "Judging by their response, the meanest thing you can do to people on the Internet is to give them really good software for free". - Anil Dash -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 03:12, Per Jessen escribió:
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 02:57, Per Jessen escribió:
On 12.3, I seem to be collecting a few of these in /tmp, right now 187. I've added a cronjob to clean them up, but shouldn't systemd be a bit tidier?
This is a bug.. it has been fixed in 13.1
No update for 12.3 ?
Nope.. pretty invasive change.. internal API changes across the board.. if it bothers you that much, just upgrade. or use /tmp as tmpfs ;-P
So this is the flexible, well-designed systemd where you can't even fix such critical bug? If it indroduces new feautures which are completely broken then just disable them per default. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 24/10/2013 09:54, Ruediger Meier a écrit :
On 12.3, I seem to be collecting a few of these in /tmp, right
So this is the flexible, well-designed systemd where you can't even fix such critical bug? If it indroduces new feautures which are completely broken then just disable them per default.
why is this so critical? tmp have to be cleaned anyway from time to time what du -sh /tmp says? jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 24 October 2013, jdd wrote:
Le 24/10/2013 09:54, Ruediger Meier a écrit :
On 12.3, I seem to be collecting a few of these in /tmp, right
So this is the flexible, well-designed systemd where you can't even fix such critical bug? If it indroduces new feautures which are completely broken then just disable them per default.
why is this so critical? tmp have to be cleaned anyway from time to time
Because it's systemd's job to clean it up nowadays and obviously it does not happen. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
jdd wrote:
Le 24/10/2013 09:54, Ruediger Meier a écrit :
On 12.3, I seem to be collecting a few of these in /tmp, right
So this is the flexible, well-designed systemd where you can't even fix such critical bug? If it indroduces new feautures which are completely broken then just disable them per default.
why is this so critical? tmp have to be cleaned anyway from time to time
It is by no means critical, but it looks stupid when a critical system component leaves temp files lying around. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.0°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2013-10-24 09:59, jdd wrote:
Le 24/10/2013 09:54, Ruediger Meier a écrit :
why is this so critical? tmp have to be cleaned anyway from time to time
Because the cron job that deleted files in tmp has been removed from the system, as systemd was going to do it. Obviously it doesn't ;-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlJpUg0ACgkQja8UbcUWM1wUTwD+P40wrnDxDxv+8uupLKu78EGx dbG3vFXxvgTg03TyF5kA/08nTK06esVfzbeOYnfzgk6X4oxmQU71QUTfnUCWgeL9 =PpAS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 24/10/2013 18:59, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
Because the cron job that deleted files in tmp has been removed from the system, as systemd was going to do it. Obviously it doesn't ;-)
default was never to remove root tmp files, and I just verify that max_day_in_tmp and the associated scripts are here in yast so may be a default was changed. jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2013-10-24 21:45, jdd wrote:
Le 24/10/2013 18:59, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
Because the cron job that deleted files in tmp has been removed from the system, as systemd was going to do it. Obviously it doesn't ;-)
default was never to remove root tmp files, and I just verify that max_day_in_tmp and the associated scripts are here in yast
The settings are available in yast, yes, but not the cron scripts. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlJpfpMACgkQja8UbcUWM1y89gD8Cm/9Z4pq5tBpQWPBHouvhLHd ZvfE68lfc9ipp6eltS4A/115kHhf+kyIvMYFF0vI1aLLf1ERF5qkVSEDqcPltGlm =01p/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 24/10/13 04:54, Ruediger Meier escribió:
So this is the flexible, well-designed systemd where you can't even fix such critical bug? If it indroduces new feautures which are completely broken then just disable them per default.
It is not a critical problem as it do not affect the the execution of any application and those directories usually only contain a few KB of data if any. As I said, the problem has been corrected in systemd 199 or later. -- "Judging by their response, the meanest thing you can do to people on the Internet is to give them really good software for free". - Anil Dash -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 24/10/13 04:54, Ruediger Meier escribió:
So this is the flexible, well-designed systemd where you can't even fix such critical bug? If it indroduces new feautures which are completely broken then just disable them per default.
It is not a critical problem as it do not affect the the execution of any application and those directories usually only contain a few KB of data if any.
As I said, the problem has been corrected in systemd 199 or later.
-- "Judging by their response, the meanest thing you can do to people on the Internet is to give them really good software for free". - Anil Dash -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org I have 145 MB in /tmp (on 12.3), mostly the above mentioned 0 bit folders. I am on 195 for systemd, Is it safe to run a cron job to delete
On Thursday, October 24, 2013 01:02:05 PM Cristian Rodríguez wrote: them? Thanks Russ -- openSUSE 12.3(Linux 3.11.1-3.gfeffbf9-desktop)|KDE 4.11.2 |Intel core2duo 2.5 MHZ,|8GB DDR3|GeForce 8400GS (NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-325.15 Patched) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 24/10/13 17:41, Upscope escribió:
Is it safe to run a cron job to delete them?
Those who were not accessed in a number of days..yes.. -- "If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday, October 24, 2013 05:44:32 PM Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 17:41, Upscope escribió:
Is it safe to run a cron job to delete them?
Those who were not accessed in a number of days..yes..
-- "If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org Thanks. I will just delete the empty ones prior to Oct. 1st. -- openSUSE 12.3(Linux 3.11.1-3.gfeffbf9-desktop)|KDE 4.11.2 |Intel core2duo 2.5 MHZ,|8GB DDR3|GeForce 8400GS (NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-325.15 Patched)
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 03:12, Per Jessen escribió:
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 02:57, Per Jessen escribió:
On 12.3, I seem to be collecting a few of these in /tmp, right now 187. I've added a cronjob to clean them up, but shouldn't systemd be a bit tidier?
This is a bug.. it has been fixed in 13.1
No update for 12.3 ?
Nope.. pretty invasive change.. internal API changes across the board.. if it bothers you that much, just upgrade.
or use /tmp as tmpfs ;-P
It does clean up tmpfs at run-time or only at reboot? cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 24/10/13 04:57, Ruediger Meier escribió:
It does clean up tmpfs at run-time or only at reboot?
at runtime. -- "Judging by their response, the meanest thing you can do to people on the Internet is to give them really good software for free". - Anil Dash -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 04:57, Ruediger Meier escribió:
It does clean up tmpfs at run-time or only at reboot?
at runtime.
So currently it depends on the tmpfs file system to be able to clean /tmp/systemd-private-NNNNNN automatically? How bad is this. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 24/10/13 13:38, Ruediger Meier escribió:
So currently it depends on the tmpfs file system to be able to clean /tmp/systemd-private-NNNNNN automatically? How bad is this.
No, current versions re-use and clean up the directories as needed, it does not depend on tmpfs but it is recommended that you use it. -- "If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 13:38, Ruediger Meier escribió:
So currently it depends on the tmpfs file system to be able to clean /tmp/systemd-private-NNNNNN automatically? How bad is this.
No, current versions re-use and clean up the directories as needed, it does not depend on tmpfs but it is recommended that you use it.
But you said some posts before that using tmpfs would "solve" the problem of not cleaning /tmp/systemd-private-NNNNNN. What is the difference between using tmpfs and some other FS? cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2013-10-24 20:05, Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
But you said some posts before that using tmpfs would "solve" the problem of not cleaning /tmp/systemd-private-NNNNNN. What is the difference between using tmpfs and some other FS?
It doesn't really "solve". A tmpfs is volatile, so when you reboot it disappears. A full erase of the directory at boot or halt does exactly the same. Of course, a tmpfs is faster, as long as all the files in there are small so it does not eat your memory. And it doesn't "solve" the problem, because if you do not reboot in a year the files would be there all the same. By the thousands. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlJpZ+kACgkQja8UbcUWM1ypVwD9FoLJpC6o0hLMNUbWLStwzFLi lDx6uMw2leTjWaStMVwA/0DFqrsSFLSzz0rs36dZqik76qgkKcZkNmE19PwElfz/ =nGVA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
And it doesn't "solve" the problem, because if you do not reboot in a year the files would be there all the same. By the thousands.
One of my core systems: # uptime 8:45pm up 1211 days 10:35, 2 users, load average: 0.70, 1.00, 1.12 But it's not running systemd, it's way too old for that. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.1°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2013-10-24 20:05, Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
But you said some posts before that using tmpfs would "solve" the problem of not cleaning /tmp/systemd-private-NNNNNN. What is the difference between using tmpfs and some other FS?
It doesn't really "solve". A tmpfs is volatile, so when you reboot it disappears. A full erase of the directory at boot or halt does exactly the same.
Of course, a tmpfs is faster, as long as all the files in there are small so it does not eat your memory.
And it doesn't "solve" the problem, because if you do not reboot in a year the files would be there all the same. By the thousands.
So Cristan's "solution" means use tmpfs to have a memleak instead of wasting disk space. Memleak is not critical because it gets fixed automatically by reboot ... cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 24/10/13 16:06, Ruediger Meier escribió:
So Cristan's "solution" means use tmpfs to have a memleak instead of wasting disk space.
There will be no practical memory leak.. -- "If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 16:06, Ruediger Meier escribió:
So Cristan's "solution" means use tmpfs to have a memleak instead of wasting disk space.
There will be no practical memory leak..
ohhh ... eating memory and never freeing is a memory leak. I don't know what a "practical" memory leak is. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 24/10/13 17:48, Ruediger Meier escribió:
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 16:06, Ruediger Meier escribió:
So Cristan's "solution" means use tmpfs to have a memleak instead of wasting disk space.
There will be no practical memory leak..
ohhh ... eating memory and never freeing is a memory leak. I don't know what a "practical" memory leak is.
tmpfs lives in the kernel page cache, the kernel may compress or swap out the few kilobytes necessary for each unused directory entry. -- "If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 17:48, Ruediger Meier escribió:
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 16:06, Ruediger Meier escribió:
So Cristan's "solution" means use tmpfs to have a memleak instead of wasting disk space.
There will be no practical memory leak..
ohhh ... eating memory and never freeing is a memory leak. I don't know what a "practical" memory leak is.
tmpfs lives in the kernel page cache, the kernel may compress or swap out the few kilobytes necessary for each unused directory entry.
Don't tell me obvious things. The amount of usable memory is eaten up by tmpfs. If one uses tmpfs then it's even more important to clean it up. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 03:12, Per Jessen escribió:
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 02:57, Per Jessen escribió:
On 12.3, I seem to be collecting a few of these in /tmp, right now 187. I've added a cronjob to clean them up, but shouldn't systemd be a bit tidier?
This is a bug.. it has been fixed in 13.1
No update for 12.3 ?
Nope.. pretty invasive change.. internal API changes across the board. if it bothers you that much, just upgrade. or use /tmp as tmpfs ;-P
That's a pity, but my cronjob is sufficient :-) -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.0°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Per Jessen wrote:
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 03:12, Per Jessen escribió:
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 02:57, Per Jessen escribió:
On 12.3, I seem to be collecting a few of these in /tmp, right now 187. I've added a cronjob to clean them up, but shouldn't systemd be a bit tidier?
This is a bug.. it has been fixed in 13.1
No update for 12.3 ?
Nope.. pretty invasive change.. internal API changes across the board. if it bothers you that much, just upgrade. or use /tmp as tmpfs ;-P
That's a pity, but my cronjob is sufficient :-)
IMO it's not just a pity it's a scandal ;) There have been endless discussions about tempdirs, systemd, private temp, tmpfs, etc ... Finally /etc/cron.daily/suse.de-clean-tmp was removed with no replacement and settings in /etc/sysconfig/cron are ignored now just to break existing setups. HD will be filled up to 100% ... and ... it's not fixable(?). Sounds like a bad joke. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 24/10/13 06:32, Ruediger Meier escribió:
Finally /etc/cron.daily/suse.de-clean-tmp was removed with no replacement and settings in /etc/sysconfig/cron are ignored now just to break existing setups.
as it should..that was all pretty bad actually. HD will be filled up to 100% ... The HDD will not get filled to 100%, that is non-sense. and ... it's
not fixable(?). Yes, it fixable by upgrading to the next opensuse version.
-- "Judging by their response, the meanest thing you can do to people on the Internet is to give them really good software for free". - Anil Dash -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/24/2013 12:09 PM, Cristian Rodríguez pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
El 24/10/13 06:32, Ruediger Meier escribió:
Finally /etc/cron.daily/suse.de-clean-tmp was removed with no replacement and settings in /etc/sysconfig/cron are ignored now just to break existing setups.
as it should..that was all pretty bad actually.
HD will be filled up to 100% ...
The HDD will not get filled to 100%, that is non-sense.
and ... it's
not fixable(?). Yes, it fixable by upgrading to the next opensuse version.
Is this going to be your standard answer for systend problems? How about a security fix that needs to be done? Is it still your answer, to upgrade to the next version of the OS? And wouldn't this problem potentally be a security problem with 100's or 1000's of files left in /tmp? And no a reboot is not always possible on a server. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 24/10/13 13:32, Ken Schneider - openSUSE escribió:
How about a security fix that needs to be done?
security fixes will show up as usual in the update channel.. Is it still your answer, to
upgrade to the next version of the OS? And wouldn't this problem potentally be a security problem with 100's or 1000's of files left in /tmp? And no a reboot is not always possible on a server.
No, those files (if any, as I said before directories are most of the time empty) are only accessible to the root user. -- "If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Ken Schneider - openSUSE schrieb:
Is this going to be your standard answer for systend problems? How about a security fix that needs to be done? Is it still your answer, to upgrade to the next version of the OS? And wouldn't this problem potentally be a security problem with 100's or 1000's of files left in /tmp? And no a reboot is not always possible on a server.
Personally I would prefer to get a fixed version of Systemd also for openSUSE 12.3 but it's not important for me, because I plan to upgrade to 13.1. Currently I clean up my /tmp/systemd-private-NNNNNN files with the following command or shell script: find /tmp/ -maxdepth 1 -name "systemd-private-*" -type d \ -mtime +7 -exec rmdir -v {} \; I am not sure, but I think, the "rmdir" commands does not cause security problems. The /tmp/systemd-private-NNNNNN directories are owned by root:root, but every user can create files in these directories. The "rmdir" command refuses to remove none-empty directories. My question: Why systemd refuses to clean any empty directory in /tmp? My oldest empty directories in /tmp are from 1970 (/tmp/orbit-myusername), 2008 (/tmp/orbit-bv) and 2011 (/tmp/kmail-migrator). Greetings, Björn -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 24/10/13 15:51, Bjoern Voigt escribió:
My question: Why systemd refuses to clean any empty directory in /tmp? My oldest empty directories in /tmp are from 1970 (/tmp/orbit-myusername), 2008 (/tmp/orbit-bv) and 2011 (/tmp/kmail-migrator).
This is a question you have to ask the people that reported bugs requesting systemd not to clean /tmp ... it is not a bug, systemd does not clean /tmp because openSUSE packages alter the default behaviour due to user's requests. -- "If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/24/2013 12:10 PM, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 15:51, Bjoern Voigt escribió:
My question: Why systemd refuses to clean any empty directory in /tmp? My oldest empty directories in /tmp are from 1970 (/tmp/orbit-myusername), 2008 (/tmp/orbit-bv) and 2011 (/tmp/kmail-migrator).
This is a question you have to ask the people that reported bugs requesting systemd not to clean /tmp ... it is not a bug, systemd does not clean /tmp because openSUSE packages alter the default behaviour due to user's requests.
With all the WON'T FIX statuses freely doled out, why do some, which inflict breakage on everyone get accepted? Also, when explaining some of the decisions made and the wild changes recommended to work around bugs, do you not realize it would take less of your time to fix the problem than it takes to explain it on various lists? Anytime I'm writing documentation and find myself twisting into knots trying to explain a stupid provision or requirement, I just stop and fix the code rathern than trying to document madness. -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 24/10/13 16:56, John Andersen escribió:
With all the WON'T FIX statuses freely doled out, why do some, which inflict breakage on everyone get accepted?
In this case, people requested systemd not to clean /tmp and not to use tmpfs, I personally disagree with this assessment completely, but that is just me, I am just another developer which may or may not have influence over the policies.
Also, when explaining some of the decisions made and the wild changes recommended to work around bugs, do you not realize it would take less of your time to fix the problem than it takes to explain it on various lists?
Well that's because you don't seem to understand that fixing a particular issue is not the main concern, maintaining such fixes and dealing with the potential fallouts however is. -- "If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 16:56, John Andersen escribió:
With all the WON'T FIX statuses freely doled out, why do some, which inflict breakage on everyone get accepted?
In this case, people requested systemd not to clean /tmp and not to use tmpfs, I personally disagree with this assessment completely, but that is just me, I am just another developer which may or may not have influence over the policies.
/tmp was never tmpfs on openSUSE. Suddenly then ones who don't want to change anything are guilty when things don't work anymore?
Also, when explaining some of the decisions made and the wild changes recommended to work around bugs, do you not realize it would take less of your time to fix the problem than it takes to explain it on various lists?
Well that's because you don't seem to understand that fixing a particular issue is not the main concern, maintaining such fixes and dealing with the potential fallouts however is.
You should think about the maintanance before breaking things. Just breaking them and then telling us that the fix requires too much maintanance is absurd. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 24/10/13 17:44, Ruediger Meier escribió:
Just breaking them and then telling us that the fix requires too much maintanance is absurd.
You think it is absurd most likely because you have no experience whatsoever doing distributions. give it a try and you may then understand my position better. -- "If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/24/2013 02:05 PM, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 17:44, Ruediger Meier escribió:
Just breaking them and then telling us that the fix requires too much maintanance is absurd. You think it is absurd most likely because you have no experience whatsoever doing distributions. give it a try and you may then understand my position better.
-- "If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra --+
For once, Cristian's sig line is spot on. ;-) Lets face it, 12.3 is a very good release, in spite of having systemd being only half implemented. It took me less time to schedule Bjoern Voight's suggestion (up-thread) than it took to write this email. Put your big boy pants on guys, and just fix it and move on. I dare say no one on this list will be on 12.3 long enough for the wasted disk space to matter. -- Explain again the part about rm -rf / -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 17:44, Ruediger Meier escribió:
Just breaking them and then telling us that the fix requires too much maintanance is absurd.
You think it is absurd most likely because you have no experience whatsoever doing distributions. give it a try and you may then understand my position better.
Your experience about distributions is just about the single one you are using at home. You have no clue about administrating reasonable systems for different use cases with different services or different human users . If you would administrate one single non-factory system for real work, for many (advanced) users, no downtimes, much load ... then you would understand that it's the worst thing if the selected distribution always solves WONTFIX. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2013-10-24 23:36, Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 17:44, Ruediger Meier escribió:
Just breaking them and then telling us that the fix requires too much maintanance is absurd.
You think it is absurd most likely because you have no experience whatsoever doing distributions. give it a try and you may then understand my position better.
Your experience about distributions is just about the single one you are using at home. You have no clue about administrating reasonable systems for different use cases with different services or different human users .
If you would administrate one single non-factory system for real work, for many (advanced) users, no downtimes, much load ... then you would understand that it's the worst thing if the selected distribution always solves WONTFIX.
Cristian is probably right. Correcting that issue, important as it is, may break may other things, in manners that will only be seen after distributing the update. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlJppWoACgkQja8UbcUWM1yAJgD+OappVgip2KnthQSji3aLmX/K WNB3/k6ck0Tg8jaaH+YA/0+jPmxFolyx427jAjudetFE/ZcXz9XcokbLhDomc6Av =oZwJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 06:32, Ruediger Meier escribió:
Finally /etc/cron.daily/suse.de-clean-tmp was removed with no replacement and settings in /etc/sysconfig/cron are ignored now just to break existing setups.
as it should..that was all pretty bad actually.
Why bad? Because it worked for years without problems? And because it was evil shell code, easy to fix for everybody?
HD will be filled up to 100% ...
The HDD will not get filled to 100%, that is non-sense.
How this could be non-sense if it's NEVER cleaned up? How you know my /tmp size and my quota settings?
and ... it's
not fixable(?).
Yes, it fixable by upgrading to the next opensuse version.
lol thats really flexible. You suggest to download 5 GB new distro packages, and to exchange every single file in /usr to fix something which has always worked in past. A next opensuse version does not exist yet and upgrade is usually no option anyways. Not everybody has just a playing box at home where it doesn't matter if it's running or not. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 24/10/13 13:41, Ruediger Meier escribió:
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 06:32, Ruediger Meier escribió:
Finally /etc/cron.daily/suse.de-clean-tmp was removed with no replacement and settings in /etc/sysconfig/cron are ignored now just to break existing setups.
as it should..that was all pretty bad actually.
Why bad?
because it was non programable by individual packages and it was papering over bugs in other applications that leave files around.
How this could be non-sense if it's NEVER cleaned up? How you know my /tmp size and my quota settings?
Well, if you are doing something insane then empty directories might fill up your filesystem..
lol thats really flexible. You suggest to download 5 GB new distro packages, and to exchange every single file in /usr to fix something which has always worked in past.
No, what I am telling you is that, yes, it was a non-critical implementation error, that went along because systemd defaults (which we do not use in this case) assumes that at startup /tmp is tmpfs and that you will at least reboot the machine for a kernel update once in a while. I am also telling you it is not a major concern and that it has been already fixed in 13.1. -- "If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 13:41, Ruediger Meier escribió:
On Thursday 24 October 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 24/10/13 06:32, Ruediger Meier escribió:
Finally /etc/cron.daily/suse.de-clean-tmp was removed with no replacement and settings in /etc/sysconfig/cron are ignored now just to break existing setups.
as it should..that was all pretty bad actually.
Why bad?
because it was non programable by individual packages and it was papering over bugs in other applications that leave files around.
If any existing file in tmp cause another applications to fail then it's a bug in that application.
How this could be non-sense if it's NEVER cleaned up? How you know my /tmp size and my quota settings?
Well, if you are doing something insane then empty directories might fill up your filesystem..
So the content is always deleted but not the dir itself?
lol thats really flexible. You suggest to download 5 GB new distro packages, and to exchange every single file in /usr to fix something which has always worked in past.
No, what I am telling you is that, yes, it was a non-critical implementation error, that went along because systemd defaults (which we do not use in this case) assumes that at startup /tmp is tmpfs and that you will at least reboot the machine for a kernel update once in a while.
Yeah it's known that systemd defaults are supposed to work on grandmothers cell phone which has weak battery anyways.
I am also telling you it is not a major concern and that it has been already fixed in 13.1.
13.1 is not a release yet. 12.3 is the most recent one. Just fix that bug for 12.3. and stop stupid arguing that's impossible or not important. You are one of the guys who told us that systemd is the better design - this is a situation where you can show us how easy it is to setup things like they should be. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 24/10/13 15:52, Ruediger Meier escribió:
So the content is always deleted but not the dir itself?
The contents of the directory are property of the relevant service for which a private /tmp namespace has been setup... when the service is stopped or considered "dead" the contents if any are garbage collected by systemd.
Just fix that bug for 12.3.
No, I won't. I determine in what I invest my time not you. and stop stupid arguing that's impossible or
not important.
I never told you that fixing it is impossible, what I told you is that the changesets needed to match 13.1 behaviour are rather invasive and that I my personal opinion,the risks of patching this non-critical problem, that does not negatively affect the runtime of any service or application outweight the benefits. Someone else that has the needed understanding might disagree with me and is free to do at his or own risk though. -- "If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (10)
-
Bjoern Voigt -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Cristian Rodríguez -
jdd -
John Andersen -
Ken Schneider - openSUSE -
Per Jessen -
Ruediger Meier -
Upscope