[opensuse] Compiling the Suse way

Constant Brouerius van Nidek

3 Jun 2008 3 Jun '08

14:23

Have never felt the need to compile anything because practically everything you need is nicely packaged for OpenSUSE. I have now a webcam on my 10.3 which will not work properly with the gstreamer0.10 and its plugins, the good, bad and ugly. There have been several bugs solved which are not included in the 10.3 suse packages. I was told the that the versions of my OS are all older so i should have to compile it all from source...plugins and the application itself. Version of the good plugin e.g. is 0.10.8 now (my version gstreamer010-plugins-good = 0.10.6-41@i586) so a lot of bugs have been fixed. Before I start compiling I would like to know if the gstreamer packages for 11.0 are up to date and if I could use them in 10.3. If not, I can remember that in order to keep suse specific changes in a compilation there was a way to get the compilation done. Or was that only for compiling kernels? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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Carlos E. R.

3 Jun 3 Jun

14:41

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2008-06-03 at 21:23 +0700, Constant Brouerius van Nidek wrote:

...

Before I start compiling I would like to know if the gstreamer packages for 11.0 are up to date and if I could use them in 10.3.

Search here: http://packages.opensuse-community.org/ Generally, it is not a good idea to use another version.

...

If not, I can remember that in order to keep suse specific changes in a compilation there was a way to get the compilation done. Or was that only for compiling kernels?

Huh? I'm not sure I follow you. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIRVgrtTMYHG2NR9URArR5AJwNEDFBFuEbv0dD96bDvETIObfX7ACfdGv6 O0xNdfPnwCW53G+9GCN0Zd8= =svaZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Constant Brouerius van Nidek

16:48

On Tuesday 03 June 2008, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The Tuesday 2008-06-03 at 21:23 +0700, Constant Brouerius van Nidek wrote:

...
Before I start compiling I would like to know if the gstreamer packages for 11.0 are up to date and if I could use them in 10.3.

Search here:

http://packages.opensuse-community.org/

Generally, it is not a good idea to use another version.

Okay, good point. But if I compare the versions of 10.3 and factory those of the factory are newer. Can or should I work with factory? Where stands the term factory for?

...

...
If not, I can remember that in order to keep suse specific changes in a compilation there was a way to get the compilation done. Or was that only for compiling kernels?

Huh? I'm not sure I follow you.

You were right dumb rambling. No coffee in stock. Drinking tea ;( I have looked already at Packman and are working with them. The are not working in my case. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer

18:00

On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:48 PM, Constant Brouerius van Nidek wrote:

...

On Tuesday 03 June 2008, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
The Tuesday 2008-06-03 at 21:23 +0700, Constant Brouerius van Nidek wrote:

...
Before I start compiling I would like to know if the gstreamer packages for 11.0 are up to date and if I could use them in 10.3.

Search here:

http://packages.opensuse-community.org/

Generally, it is not a good idea to use another version.

Okay, good point. But if I compare the versions of 10.3 and factory those of the factory are newer. Can or should I work with factory? Where stands the term factory for?

A factory is a place you find unfinished goods that will eventually be finished and shipped to customers. Suse has chosen to use the phrase to describe their packages that have not yet been through a serious testing and finishing effort. I assume at a point like this, close to 11.0's release, the factory stuff is close to finished and ready to ship. Indeed many packages may be shippable by now, but shortly after 11.0's release the factory will get updated with all the latest packages and the finishing process will start again. The various alpha's, beta's, rc's get pulled from the factory so that everyone doing testing etc is working with the same set of rpms, but if you want the absolute latest rpm for a given package, then the factory is the place to get it. Greg -- Greg Freemyer Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer First 99 Days Litigation White Paper - http://www.norcrossgroup.com/forms/whitepapers/99%20Days%20whitepaper.pdf The Norcross Group The Intersection of Evidence & Technology http://www.norcrossgroup.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

19:10

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2008-06-03 at 23:48 +0700, Constant Brouerius van Nidek wrote:

...

On Tuesday 03 June 2008, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...
Generally, it is not a good idea to use another version.

Okay, good point. But if I compare the versions of 10.3 and factory those of the factory are newer. Can or should I work with factory? Where stands the term factory for?

Factory is the next version while it is being tested and developped. Currently it is the future 11.0. The problem is that any other version, including factory, is designed for a different set of libraries that those you have installed. It might not work, or it might, or it might develop strange symptoms. You can try the packman repo, or wait a month till 11.0 is released and try that. Or try factory on a different partition, or try the live version without installing anything. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIRZcptTMYHG2NR9URAseKAKCSJsTvjQ7zOBD79olfanE/btmNkwCgk9jv ssdTZr7ztJTBbkEpWDagiEQ= =ghEE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

4 Jun 4 Jun

05:00

On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 23:48:53 +0700, Constant Brouerius van Nidek wrote:

...

Where stands the term factory for?

Factory is the development version of openSUSE, like unstable in debian. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Joe Morris

3 Jun 3 Jun

14:44

On 06/03/2008 10:23 PM, Constant Brouerius van Nidek wrote:

...

Have never felt the need to compile anything because practically everything you need is nicely packaged for OpenSUSE. I have now a webcam on my 10.3 which will not work properly with the gstreamer0.10 and its plugins, the good, bad and ugly. There have been several bugs solved which are not included in the 10.3 suse packages. I was told the that the versions of my OS are all older so i should have to compile it all from source...plugins and the application itself. Version of the good plugin e.g. is 0.10.8 now (my version gstreamer010-plugins-good = 0.10.6-41@i586) so a lot of bugs have been fixed.

Before I start compiling I would like to know if the gstreamer packages for 11.0 are up to date and if I could use them in 10.3.

If not, I can remember that in order to keep suse specific changes in a compilation there was a way to get the compilation done. Or was that only for compiling kernels?

Check packman -- Joe Morris Registered Linux user 231871 running openSUSE 10.3 x86_64 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Jim Flanagan

5 Jun 5 Jun

19:02

Constant Brouerius van Nidek wrote:

...

Have never felt the need to compile anything because practically everything you need is nicely packaged for OpenSUSE. I have now a webcam on my 10.3 which will not work properly with the gstreamer0.10 and its plugins, the good, bad and ugly. There have been several bugs solved which are not included in the 10.3 suse packages. I was told the that the versions of my OS are all older so i should have to compile it all from source...plugins and the application itself. Version of the good plugin e.g. is 0.10.8 now (my version gstreamer010-plugins-good = 0.10.6-41@i586) so a lot of bugs have been fixed.

Before I start compiling I would like to know if the gstreamer packages for 11.0 are up to date and if I could use them in 10.3.

If not, I can remember that in order to keep suse specific changes in a compilation there was a way to get the compilation done. Or was that only for compiling kernels?

I am no expert on this, but what you want to do is to make an RPM which you will then install with yast or other package manager in opensuse. The traditional way is to use configure > make > make install. (This is a summary, not a step by step guide) The second way is to use the opensuse build service. I have tried the first, but not the second, which is newer. These two methods will make an RPM that is suitable for the same version of opensuse that you built it on, but able and suited to run on many different hardware configurations. I have used a third method in the past that has worked well for me. It is a simpler way that produces an RPM tailored for your specific machine, but not really ideal (or maybe not workable) on a different machine. You can use this if you don't need to distribute the RPM to others or use it on different machines yourself. This method uses configure > make > checkinstall (instead of make install). You will download the source code of your intended software, and follow the procedure to make your RPM. See this wiki article here. It is a bit old, but still works AFAIK. Note the part where you run as a regular user, then su to root for the remainder. http://susewiki.org/index.php?title=Building_Simple_RPMs Jim F -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

20:55

On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:02:09 -0500, Jim Flanagan wrote:

...

This method uses configure > make > checkinstall (instead of make install).

Checkinstall has been dropped from openSUSE because it doesn't work anymore. Checkinstall's trick is to load a library via LD_PRELOAD that redirects all functions dealing with files. Now for installing a package you need to be root and for programs running with root privileges the dynamic loader ignores LD_PRELOAD as this would otherwise be a huge security problem. So checkinstall has become useless and was therefore dropped. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Jim Flanagan

21:03

Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:02:09 -0500, Jim Flanagan wrote:

...
This method uses configure > make > checkinstall (instead of make install).

Checkinstall has been dropped from openSUSE because it doesn't work anymore. Checkinstall's trick is to load a library via LD_PRELOAD that redirects all functions dealing with files. Now for installing a package you need to be root and for programs running with root privileges the dynamic loader ignores LD_PRELOAD as this would otherwise be a huge security problem.

So checkinstall has become useless and was therefore dropped.

Philipp

Oops, I didn't know that. I guess its been a while since I've needed to build an RPM. So how does one go about making a home rolled RPM for opensuse these days?? Jim F -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

6 Jun 6 Jun

00:55

On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 16:03:28 -0500, Jim Flanagan wrote:

...

Oops, I didn't know that.

Sorry, I should have written that I dropped the package for the upcoming 11.0 .

...

I guess its been a while since I've needed to build an RPM. So how does one go about making a home rolled RPM for opensuse these days??

I guess it boils down to writing a .spec file, i.e. really building your own rpm. It isn't that hard, really! Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

01:18

New subject: [opensuse] Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2008-06-06 at 02:55 +0200, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

...
I guess its been a while since I've needed to build an RPM. So how does one go about making a home rolled RPM for opensuse these days??

I guess it boils down to writing a .spec file, i.e. really building your own rpm. It isn't that hard, really!

Not for you programmers, but it is for us plain users. I don't care about the produced rpm, I'm not going to distribute it anywere; I simply want to fool the rpm database into thinking there is such rpm installed and stop yast from wanting to install the official one I removed to install mine instead. And it makes life so much easier when I want to remove what I installed. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISJB9tTMYHG2NR9URAr/9AJ9dQUZXE3TIlNk9KOvLwQiDAjAB8wCeIvPv qHS2sab8KXBDfu9OPveegUU= =JvFx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

09:19

New subject: [opensuse] Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 03:18:53 +0200 (CEST), Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Not for you programmers, but it is for us plain users.

O come on! It's mostly the same commands you issue on the command line plus a few lines in the header and you have tons of examples plus the documentation in the opensuse wiki. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Clayton

09:47

New subject: [opensuse] Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

...

...
Not for you programmers, but it is for us plain users.

O come on! It's mostly the same commands you issue on the command line plus a few lines in the header and you have tons of examples plus the documentation in the opensuse wiki.

According to this: http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Build_Tutorial#Step_Five_-_Create_the_spec_file the spec file is " a complex topic" that refers me to here: http://en.opensuse.org/Packaging/SUSE_Package_Conventions I started reading this... but I am not wanting to build a package to put back into the repos.. I just want a locally installable RPM that I build quickly and easily myself. So far this spec file does not seem to be easy to the uninitiated. i am not saying I could not learn it... but how does this equate to "mostly the same", and the implication that this is an easy process for someone who wants a local RPM? I also looked here: http://en.opensuse.org/Packaging and didn't find anything that looked as simple and easy as checkinstall is. I am not saying that building a spec file is impossible, but it is _definitely_ not as clean and simple as checkinstall to those who have never had to build a "proper" RPM... to those of us who just want a quick and simple way to make an RPM for our own use. Removing checkinstall may have made sense given the reasons.... but it does leave a huge gap between those on the inside who are familiar with the RPM build process and those lurking on the fringes. If it is removed, fine, but there really needs to be a replacement... either CLEAR non-developer documentation explaining the exact steps with no fluff or long winded explanations.. or a full app/script replacement. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

10:33

New subject: [opensuse] Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2008-06-06 at 11:47 +0200, Clayton wrote:

...

...
...
Not for you programmers, but it is for us plain users.

O come on! It's mostly the same commands you issue on the command line plus a few lines in the header and you have tons of examples plus the documentation in the opensuse wiki.

According to this: http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Build_Tutorial#Step_Five_-_Create_the_spec_file the spec file is " a complex topic" that refers me to here:

....

...

Removing checkinstall may have made sense given the reasons.... but it does leave a huge gap between those on the inside who are familiar with the RPM build process and those lurking on the fringes. If it is removed, fine, but there really needs to be a replacement... either CLEAR non-developer documentation explaining the exact steps with no fluff or long winded explanations.. or a full app/script replacement.

Absolutely! +1 to all that you said. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISRJ4tTMYHG2NR9URAjnoAJ9zNAdyqRmd/qkelcOM33Cl0Cf5WACfd3sh lqg2WLGJZ7saZYsXrD/BLis= =Y0Vh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

James Knott

11:28

New subject: [opensuse] Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

Clayton wrote:

...

Removing checkinstall may have made sense given the reasons.... but it does leave a huge gap between those on the inside who are familiar with the RPM build process and those lurking on the fringes. If it is removed, fine, but there really needs to be a replacement... either CLEAR non-developer documentation explaining the exact steps with no fluff or long winded explanations.. or a full app/script replacement.

C.

I agree. I have often used it to "roll my own" RPMs from source. There should be a replacement. -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hans Witvliet

22:17

New subject: [opensuse] Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

On Fri, 2008-06-06 at 11:47 +0200, Clayton wrote:

...

I am not saying that building a spec file is impossible, but it is _definitely_ not as clean and simple as checkinstall to those who have never had to build a "proper" RPM... to those of us who just want a quick and simple way to make an RPM for our own use.

It's not impossible. However there are few who can do it correctly. Specially for inherriting larger projects for some small adjustments it can be a daunting task. Some months ago a co-worker tried to rebuild a package (FDS) from the OBS. Even without altering a single line: No way! So even those can not be 100% trusted to be used as an base or a working example... It's reading, reading, trying over and over again. however, when/if you got it properly (!!) working in the end, you got a realy good spec file, instead of an quick-and-dirty solution. Building in an chroot environment makes shure that you get reproducable results, instead of using your own environment. hw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

10:31

New subject: [opensuse] Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2008-06-06 at 11:19 +0200, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 03:18:53 +0200 (CEST), Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
Not for you programmers, but it is for us plain users.

O come on! It's mostly the same commands you issue on the command line plus a few lines in the header and you have tons of examples plus the documentation in the opensuse wiki.

You gotta be kiddin! I look at a spec file generated by checkinstall, and I see a few sections like summary or name that are easy enough. But then there is a large list listing every single file and directory that the rpm has to have. Where on earth can I get that huge list? I'm looking at one with 300+ lines of files, one I often build. I have no way to create that! Only the developer of that library knows what needs to be included. Commands I can type, I'm not afraid of typing. But this is a job for a developer, not a user. Even an advanced user. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISRIetTMYHG2NR9URAmeqAKCVtlZufoYY8jOYZ7EWrjj8+CCN3QCfSnVE wVl/3fj2w2HwnfjJMMhcxpk= =Ibc6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

20:21

New subject: [opensuse] Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 12:31:46 +0200 (CEST), Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

But then there is a large list listing every single file and directory that the rpm has to have.

You don't necessarily need such a large list. If you write your own spec file and use a build root (as nearly all packages do), you install into newly created directories and can thus use wildcards such as /usr/bin/* or /usr/share/man/man1/*.gz. Checkinstall can't do that as it installs into the live system.

...

Where on earth can I get that huge list? I'm looking at one with 300+ lines of files, one I often build.

1) Like I wrote above, you don't necessarily need a list naming each individual file. 2) Do it like I often do when creating a new package: let the %files entry be empty as then rpmbuild will list all files that got in- stalled but not packaged.

...

Only the developer of that library knows what needs to be included.

Like I wrote above: let the package install itself and then package that.

...

Commands I can type, I'm not afraid of typing. But this is a job for a developer, not a user.

I tend to differ! Either I know enough of building programs and can deal with the problems that might crop up or I search for prebuilt packages and don't compile at all. Yes, before I started to work at SuSE nearly nine years ago I also installed some packages by 'make install', but back then there wasn't neither build service nor a wiki with documentation. And the package that I didn't package as rpm was glibc, as SuSE back then still used the old libc5. And I concede that I'm biased as I've learned with the years to deal with quite a few pitfalls, but many of the problems only arise when I want to place files somewhere else than where the package wants to install them, for instance because the path doesn't conform with LSB. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

G T Smith

7 Jun 7 Jun

08:12

New subject: [opensuse] Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 12:31:46 +0200 (CEST), Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
But then there is a large list listing every single file and directory that the rpm has to have.

You don't necessarily need such a large list. If you write your own spec file and use a build root (as nearly all packages do), you install into newly created directories and can thus use wildcards such as /usr/bin/* or /usr/share/man/man1/*.gz.

Checkinstall can't do that as it installs into the live system.

<snip>

...

...
Commands I can type, I'm not afraid of typing. But this is a job for a developer, not a user.

I tend to differ! Either I know enough of building programs and can deal with the problems that might crop up or I search for prebuilt packages and don't compile at all.

<snip>

...

Philipp

I think you are missing the point somewhat. What I have used checkinstall for is those scenarios when I have source bundles which are not RPM'd and I would rather like the application to be available to the package management tools on SuSE. I would not use it to create an RPM for third party use (though it might be handy for creating an initial template). I would also prefer not to have to go through the process of hand building a RPM for this purpose. While core RPMs are pretty much up to date, many of those for less well known or non-mainstream applications are not. (The Perl module RPMs are a serious case in point and I now maintain these from CPAN not the SuSE RPMs, others may have similar issue with other things). BTW I am not asking or expecting SuSE to spend time and resources providing some of this but merely to recognise that things like checkinstall help people put together systems the way that they want them, in a way which works with the system tools that they have as part of the distro. - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFISkLTasN0sSnLmgIRArHRAJ4xGQj7ZAELH1miVg8kQyZ5sR7xxQCePT+5 rvIPmwkfoqg1GcClG3Bm28o= =Z6r4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

6 Jun 6 Jun

17:57

New subject: [opensuse] Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 2:19 AM, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 03:18:53 +0200 (CEST), Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
Not for you programmers, but it is for us plain users.

O come on! It's mostly the same commands you issue on the command line plus a few lines in the header and you have tons of examples plus the documentation in the opensuse wiki.

Philipp --

Commands from the command line? Philipp what color is the sun on your planet? Are you even vaguely following this thread? -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

20:35

New subject: [opensuse] Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 10:57:57 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

...

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 2:19 AM, Philipp Thomas wrote: Commands from the command line?

Philipp what color is the sun on your planet? Are you even vaguely following this thread?

Do I miss a smiley there? Otherwise, it's yellow :) And yes, I'll say that dirty word "command line", because things like configure, make or 'make install' have to be typed and not clicked. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

7 Jun 7 Jun

09:26

New subject: [opensuse] Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2008-06-06 at 22:35 +0200, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 10:57:57 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

...
On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 2:19 AM, Philipp Thomas <> wrote: Commands from the command line?

Philipp what color is the sun on your planet? Are you even vaguely following this thread?

Do I miss a smiley there? Otherwise, it's yellow :) And yes, I'll say that dirty word "command line", because things like configure, make or 'make install' have to be typed and not clicked.

That's not the point. I'm not scared of the command line, that's not the problem. The problem is the spec file and associated procedure, that's a skilled job. We use the command line "checkinstall" utility because, even if not perfect, it is very simple. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISlQ7tTMYHG2NR9URAr00AJ9XcLS/ymVtoI/ug5Epw85uL4EagwCgjrlo f1HTZ5a4DvnMjujYEBeupZM= =UOAL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

5 Jun 5 Jun

23:31

New subject: [opensuse] Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2008-06-05 at 22:55 +0200, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

...
This method uses configure > make > checkinstall (instead of make install).

Checkinstall has been dropped from openSUSE because it doesn't work anymore. Checkinstall's trick is to load a library via LD_PRELOAD that redirects all functions dealing with files. Now for installing a package you need to be root and for programs running with root privileges the dynamic loader ignores LD_PRELOAD as this would otherwise be a huge security problem.

So checkinstall has become useless and was therefore dropped.

This is very, very bad news. :-/ What are we supposed to use now? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISHdxtTMYHG2NR9URApnwAJ4z3cseETCCcwH3sKm0nEKw3LEIswCdGkBq 4qk45MaKlRHkxEaJrkHqY94= =S2vL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin

6 Jun 6 Jun

06:40

Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:02:09 -0500, Jim Flanagan wrote:

...
This method uses configure > make > checkinstall (instead of make install).

Checkinstall has been dropped from openSUSE because it doesn't work anymore. Checkinstall's trick is to load a library via LD_PRELOAD that redirects all functions dealing with files. Now for installing a package you need to be root and for programs running with root privileges the dynamic loader ignores LD_PRELOAD as this would otherwise be a huge security problem.

So checkinstall has become useless and was therefore dropped.

Philipp

Yep, I know, I tried to use it and it failed miserably. "make install" still works. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

09:21

New subject: [opensuse] Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2008-06-06 at 01:40 -0500, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

Philipp Thomas wrote: ...

...
Checkinstall has been dropped from openSUSE because it doesn't work anymore. Checkinstall's trick is to load a library via LD_PRELOAD that redirects all functions dealing with files. Now for installing a package you need to be root and for programs running with root privileges the dynamic loader ignores LD_PRELOAD as this would otherwise be a huge security problem.

So checkinstall has become useless and was therefore dropped.

Yep, I know, I tried to use it and it failed miserably. "make install" still works.

Obviously. But this way the rpm database is not informed. You may for instance remove something with Yast because you want to use your own compiled version instead, but as you didn't install an rpm with that name, every time you fire YOU it will want to reinstall the missing rpm :-( Plus dependencies problems galore. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISQGCtTMYHG2NR9URAp+KAJ9PKe3/dtWARuCWZZEy8YXHt3Xd/gCeMlom 37ZdvhoUIRcK43CoTKgDqyk= =eFUW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kai Ponte

13:33

New subject: [opensuse] Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

On Friday 06 June 2008 02:21:04 am Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The Friday 2008-06-06 at 01:40 -0500, David C. Rankin wrote:

...
Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

...
...
Checkinstall has been dropped from openSUSE because it doesn't work anymore. Checkinstall's trick is to load a library via LD_PRELOAD that redirects all functions dealing with files. Now for installing a package you need to be root and for programs running with root privileges the dynamic loader ignores LD_PRELOAD as this would otherwise be a huge security problem.

So checkinstall has become useless and was therefore dropped.

Yep, I know, I tried to use it and it failed miserably. "make install" still works.

Obviously.

But this way the rpm database is not informed.

You may for instance remove something with Yast because you want to use your own compiled version instead, but as you didn't install an rpm with that name, every time you fire YOU it will want to reinstall the missing rpm :-(

Plus dependencies problems galore.

I tend to agree. Now that I've learned about CheckInstall it is all that I use to install items that I've had to compile. Not sure why running a privilage like LD_PRELOAD for the five seconds or so that Checkinstall runs would be a security risk. Anyone care to explain? -- kai www.filesite.org || www.4thedadz.com || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

15:07

New subject: [opensuse] Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2008-06-06 at 06:33 -0700, Kai Ponte wrote:

...

Not sure why running a privilage like LD_PRELOAD for the five seconds or so that Checkinstall runs would be a security risk.

Anyone care to explain?

Five seconds is a world to a cpu. Anyway, I assume it is a global measure, nothing can use that. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISVK5tTMYHG2NR9URAn+bAJ97sxTrUQqpqCxnLw4zHgR3gk2e6gCcCgoO 1DK4ezRckyx+FFPmRP+x2lY= =e/uB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kai Ponte

20:37

New subject: [opensuse] Checkinstall dropped from Opensuse [Was: Compiling the Suse way]

On Friday 06 June 2008 08:07:23 am Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The Friday 2008-06-06 at 06:33 -0700, Kai Ponte wrote:

...
Not sure why running a privilage like LD_PRELOAD for the five seconds or so that Checkinstall runs would be a security risk.

Anyone care to explain?

Five seconds is a world to a cpu. Anyway, I assume it is a global measure, nothing can use that.

that's a bummer i'll have to grab the source so I can build it. -- kai www.filesite.org || www.4thedadz.com || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

09:21

On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 01:40:50 -0500, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

"make install" still works.

Of cause, as it doesn't need the trick. But that renders your rpm database useless. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

16:09

* Philipp Thomas (philipp.thomas2@gmx.net) [20080606 11:22]: To make the story short, I only thought I had dropped it but checkinstall is still present and I'll recheck the bug report that lead me to believe it wouldn't work anymore. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Jaeger

10:33

Philipp Thomas writes:

...

On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:02:09 -0500, Jim Flanagan wrote:

...
This method uses configure > make > checkinstall (instead of make install).

Checkinstall has been dropped from openSUSE because it doesn't work anymore. Checkinstall's trick is to load a library via LD_PRELOAD that redirects all functions dealing with files. Now for installing a package you need to be root and for programs running with root privileges the dynamic loader ignores LD_PRELOAD as this would otherwise be a huge security problem.

The behaviour is: For programs being setuid root, LD_PRELOAD is ignored - or more exactly: /* The LD_PRELOAD environment variable gives list of libraries separated by white space or colons that are loaded before the executable's dependencies and prepended to the global scope list. If the binary is running setuid all elements containing a '/' are ignored since it is insecure. */ Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform/openSUSE, aj@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

Dave Howorth

10:57

Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

Philipp Thomas writes:

...
On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:02:09 -0500, Jim Flanagan wrote:

...
This method uses configure > make > checkinstall (instead of make install). Checkinstall has been dropped from openSUSE because it doesn't work anymore. Checkinstall's trick is to load a library via LD_PRELOAD that redirects all functions dealing with files. Now for installing a package you need to be root and for programs running with root privileges the dynamic loader ignores LD_PRELOAD as this would otherwise be a huge security problem.

The behaviour is: For programs being setuid root, LD_PRELOAD is ignored - or more exactly: /* The LD_PRELOAD environment variable gives list of libraries separated by white space or colons that are loaded before the executable's dependencies and prepended to the global scope list. If the binary is running setuid all elements containing a '/' are ignored since it is insecure. */

Reading this makes me confused. Am I right in thinking that LD_PRELOAD still works and in particular the checkinstall application of it would still work if either: * the checkinstall is run by root directly and the executable is *not* setuid? * or, the special library that checkinstall loads is given using a relative path rather than an absolute one? Either of these seems like a very simple way to make checkinstall work, so I suspect I'm misunderstanding something one of you has said :( Cheers, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Jaeger

11:18

Dave Howorth writes:

...

Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...
Philipp Thomas writes:

...
On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:02:09 -0500, Jim Flanagan wrote:

...
This method uses configure > make > checkinstall (instead of make install). Checkinstall has been dropped from openSUSE because it doesn't work anymore. Checkinstall's trick is to load a library via LD_PRELOAD that redirects all functions dealing with files. Now for installing a package you need to be root and for programs running with root privileges the dynamic loader ignores LD_PRELOAD as this would otherwise be a huge security problem.

The behaviour is: For programs being setuid root, LD_PRELOAD is ignored - or more exactly: /* The LD_PRELOAD environment variable gives list of libraries separated by white space or colons that are loaded before the executable's dependencies and prepended to the global scope list. If the binary is running setuid all elements containing a '/' are ignored since it is insecure. */

Reading this makes me confused. Am I right in thinking that LD_PRELOAD still works and in particular the checkinstall application of it would still work if either:

* the checkinstall is run by root directly and the executable is *not* setuid?

Correct.

...

* or, the special library that checkinstall loads is given using a relative path rather than an absolute one?

No, the library needs to be in a system path, e.g. /usr/lib and LD_PRELOAD contains only the name - not a single slash - in it.

...

Either of these seems like a very simple way to make checkinstall work, so I suspect I'm misunderstanding something one of you has said :(

Note that I have no clue about checkinstall, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform/openSUSE, aj@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

Dave Howorth

11:57

Andreas Jaeger wrote:
> Dave Howorth writes:
>> Andreas Jaeger wrote:
>>> Philipp Thomas writes:
>>>> Checkinstall has been dropped from openSUSE because it doesn't work
>>>> anymore. Checkinstall's trick is to load a library via LD_PRELOAD that
>>>> redirects all functions dealing with files. Now for installing a package
>>>> you need to be root and for programs running with root privileges the
>>>> dynamic loader ignores LD_PRELOAD as this would otherwise be a huge
>>>> security problem.
>>> The behaviour is: For programs being setuid root, LD_PRELOAD is ignored
>>> - or more exactly:
>>>       /* The LD_PRELOAD environment variable gives list of libraries
>>>          separated by white space or colons that are loaded before the
>>>          executable's dependencies and prepended to the global scope
>>>          list.  If the binary is running setuid all elements
>>>          containing a '/' are ignored since it is insecure.  */
>> Reading this makes me confused. Am I right in thinking that LD_PRELOAD
>> still works and in particular the checkinstall application of it would
>> still work if either:
>>
>> * the checkinstall is run by root directly and the executable is *not*
>> setuid?
> 
> Correct.

Looking at the checkinstall site, it seems the program is normally run
as root anyway - as Philipp also implies - so I'm still confused as to
why it has stopped working and therefore been removed?

>> * or, the special library that checkinstall loads is given using a
>> relative path rather than an absolute one?
> 
> No, the library needs to be in a system path, e.g. /usr/lib and
> LD_PRELOAD contains only the name -  not a single slash - in it.

Ah, OK. Now I see I misread your original statement. You wrote
'containing a /' but I saw 'starting with a /' :(  Sorry.

>> Either of these seems like a very simple way to make checkinstall work,
>> so I suspect I'm misunderstanding something one of you has said :(
> 
> Note that I have no clue about checkinstall,

Nor me :)

> Andreas

Thanks, Dave

PS I don't need a personal copy of your replies.
-- 
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Carlos E. R.

12:46

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2008-06-06 at 12:57 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

Looking at the checkinstall site, it seems the program is normally run as root anyway - as Philipp also implies - so I'm still confused as to why it has stopped working and therefore been removed?

Actually, I just checked and it is included in factory (checkinstall-1.6.1-72). I'm very confused now. I'll have to boot factory and test if it works or not.

...

...
Note that I have no clue about checkinstall,

Nor me :)

Nor me, simply that it performs a needed job. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISTHDtTMYHG2NR9URAjmTAJ0RXdkCIDIQCsMN6NUG3clm8g2z7wCeIdf/ y4Txl575Ihu52eNPjmCyZLI= =YGdH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

G T Smith

14:54

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The Friday 2008-06-06 at 12:57 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
Looking at the checkinstall site, it seems the program is normally run as root anyway - as Philipp also implies - so I'm still confused as to why it has stopped working and therefore been removed?

Actually, I just checked and it is included in factory (checkinstall-1.6.1-72).

I'm very confused now. I'll have to boot factory and test if it works or not.

You are probably not the only one that is confused. From what I can workout from both threads involved there seems to be issue with checkinstall and setuid settings which possibly is only a problem if someone is doing something a little odd. Which does not sound like grounds for dropping it. I think what we need to know is whether it is going to be in 11.0 (and if not are there any plans for a replacement) so we can stop chasing our own tails. - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFISU+fasN0sSnLmgIRAkOXAKCbpZa+pYqZtYnfKnhMMGlX1yrI5ACeJFbS B2h7a7M+kBLPaSdupbKDwCg= =geXu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz

13:37

On Friday 06 June 2008 03:33, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

Philipp Thomas writes:

...
On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:02:09 -0500, Jim Flanagan wrote:

...
This method uses configure > make > checkinstall (instead of make install).

Checkinstall has been dropped from openSUSE because it doesn't work anymore. Checkinstall's trick is to load a library via LD_PRELOAD that redirects all functions dealing with files. Now for installing a package you need to be root and for programs running with root privileges the dynamic loader ignores LD_PRELOAD as this would otherwise be a huge security problem.

The behaviour is: For programs being setuid root, LD_PRELOAD is ignored - or more exactly: /* The LD_PRELOAD environment variable gives list of libraries separated by white space or colons that are loaded before the executable's dependencies and prepended to the global scope list. If the binary is running setuid all elements containing a '/' are ignored since it is insecure. */

That suggests that a replacement could be constructed by symlinking from the current directory to the elements of LD_PRELOAD and substituting those local, slash-free symlinks for the names in the original LD_PRELOAD.

...

Andreas

Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Dave Howorth

13:46

Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

That suggests that a replacement could be constructed by symlinking from the current directory to the elements of LD_PRELOAD and substituting those local, slash-free symlinks for the names in the original LD_PRELOAD.

Randall Schulz

Except '.' isn't part of root's PATH Cheers, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz

13:54

On Friday 06 June 2008 06:46, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

Randall R Schulz wrote:

...
That suggests that a replacement could be constructed by symlinking from the current directory to the elements of LD_PRELOAD and substituting those local, slash-free symlinks for the names in the original LD_PRELOAD.

Randall Schulz

Except '.' isn't part of root's PATH

So? Add it. I do. People are too paranoid about silly things like root having dot in PATH.

...

Cheers, Dave

Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

18:34

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

On Friday 06 June 2008 06:46, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
Randall R Schulz wrote:

...
That suggests that a replacement could be constructed by symlinking from the current directory to the elements of LD_PRELOAD and substituting those local, slash-free symlinks for the names in the original LD_PRELOAD.

Randall Schulz

Except '.' isn't part of root's PATH

So? Add it. I do.

People are too paranoid about silly things like root having dot in PATH.

I can never tell when you are kidding Randall. Please tell me you DO understand the risk this entails? -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz

18:42

On Friday 06 June 2008 11:34, John Andersen wrote:

...

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...
On Friday 06 June 2008 06:46, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
...

Except '.' isn't part of root's PATH

So? Add it. I do.

People are too paranoid about silly things like root having dot in PATH.

I can never tell when you are kidding Randall. Please tell me you DO understand the risk this entails?

Someone has to break in to lay any trap that could be sprung by root having dot in its PATH. I don't consider it a big risk for me on my personal-use systems.

...

-- ----------JSA---------

Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

19:33

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

On Friday 06 June 2008 11:34, John Andersen wrote:

...
On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...
On Friday 06 June 2008 06:46, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
...

Except '.' isn't part of root's PATH

So? Add it. I do.

People are too paranoid about silly things like root having dot in PATH.

I can never tell when you are kidding Randall. Please tell me you DO understand the risk this entails?

Someone has to break in to lay any trap that could be sprung by root having dot in its PATH.

I don't consider it a big risk for me on my personal-use systems.

Not on a personal use system, perhaps. But all you have to do is be absent mindedly "cd" into some users directory (as root) working on some administrative task and if your path contains a dot (especially as a leading element) you run that user's version of whatever command you might invoke. I'm not sure if there are any scenarios where this affects tasks run as root from cron etc, but its another thing to consider. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

James Knott

19:55

Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

On Friday 06 June 2008 11:34, John Andersen wrote:

...
On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...
On Friday 06 June 2008 06:46, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
...

Except '.' isn't part of root's PATH So? Add it. I do.

People are too paranoid about silly things like root having dot in PATH. I can never tell when you are kidding Randall. Please tell me you DO understand the risk this entails?

Someone has to break in to lay any trap that could be sprung by root having dot in its PATH.

I don't consider it a big risk for me on my pers%#@$@$!*(*%

NO CARRIER ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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18 participants

participants (18)

Andreas Jaeger
Carlos E. R.
Carlos E. R.
Clayton
Constant Brouerius van Nidek
Dave Howorth
David C. Rankin
G T Smith
Greg Freemyer
Hans Witvliet
James Knott
Jim Flanagan
Joe Morris
John Andersen
Kai Ponte
Philipp Thomas
Philipp Thomas
Randall R Schulz